What's the most Cringeworthy Alternate History you've ever read?

Frankly, I find most dystopia's boring because it's like...you can't come up with a way to make the world better so you default to making things worse? Case in point, there was a thread on AH.com which was literally 'how do you make WW2 worse' or some such.

The most devastating war in human history, that killed coming up on 100 million people, and your first thought is 'imma make it worse'?

Maybe I'm just too much of an idealist at heart. *shrug*

The other thing is that they so rarely think about how they're worse. Like, at most you'll get some higher death tolls, or but usually they're just handwaving in the general direction of "bad things happen, but more this time." Ideally if you want to actually demonstrate how your TL is worse than OTL, you should actually dig into what that means - quality of life, destruction of infrastructure, collapse of democratic norms, you know, what makes it bad?

The whole world being under dictatorships doesn't mean much if you don't really understand what it's like to live under one.
 
Oh and by the way, I won't hear anyone in this thread slander RFK: If He Lived. That TL deserved its Turtledove and you know it.
 
I can't remember your name
Remember or not, you shouldn't insult people like that.

And re.: A CSA victory? Ahahahahaha… yeah, they won't last very long. Slavery like what they practiced isn't economically feasable and the Union will do its damndest to turn the Confederacy into a pariah state.

There was a TL mentioned on… I believe it was TVTropes that had an interesting premise: The South wins, but collapses about a decade later and is reabsorbed into the Union after it offers amnesty for anyone who joins back up.
 
There's the alternate idea that the South trundles along just long enough for cultural splits to reach the point that the US is like 'nope, you made your bed, now lay in it'. They'll be left as a rump failed state, while the North happily gorges itself on wealthier border regions (read: Texas) and goes along its own business.

Which is an interesting scenario itself.
 
Idea for a "modern day" CSA story set in a TL that is a mixture of TL-191, CSA, Bring the Jubilee, Decades of Darkness, Joe Steele, and Draka.

So CSA manages to win, and the US is broken into three: US, Midwest, (Greater) California. This allows CSA to have a freer hand to push south (Golden Circle). However, as time goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to justify the slavery system on economic grounds. At the same time, since there is no real competition from the north, CSA somewhat manages to get by. By the 1930s, this becomes ever more difficult as economic stagnation puts millions of white folks out of work. This is where Jake Featherston comes in with his Fitzhughist-Featherstonist Thought, and institutes industrial slavery by making most of the population into serfs. Thus, we have a slave empire from the Potomac to the Amazon, a brutal DPRK-level totalitarian state.


I wish I had several bodies, just have too many ideas to work with and not enough bodies.
 
The difference is that corporations don't have to deal with any externalities, while a whole planned society does.

And again I don't know if people here ever actually worked for the state.

The state works different on a very fundamental level.

If you think that corporate offices are intrigant cesspools you have never worked in the bureaucracy.

Political considerations influencing fundamental decisions, people mainly being concerned with covering their ass, trying to integrate the ideas of newly elected politicians etc.

Corporations might have more efficient and detailed planning than Gosplan but how they got there is important. Just because something has a similar end result you can't just compare it. How they reached that end result is important.

Frankly, I find most dystopia's boring because it's like...you can't come up with a way to make the world better so you default to making things worse? Case in point, there was a thread on AH.com which was literally 'how do you make WW2 worse' or some such.

The most devastating war in human history, that killed coming up on 100 million people, and your first thought is 'imma make it worse'?

Maybe I'm just too much of an idealist at heart. *shrug*

Depends on the dystopia tbh.

For All Time is boring. Its literally just "the most over the top bad thing always happens".

An interesting dystopia manages to make everthing worse while not ignoring the better side of human nature. A World of Laughter, A World of Tears is really good in that regard imho.

Dystopia's mostly happen because internal or external pressure forces people into surpremely hard positions. Genuine sociopaths like Beria, Stalin, Hitler and Himmler are rare and mostly the product of specific circumstances themselves.

In an interesting dystopia flawed people make flawed decisions in hard situations. Hard situations where the reader probably would make bad choices too. If you really want to watch the world burn, said hard choices create a sociopathic leadership that takes over later.
 
The most cringeworthy alternate history I've ever read is "Rumsfeldia" on AH.com by Drew. It is utterly implausible. Rumsfeld would never have been a totalitarian anarcho-capitalist dictator throwing political opponents into mental asylums. It's predecessor, "Fear, Loathing and Gumbo" is however somewhat plausible. Lesser Mao's Khmer Rouge-esque regime in China could plausibly have existed in real life, unlike Rumsfeld's anarcho-capitalist dictatorship.

"Fear Not the Revolution, Habibi" on AH.com by azander12 is a good and plausible timeline, except for the establishment of an authoritarian regime in Israel led by Yigal Allon. I consider the establishment of an authoritarian regime in Israel implausible at any point in time.
 
The most cringeworthy alternate history I've ever read is "Rumsfeldia" on AH.com by Drew. It is utterly implausible. Rumsfeld would never have been a totalitarian anarcho-capitalist dictator throwing political opponents into mental asylums. It's predecessor, "Fear, Loathing and Gumbo" is however somewhat plausible. Lesser Mao's Khmer Rouge-esque regime in China could plausibly have existed in real life, unlike Rumsfeld's anarcho-capitalist dictatorship.

"Fear Not the Revolution, Habibi" on AH.com by azander12 is a good and plausible timeline, except for the establishment of an authoritarian regime in Israel led by Yigal Allon. I consider the establishment of an authoritarian regime in Israel implausible at any point in time.
If Likud wins this time, its likely to take the first step towards becoming one: making the leader above the law. Never, ever let yourself think that your nation is the exception. "It can't happen here" is the greatest lie in history.
 
Honestly, I've never really found Rumsfeldia to be cringeworthy. Implausible yes, but not cringeworthy IMO.
I'll give you it depends on if you've read Fear, Loathing and Gumbo first to a degree. If you've just read Rumsfeldia it comes off as a right-wing(left-wing?) horror where for some damn reason the Rumsfeld of the Bush era is now in the Rumsfeld of the 80's and ramped up to the 9th degree just to create a dystopia. If you've read Gumbo some of it makes sense but it never was explained really what the fuck happened really with Rumsfeld during the Gumbo era to turn him into that.
 
One thing that doesn't get brought up enough I think in the implausibility of the Golden Circle Confederacy is that there is very little taken into account about the people being invaded. It's like feverishly talking back and forth about the exact degree and precise manner the Nazis are shit to conclude whether or not Barbarossa was ever possible without even mentioning the Soviets except in passing. A lot of South American countries have more pull with European nations then one would think, and allowing for the disruption of frequent civil war and for sometimes shallow supply and industry many have armies at their command as deadly and ferocious as any could ask. Even a Confederacy doing implausibly well for itself still has a significant chance of getting their asses kicked.
 
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Not getting into the fact that if they won odds are any attempt to invade Mexico would drawn in the French against them as well.
 
One thing that doesn't get brought up enough I think in the implausibility of the Golden Circle Confederacy is that there is very little taken into account about the people being invaded. It's like feverishly talking back and forth about the exact degree and precise manner the Nazis are shit to conclude whether or not Barbarossa was ever possible without even mentioning the Soviets except in passing. A lot of South American countries have more pull with European nations then one would think, and allowing for the disruption of frequent civil war and for sometimes shallow supply and industry many have armies at their command as deadly and ferocious as any could ask. Even a Confederacy doing implausibly well for itself still has a significant chance of getting their asses kicked.
Not getting into the fact that if they won odds are any attempt to invade Mexico would drawn in the French against them as well.

The thing most people forget about the original Knights of the Golden Circle was that it was about the United States as a whole expanding south. Just about the only person who seemed to be serious about a seceded South expanding was Robert Barnwell Rhett.
 
I'll give you it depends on if you've read Fear, Loathing and Gumbo first to a degree. If you've just read Rumsfeldia it comes off as a right-wing(left-wing?) horror where for some damn reason the Rumsfeld of the Bush era is now in the Rumsfeld of the 80's and ramped up to the 9th degree just to create a dystopia. If you've read Gumbo some of it makes sense but it never was explained really what the fuck happened really with Rumsfeld during the Gumbo era to turn him into that.
I have always suspected, that Drew wrote Rumsfeldia because he is opposed to Operation Iraqi Freedom. Rumsfeld was the mastermind of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
 
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