What's the most Cringeworthy Alternate History you've ever read?

I have always suspected, that Drew wrote Rumsfeldia because he is opposed to Operation Iraqi Freedom. Rumsfeld was the mastermind of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
It would make sense. It just never made sense as to why the Rumsfeld of 2003 was in the mind of the 80's Rumsfeld. They were basically two different people and it was the later events that shaped him into that Rumsfeld.
 
It would make sense. It just never made sense as to why the Rumsfeld of 2003 was in the mind of the 80's Rumsfeld. They were basically two different people and it was the later events that shaped him into that Rumsfeld.

It wasn't entirely impossible for the accelerated conservative march combined with Rumsfeld going into the corporate world faster might have brought forth an earlier 2003, but it was really stretching a bit.
 
It wasn't entirely impossible for the accelerated conservative march combined with Rumsfeld going into the corporate world faster might have brought forth an earlier 2003, but it was really stretching a bit.
Maybe.... Still a lot of the stuff that made him Rumsfeld 2003 would've been drastically changed and never happened obviously. Part of what made him what he became IIRC was the time spent as special envoy to the Middle East during the 80's and the subsequent fallout in relations between the US and Iraq during the 90's and onward.
 
Maybe.... Still a lot of the stuff that made him Rumsfeld 2003 would've been drastically changed and never happened obviously. Part of what made him what he became IIRC was the time spent as special envoy to the Middle East during the 80's and the subsequent fallout in relations between the US and Iraq during the 90's and onward.

That wouldn't explain the whole "CEO approach" to cost-cutting that castrated the US military and make it a fragile battering ram rather than a all-round military force, which is what 2003 was all about.
 
"Fear Not the Revolution, Habibi" involves Hafez al-Assad being purged by Salah Jadid in 1969, the Jordanian monarchy being overthrown by Black September and an authoritarian regime being established in Israel led by Yigal Allon. In "Fear Not the Revolution, Habibi" Salah Jadid erects a revolutionary socialist pro-Soviet regime in Syria after purging Hafez al-Assad, who was a more moderate socialist than Salah Jadid. I have made a timeline called "Fear not the revolution, heval". The title of this timeline is inspired by "Fear Not the Revolution, Habibi". In my timeline, a pro-Soviet socialist regime is established in an independent Kurdistan in 1948, which causes significant changes to the Israeli War of Independence.
 
Last edited:
That wouldn't explain the whole "CEO approach" to cost-cutting that castrated the US military and make it a fragile battering ram rather than a all-round military force, which is what 2003 was all about.
That was from his prolonged time as CEO of various pharmaceutical companies which yeah that never happened IIRC or at least wasn't long enough to warp his views like OTL.
 
That was from his prolonged time as CEO of various pharmaceutical companies which yeah that never happened IIRC or at least wasn't long enough to warp his views like OTL.
The Rumsfeld of 2003 wasn't similar to the Rumsfeld of Rumsfeldia. Rumsfeld didn't desire an anarcho-capitalist dictatorship in USA in 2003. He only desired to overthrow Saddam. Rumsfeld has never been like the Rumsfeld of Rumsfeldia in real life. (I personally admire Rumsfeld because he was the mastermind of the overthrow of Saddam, the butcher of the Kurds).
 
Any example of a timeline where someone's preffered ideology takes power but it doesn't go so swimmingly for internal reasons? Because it kind of annoys me when TLs go "and x becomes a y nation, and everything is good/shit" I want to see some nuance by their supporters. Because real life is ostensibly a liberal democracy timeline and look where that's going :V. I want some milk toast fascist to be humble and discuss corruption that people to get away with, I want communists to discuss failures of 5 year plans, I want Ancaps to discuss a corporation doing corporation things
 
Any example of a timeline where someone's preffered ideology takes power but it doesn't go so swimmingly for internal reasons? Because it kind of annoys me when TLs go "and x becomes a y nation, and everything is good/shit" I want to see some nuance by their supporters. Because real life is ostensibly a liberal democracy timeline and look where that's going :V. I want some milk toast fascist to be humble and discuss corruption that people to get away with, I want communists to discuss failures of 5 year plans, I want Ancaps to discuss a corporation doing corporation things

Depends, would you consider something like present day Norway's real world political scene as being things not going perfectly from a social-democratic point of view? Because I can tell you that there are real political debates here. Yet if the last century of Norwegian history was to be written as a timeline people might complain that everything goes swimmingly.

My point being where do you draw the line?
 
Depends, would you consider something like present day Norway's real world political scene as being things not going perfectly from a social-democratic point of view? Because I can tell you that there are real political debates here. Yet if the last century of Norwegian history was to be written as a timeline people might complain that everything goes swimmingly.

My point being where do you draw the line?
Not a utopia, and not a dystopia. But to be fair it's hard for a minor nation like Norway to fuck up. Because countries like Norway don't experience runaway military spending or a overbloated military industrial complex
 
The most cringeworthy alternate history I've ever read is "Rumsfeldia" on AH.com by Drew. It is utterly implausible. Rumsfeld would never have been a totalitarian anarcho-capitalist dictator throwing political opponents into mental asylums.
For fuck's sake, the Gumboverse Rumsfeld is NOT OTL Rumsfeld. Gumboverse Rumsfeld lived through a far more chaotic 1970s, which radicalized his views.
 
For fuck's sake, the Gumboverse Rumsfeld is NOT OTL Rumsfeld. Gumboverse Rumsfeld lived through a far more chaotic 1970s, which radicalized his views.
Which as I pointed out makes no sense given how long it took to turn him into the 2003 Rumsfeld that Gumbo has transported back in time. Pretty much everything that turned him OTL didn't happen in Gumbo. Even he was a CEO(been a while since I read the first part) it wasn't long enough to have changed him that damn much. Rumsfedlia is just a right-wing(left-wing?) horror story to fulfill a political agenda.
 
Which as I pointed out makes no sense given how long it took to turn him into the 2003 Rumsfeld that Gumbo has transported back in time. Pretty much everything that turned him OTL didn't happen in Gumbo. Even he was a CEO(been a while since I read the first part) it wasn't long enough to have changed him that damn much. Rumsfedlia is just a right-wing(left-wing?) horror story to fulfill a political agenda.
Gumboverse Rumsfeld isn't even OTL 2003 Rumsfeld. He's r/Libertarian brought to life.
 
For fuck's sake, the Gumboverse Rumsfeld is NOT OTL Rumsfeld. Gumboverse Rumsfeld lived through a far more chaotic 1970s, which radicalized his views.
It's true, that Gumboverse USA went through a more chaotic 1970's than OTL USA did, but in Gumboverse 1980, when Rumsfeld was elected President, the descent into Rumsfeldia was still implausible. A totalitarian regime doesn't arise in a vacuum. The Lesser Mao regime in China is somewhat plausible, because China already had gone through the Cultural Revolution, when Lesser Mao rose to power. He radicalized an already radicalized regime even further. But USA was still an entrenched democracy with strong institutions and checks and balances in Gumboverse 1980, despite USA having went a worse 1970's than in OTL. In Gumboverse 1973, Spiro Agnew, who in Gumboverse was a lunatic right-wing extremist, became President, but was impeached by an unanimous vote of the Supreme Court. Nothing in Gumboverse 1980 suggest, that Rumsfeldia is plausible.
 
It's true, that Gumboverse USA went through a more chaotic 1970's than OTL USA did, but in Gumboverse 1980, when Rumsfeld was elected President, the descent into Rumsfeldia was still implausible. A totalitarian regime doesn't arise in a vacuum. The Lesser Mao regime in China is somewhat plausible, because China already had gone through the Cultural Revolution, when Lesser Mao rose to power. He radicalized an already radicalized regime even further. But USA was still an entrenched democracy with strong institutions and checks and balances in Gumboverse 1980, despite USA having went a worse 1970's than in OTL. In Gumboverse 1973, Spiro Agnew, who in Gumboverse was a lunatic right-wing extremist, became President, but was impeached by an unanimous vote of the Supreme Court. Nothing in Gumboverse 1980 suggest, that Rumsfeldia is plausible.
Rumsfeld was able to get away with shitting on the US Constitution because he had the backing of the big corporations, the "fuck you, got mine" mentality of the American upper and middle classes, and Republican politicians willing to pander to both to further their own careers.
This post by Bookmark1995 sums it up beautifully.
The 1980 election sees the new parties, born from radicalization and economic ruin, come out into the open. WTP, frustrated by an increasingly centrist Democratic Party, runs in an attempt to make themselves heard.

The Republicans nominate Donald Rumsfeld, a former moderate radicalized by the Agnew debacle. Facing him is Hugh Carey, a prominent liberal. Due to third party spoilers, the Dems lose to a man who got less votes then they did.

From 1981-1984, Rumsfeld could be regarded as Agnewesque or Goldwater in his behavior. He embraces economic conservatism, bashes even moderate politicians as socialists, pursues a dangerously belligerent foreign policy, openly shakes the hand of people like Magnus Malan, and ignores any opportunity at detente, and worse of all, scraps America's military alliances.

Normally, a man like this should be vulnerable to defeat in this election, and should not be allowed to do the things he's doing?

Unfortunately, Congress is perfectly willing to go along with anything Rumsfeld wants. Because the Congress is controlled by hyperpartisan Republicans willing to go along with whatever the President wants (snarling about liberal conspiracies), and Democrats who are willing to side with Rumsfeld in a desperate attempt to remain relevant. This is leading to the further radicalization, especially by Libertarians and WTP, the latter increasingly enraged by the more craven conservative Democrats. Of course, it is the WTP that is more damaging.

There is also Hughes Network, which is conditioning people into accepting these unsound policies.

In 1984, the Democrats, hoping to topple Rumsfeld, manage to form a unity ticket between an influential centrist who is a former Republican, and a far-left Democrat. Unfortunately, this does little to quell the far-left, who see little in the McCloskey motto of "I am not Rumsfeld."

This allows the relatively unpopular Rumsfeld to rig the election, but still win despite getting just over 30 percent of the vote, largely with the help of a business community eager to keep its privileges. The Congress, controlled by partisan conservatives, brushes off concerns about voting fraud (possibly as a liberal conspiracy) and hands Rumsfeld the job. Also a majority Republican congress is elected, that is completely unresponsive to the needs of the American people, because of the spoilers.

Not needing even a majority of voters to get elected, and having a Congress and court system that is willing to enable him, Rumsfeld begins pushing an even more dangerous policies, like privatizing social security, and even turning the Pentagon into a mercenary organization. He begins to use the American system of law to both punish his opponents, and strengthen his supporters. Entire public offices, business assets, and properties are being handed off to corporations. Hughes Network gains more power and prestige, and uses it to show out any "socialist subversives," and broadcast Rummy's line Meanwhile, those business leaders and media outlets who are opposed are being subjected to predatory regulation and faulty lawsuits.

Unfortunately, the remaining centrist politicians who ought to be standing up against these horrors are either cowed, being dragged off to mental asylums, or are somewhat supportive of these policies. WTP, frustrated by this perceived cowardice, continues to grow. But this inadvertently feeds into Rummy's plans, as the Dems are further broken apart. And WTP becomes a good boogeyman for Rummy, as Hughes can point to them as a example of what "Democratic Communism" will bring, pushing a moderate middle class into passively accepting Rumsfeldia.

Finally, between 1986-1987, you see a Constitutional Amendment that blatantly expands government power and oppression being passed that pushes many opponents out of the Senate, a blatantly rigged Congressional election that sees Rummy Republicans handed control over Congress, and a secession crisis that gives Rummy the opportunity to eliminate his opponents in the Supreme Court, in favor of his own loyal reactionaries. The international community

But all is not well: several conservative military officials and even Vice President Edwards began to oppose the growing lunacy of the chief executive. They attempt a coup, only to be done in by their own timidity at taking such a dangerous step. This allows the CV to become the sycophants of the President, as this "betrayal" leaves Rummy unable to trust his ostensible allies, including the loyal Cheney. So he picks some random CV person, Jeremiah Denton, to serve as his vice-president.

At what could be the height of his madness, Rummy, secure in his power, begins to push his anarcho-capitalist policies to ridiculous levels. He also launches an invasion of Cuba, that sees a truly fiendish example of American greed: wounded soldiers shot like dying horses.

His ostensible supporters, namely the corporate junta, the CV, and many other Republicans, are fed up with these shenanigans, and anti-climatically push him out the door.
 
Rumsfeld was able to get away with shitting on the US Constitution because he had the backing of the big corporations, the "fuck you, got mine" mentality of the American upper and middle classes, and Republican politicians willing to pander to both to further their own careers.
This post by Bookmark1995 sums it up beautifully.
I know, but I still consider it utterly implausible, even in Gumboverse 1980. The Gumboverse 1970's wasn't that bad for USA, despite being worse than OTL. It is sad, because Gumbo was actually a good and somewhat plausible timeline, despite the Gumboverse 1970's being worse in most of the world than the OTL 1970's. The world of the Gumboverse 1970's is believable, unlike the world of Rumsfeldia.
 
Last edited:
Gumboverse Rumsfeld isn't even OTL 2003 Rumsfeld. He's r/Libertarian brought to life.
Which in no bloody way fits him. Yes the 70s were worse then OTL but nothing that was bad enough to have radicalized him like that. Especially given it took all those years between his first term as Sec of Defense to his second to radicalize him to what he became OTL.
 
Which in no bloody way fits him. Yes the 70s were worse then OTL but nothing that was bad enough to have radicalized him like that. Especially given it took all those years between his first term as Sec of Defense to his second to radicalize him to what he became OTL.
I don't consider him that radical in OTL. He is hated by American leftists solely because he was the mastermind of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
 
I think Rummy gets shit on a bit more then deserved but even I got to acknowledge he was somewhat proto-altright.
It's true, that Rumsfeld is a neoconservative, but he is not a right-wing extremist. I personally dislike neoconservatism, because I oppose spreading democracy by invading other countries, but I admire Rumsfeld for being the mastermind of Operation Iraqi Freedom (Saddam was a monster, who tried to genocide the Kurds). I understand, that opponents of Operation Iraqi Freedom dislike Rumsfeld, but even if you dislike Rumsfeld, the Rumsfeld of Rumsfeldia is over the top.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top