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Warhammer Fantasy: Honor is all, Chivalry is all (Bretonnia CK2)

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Hahnuiat
  • Informational
    • Hahnuiat

    "What can I say? I'm a sword and steak kind of guy."
    - Sikuaq, First Warrior of the Southern Tribe


    (Source)

    The masters of Naggaroth are, undoubtedly, the Dark Elves; their befouling touch is little contested on much of that area.

    But there are-- there are always--humans. Mostly the Hung, foul servants of Chaos; but there others.

    Hahnuiat is the High Elven term for those others.

    A variety of tribes, bound together by common belief in the same spirits of the earth and common opposition to both the Dark Elves and Chaos. For millennia, they have survived dogged attempts by both the foul Druchii and the Hung to see them dead-- oral records suggest they might well have been present even as Malekith and the Dark Elves arrived. Their survival can be attested to by speed-- they're primarily nomadic, traveling from place to place. The only exception to this are small hold-out forts, where large quantities of supplies are held; and the Great City.

    Carved of ice itself, its battlements flash-frozen, its walls protected by thousands of archers and soldiers, and fifty-thousand people make it home, it is a bastion of stability in the dark places where the Hung make their home. Again and again it has repelled attack after attack after attack launched by both Chaotic and Druchii forces, its defenders refuse to lose their cheer, even as they face assault after assault.

    In recent years, aid from the High Elves of Saphery has allowed these tribes to flourish, and reinforce, and launch more and more hunting parties that deny the Hung and Druchii the beasts they need to fill their armies, or slay the foul ones themselves.

    Now, the two spheres of Hahnuiat society alike are experiencing revolution as they learn from the outside world-- guns have allowed them to bring down greater and greater beasts, as has the great number of steel weapons of every, while plate armor has been taken to with a fury; even as the spiritual leaders, the Wisest, speak to the mages of the Empire and the Elves to heighten their own art. It is a Renaissance for them, as they strike the Old Foe.

    To help this process go as smoothly as possible, the son and daughter of the chief of the Great Southern Tribe have been set to travel the world: Sikuaq First Warrior stays in Lothern learning swordsmanship, gunnery, artistry, and all other forms of scholarship on the estate of Thedelel the Artist, speaking with many of the finest minds of the world and crafting ingenious devices of both war and peace; while his sister, Kesuk, studies the magics of the Empire, those of battle and healing alike, even as she writes to both Damsel and priest to learn to control her power.
     
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  • Informational
    • Zrayz10 said:
    So magic Inuits huh? That's new.
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    In case I haven't made it clear enough yet:

    I really fucking hate the whole "only magical Europe and the suspiciously pale non-humans are important to the game, everybody else is either zombies, Chaos worshipers, or primitive savages who everybody else gets to ignore" brainbug that's so dominant in Warhammer, both official and fanwork.

    Seriously.

    Really, really fucking hate it.
     
    Voikirium said:
    In case I haven't made it clear enough yet:

    I really fucking hate the whole "only magical Europe and the suspiciously pale non-humans are important to the game, everybody else is either zombies, Chaos worshipers, or primitive savages who everybody else gets to ignore" brainbug that's so dominant in Warhammer, both official and fanwork.

    Seriously.

    Really, really fucking hate it.
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    *Looks at his tomb king quest where he had to create/steal ten civilizations to avoid interacting solely with skeletons, orcs and lizzardmen *

    Preach it brother!
     
    Voikirium said:
    I really fucking hate the whole "only magical Europe and the suspiciously pale non-humans are important to the game, everybody else is either zombies, Chaos worshipers, or primitive savages who everybody else gets to ignore" brainbug that's so dominant in Warhammer, both official and fanwork.
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    A noble sentiment.

    However it is somewhat marred by the human bias.
    Even in canon there are more than half a dozen fully or semi-fleshed out human civilisations and another several mentioned, not including the chaotic barbarian tribes. Meanwhile the elves have three nations, the dwarves have two (although one is all but lost to canon) and the Halflings barely even have one.
     
    Angelform said:
    A noble sentiment.

    However it is somewhat marred by the human bias.
    Even in canon there are more than half a dozen fully or semi-fleshed out human civilisations and another several mentioned, not including the chaotic barbarian tribes. Meanwhile the elves have three nations, the dwarves have two (although one is all but lost to canon) and the Halflings barely even have one.
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    I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but uh, Dwarfs, Elves, and Halflings are not actual, real people who actually lack representation and who deserve to imagine someone punching Archaon/Malekith/Neferata in the face who looks like them, whereas people who are not White Europeans do exist and do lack representation in fantasy.

    (If it makes you feel any better, I will probably be putting up one of those little snippets for the Dawi Zorn at some point)
     
    >TFW You realize, in your quest to make a serviceable string of syllables to act as the Elven name for a group very similar to one group of Natives, you accidentally gave them a name extremely similar to another group of Natives in an entirely different area.

    If you guys don't mind, I'm gonna edit that real quick to a different name.
     
    The Good Chiefs of Arzhur
  • Informational
    • The Good Chiefs of Arzhur

    "Heavy be the brow that bears the crown, and storms rage in their eye."
    -The Elf Merlin


    (Source)

    Arzhur may be Dux Bellorum, and his duty might be to all the men of Albion; but he can claim to be chief of only one tribe, the Geridmen. The other native tribes of the Isles retain their own lordship, by blood; and by law, any of those tribes might declare themselves independent of the Geridmen at any time, though few would, and none have reason to.

    Thus, under the Dux Bellorum the natives of Albion are ruled over, in practice day-to-day practice, by the chieftains- but they have delegated much of their authority to the High King. He has taken over much of the day-to-day and unglamorous functions of rulership: the construction of roads, the maintenance of an army, the levying of taxes, and left them the maintainence the carrying out of justice, something Arzhur takes quite seriously indeed.

    This taking over of functions has left the chieftains with much time and wealth on their hands.

    And so they have filled it with battle.

    There are two extremes seen in the Albion chieftains when they go to battle: thick plates of hammered steel and skins, worked by artisans of Montfort, Weissenland, or Albion itself; others will go to battle near-nude but for the war-paint and loin-clothe they bear. In either case these flamboyant warriors will clash with the grey steel and red plumes of the professional legions Arzhur more often draws upon; but the High King welcomes them anyway, for they and their retinues alike are terrible warriors to face upon the bogs and the hills of Albion or beyond.

    Aside from the joy of battle, the chieftains also march to war in order to maintain their land-holdings. Some are ancient forts, crafted in the earliest days of Albion; others are mead-halls of gold and oak, tall and proud; others are yet just a farmhouse and a few oversized huts that serve as quarters for the workers. In all of these cases, and any other beside, to lose their ancestral lands would be a great shame to the Chieftains.

    Whatever the case, it is unlikely that the lands of Albion will stop being journeyed on by the wandering Chieftains of the South.
    --
    Here, have a thing. It's subtle but there are a few hints to the differences between Arzhur and the rest of the would-be Arthurs, thematically.
     
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  • Informational
    • Voikirium said:
    I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but uh, Dwarfs, Elves, and Halflings are not actual, real people who actually lack representation and who deserve to imagine someone punching Archaon/Malekith/Neferata in the face who looks like them, whereas people who are not White Europeans do exist and do lack representation in fantasy.
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    …Right. Political correctness in fantasy.

    Several points to make. Firstly is that either no fictional character can be considered an 'actual, real person' or all of them must be. This is not an accurate historical representation of anyone, let alone any extant culture, so claiming they represent the cultures they are vaguely based on is both nonsensical and just as insulting as all the other misrepresentative stereotypes.

    Secondly if you do consider fictional peoples as sufficiently real to deserve politically correct treatment then discriminating between humans and non-humans is the absolute height of racism.

    Thirdly you seemed to have missed the fact that the cultures you claim lack representation have their own fantasies. They have their own legends, their own folk law and anywhere with sufficiently developed industry (admittedly still not common in much of the world) their own modern media. Most famously Bollywood and the vast Anime/Manga industry.

    Warhammer fantasy uses European based cultures because that is the background the creators come from. Unless you are claiming to have spent time integrating with all the cultures you are throwing in (or at the least have studied them in great depth) you aren't qualified to make up politically correct fantasy counterparts for them.

    Ultimately if you are fleshing out the Warhammer world just to be 'representative' then what you are doing is pointless at best and condescending at worst. Flesh it out to make it interesting. Flesh it out so it makes sense. Flesh it out for the simple joy of filling in space on the map! But don't add things just so you can have a token Iñupiat, Ashanti and Polynesian.
     
    Angelform said:
    …Right. Political correctness in fantasy.

    Several points to make. Firstly is that either no fictional character can be considered an 'actual, real person' or all of them must be. This is not an accurate historical representation of anyone, let alone any extant culture, so claiming they represent the cultures they are vaguely based on is both nonsensical and just as insulting as all the other misrepresentative stereotypes.

    Secondly if you do consider fictional peoples as sufficiently real to deserve politically correct treatment then discriminating between humans and non-humans is the absolute height of racism.

    Thirdly you seemed to have missed the fact that the cultures you claim lack representation have their own fantasies. They have their own legends, their own folk law and anywhere with sufficiently developed industry (admittedly still not common in much of the world) their own modern media. Most famously Bollywood and the vast Anime/Manga industry.

    Warhammer fantasy uses European based cultures because that is the background the creators come from. Unless you are claiming to have spent time integrating with all the cultures you are throwing in (or at the least have studied them in great depth) you aren't qualified to make up politically correct fantasy counterparts for them.

    Ultimately if you are fleshing out the Warhammer world just to be 'representative' then what you are doing is pointless at best and condescending at worst. Flesh it out to make it interesting. Flesh it out so it makes sense. Flesh it out for the simple joy of filling in space on the map! But don't add things just so you can have a token Iñupiat, Ashanti and Polynesian.
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    I miss the possibilites of spaghetii posting for long posts like this :(

    Ok let's begin with the fact I don't understand why you mean with the "fictional people part" Indians and Inuits exist and thus can be represented by not-India or not-Inuit just like the Empire is not-Germany and Kislev is not-Russia.

    You can derive pride or embarassment for nations inspired by your own even if they don't match completely. As a Frenchman I was a little fed up with Orlais in Dragon Age Inquisition for that reason (Yes I understand British creators sees us as foopish wine-sippers, we hate you too).

    Second among settings the Warhammer World is one whose map is the closest to Earth which invites some unforturnate implications when you realize things like: There are no Blacks in this world and we never hear about the Asians and isn't it strange the not-Middle East is Orcs.

    Now considering what canon Araby looks like I don't know if GW reluctance is not a blessing in disguise.

    So yes when you fill the map of the Old World the easiest way to do it is to see the location and make a not-place based on the people there. It is what they did with their flagship nations of the Empire, Bretonnia and Kislev.

    Now what you say on how about some of these could be non-human is true. As someone who also fills the map the biggest reason I could give you about not using non-human for representing other cultures is simple. It feels massively like deshumanization especially if you are going to use evil races like the Dark Elves.
     
    ganonso said:
    Now what you say on how about some of these could be non-human is true. As someone who also fills the map the biggest reason I could give you about not using non-human for representing other cultures is simple. It feels massively like deshumanization especially if you are going to use evil races like the Dark Elves.
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    Fair enough, but there's also the wonder of fantasy. To create sapient species that is decidedly not human. It makes for a more interesting world, rather than just going down the list of civilisations, checking boxes. The map being eerily similar to the real world might just be a way to set the climate in the area.
     
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