Remove ads

Vorstallen Magic Preparatory - The Third-Best School for Young Mages in the Nation! Enrol Today!

Reader mode
So @occipitallobe how does make the map works rollwise ? Do we need to pass the full dc to get it done at all or could we reduce it with repeated attemps ? I ask because it even just getting what Henrietta wants has a minimal DC of 95 wich seens unlikely to get at first.
 
For a +55 DC we would get:
[ ] Clay - The least resilient, but also the easiest to make. Ulos is good at crafting clay to begin with. Lowers DC by 10, but the Map is far more breakable.
[ ] Life Detection - The Map detects life - only above a certain size, as to not be overwhelmed by grass, insects, animals, etc. It will pick up lifesigns in its designated area. +20 DC.
[ ] No Motion Detection - Leave it out. Henrietta sees Life and Motion together as redundant and does not want to take both.
[ ] No Illusion Detection - Leave it out.
[ ] 3D Display. A display of lights that becomes a three-dimensional holographic display when detecting something above or below ground level. +10 DC
[ ] Name Features. A keyboard made of lights can store information on each detected entity. Resets when entities walk out of range. +5 DC.
[ ] Persistent name features. Once named, the Map will remember each detected entity forever (unless their life energy is disguised somehow). +15 DC Requires Life Detection, requires Name Features.
[ ] The Dorms, Surrounds, and Classrooms - Still limited, but can protect you in the classrooms you all current go to on a weekly basis. Henrietta's strong preference. + 15 DC.

We have a +20 to crafting if it's Clay so we just need to roll over 35. It has the basics, but it's rather fragile. I'd like to add Illusion detection, but I don't think we can afford it in terms of crafting.

Edit: Technically the roll would be 34, since we did invest a unit of Willpower into carving bricks in Week 5 Weekend, which reduces all our Clay projects by 1.
 
Last edited:
I'd propose this:

[X] Clay - The least resilient, but also the easiest to make. Ulos is good at crafting clay to begin with. Lowers DC by 10, but the Map is far more breakable.
[X] Life Detection - The Map detects life - only above a certain size, as to not be overwhelmed by grass, insects, animals, etc. It will pick up lifesigns in its designated area. +20 DC.
[X] Simple Light Display. Displays lights on the surface of the map. Does not display in 3D. -10 DC. Henrietta thinks this is a little beneath the both of you in terms of design appearance and does not want to take this option.
[X] Name Features. A keyboard made of lights can store information on each detected entity. Resets when entities walk out of range. +5 DC.
[X] Persistent name features. Once named, the Map will remember each detected entity forever (unless their life energy is disguised somehow). +15 DC Requires Life Detection, requires Name Features.
[X] Dynamic Mapping - Will map out any area you carry it to and will maintain detection within a few hundred metres. Massively increases the flexibility and powers of the Map. +40 DC.
[X] Mana Bleed - Mana discharge rate is doubled, but runes that allow Bleed are far, far easier to carve. -10 DC. Henrietta finds the idea of magical bleed as part of the design repugnant, and does not want to take this option.

DC 50 and we get it to work everywhere, which is pretty good. I'm tempted to add the illusion detectionor to use stone or metal but it makes the DC so much higher. The Henrietta DC will be slightly higher (I assume dynamic mapping lowers it) but it's worth it imo. What happens if we fail @occipitallobe, is it broken or do we need to spend another action to finish it?
 
[X] Dynamic Clay Prototype
-[X] Clay - The least resilient, but also the easiest to make. Ulos is good at crafting clay to begin with. Lowers DC by 10, but the Map is far more breakable.
-[X] Life Detection - The Map detects life - only above a certain size, as to not be overwhelmed by grass, insects, animals, etc. It will pick up lifesigns in its designated area. +20 DC.
-[X] 3D Display. A display of lights that becomes a three-dimensional holographic display when detecting something above or below ground level. +10 DC
-[X] Name Features. A keyboard made of lights can store information on each detected entity. Resets when entities walk out of range. +5 DC.
-[X] Dynamic Mapping - Will map out any area you carry it to and will maintain detection within a few hundred metres. Massively increases the flexibility and powers of the Map. +40 DC.
-[X] No Additional Work. No DC change.

If I'm reading it right this plan equals 75 DC, but making it clay lowers it to 45. Dynamic Mapping seems really good, and the kind of thing that might impress people.
 
Sickul said:
[X] Dynamic Clay Prototype
-[X] Clay - The least resilient, but also the easiest to make. Ulos is good at crafting clay to begin with. Lowers DC by 10, but the Map is far more breakable.
-[X] Life Detection - The Map detects life - only above a certain size, as to not be overwhelmed by grass, insects, animals, etc. It will pick up lifesigns in its designated area. +20 DC.
-[X] 3D Display. A display of lights that becomes a three-dimensional holographic display when detecting something above or below ground level. +10 DC
-[X] Name Features. A keyboard made of lights can store information on each detected entity. Resets when entities walk out of range. +5 DC.
-[X] Dynamic Mapping - Will map out any area you carry it to and will maintain detection within a few hundred metres. Massively increases the flexibility and powers of the Map. +40 DC.
-[X] No Additional Work. No DC change.

If I'm reading it right this plan equals 75 DC, but making it clay lowers it to 45. Dynamic Mapping seems really good, and the kind of thing that might impress people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My issue with that would be the fact it does not store information in regards to names. As people enter and leave the area the map does not remember them which would mean we would need to add names every single time. It's basically a life detect item. A useful thing to have, but dwarfed by a map which remembers names and simplifies following life signatures.

While Dynamic mapping is a great option to have, I do think we should limit it to the academy for now due to high DC. Maybe in the 2.0 version we can make it more mobile. Having a ability to detect illusions via items also seems like something which could pay off. Having a bunch of maps for every situation could be worthwhile.


[X] I solemnly swear that I am up to no good
-[X] Clay - The least resilient, but also the easiest to make. Ulos is good at crafting clay to begin with. Lowers DC by 10, but the Map is far more breakable.
-[X] Life Detection - The Map detects life - only above a certain size, as to not be overwhelmed by grass, insects, animals, etc. It will pick up lifesigns in its designated area. +20 DC.
-[X] 3D Display. A display of lights that becomes a three-dimensional holographic display when detecting something above or below ground level. +10 DC
-[X] Name Features. A keyboard made of lights can store information on each detected entity. Resets when entities walk out of range. +5 DC.
-[X] Persistent name features. Once named, the Map will remember each detected entity forever (unless their life energy is disguised somehow). +15 DC Requires Life Detection, requires Name Features.
-[X] The Dorms, Surrounds, and Classrooms - Still limited, but can protect you in the classrooms you all current go to on a weekly basis. Henrietta's strong preference. + 15 DC.
-[X] No Additional Work. No DC change.

DC should be 35 (34).
 
Zaratustra said:
So @occipitallobe how does make the map works rollwise ? Do we need to pass the full dc to get it done at all or could we reduce it with repeated attemps ? I ask because it even just getting what Henrietta wants has a minimal DC of 95 wich seens unlikely to get at first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You'll need to pass the full DC to get it done at all. The Map is multiple runes that interact - screw one up and you're back to Step 1. So in practice a 35 DC is very close to a certain pass (approx 1.17 Actions to complete the map if the initial roll fails), a 100 DC is on average 5 Actions to complete the map if the roll after the design turn fails.

A 120 DC... well, you get the idea.
 
[X] Plan METAL Marauder's Map
-[X] Metal - Requires etching metal. Henrietta has some experience in metal runecraft. Henrietta's preference. Increases DC by 20, but the Map is close to invincible.
-[X] Life Detection - The Map detects life - only above a certain size, as to not be overwhelmed by grass, insects, animals, etc. It will pick up lifesigns in its designated area. +20 DC.
-[X] 3D Display. A display of lights that becomes a three-dimensional holographic display when detecting something above or below ground level. +10 DC
-[X] Name Features. A keyboard made of lights can store information on each detected entity. Resets when entities walk out of range. +5 DC.
-[X] Persistent name features. Once named, the Map will remember each detected entity forever (unless their life energy is disguised somehow). +15 DC Requires Life Detection, requires Name Features.
-[X] The Dorms, Surrounds, and Classrooms - Still limited, but can protect you in the classrooms you all current go to on a weekly basis. Henrietta's strong preference. +15 DC.
-[X] No Additional Work. No DC change.

At first I tought the clay map would be good enought for now, since we needed a map soon and it being fragile just means needing to replace when it inevitably breaks sonner or later with use or enemy action, but them I remenbered that runes are material dependente.

It is important to keep in mind the runes we would use to carve a map like this on clay are completely diferent from the one we would use on rock or metal, so while making on metal from start is harder, around effective dc60 at worst, it is still doable I belive worth it not only for survivality but also because we prepare for the future, a map is always usefull and sonner or later we will want to improve the map further, and the better the map the more worthy of being in metal so it won't fail us at the first impact, and be starting on metal we can keep improving this one effectively forever instead of having to start from scratch at some point, and I think that is worth is being harder to make.
 
[X] Plan METAL Marauder's Map

Better to risk having to spend another action to complete it now than to risk it being destroyed in the future and not be free to recreate it, or even have it be destroyed multiple times because we chose the weakest material.
 
Waffle said:
You might want to add a bleed effect, it shouldn't be an issue
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It is actualy a double inssue, Henrieta finds it repugnant so it would be a bigger malus to the social roll and even with friends we can only maintain so much runework at once.

Beyond that can someone elaborate why getting the Map done now is worth making a more dispossable design instead of one we can keep improving on ? Or are people ok with the map always being of easily breakable clay ?
 
Zaratustra said:
Beyond that can someone elaborate why getting the Map done now is worth making a more dispossable design instead of one we can keep improving on ? Or are people ok with the map always being of easily breakable clay ?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Clay isn't really easily breakable. You would need to drop it and apply some force to break it. One could argue it's basically more durable (and unwieldy) paper

It also has a DC of 35 (34) on a d100 to craft, while the metal map has a DC of 65-70. Considering that the more the we roll over the limit of crafting, the more goodies we get in terms of skills (or additions to the map) by keeping the DC low, while having the basics down.

If we want to improve, we might as well start from scratch, and that should be applied for both the metal map and the clay map. It's basically pseudo-artifact tier already and I imagine that the DC will be much higher for possible improvements (if that is even possible).

Sure the map is vulnerable from enemy actions, but if they get their hands on the map, it being destroyed is the least of our worries. It is a tool which can be used against us if it comes to that.

I do also question the ability of stone/metal on how mobile they are. Both of those materials are pretty dense.
 
Last edited:
Raron said:
Clay isn't really easily breakable. You would need to drop it and apply some force to break it. One could argue it's basically more durable (and unwieldy) paper

It also has a DC of 35 (34) on a d100 to craft, while the metal map has a DC of 65-70. Considering that the more the we roll over the limit of crafting, the more goodies we get in terms of skills (or additions to the map) by keeping the DC low, while having the basics down.

If we want to improve, we might as well start from scratch, and that should be applied for both the metal map and the clay map. It's basically pseudo-artifact tier already and I imagine that the DC will be much higher for possible improvements (if that is even possible).

Sure the map is vulnerable from enemy actions, but if they get their hands on the map, it being destroyed is the least of our worries. It is a tool which can be used against us if it comes to that.

I do also question the ability of stone/metal on how mobile they are. Both of those materials are pretty dense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Okay first kind proving my point, the clay map is the only one with a reasonable chance of being broke acidentaly, while the other two would need at least direct effort, there is a reason fragility was explicity stated as the dowside, and we shouldn't ignore it.

Were did you get that a higher roll would give benefits depending on how higher the roll is from the dc ? Based on brickworks we need crits for extras.

Not realy, consider that the map is made of a colection of runes, runes being rarely improved means we are very likely to improve on the runes as we make the map, making then stronger or easier to make, if we build on what is already there we can just add more runes and keep iterating, if we start from scratch we are back to basic runes.

Fair, honestly that is a point in favor of clay since we can probably add a self destruct option.

What you have to remenber is that the stronger the material the less of it we need to make sure the map is strong enough, we aren't something the exact same size no mater the material, quite the oposite I believe clay will be the most curbersome since it will have to be bigger and in the other extreme metal would be the most portable, since it can be thin a flexible enought to roll into a tube.
 
Zaratustra said:
Okay first kind proving my point, the clay map is the only one with a reasonable chance of being broke acidentaly, while the other two would need at least direct effort, there is a reason fragility was explicity stated as the dowside, and we shouldn't ignore it.

Were did you get that a higher roll would give benefits depending on how higher the roll is from the dc ? Based on brickworks we need crits for extras.

Not realy, consider that the map is made of a colection of runes, runes being rarely improved means we are very likely to improve on the runes as we make the map, making then stronger or easier to make, if we build on what is already there we can just add more runes and keep iterating, if we start from scratch we are back to basic runes.

Fair, honestly that is a point in favor of clay since we can probably add a self destruct option.

What you have to remenber is that the stronger the material the less of it we need to make sure the map is strong enough, we aren't something the exact same size no mater the material, quite the oposite I believe clay will be the most curbersome since it will have to be bigger and in the other extreme metal would be the most portable, since it can be thin a flexible enought to roll into a tube.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well yes, the first one is proving the point that metal is sturdier. It's also proving the point that clay is not inherently fragile. Unless it's enemy action, it's not going to break.

Higher rolls do give better benefits according to how many steps of success you have over the DC. Notice the roll 3. You don't need to crit to get a upgrade on a item, and while I'm not expecting something amazing, it is statistically far more likely that you get a functionality upgrade on a clay map then on a metal one.

On the subject of future improvement of the map, we are actually unsure if it's possible to upgrade already existing runic items. As in, we have literal 0 knowledge of it both in and out of setting as far as I know. Once a item is done we don't know if we can modify it. And if it is possible we can construct a metal map then, with better tools and more Runes:Crafting skill. A action now has a far bigger worth then a action in a theoretical future. As such it is in our interest to craft this map as soon as possible.

In general when you construct a electronic item you need to make it a certain size so it has hardware to run. As such, both metal and clay need to have a sufficient "bulk" to function. Now as far as we know, runes for clay and metal are different so "bulk" may vary, but assuming they take the same volume metal is going to be far heavier. Assuming that the map is roughly the size of a tablet, that is one heavy metal map. It's a rather light clay tablet in that case.

So in conclusion, lower DC translates into unknown upgrades and faster crafting at cost of durability. Considering it's a non-combat item I don't predict that being a issue.
 
Last edited:
Even just putting the clay map in a metal-and-glass case padded with cloth would do wonders for its durability.
 
occipitallobe said:
Threaten Thomas - Bargain? With this piece of crap? No, Ulos does not negotiate with terrorists.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
occipitallobe said:
No, fuck him."

"Ulos?"

"So, what. If we talk to him, he gets away free because Abraham got baited into hitting him? No. We screw him over, he screws us over. First, I'll go get everything from his cupboard that looks useful. We'll start making the points from there. We don't make up a lie, or something stupid. We fight this... this..."

"I understand. You know you'll be starting a war with him, don't you?"

"I know. Are you with me?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh damn, Ulos isn't one to play, but when he does, he plays for keeps.
 
Raron said:
Well yes, the first one is proving the point that metal is sturdier. It's also proving the point that clay is not inherently fragile. Unless it's enemy action, it's not going to break.

Higher rolls do give better benefits according to how many steps of success you have over the DC. Notice the roll 3. You don't need to crit to get a upgrade on a item, and while I'm not expecting something amazing, it is statistically far more likely that you get a functionality upgrade on a clay map then on a metal one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I would note on this that breaking the entire map is less worrisome than, say, a crack or damage enough to screw up a rune. If the clay map gets hit hard enough to ruin a single rune on it, your map is kaput. This is less of a worry for bricks that are legitimately single-use and single-rune.

Admittedly, it's all tradeoffs. A clay map is far more vulnerable to minor damage, but it's also much cheaper and easier to make.

The second thing I'd note is that while higher rolls do give better benefits (usually in increments of 20), none of those benefits are anywhere as good as increasing the map DC by 20. Illusion detection is the sort of thing you might see if you had a 20 DC map and got a result of ~120.

While you guys are discussing (as clay vs metal is very close), I'll advocate for some less loved options. This doesn't mean I think these are necessarily good choices - I just like to push the quest in the direction of whatever's unpopular at all times.

(1) Mana Bleed for clay maps. If you're making something more disposable, why bother making it particularly good? You can trade Mana Bleed and 10 DC for Illusion Detection, and Illusion Detection is genuinely good. Illusions are low-level magics (relatively) and being able to sense them is a major strategic advantage.

(2) Simple light display for Metal Maps. It's worth 20 DC vs 3D, and lets you either lower the DC or tack on another neat feature.

(3) Stone. Clay is roughly -30, Stone is roughly -15, and Metal is roughly 0 in terms of DC changes (once differences in skill are taken into account). It's a nice midpoint between Clay and Metal, but a resilient stone is going to be a nice midpoint in terms of durability. If you're trading DC for durability but can't quite afford everything you want, stone is a nice DC reducer without losing too much durability.
 
occipitallobe said:
wasn't sure. Damnit, he wasn't sure. Each choice seemed equally good. For a moment he thought of simply keeping the Amulet and trading later, but he knew it was a point of vulnerability. You didn't keep the stuff you'd stolen, you fenced it for something that couldn't be traced back to you. Even he knew that much. If Thomas turned up his hiding place, he could maybe expel Ulos. Punish him badly, at the very least.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This makes me wonder: why the hell are we keeping the bone Wand around, instead of cashing it out?
 
occipitallobe said:
"Sorry about this all. I keep comparing you to Edward - your talent in theory isn't that far below his, but I forget that you lack his talent in other matters."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You know, every few updates there's this "I will show them, I will show them all!" moment such that I can't help but see how mages kind of hate each other if this is normal behavior.

Also, I don't know if Sadulk showed that mind magic is way, way better than it seemed, or confirmed the initial description that it's something only useful to bully muggles and super noob mages with.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top