Arise ye who walk even in death, we got news about Bloodlines 2.
Oh hey, news about the game once more. Wasn't expecting the very concept to get shaken up - kinda liked the idea of beginning as a newbie vamp - but certainly this new direction sounds neat too. Wonder why the game is having such a rocky development history, though?
 
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Hearing this has likewise made me do a 180 on how excited I am for this game, after my initial apprehension on hearing about the *3rd* studio being assigned the project.

That's such a killer way to introduce a player character who a) is a PC and thus murders people by the dozens as part of the tutorial, who b) knows jack squat about wtf is happening in 2020's vamp society

One of the things I liked about the thinblood iteration was that, as your character was just some person that was going to be reflected in the character creation with extensive options that included stuff like past work status and so on. Some of that will likely be lost with this approach. However I do think that you can do a lot with the 'awoken elder' approach and it will make the player's significance quite believable. Curious to see how that might turn out in practice ... notwithstanding everything else that's going on with development lol
 
One of the things I liked about the thinblood iteration was that, as your character was just some person that was going to be reflected in the character creation with extensive options that included stuff like past work status and so on. Some of that will likely be lost with this approach. However I do think that you can do a lot with the 'awoken elder' approach and it will make the player's significance quite believable. Curious to see how that might turn out in practice ... notwithstanding everything else that's going on with development lol
lol, yeah.

Fingers crossed for the rest of this cursed production, but the idea does seem cool in its own way
 
I only saw the trailer before checking this thread, and from the trailer alone I had the impression that 'newly awoken elder' was going to be plot the player-character was up against, not your backstory. Wild.
 
I think the idea of playing an awoken elder is interesting, I like the whole "person out of time" trope personally, most of the vampire games have you playing freshly or recently embraced vampires. Big turn about from what the game was originally about (I mean, this is a completely different project from whatever was announced before) but hard to tell if it'll be decent or not yet ig.
 
I got around to reading the PC Gamer article and one line immediately jumped out to me. And not in a good way.

"You have enough that you can fill in the character a bit as you go and roleplay, but they're also an established thing that you understand as aspirational."

It astounds me that we're in the year when BG3 can an enormous success with a completely customizable protagonist and they seem to think that a Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines game needs a PC who is "aspirational". What? This isn't Mass Effect, what made Bloodlines 1 so beloved was the replayability. Which included the wide range of characters you can choose from. There is no balance here, the focus should be on customization and replayability. That they don't seem to agree frankly shows that they have very little understanding of what made the Bloodlines such as a gem.

There is too little information to declare it doomed but this is not an encouraging statement to hear from the people who will be making the game. I don't mind deviations from the formula (the elder change is very interesting) but this is not a good attitude to have.
 
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I got around to reading the PC Gamer article and one line immediately jumped out to me. And not in a good way.

"You have enough that you can fill in the character a bit as you go and roleplay, but they're also an established thing that you understand as aspirational."

It astounds me that we're in the year when BG3 can an enormous success with a completely customizable protagonist and they seem to think that a Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines game needs a PC who is "aspirational". What? This isn't Mass Effect, what made Bloodlines 1 so beloved was the replayability. Which included the wide range of characters you can choose from. There is no balance here, the focus should be on customization and replayability. That they don't seem to agree frankly shows that they have very little understanding of what made the Bloodlines such as a gem.

There is too little information to declare it doomed but this is not an encouraging statement to hear from the people who will be making the game. I don't mind deviations from the formula (the elder change is very interesting) but this is not a good attitude to have.

I think that goes pretty much hand in hand with the elder change. Sure, it's a completely different formula, but I think it could be good for them if the previous attempt was struggling with recreating the original formula. I think this makes it much easier to write a compelling and personal story.
 
I think that goes pretty much hand in hand with the elder change. Sure, it's a completely different formula, but I think it could be good for them if the previous attempt was struggling with recreating the original formula. I think this makes it much easier to write a compelling and personal story.
I see your point, however if it's easier for them then that just means that Paradox chose the wrong replacement. For the type of RPG that Bloodlines was customization was a crucial part of what made it great. If they're trying to make a sequel to it then they presumably should be devs who can at least approximate that same strength.

Otherwise why bother calling it Bloodlines 2? Now obviously I know why it's called BL2, that's the game that's being made. But that just goes back to my point. If they can't make that kind of game then they have no business making this one.
 
...awoken Elder could be interesting, depending on when they went into torpor, but I have a sinking feeling that it's going to lean more to Christof Romuald.

Way I figure this is going to go one of four ways :
  1. Redemption. As in the other VtM PC game. The one that's utter garbage, breaks lore over its knee with gleeful abandon and is probably the worst VtM media in existence including the TV show. Well, considering it's NWoD I wouldn't be able to tell nor care if I could, I suppose.
  2. Duke Nukem Forever. A fraught, to say the least, massively extended dev cycle of a semi-hot property in the hands of a questionable developer by order of a questionable publisher ? This has all the makings of becoming the next DNF, a 5/10 super mid experience too pleased with itself.
  3. Invisible War. Has there EVER been a good ImSim sequel ? Thief 2 and System Shock 2 I suppose. Do the people making this understand why Bloodlines is good enough to have a modding scene that updates patches as recently as *checks notes* June this year ? Probably not, but one might hope against adversity.
  4. Armored Core 6. Against all odds a worthy successor based on a deep understanding of what makes Bloodlines so good.
 
I think even if this game is good it's going to be another beast altogether from VTMB1. That's not a bad thing necessarily, just depends on the execution.
 
That's not a bad thing necessarily
It's a pretty bad thing if it calls itself 'Bloodlines 2'.

Like... a VtM game doesn't have to be Bloodlines, or rather an ImSim, to be good. There's tons of ways you could do it; you could do it like HBS Shadowrun, or more like Baldurs Gate, lean on Sugarcube style graphical text adventures, or even something XCOMish.

What you should not do is pretend that that game is a successor to Vampire the Masquerade : Bloodlines.
 
It's a pretty bad thing if it calls itself 'Bloodlines 2'.

Like... a VtM game doesn't have to be Bloodlines, or rather an ImSim, to be good. There's tons of ways you could do it; you could do it like HBS Shadowrun, or more like Baldurs Gate, lean on Sugarcube style graphical text adventures, or even something XCOMish.

What you should not do is pretend that that game is a successor to Vampire the Masquerade : Bloodlines.
Personally I'm a lot less bothered by whether a game is a true spiritual successor to previous entries in the franchise versus just general quality. Something like Baldur's Gate 3 shows that a game can have very little to do with it's predecessors and still be a knock out. This stuff just happens to capitalize on successful IP. If it's good, I'll enjoy it.
 
Personally I'm a lot less bothered by whether a game is a true spiritual successor to previous entries in the franchise versus just general quality. Something like Baldur's Gate 3 shows that a game can have very little to do with it's predecessors and still be a knock out. This stuff just happens to capitalize on successful IP. If it's good, I'll enjoy it.
The problem with this comparison is that BG3 is still the same type of game as its predecessors. It has major differences of course but it's still an isometric RPG with a focus on roleplaying and writing quality. The essence is the same. Even if the execution isn't.

A better example would be if BG3 was actually a tactics game with zero customization, dialogue options, or any other standard RPG feature. That would be something that would rightfully enrage essentially everyone.
 
The problem with this comparison is that BG3 is still the same type of game as its predecessors. It has major differences of course but it's still an isometric RPG with a focus on roleplaying and writing quality. The essence is the same. Even if the execution isn't.

A better example would be if BG3 was actually a tactics game with zero customization, dialogue options, or any other standard RPG feature. That would be something that would rightfully enrage essentially everyone.
Oh, well if it's not an RPG that would be weird, but the RPG genre is a big spectrum between like ARPG and CRPG type games. I'd def be a little confused if it wasn't even an RPG (though even judging by the scant info we have rn it will be some form of RPG)
 
This whole rework is a total loss of confidence from me. The Chinese Room has no experience in anything other than walking simulators. If they were just brought on as technical finishing touches on a content complete game that had severe technical difficulties, I could give it the benefit of the doubt, but this total rework of the story down to the basic main character pitch smells like a weird AA game equivalent of an asset flip. The publisher is basically assigning their cheapest hands to try to make the best of sunk costs and get this out the door to at least recoup a little investment.

Being an awakened Elder could be a decent enough pitch on its own for giving the player Protagonist Energy--like the common fanon that the first game's fledgeling was being boosted by Caine or the original sequel build of being officially allowed to diablerize people and thus join a Clan as a mid-game reward--but it absolutely implies a more limited backstory and options, where they're cutting off "blank slate-ness" to push the player to act a certain way.
 
Crazy theory here, but maybe Paradox looked at Swansong (which I really enjoyed) and decided to go that route.
The Chinese Room has no experience in anything other than walking simulators.
The funny thing though, as someone else pointed out, is that the entire staff of The Chinese Room were fired and only replaced a considerable time later; so its anybody's guess what experience the individual developers have (besides the games the studio has developed since).
 
Okay, I'm really curious about the state of the original demo because I feel like them shifting gears to an empowered starting characters has implications.

Maybe the OG had a framework for character powers, but not for a progression system so they have to work with what they got. Or maybe it was partially built? But too broken to feasibly balance a game around?

It seems like a change based on pragmatism. But I'm actually really interested in the idea of a Bloodlines with a super streamlined RPG component. The original game wasn't really carried by the depth of the mechanics, more by the story and immersive sim elements. Making it more like Dishonored where you unlock powers combined with brutal vampire action sounds like a winning combo to me.

I also like the idea because one of the highlights of any vampire work is conflict between powerful asshole vampires and factions. But in the original game it's a long time before you can start playing heel with Sebastian LaCroix. Starting the player off on more equal footing would come closer to fulfilling my dreams of Bitchy Vampire Drama Simulator.

Press F to pay respects if a Malkavian playthrough would be a casualty of this approach. But hey I'll put a bet on it just out of newly kindled optimism.
 
Crazy theory here, but maybe Paradox looked at Swansong (which I really enjoyed) and decided to go that route.

The funny thing though, as someone else pointed out, is that the entire staff of The Chinese Room were fired and only replaced a considerable time later; so its anybody's guess what experience the individual developers have (besides the games the studio has developed since).
Would it be too clinical to say "less experience"? I bet they fired them to replace them with less experienced (and cheaper) workers fresh out of a university program.
 
Would it be too clinical to say "less experience"? I bet they fired them to replace them with less experienced (and cheaper) workers fresh out of a university program.
From Wikipedia:
In late July 2017, The Chinese Room's directors, Dan Pinchbeck and Jessica Curry, laid off the entire staff—at that point eight people—and ditched their Brighton office for home. They cited the lack of ability to pay their staff during the interim between projects as the reason for the closure, and expressed their intentions that the studio itself was still running without the development team, with Pinchbeck and Curry working on prototyping and acquiring funds on their own time. The company released a VR title, So Let Us Melt, for Google Daydream in September, which was the final project of the former studio. At the time, Pinchbeck, Curry, and Andrew Crawshaw were working alone on the studio's next project, 13th Interior, which was to push away from the "walking simulator" model the studio had been known for.[10]

In August 2018, Sumo Group, the parent company of Sumo Digital, acquired The Chinese Room for £2.2 million, making it the fourth UK-based studio under Sumo Digital. Co-founder Pinchbeck took the role of creative director for The Chinese Room, while Curry continued as an independent composer for the studio. Pinchbeck described the acquisition as "the end of a chapter" for the studio as they determined their next project.[11] From late summer 2018, The Chinese Room began re-staffing, adding veteran developers Ed Daly as studio director and John McCormack as art director.
 
  1. Redemption. As in the other VtM PC game. The one that's utter garbage, breaks lore over its knee with gleeful abandon and is probably the worst VtM media in existence including the TV show. Well, considering it's NWoD I wouldn't be able to tell nor care if I could, I suppose.
Little confused by this statement.
Redemption, the tv show, and Bloodlines2 are all CWoD.
 

View: https://youtu.be/uwXf5nMa-UI?si=Jtc5DATeaGBe3mZE

They've released some post-alpha footage and information regarding the player character.

Our elder character is named Phyre and is hunting for information regarding a mysterious symbol carved into their hand. They have the voice of a thin-blood named Fabian in their head.

I'm not sure how much customization there is for our character. It looks like you can customize appearance somewhat at least. EDIT: I rewatched the video and they say you can customize appearance and gender.

I think the voice of Fabian in your head implies that either you diablerized him or he diablerized you and you took over his body.

Apparently Phyre is not meant to be some YA trendy name but is actually a gender neutral Armenian name. The protagonist's accent is also supposed to be Armenian. This is according to comments I read on the video but have not been able to confirm if this is true. Can anyone confirm/debunk this?
 
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Okay so the protagonist is definately a Capital-v VAMPIRE, no more playing some random American who happens to turn into a vampire, it's the big leagues now.

I'm intrigued about the mains reputation as the Slayer. My current assumption is that Fabian or someone he knew is the Slayer, who was involved in whatever happened in Cairo. Which I'm presuming was an attempt to wake up and diablerize an ancient vampire that went very very wrong and now the elder is out in the wild using Fabian's and/or the Slayer's body as a suit. I wonder if we're going to pick up any more passengers over the course of the game.

It's a lot more complex than most other RPG protagonist backstories I've seen. Not even the Nameless One had voices in his head. Very interesting.
 
I am very much Not A Fan of having a mostly pre-defined character who is voiced, that is not meaningfully different from Mass Effect or some other Bioware RPG. VTM Bloodlines was great for (amongst other things) its immersive potential. The ability to select your favored protagonist and essentially have a blank slate to project onto. This completely undermines that.

Even if voiced PCs wasn't a genuinely bad idea for most RPGs (it very much is) this would still dismay me. I knew they weren't interested in following what made the original great but this is practically in-name only at this point.
 
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