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Under the Open Sky (CWMGQ Spinoff)

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Hmm, is there going to be a time where we're secure enough to start saving for Pioneer?

Also, is the Merit shop still in play?Because I can see Summit being buried underneath a pile of Merit after this battle.
 
Okay, I've seen Instant Manufacture and I have to wonder - do we get to improve it further, for example by matching its speed to our Diamond Mind? And what happens if we try to use it in concert with Manufacture proper?

On a slightly different note do we get updates to ability ladders for level 45 and above?

On a more different note, when does To Defy The Gods activate when engaging in Intercept Conflict with Starlancer (or another Punch-Through Legend)?
-Does it lower their initial damage in Intercept conflict?
-if yes, does it also lower the punch-through damage that goes to us?
-independently of the above, does it activate when their post-Intercept damage string is written up?
-and if it's a yes to all of the above, does it effectively lower the punch-through damage by a factor of 9?

On a side note current Anna with Crush, Rain of Blows, Double Hit and at least one Laser invested will one-shot Starlancer as she was in our last battle. Even discounting TDTG, if it lowers the initial damage. Her damage total is 26400 vs 6600 max of intercept will have Starlancer soak 19800 damage on at most 1690 Damage Reduction... With Polaris Armor 50% it's still 9055 damage vs 8000 health. Anna herself will, if TDTG triggers only late, soak 2200 on 1640, and let through 560*0.4=224 damage. Owch, that stings. Not.

Did we ever get confirmation Crush multiplies post-intercept damage (procs twice on victory)?
 
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FatedBread said:
Also, is the Merit shop still in play? Because I can see Summit being buried underneath a pile of Merit after this battle.
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I think you've broken a hundred by now. Which is why the mechanic is changing.
Faraway-R said:
Okay, I've seen Instant Manufacture and I have to wonder - do we get to improve it further, for example by matching its speed to our Diamond Mind? And what happens if we try to use it in concert with Manufacture proper?
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Not planned, but attack speed has an effect on how fast you can make things when in a hurry. No additional effect when combined with typical Manufacture.

Faraway-R said:
On a slightly different note do we get updates to ability ladders for level 45 and above?
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Again, I wasn't planning on it. Tier IV and above Abilities are intended to take some real effort to get a hold of, not getting placed out like breadcrumbs.

(Don't you think you can cause enough trouble without spitting out Echoing, Obliterating, Unstoppable, Apocalyptic attacks?)

Faraway-R said:
On a more different note, when does To Defy The Gods activate when engaging in Intercept Conflict with Starlancer
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It applies after the Intercept conflict. So the damage high-existence effects can hit you with is reduced, but it doesn't get easier to push them aside. It makes Summit tougher in a potent way, it doesn't make her stronger or cause her opponents to become weaker.

As for Crush, it takes a multi-handed swing to trigger. Once the Intercept conflict is over that damage is applied as unblockable damage to the loser. Since the system doesn't use more than one hand to apply this damage it isn't trebled. :V Nice and straightforward, barring odd Ability interactions.
 
kelllogo said:
Again, I wasn't planning on it. Tier IV and above Abilities are intended to take some real effort to get a hold of, not getting placed out like breadcrumbs.

(Don't you think you can cause enough trouble without spitting out Echoing, Obliterating, Unstoppable, Apocalyptic attacks?)
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I was mostly hoping for bullet hell, personally. It's weird that slash hell is on the list and it isn't. Or smash, if only because it's likely to be very useful.

Something like this:

Forge of Battle
Panoply lvl 45: Smash 90xp

The Need for Dakka
Panoply lvl 45: Bullet Hell 90xp

Shedding Blood
Panoply lvl 45: Critical Strike 90xp
Alternatively: Murder

Rising Flames
Panoply lvl 45: Melt 90xp
Alternatively: disintegrate

Pillar of Industry
Panoply lvl 45: Cleave 90xp
Alternatively: ?????

IDK about cleave, and not sure I've ever actually seen melt in action, but this is about what I was expecting it to be.
 
kelllogo said:
I think you've broken a hundred by now. Which is why the mechanic is changing.
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What's the rough breakdown on how Summit earned all that merit? Like, what proportion of the merit did she get from killing the Darkstar elites, saving Floral Glory, repairing the brandcraft barriers, fighting Massy, etc.

Mellithae said:
I was mostly hoping for bullet hell, personally. It's weird that slash hell is on the list and it isn't. Or smash, if only because it's likely to be very useful
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Danmaku (which we have), translates into English as bullet hell.
 
kelllogo said:
Ability Ladder Purchase! Instant Manufature

Substantially faster production speed (x10). Allows manufacturing of useful items (barricades, booby-traps, tunnels, helicopters) in minutes.
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So, for repairing tanks, does this mean that we can now split a manufacturing action into 10, and say, disassemble 3 tanks and do 7 repair actions in one block?
 
kelllogo said:
As for Crush, it takes a multi-handed swing to trigger. Once the Intercept conflict is over that damage is applied as unblockable damage to the loser. Since the system doesn't use more than one hand to apply this damage it isn't trebled. :V Nice and straightforward, barring odd Ability interactions.
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Uh, no? Intercept damage should still have Crush applied if Crush applied during the initial conflict?
justinkal said:
Not necessarily odd ones.
Should be relatively simple to make the post-Intercept part still be two handed with a simple Crush | Cleave.

You attack, they hold up their weapon to try and stop you, and you just plow right through their weapon and continue your initial swing.
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Like, this is how a lost melee intercept looks normally. The weapon being destroyed is a bonus.
 
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LostDeviljho said:
Uh, no? Intercept damage should still have Crush applied if Crush applied during the initial conflict?

Like, this is how a lost melee intercept looks normally. The weapon being destroyed is a bonus.
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IIRC, Gore said otherwise when we were talking about how damage dealt explodes upwards when you combine a Multiplier with Intercept :V


Also, if you only barely win a melee Intercept without Cleave, would it be less of that and more pushing back their own weapon so it smacks them in the face?
 
LostDeviljho said:
gonna need you to point me to that, because I don't recall it and it contradicts my understanding of the mechanic.
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Never mind, I was mixing up Gore being confused about my math on Discord and Kelll saying this on SV in response to my math.
kelllogo said:
Crush needs a two handed swing to apply. Which means there's a good chance to not proc at all if you're intercepting an attack and no chance to proc when the intercept string resolves (barring wacky Ability interactions).
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Yeah, if Crush applied in the conflict itself, it'll apply when dealing the damage, barring ability/soft mechanics weirdness. It's not like you suddenly stop two-handing your weapon when you win the conflict, after all. That would be dumb.
 
LostDeviljho said:
Yeah, if Crush applied in the conflict itself, it'll apply when dealing the damage, barring ability/soft mechanics weirdness. It's not like you suddenly stop two-handing your weapon when you win the conflict, after all. That would be dumb.
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Consider the following:

Thing 1 with a 1000 damage crush weapon is swinging at Thing 2 that also has 1000 damage, 1000 Health, and 4000 resilience.

First attack by Thing 1 glances off because of resilience, 0 damage. On the next attack Thing 2 intercepts, loses, and dies because crush applied twice.

Where's the reason for that? It's not like a surge of strength from the X Strength abilities. What if the attack had collateral damage and moved to killy levels because someone next to them intercepted and made the damage balloon? Where is the power coming from?
 
it's stuff like that that makes intercept so risky, if you lose you just buffed a strong attack. Which I understand my be counter to the systems intentions, I don't think intercept is supposed to be risky beyond the chance of flat failing.
 
kelllogo said:
Consider the following:

Thing 1 with a 1000 damage crush weapon is swinging at Thing 2 that also has 1000 damage, 1000 Health, and 4000 resilience.

First attack by Thing 1 glances off because of resilience, 0 damage. On the next attack Thing 2 intercepts, loses, and dies because crush applied twice.

Where's the reason for that? It's not like a surge of strength from the X Strength abilities. What if the attack had collateral damage and moved to killy levels because someone next to them intercepted and made the damage balloon? Where is the power coming from?
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They blocked really poorly?

Look man, multipliers apply through both stages of an intercept so long as their activation conditions stay met. And in the case of Crush they would stay met, barring ability fuckery or a very weird narrative description for how the Intercept played out.
 
LostDeviljho said:
They blocked really poorly?

Look man, multipliers apply through both stages of an intercept so long as their activation conditions stay met. And in the case of Crush they would stay met, barring ability fuckery or a very weird narrative description for how the Intercept played out.
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Would "you just barely lose the Intercept and get bonked in the head with your own sword as a result" count as "a very weird narrative description for how the Intercept played out"?
 
justinkal said:
Would "you just barely lose the Intercept and get bonked in the head with your own sword as a result" count as "a very weird narrative description for how the Intercept played out"?
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I guess? but I'd think that would really key off your damage since it's your weapon, and if you lost...
 
LostDeviljho said:
I guess? but I'd think that would really key off your damage since it's your weapon, and if you lost...
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Well, I meant like the swords collide, causing theirs to miss and yours to get pushed back towards you.

Its the first thing that came to mind for "the two swords collide, yours doesn't break, but you still get hit". Them pushing your own sword back at you.
 
justinkal said:
Well, I meant like the swords collide, causing theirs to miss and yours to get pushed back towards you.

Its the first thing that came to mind for "the two swords collide, yours doesn't break, but you still get hit". Them pushing your own sword back at you.
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You know those anime scenes where two guys lock sword and push back and forth? Now imagine one of them gives and their guard collapses, and they take the hit while they're vulnerable and can't defend further. That's what an Intercept is.

This:
justinkal said:
Well, I meant like the swords collide, causing theirs to miss and yours to get pushed back towards you.
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Sounds more like the result of... idk, someone with an ability that makes you hit yourself if you negate their attacks. It's not... absolutely impossible to have an intercept play out like that on the soft/narrative level, but it's very atypical.
 
So the Crush should also be proccing twice on Intercept, LDj? OK.

That said, once the topic came up I always considered MG-borne weapons with Crush to have it not just as a use two hands option, but as also magically enforced. As in, MG's own magic or existence reaffirms the damage multiplication on hit, and it technically hits twice in the same swing - once on the enemy's attack, and once on the enemy themselves as it blows through their guard. At least that's how I figured out TTTGFTH was actualized.

Random Fun Fact: Baseball Bat probably has Intercept and Crush as abilities. :D

On a different note, rereading is the gift that keeps on giving. Here's a couple of examples:
1) I rediscovered that when Furies tried to shackle down Summit (their spell causes Curse, Blind and Stun), Summit ignored the Stun effect. "If you have to drag your limp body along with your Panoply it is what you shall do." (Crossworlds 10 - The Furies). Which is another reason why I thought HFS Spiders weren't a threat with their Stun, actually. EDIT: Ceaseless Warrior states that "Stuns and mental effects do not restrict Summit's actions."

2) I found that Machine Code left us a letter (Crossworlds 11). To wit: Magical Girl Machine Code thanked you for your efforts and recommended (demanded) that your time would be better spent on building wunderwaffen instead of repairing tanks. She added a map showing the two points where a towed Anti-Demon Tank would get stuck with suggestions for how to terraform or construct a lift at those spots.

Yes, that means I will probably be suggesting a write-in for when we next have to go to work. Probably this:
-1 - Send a message to Commander Black, inform him that you will complete the repairs of the tanks for minimal roster of 40 combat-capable ones.
-2 - Continuing the message, you are intending to streamline the path so that towed Anti-Demon Tanks could pass without problems, and are looking for someone to check that your path modifications will work.
-3 - Continuing the message, you are asking for a clarification of orders. Do you continue to repair the tanks afterwards, do you switch to making Hovertanks like you can (provide short list of pros and cons), or do you stop and let the tanks be towed to be replaced using the path you made.
 
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LostDeviljho said:
They blocked really poorly?

Look man, multipliers apply through both stages of an intercept so long as their activation conditions stay met. And in the case of Crush they would stay met, barring ability fuckery or a very weird narrative description for how the Intercept played out.
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I'll try to sum up my issue with this.

If two otherwise equal combatants fight and one intercepts a Crush-enhanced blow they get hit for twice the damage as just letting it through ((3x-x)*3 = 6x). And this will always happen if Crush activates. Poor blocking can only take you so far...

It seems nonsensical to let this happen from both a narrative and mechanical standpoint to me, so I've reasoned that the big swing gives you extra oomph on the conflict, but typically won't trigger again. Crush doesn't have the feel of spiteful magic or vast reserves of power that would justify thumping victims with that much extra damage, it always seemed like making an extra heavy attack. This, to me, avoids making things worse for peers that try intercepting and also avoids gamy bullshit like intercepting a weak attacker nearby to get a stronger shockwave. So Crush and Smash just don't trigger twice in these circumstances.

Speaking of Intercepts... did you ever decide what would happen if Solar Radiance was fighting a temporal doppelganger and intercepted her double's attack? Do you get a fearful symmetry situation where everything is mirrored and blocked or do both get pasted because Unstoppable?
(And another thing, Solar Radiance has Judgement on her weapon with Unstoppable. Judgement is never going to do anything...)

EDIT: @Faraway-R, check the Ceaseless Warrior ability.
 
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