Under the Open Sky (CWMGQ Spinoff)

As for the XP issue... the problem is that rank and file demons are totally ineffective against Summit. You fly, ignore most bonuses an army could give, and wouldn't take damage from drowning in the blood of your enemies (Serene In Adversity). I'm willing to reward battle, but don't want to encourage acting like a lawnmower of lesser demons over other tactics.
Eeehhh, well, when the assault on the Messenger platforms happened, Nep got the XP for every Soul Reaver that got owned by those who were there. So I kinda feel like this is ignoring a bunch of precedent from the main quest. At that point even, Nep was already in the same position as Summit is in now. Sufficiently powerful enough that demons up to Class-3 simply aren't threats any more.

At the moment, I think there are two ways to 'solve' the issue. Or at least suppress the 'acting like a lawnmower over other tactics' bit. 1.) Make the XP scale semi-logarithmic so it gives diminishing returns. So perhaps 100 demons gives 100 XP, but 1000 demons only gives 500 XP. 2000 demons would be something like 800 XP. You'd have to play with a spreadsheet to try to get something you like, but that's one option. 2.) Make going after low level demons a trade-off. Sure we could get gobs of XP, but then it'd take longer to fulfill our objective. Which in turn would cause the Light extra casualties or expending more resources to make up for dallying. Or perhaps getting bogged down in demons results in a rather nasty complication. This option is pretty much entirely GM discretion to the hilt.

Hmm, and since the main quest is going to come up across this problem shortly, @crystalwatcher, got anything to say on the topic?

:V I'm wondering if there's some meta-reasoning for not diving in. Summit's instincts are letting her know she won't face anything more powerful than herself.
I'm with Mauve here. Though mostly for the fact that diving in without telling your team leader what you're planning is always a bad idea. I'd rather tell them about what we're up against and let her act on the information than go in half-cocked. Or rather, seemingly half-cocked. Appearances do matter. While we know Summit will be fine, what would Blue Bandit and Floral Glory think when they haven't seen her in action?

[X] Point out where you think the Shadow Generator is located.
[x] Ask why we are not just killing everything, but otherwise follow blue's lead, she seems to know what she's doing.
 
Eeehhh, well, when the assault on the Messenger platforms happened, Nep got the XP for every Soul Reaver that got owned by those who were there. So I kinda feel like this is ignoring a bunch of precedent from the main quest. At that point even, Nep was already in the same position as Summit is in now. Sufficiently powerful enough that demons up to Class-3 simply aren't threats any more.
Keep in mind that Divinity causes it to be much easier for Nepgear to gain EXP than it is for regular MGs.
 
Keep in mind that Divinity causes it to be much easier for Nepgear to gain EXP than it is for regular MGs.
I know that crystal said that in the main quest thread, but I always found it to be kinda odd. Lower tier growth affinities gain less in stats per level invested in a skill or spell, so why make this more complicated by reducing the amount of XP they get regardless? Wouldn't it just be easier to balance things around stat growth instead? Then it'd only be one thing to worry about. Not two.
 
I know that crystal said that in the main quest thread, but I always found it to be kinda odd. Lower tier growth affinities gain less in stats per level invested in a skill or spell, so why make this more complicated by reducing the amount of XP they get regardless? Wouldn't it just be easier to balance things around stat growth instead? Then it'd only be one thing to worry about. Not two.
I think that EXP gain is classified only as "Normal", "Divinity", and "controlled by Abilities" (MGs like Lunar Radiance).

The easier EXP for Divinity is part of the exponential growth rate.
 
oh wait, I just realized why blue isn't just having us kill them all.
"Damn. I was hoping it was a couple of critters trying to melt a new tunnel. They've got a shadow generator set up, it hides the real beasties and those shadows can actually hurt us. This is going to take hours."

she can't see though the shadow cover they have like we can. she's not having us roll them up because she doesn't know what they have. We can see through the blind they set up, so it's likely she will just point us at them and say "kill" once we tell her what's behind it. She might not though, again hidden reserves or other strategic concerns may be in play.

[x] Tell blue what you can see, including the shadow generators approximate location and the enemy force composition.
[x] mention that we can probably kill everything we saw by ourselves, but follow blues lead since she seems to know what she's doing.
 
Hmm, and since the main quest is going to come up across this problem shortly, @crystalwatcher, got anything to say on the topic?
I'm intending on instituting a hard-cap for the amount of lawnmower EXP that you can get for taking said action. Otherwise Carnage could just bum-rush a demon horde and have her own power spiral way out of control. Seriously, she's built to be a lawnmower. So a hard cap on EXP from demon kills depending on the Class.

Such as Class 1 demons capping out at 1,000
Class 2 at 2,000
Class 3 at 3,000 so on so forth.

Note though that this isn't solid and is subject to revision in the near-future.

Keep in mind that Divinity causes it to be much easier for Nepgear to gain EXP than it is for regular MGs.

I know that crystal said that in the main quest thread, but I always found it to be kinda odd. Lower tier growth affinities gain less in stats per level invested in a skill or spell, so why make this more complicated by reducing the amount of XP they get regardless? Wouldn't it just be easier to balance things around stat growth instead? Then it'd only be one thing to worry about. Not two.

I think that EXP gain is classified only as "Normal", "Divinity", and "controlled by Abilities" (MGs like Lunar Radiance).

The easier EXP for Divinity is part of the exponential growth rate.
This entire dissonance was caused by a mis-communication the first time it came up.

All Magical Girls gain experience at roughly the same rate. But what is different between them all is that higher "growth" rates grow faster because they grow by larger chunks, not because they get more EXP.

The amount of EXP Nepgear got from all those Soul Reavers was shared between her as well as all the other Magical Girls present. As well as a few other characters.

The miscommunication that lead to the whole "higher growth rates get more exp" is because the higher girls can kill more and stronger demons, leading to a faster accumulation of EXP that would otherwise be available.

More power -> faster growth -> stronger faster -> more kills -> more exp

It's a brutal cycle. If a Story Maker Magical Girl followed a Legend Magical Girl around and managed to stay alive, she'd "grow" faster than other Story Makers simply because she's getting more EXP faster than other girls of similar growth rates since the Legend MG being around allows her to survive situations she realistically shouldn't be able to.

EXP growth for everyone is the same linear path. The trick is that not all Girls can grow strong enough fast enough to kill hordes of enemies all in one go.
 
It's a brutal cycle. If a Story Maker Magical Girl followed a Legend Magical Girl around and managed to stay alive, she'd "grow" faster than other Story Makers simply because she's getting more EXP faster than other girls of similar growth rates since the Legend MG being around allows her to survive situations she realistically shouldn't be able to.
There is actually in-story examples of this in action. Namely the Counter Force's "Apprenticeship program".

They stick a newbie girl with a veteran means that newbie can get more exposure to high-level threats with minimal danger to them, giving them a chance to get a good start on growing stronger. Meaning that Magical Girls under the CF's direct leadership have a better chance of "growing" faster than independent girls. Since Magical Girls no matter their power level are pretty much indispensable.
 
I'm intending on instituting a hard-cap for the amount of lawnmower EXP that you can get for taking said action. Otherwise Carnage could just bum-rush a demon horde and have her own power spiral way out of control. Seriously, she's built to be a lawnmower. So a hard cap on EXP from demon kills depending on the Class.

Such as Class 1 demons capping out at 1,000
Class 2 at 2,000
Class 3 at 3,000 so on so forth.

Note though that this isn't solid and is subject to revision in the near-future.
didn't we rework her sheet near entirely to adjust for that though?
 
I remember reworking her sheet to live up to her "army killer" status, but nothing about the amount of EXP she gets out of doing the lawnmower thing.
As I recall it went roughly like:
Kellogo: Exp isn't by kill
Me: Yeah it is?
K: If it was than shouldn't Carnage be way stronger than she is because she lawnmowers everything?
Me: Uhhh... Crys get in here!
You: Huh? What? Oh! To the PM-cave!
*a few hours later*
You: Okay Carnage is now as strong as she should be for how much Exp she should have. *wipes sweat from brow*
 
... True.

Still think I should put a hard cap in before someone's (Nepgear's) power levels spin into absurdity.
probably. That would probably result in a notable drop in exp gains though, considering where we've been getting our big amounts *coughsoulreaverscough*, how would we explain that away IC?
 
probably. That would probably result in a notable drop in exp gains though, considering where we've been getting our big amounts *coughsoulreaverscough*, how would we explain that away IC?
Simple enough.

She's grown so strong that the lesser demons don't feel as much of a threat to her any more. Thus, she doesn't get as much of a drive to improve her self when facing off against them. This work?
 
Simple enough.

She's grown so strong that the lesser demons don't feel as much of a threat to her any more. Thus, she doesn't get as much of a drive to improve her self when facing off against them. This work?
That... *nods* yeah that works.


Incidentally, I dread the day I launch parallel and have to pull a balancing act between "Hello yes I am an Epic magical girl and all your soldiers are dead" and "so why hasn't Nep heard of these people yet?"
 
Simple enough.

She's grown so strong that the lesser demons don't feel as much of a threat to her any more. Thus, she doesn't get as much of a drive to improve her self when facing off against them. This work?
I was just gonna say that you could just leave it unexplained IC and then explain it OOC. After all, Team Gear doesn't know everything that we, the players, know about the setting and its mechanics. Hell, we don't know everything.
 
That... *nods* yeah that works.


Incidentally, I dread the day I launch parallel and have to pull a balancing act between "Hello yes I am an Epic magical girl and all your soldiers are dead" and "so why hasn't Nep heard of these people yet?"
Nep might be semi-aware of them but not really think about them (considering she's more or less stuck hanging around top-10 girls her entire career), or they could simply do the Saitama thing.

You know.

Show up, slaughter everything involved, then run off before anyone has a chance to ask questions.
 
It's kinda late for that bro. Do think about it though. I'd prefer a soft cap of diminishing returns, but that's just me.
From where I'm sitting there's not much difference between diminishing returns and a hard cap. Anything that Summit can kill quick enough to reach the cap is going to be worth no xp after the first threshold ("round to least convenient number").

For a quick example, if Summit killed 535 Demonic Footsoldiers, 77 Ground Commanders, and 13 Hell Beasts (Hell Beasts take a while for Summit to kill, but bear with me) she'd earn either:
Hard cap: 50 from the Footsoldiers (max of 50), 250 from the Commanders (max of 50), and 130 from the Hell Beasts. 430 EXP.
Soft cap: 50 from the Footsoldiers (first 50 give full (one xp), next 50 give half that (zero), next 50 give half of zero...), 304 from the Commanders (first 50 give full (five xp), next fifty give half that (two), if there was a next 50 each would be worth one.) and 130 from the Hell Beasts. 484 EXP.
No cap: 535 from the Footsoldiers, 385 from the Commanders, 130 from the Hell Beasts. 1050 EXP.

The hard cap is quite similar in effect to the soft cap in terms of reduced EXP (59% vs 54%), and doesn't mangle the EXP numbers. Any reduction is going to quickly drop the marginal EXP to zero for the enemies that hit the the cap in the first place. No cap annoys me, in this scenario Summit probably did some daring feat to bomb a gathering of Commanders and their mounts, but when the EXP is added up almost half would come from the dudes you shot up while leaving.
 
No cap annoys me, in this scenario Summit probably did some daring feat to bomb a gathering of Commanders and their mounts, but when the EXP is added up almost half would come from the dudes you shot up while leaving.
I mean, it's not like there's not precedent for that.
*looks at soul reavers*
 
From where I'm sitting there's not much difference between diminishing returns and a hard cap. Anything that Summit can kill quick enough to reach the cap is going to be worth no xp after the first threshold ("round to least convenient number").
One major difference: The amount of math our poor GM has to do. Diminishing returns are inconvenient that way.

Personally I'd just aggregate the challenge offered by weak foes(relatively, how much effort and risk involved in fighting them) and give a one off XP payoff that way.
 
Since voting seems to have died down, have a

Tally
:

veekie, ltmauve, Decim

[X] Point out where you think the Shadow Generator is located.
[x] ask why we are not just killing everything, but otherwise follow blue's lead, she seems to know what she's doing.


kitsune9

[X] Point out where you think the Shadow Generator is located.

random_npc

[x] Tell blue what you can see, including the shadow generators approximate location and the enemy force composition.
[x] mention that we can probably kill everything we saw by ourselves, but follow blues lead since she seems to know what she's doing.


Fun fact, charging in would have allowed you to steal the shadow generator. Assuming you could quickly defeat the Shadow of Summit it spawned, that is. Now Blue Bandit is just going to call in an artillery strike on its location. No mirror match for you!
 
Crossworlds 4.2
"There-aren't-actually-that-many-of-them. If…." You rattle off before catching yourself.

"I didn't quite catch that. Land there." Blue Bandit pointed at an outcropping.
**Charge.
You descend at the directed spot, trying to put your thoughts in order. Said thoughts remain stubbornly disordered, flickering between likely reactions of the demons and how to best destroy them.
**Drive them into the stream then fly over them to bunch them up.
There were people you were assisting, and all the outcomes that presented themselves weren't taking them into account.

Touching down you release your passengers. Blue crouchs behind a taller piece of cover while Floral sits and grips at where you had been holding her during the flight.

"Next time could you be less grabby?"

"Floral."

"Ugh. Thanks for saving me a climb. Could you please be less grabby in the future." Floral Glory amended.

"Grabby?" You ask.

"The bit where you grabbed my waist and between my legs with your… stuff. It was-"

"She's just making sure we don't fall. It's basically a climbing harness." Blue interjected.

"Easy for you to say, your outfit has pants." Floral shot back, ending with a note of annoyance.

Looking over Blue Bandit's outfit does not bring pants to mind, even if there is a belt. And that jolts you into remembering what you needed to tell her.

"I know where the shadow generator is." You say.

The other two stop glaring at each other and turn to you.

"Putting aside how Floral would prefer bridal carry-"

"Hey!"

"-show me."

You point towards the Darkness infused area.

"Seems like a likely spot. Just behind the lighter colored boulder?"

"Uh, no. It's just a bit down from there."

"So closer to midway between the fallen tree and the lighter colored boulder?"

"Wrong way… I think I meant towards us instead of downslope." You answer after glancing through the flickering shadows covering the valley.

"Towards us, okay," Blue held her thumb out for a moment before continuing, "is it just a bit downslope from that line of darker stones?"

"Yes. I think it would be ten meters away from those to the center of the area."

Blue nods and holds her thumb at arm's length and starts muttering to herself about altitude.

"I also counted the enemies. There are less than 100 demons and I'm confident that I could kill all of them myself." You add.

Blue holds up her left hand in a stop gesture, then takes out a notepad and writes down a few things.

"You don't want to do that. They probably have musket troops trained for coordinated shots, and the generator can conjure your shadow if you get close. Well, it can if it's one of the fancy ones, but there's no way of knowing that until it happens. Could you handle fighting yourself and shadows of all those demons at the same time?"

"Which is why you're calling in artillery to blow it up." Floral said from where she was resting on the ground, arms pillowing her head.

"You should check for it first."

"Why? If it's wrong it's Summit's fault, not mine."

Blue Bandit pinched her forehead before shaking her head softly.

"Summit? How certain are you that I have the right spot?" She asks, emphasizing her question with a pointed finger.

"Fairly certain. It's the only bit that looks like an illusion that isn't just a patch of shadow."

"And how can you tell?"

"I can tell what kind of magic something has if I can see it. Everywhere else has Darkness and Chaos just on the shadows, but that bit of land has Darkness everywhere."

"This let you see critters that have different elements? That's how you got your count earlier?"

"That's right."

"I understand. I'll call in some shells to hit the generator. Once it's down you fly to the other end of the enemy forces, Floral will attack from here, and I'll provide support from where I can get the best view."

"Sounds good. I like the part where I don't need to crawl anywhere, all your plans should be like this."

You nod.

Blue fished out her radio and and started talking into it.

"14th Artillery, this is ICETHORN. Requesting fire mission."

"ICETHORN, this is 14th Artillery. Patching you to E11A. Over."

"E11A, this is ICETHORN, adjust fire, over."

"ICETHORN, this is E11A, adjust fire, over."

"Grid EV101 40 70, over."

Blue Bandit continued talking with ever more arcane numbers and abbreviations entirely replacing words.

Floral Glory pantomimed holding a radio like Blue, "look at me. I am a real soldier now."

Blue shot a withering look at Floral before finishing a call and response on her radio. "Splash, out," she shifted the radio away from her mouth and gestured at the area you had pointed out as the Darkness infused area. "Look."

A dull thud echoed from over the mountains, followed shortly by a much louder explosion. Before you the shadows dissipate revealing a small crater where the Darkness element had been strongest, and exposing the demons.

"E11A, this is ICETHORN, end mission, bullseye, out," Blue smoothly replaced the radio in a pocket and unstrapped her rifle, "get 'em!"

You shoot into the air. There are four groups to target, each led by a single commander. Three of them have a pair of the larger critters holding large shovels and a handful of foot soldiers. The last group has the musket-equipped demons, their commander holds a black intricate device instead of an axe. You angle to land amid the last group.

Blue fires a shot that hits one of the larger demons in the back, it explodes in sparks and gore. Floral Glory runs downhill with astounding speed. And then you are flying into a volley of shots from the muskets of the demons below you.

(75% chance to lose attack due to high speed * 24 demon musket soldiers.

6 attacks remain.

Demon Musket: 200 Base Damage, +4 Dice, +100 Explosive Shot, -50 Hard to Aim = 254 Total Damage

Magical Girl Summit: 680 Base Resilience, +38 Reactive Field, +33 Dice, +340 Faster Combatant, -136 Charging into Gunfire = 955 Damage Reduction
Attack Neutralized.

*Insert five more futile attacks here*

0 End Damage)


You burst through unharmed striking the Commander with all the skill and subtle effect of a freight train. His armor crumples with the blow and his body flies lifelessly away. The rest are dealt with in a spray of shots before they can react. Orange beams erupt from the Panoply's barrels, leaving none of the musket demons alive.

(Panoply: 1040 Base Damage, +92 Dice, +520 Ramming Speed!, +104 Death From Above = 1756 Total Damage

Demon Commander: 100 Base Resilience, +10 Dice, -50 Deer in Headlights = 60 Damage Reduction

1696 End Damage

Demon Commander Health: 1500 - 1696 = -196 Remaining

Full-Auto Panoply: 1040 Base Damage, +157 Dice, +208 Full Auto, +208 Full Auto, +208 Full Auto, +208 Full Auto, +208 Full Auto = 2237 Total Damage

Demon Soldier (x24): 50 Base Resilience, +1 Dice, -10 In the Open = 41 Damage Reduction

2196 End Damage

Demon Soldier Health (x24): 750 - 2196 = -1446 Remaining)


Taking stock of the situation again you see that the remaining groups have started running away from Floral Glory. Another shot from Blue Bandit sends the head of a Commander flying away, it doesn't appear to make a difference to the others retreat.

You're tempted to start with the group nearest to Floral and clear them all out yourself, but suppress it for being a foolish idea. Shifting takes you further away from her and lets you quickly assault the most distant group of demons.

You take to the air once more and shift the Panoply to charge for a larger attack. As you fly overhead you discharge a shot into the far group's Commander, the whole valley lighting up in your orange color.

(Laser used Twice! Attacks per Turn 4 -> 2 -> 1!

Burst Panoply: 1040 Base Damage, +82 Dice, +1040 Laser, +1040 Laser = 3202 Total Damage

Demon Commander: 100 Base Resilience, +17 Dice, +50 Total Defensive Action = 167 Damage Reduction

3035 End Damage

Demon Commander Health: 1500 - 3035 = -1535 Remaining)


The unfortunate demon is hit square in the chest despite an effort to juke to the side. Your attack pierces clean through his armor and flesh, leaving a steaming hole clean through.

The remaining demons had been frantically running towards something, with your last attack this stops as the run every which way in a panicked attempt to get away from you. Looping around for another pass you take aim at one of the larger demons.

(Laser used Twice! Attacks per Turn 4 -> 2 -> 1!

Burst Panoply: 1040 Base Damage, +220 Dice, +1040 Laser, +1040 Laser = 3340 Total Damage

Least Behemoth: 500 Base Resilience, +9 Dice, -50 Poor Reflexes = 459 Damage Reduction

2881 End Damage

50% Resistant to Missiles

1441 Final End Damage

Least Behemoth Health: 4000 - 1441 = 2559 Remaining)


Results are disappointing. You hit the left side of it's hip, but it only stumbles slightly before resuming its loping stride once more. It's much tougher than you had anticipated after seeing Blue Bandit drop one in a single shot.

As if on cue, one of the beasts closer to Blue has its chest explode in sparks and fall over dead. Floral Glory shouts something and brightly shining spears emerge from the ground beneath the fleeing demons. The impaled foot soldiers burst into flecks of light, a few demons who had escaped the initial attack are struck by the flecks and burst themselves.

As you twist in midair you wonder if there's a limit to how many times that happens. The last Commander on the field has attempted to hide himself behind some low bushes. You hit him with another one of your blindingly bright blasts

(He's dead okay?)

You shift back to a rapid firing configuration, the better to hem in the foot soldiers trying to escape, and swing around the far end of the enemy forces again.

Two minutes later only Magical Girls remain alive in the valley. The largest ones took an outrageous amount of shots to kill.
----

With the demons gone and their shadows banished you can see what they had been working on. Near the stream where there was a bit of soil they had started to dig holes, and after they had gone through all forty centimeters of dirt they had used picks and magic to dig deeper. Afterwards they had filled them back in with stones and dirt. Most of the holes had been small, about half a meter in diameter, but one was much larger -- you could have fit a motorcycle in it.

Blue Bandit had been pacing between some of the locations to count how many spots had been dug up. She returns to where Floral Glory had found a dry rock to sit upon and where you had elected to remain while Blue counted for herself.

"My gut says the big hole's a trap." Blue said, marking something in her notebook.

"I can't disagree." You reply.

"Thanks. Anyway, concerning that trap, I tried to have them send a team to destroy it, but someone wants to take a look at it for 'strategic reasons'. They haven't gotten around to telling us to start poking at it, but I'm expecting they will. So, I was wondering if you had some kind of crazy blast effect in your list of powers?"

"Something like that, yes."

"Great! Go and blast the big patch before they tell us not to."

You hesitate.
----

[X] Check in before acting.
You're pretty sure it's a trap, but there might be a good reason to try and collect it, or you might be afraid of getting in trouble, one of those.
-[X] Check in, but only to announce your intended actions [Which are?].
-[X] Check in, but only accept guarding it if they have a good enough reason [Which would be?].

[X] Use Wave Force on the buried trap.
That should solve any possible issues. You have the impression that Blue Bandit will want you to act like this was your idea.

[X] Use Panoply in Manufacture mode to dig it up.
Maybe you can carefully get a look at whatever it is. If you're very lucky it won't go off or be damaged in the process!

[X] Guard it.
If command doesn't want it blown up then you shouldn't blow it up.

+20 EXP Shadow Generator Dealt with
+50 EXP 83 Demon Foot Soldiers killed (Max 50 EXP granting kills per update per type!)
+20 EXP 4 Demon Commanders killed
+30 EXP 6 Least Behemoths killed
+20 EXP "And without so much as a scratch!"
+2 EXP What could they have been up to?

142 +75 = 217 Total EXP

[X] EXP Plan?
 
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