Remove ads

Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)

Reader mode
jmcdavid said:
TL;DR, there is literally no reason in this setting for Naruto to be even half as hyperactive as in canon, nor for Hinata to be as timid.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Honestly they diverged early enough that I would be shocked if they were at all similar to canon. At this point they are basically different people and don't have much in common with canon!Naruto and Hinata. They do and like different things, at this point they are more clones or twins that lived a different life. They may have the same nature but the nurture that they have could not be more different. Plus I would say that Naruto with all his changes from the tome probably doesn't have the same nature. You are so fluid when you are as young as they were and even still are because they were still becoming their own person. Even adults can change so much so as to be unrecognizable and these are children.
 
Last edited:
If anything, Naruto has been wanting less attention because of the complete 180 degree shift in how the population behaves towards him. Which he finds annoying and a bit creepy. Well, that and the fangirls annoy him.
 
uaeoaeoeoi said:
Even then flashbacks(especially if you include anime exclusive scenes) imply that Jiraya was more or less as attentive to Naruto's training as with the rasengan training during the search for Tsunade, meaning he would likely assign a task with little to no explanation and give advice only rarely while likely getting distracted by any pair of tits that he encounters wasting most of the time he should be using to train Naruto. That is of course on top of the hyperfocus on trying to have Naruto focus on preparing to fight Akatsuki by using the one thing Akatsuki would be most thoroughly planning to counter.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I actually have a theory about the whole "teacher doesn't teach much" trope that gets used a lot in Naruto. With Jiraiya, Kakashi, etc. It's definitely exaggerated a lot in fanon, but the point of fact is that it is there in canon.

Thing is, that doesn't mean it's a matter of the teacher neglecting their role. It could just mean that the teacher's role is different from what we, the fandom are thinking.

Jonin sensei? Yes, they're supposed to guide their genin and chaperone them a bit, especially early on in their careers. But that doesn't mean they are supposed to hold their hands every step of the way. Once you're a genin, you're considered an adult. Your sensei is there to give you advice, to keep you from dying if you get over your head, and to be someone you can ask for lessons on something if you need the help. They give pointers, help you learn the mission system, judge your progress and what you're ready for, etc. What they aren't there for, is to write up a training regimen and drill you every day, teach you all the jutsu you will ever need to know, and so on and so forth. You want to get stronger? Okay. Go train. You want your Jonin sensei to help you train for something in particular? Okay. Ask them. They're a Jonin. They have missions of their own. Their own stuff to do.

An apprenticeship is almost even more so of that. An apprentice is a junior assistant to a master, who learns the master's trade along the way. They learn by doing, and by watching their master do. The master may give them specific lessons, or they may mostly not. That's how it always has been for apprenticeships around the world anyways. There's more one-on-one time, yes, but your master is not sitting you down in a classroom. Their classroom teaching ended when they graduated the ninja academy. That period of their lives is over. If a genin wants to progress their career, it's up to them to pursue that.

From that perspective, Kakashi and Jiraiya were actually pretty great at their teaching jobs. They outright volunteered direct lessons on multiple occasions. Kakashi actually went so far as to volunteer one-on-one training for Sasuke between the stages of the chunin exams, and arranged another teacher to do the same for Naruto, before even being asked for training by either one of them.

He was supposed to judge whether or not they could hack it in the chunin exams? Well, you might say he was lax about that, but he clearly wasn't. Because they clearly were in fact, ready. They were up to the task, as he thought they were. Two of the three of them made it to the third round. That's a full quarter of the third stage's participants who were from his team, out of how many total exam entrants? That's impressive. One of them won his first round in the third stage as well, with the other being one of the crowd favorites who was doing a fine job against an active jinchuriki before they were interrupted by an invasion.

I don't think that Kakashi or Jiraiya were bad teachers. I think that the English fanbase got a wrong idea into our heads about what kind of teachers they were supposed to be in the first place.

This has been my largely-unprompted TED Talk. :cool:
 
Eh, there are other examples of what a jounin sensei is suppose to be like. We know that Might Gai actively works on improving his genin's taijutsu skills. He also works on their physical conditioning. it's likely he works on their weapon skills too, or at least he does so with Tenten. He at the very least found someone to help her with sealing, otherwise her scroll based technique wouldn't be a thing. Presumably he was teaching them tactics and other useful skills too.

Other known jounin sensei are known to have at least tried to improve their students hand to hand and field skills. Not to mention teaching tactics.

What did Kakashi teach? Uhm... that's a good question. He taught them tree climbing, but that's suppose to be a basic skill all genin get taught early on. Kakashi only taught them that because Zabuza was a known enemy for the Wave mission. But to be honest, that feels more like something he taught them to keep the kids occupied. It's not like the ability to walk up a wall/tree was going to help much against Zabuza and Haku. So... what was he teaching for the multiple hours a day the team was meeting, since they obviously weren't doing missions every single day.

I think it gets implied he was putting them through trust drill after trust drill, rather then teaching them anything. And this is despite Kakashi already knowing what areas each of them needed to improve. No physical conditioning (which is obvious since Sakura still had the exact same amount of stamina in the exams as she did in the academy), no working on their taijutsu or chakra control. Both things he knew at least one of his genin needed to work on quite badly. No, it's implied they just did trust drills. Team seven became effective despite Kakashi rather then because of him.

And I get it. Kakashi likely doesn't understand how to teach. He had never had to do so before. Every team he'd been assigned in the past had failed the bell test. Team 7 probably should have failed it too. Which suggests that Kakashi was under orders to pass this team, possibly due to Sasuke being on it. That and he wanted to teach Naruto. And I get too that he likely was being hampered by Danzo and his cronies to an extent. It's also possible that Kakashi was biding his time until Sasuke unlocked his bloodline limit, thinking that would be required to teach Sasuke anything.

But here's a riddle for you. Why would Kakashi think teaching his assassination jutsu to someone as mentally unstable as Sasuke was a good idea? Especially with the cursed seal applied to Sasuke? Even more so since the seal placed on it relies on the strength of will to resist the cursed seal. Something which Sasuke had not demonstrated. Even in the preliminaries wasn't Sasuke willing to draw on the cursed seal's corrupting power after Kakashi had tried to seal the damn thing away? And it was already a known fact that Sasuke held zero loyalty to the village beyond "can it make me strong enough to kill my brother".

In this story, it's unclear how good or bad of a teacher Kakashi is. But in canon, he is shown to do the absolute bare minimum . Good thing the Team Seven in this story aren't as dysfunctional as in canon. I'm pretty sure in canon he only recommended Team Seven for the chunin exams as a way to show the three they are not ready yet. That might be what his reasoning was here too. Fortunately they didn't get themselves killed.
 
Last edited:
Well, after realising that I missed like the last three updates, I decided to reread and then read this fic again. Still a ton of good fun. And it's so satisfing to see old Orochimaru screwed in SO many diffrent ways. It brings a tear of joy to my eye. And I wonder how Naruto obtaining a Bakugan will be handled by Hiashi? Should be fun to see. Well, good job here all around and can't wait for more.
 
deathgeonous said:
Well, after realising that I missed like the last three updates, I decided to reread and then read this fic again. Still a ton of good fun. And it's so satisfing to see old Orochimaru screwed in SO many diffrent ways. It brings a tear of joy to my eye. And I wonder how Naruto obtaining a Bakugan will be handled by Hiashi? Should be fun to see. Well, good job here all around and can't wait for more.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, Naruto and Hinata did trade. You know, chakra chains and shape shifting for the bakugan. And Naruto has been helping Hinata learn her family style.
 
It's Byakugan, Bakugan was a cross between Digimon and Beyblade hiding as an original property.
 
JadeKaiser said:
An apprenticeship is almost even more so of that. An apprentice is a junior assistant to a master, who learns the master's trade along the way. They learn by doing, and by watching their master do. The master may give them specific lessons, or they may mostly not. That's how it always has been for apprenticeships around the world anyways. There's more one-on-one time, yes, but your master is not sitting you down in a classroom. Their classroom teaching ended when they graduated the ninja academy. That period of their lives is over. If a genin wants to progress their career, it's up to them to pursue that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Except that it is supposed to be active participation where the apprentice learns where the master passes on the tips and tricks that they learnt either from their own master or by experience, especially if said apprentice has little to no experience themselves.

Jiraiya should have been telling Naruto about what he was doing most of the time, maybe teaching him how to do the seals on the bathhouses or whatever, some teaching on how to acquire intel and such things, most of this should have been done while they were traveling sure but it still should have been do.
 
The thing about saying something like "it's a mentorship; the student is supposed to be asking the questions" is that the student has to know that too. If Naruto's academy training was sabotaged as suggested, did anyone tell him that he needed to ask his jounin-sensei for advice and direct training as required? Or did he assume that the assigned jounin failing to provide direct contact was just another example of the village screwing around with him?
 
Mr_Rose said:
The thing about saying something like "it's a mentorship; the student is supposed to be asking the questions" is that the student has to know that too. If Naruto's academy training was sabotaged as suggested, did anyone tell him that he needed to ask his jounin-sensei for advice and direct training as required? Or did he assume that the assigned jounin failing to provide direct contact was just another example of the village screwing around with him?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Considering Sakura and Sasuke in canon also were expecting to be taught rather then having to ask for every scrap of information and training, the academy likely doesn't teach any of that mentality to begin with. You know,because the jounin sensei is suppose to be teaching the rookies rather then waiting for the genin to ask for training.
 
To ask you have to know WHAT to ask for. A mentor is supposed to guide their protege/apprentice, evaluate their strengths and weaknesses, not just be an accessible repository of knowledge.
 
DestinyPlayer said:
To be fair, the school system in real life also generally utterly fails to instill any ability to ask questions. It might just be an issue of generally accepted schooling systems overall.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In all fairness, the school system in the USA does exactly what it was originally designed to do quite well. Mind you, it wasn't designed to teach how to learn. It was designed to teach how to conform and be a good factory worker.

EDIT:
It's not the designers of the system's fault that it's now expected to impart knowledge and the ability to learn rather then conformity and ability to follow instructions.
 
Last edited:
FaerieKnight79 said:
Considering Sakura and Sasuke in canon also were expecting to be taught rather then having to ask for every scrap of information and training, the academy likely doesn't teach any of that mentality to begin with. You know,because the jounin sensei is suppose to be teaching the rookies rather then waiting for the genin to ask for training.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
IIRC, most fics handwave that away as the Academy's standards dropping. Like, Surface-walking is supposedly something that was taught in the academy when Obito and Rin attended, and so on. Though granted, this generally is explained by "Civilian Council dropped standards so more civilians become ninja!", which is stupid for more reasons than I care to write out.
 
Jordisk said:
IIRC, most fics handwave that away as the Academy's standards dropping. Like, Surface-walking is supposedly something that was taught in the academy when Obito and Rin attended, and so on. Though granted, this generally is explained by "Civilian Council dropped standards so more civilians become ninja!", which is stupid for more reasons than I care to write out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair, we don't see older ninja using it to its potential either if it is supposedly that foundational.
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
What did Kakashi teach? Uhm... that's a good question. He taught them tree climbing
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Technically not even that, he gave a single demonstration, Sakura figured it out and did all of the actual teaching there.

Shippuden also makes Kakashi and Jiraya objectively worse teachers the moment it mentions the shadow clone memory transfer. Then makes Jiraya even worse when it reveals Naruto's elemental affinity because while Kakashi can be let off on that due to it being an advanced lesson that likely wouldn't be covered in the first year as a genin, Jiraya doesn't have that excuse given the level he was supposed to be training Naruto to fight at to deal with Akatsuki and it would have been far more valuable as a lesson than trying to use Kurama's chakra when Akatsuki would be actively preparing to counter exactly that one specific option because they are after the biju and that is the trait they are guaranteed to know about in advance.

PossiblyEnos said:
To be fair, we don't see older ninja using it to its potential either if it is supposedly that foundational.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Especially for somebody like Naruto who can just intentionally overcharge it and crush/explode things with a touch.
 
Last edited:
uaeoaeoeoi said:
Shippuden also makes Kakashi and Jiraya objectively worse teachers the moment it mentions the shadow clone memory transfer. Then makes Jiraya even worse when it reveals Naruto's elemental affinity because while Kakashi can be let off on that due to it being an advanced lesson that likely wouldn't be covered in the first year as a genin, Jiraya doesn't have that excuse given the level he was supposed to be training Naruto to fight at to deal with Akatsuki and it would have been far more valuable as a lesson than trying to use Kurama's chakra when Akatsuki would be actively preparing to counter exactly that one specific option because they are after the biju and that is the trait they are guaranteed to know about in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Kakashi: He's gonna figure Shadow Clone Memory Transfer aaaaany moment now...
Kakashi 3 years later: Guess I have to give him a hint.
 
Kirill said:
Kakashi: He's gonna figure Shadow Clone Memory Transfer aaaaany moment now...
Kakashi 3 years later: Guess I have to give him a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair to Naruto, the only times he used shadow clones in canon before learning the memory transfer was a thing, was to generate cannon fodder for fights where they had only seconds to a bit over a minute of memories that would be similar enough to blend in with his own perspective of the fight or at least prior memories of earlier parts of the fight so that it isn't impossible or unlikely for the extra memories to be ignored or just not register, especially when his attention is actively focused on an ongoing fight.
 
Also to be fair, that detail was probably not mentioned in the Forbidden Scroll. Or if it was, it was probably in language that a self trained kid was unlikely to understand. It'd be like asking an 11 year old kid with no formal education beyond how to read to read and understand a typical EULA. Which are something most adults have trouble parsing.
 
Last edited:
Exactly. he could be an amazingly good teacher, or the worst teacher ever. And we wouldn't know. Neither would the village, because he's not teaching.
 
Honestly it's kinda scary how much Naruto was just not trained. Like there are some things that I can understand that he just missed or was just a bad student. But this guy somehow doesn't know the right word for chakra or anything about affinitys. Like it has to of been at least on some level deliberate. Then all of Naruto's other teachers just can't or won't teach for some god forsaken reason.
 
Iridesce said:
Honestly it's kinda scary how much Naruto was just not trained. Like there are some things that I can understand that he just missed or was just a bad student. But this guy somehow doesn't know the right word for chakra or anything about affinitys. Like it has to of been at least on some level deliberate. Then all of Naruto's other teachers just can't or won't teach for some god forsaken reason.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Canonically, even Iruka initially hated Naruto. But really, if he was just a bad student then Naruto wouldn't have been kept in the academy after the first time he failed a graduation exam, in theory. The fact that he was as good as he was via self training is proof that Naruto wasn't a bad student. Hell, he then showed he can and does understand what he's doing and why when he taught the 3rds grandson how to use Henge.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top