Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)

[uaeoaeoeoi]

They might find out something if depending on how the invasion goes for Orochimaru, because he was a member temporarily and may still technically be in this given that he hasn't had to run away over failing to bodyjack Itachi.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

They might find out something if depending on how the invasion goes for Orochimaru, because he was a member temporarily and may still technically be in this given that he hasn't had to run away over failing to bodyjack Itachi.

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It's already known that Orochimaru is trying to find who the nine tails container is. But what he said doesn't give any indication he's doing so for any reason beyond "I want the information". The fact he's a member of the organization may not be known either.

 

[JumperPrime]

It's already known that Orochimaru is trying to find who the nine tails container is. But what he said doesn't give any indication he's doing so for any reason beyond "I want the information". The fact he's a member of the organization may not be known either.

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If Orochimaru is still a member in good standing of Akatsuki, that means they'll be able to perform Biju extractions faster than in canon. IIRC, when Orochimaru quit/was expelled he took his ring with him and without that ring, their Biju extraction procedure wasn't able to progress as fast.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

It doesn't matter though, since their plans are impossible due to a complete lack of the nine tails.

 

[JumperPrime]

It doesn't matter though, since their plans are impossible due to a complete lack of the nine tails.

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They probably haven't realized that yet, so they'll still be hunting the rest of the tailed beasts, and each successful extraction means a dead jinchurikki. The only reason Gaara survived in canon was because that old lady sacrificed her life to bring him back, and even that wouldn't have worked if the rescue team hadn't arrived so soon after the extraction was finished.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

True, but we know they can't start the plan until they know where all the tailed beasts are.

 

[Jacen1]

It's already known that Orochimaru is trying to find who the nine tails container is. But what he said doesn't give any indication he's doing so for any reason beyond "I want the information". The fact he's a member of the organization may not be known either.

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I forget when exactly it came up, but I believe Orochimaru at one point thought/commented the driving reason for the invasion (with Uchiha being less rare then in canon) was that he was hired to identify the real container of the nine tailed fox. This implies he is not a current member, but is on good enough terms to be a sub-contractor.

Then again, I may be misremembering...

 

[FaerieKnight79]

I forget when exactly it came up, but I believe Orochimaru at one point thought/commented the driving reason for the invasion (with Uchiha being less rare then in canon) was that he was hired to identify the real container of the nine tailed fox. This implies he is not a current member, but is on good enough terms to be a sub-contractor.

Then again, I may be misremembering...

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He thinks about that. But when he confronts Team Yurei he only mentions that he has several things to do, and that verifying Naruto doesn't contain the nine tails is only one of them. This was in chapter 15, by the way.

 

[Chronocidal]

Nope, Jiraiya died and the toads show up on their own initiative to take up training him, Jiraiya's intent was irrelevant to the matter of Naruto's sage training by the time it happened.

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Weird, I seem to recall Jiraiya being present when Naruto signed the Toad Contract, summoned Gamabunta, and was introduced to the Toad Summons? You're saying they just turned up after he died to talk to a complete stranger?

¬_¬

 

[Jordisk]

Weird, I seem to recall Jiraiya being present when Naruto signed the Toad Contract, summoned Gamabunta, and was introduced to the Toad Summons? You're saying they just turned up after he died to talk to a complete stranger?

¬_¬

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Being taught to summon and being taught sage mode are two completely different things. He was speaking of the latter.

 

[Jacen1]

He thinks about that. But when he confronts Team Yurei he only mentions that he has several things to do, and that verifying Naruto doesn't contain the nine tails is only one of them. This was in chapter 15, by the way.

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Oh, verifying that Naruto isn't the real target is only one thing on his list, and he has plenty of reasons for the attack. It's just the bit about finding the nine tails container is something he's being paid for that implies his membership in a certain group has either lapsed for other reasons or never happened in this setting. Otherwise, it would be an assignment, not a paid job.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

No, during his inner monologue he muses that the entire reason for the invasion is because he's being paid to force the reveal of who the fox's container is. He just decided he has other objectives too, such as putting a cursed seal on Sasuke. Presumably he decided to put the cursed seal on the rest of Team Seven on a whim. Now he's thinking he'll need to have a squad abduct a kid who doesn't have the bloodline limit unlocked yet, since the cursed seals "failed to take".

 

[AzrielIlluminare]

Also, you know the grudge he's been nursing against Konoha for picking Minato as Fourth instead of him. His dislike of the Third for running him out of the village and the like, so yeah the invasion would have happened even without him being paid to lure the hidden container out. It just means he gets to do what he wanted to anyway and is now getting paid to do it.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

Also, you know the grudge he's been nursing against Konoha for picking Minato as Fourth instead of him. His dislike of the Third for running him out of the village and the like, so yeah the invasion would have happened even without him being paid to lure the hidden container out. It just means he gets to do what he wanted to anyway and is now getting paid to do it.

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That grudge actually fell by the wayside due to becoming the kage of his own 'hidden village' and reallizing the horror that is "a kage's paperwork." He's forgiven those involved in the decision. I mean, sure he's going to (try to) destroy the village and kill the 3rd Hokage. But he hadn't been planning on invading until he got paid to do so in an effort to reveal who contains the fox.

 

[jmcdavid]

That grudge actually fell by the wayside due to becoming the kage of his own 'hidden village' and reallizing the horror that is "a kage's paperwork." He's forgiven those involved in the decision. I mean, sure he's going to (try to) destroy the village and kill the 3rd Hokage. But he hadn't been planning on invading until he got paid to do so in an effort to reveal who contains the fox.

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Plot twist: Orochimaru gets a redemption arc after being told the secret of paperwork clones.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

Plot twist: Orochimaru gets a redemption arc after being told the secret of paperwork clones.

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Now you're just being silly. He's still an amoral bastard willing to kidnap, experiment upon, and torture others in a bid for immortality and learning all the jutsu. he just forgave the 3rd for passing him over to be the 4th Hokage in favor of Minato due to realizing the horror of Paperwork.

 

[AzrielIlluminare]

Plot twist: Orochimaru gets a redemption arc after being told the secret of paperwork clones.

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Personally I hope he doesn't, he's done wayyy too much to just have people go "Oh it's okay you're forgiven so long as you promise not to do bad things anymore." When that happened in canon it pissed me off, sure allying with him during the clusterfuck known as the 4th War made sense at the time, but he basically just got a stern talking to and told not to do it again, which he immediately negated by going right back to his experiments and nobody did a thing about it.

Plus in the here and now Naruto and Co. have literally no reason to spare him, he's already almost killed Naruto, and unlike in canon Naruto is willing kill if he has to. And Orochi is definitely one of those who needs killing.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

Pretty sure in canon Naruto is willing to kill when needed. Or do you really think all the nameless and faceless minions Team Seven goes through in the various movies were just knocked out? Or the one off badguys from the movies?

 

[Jacen1]

No, during his inner monologue he muses that the entire reason for the invasion is because he's being paid to force the reveal of who the fox's container is. He just decided he has other objectives too, such as putting a cursed seal on Sasuke.

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Exactly. He's being paid to force the reveal. Not ordered to by Pein. Not assigned to do this task. Paid. You focus on all the other aspects, when the entire point that I'm trying to make is that this indicates he's unlikely to be a member of Akatsuki at this time, and if he had been he left on good enough terms to do contract work for them.

Are there any indications that I missed that implies otherwise?

 

[AzrielIlluminare]

Pretty sure in canon Naruto is willing to kill when needed. Or do you really think all the nameless and faceless minions Team Seven goes through in the various movies were just knocked out? Or the one off badguys from the movies?

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And does he ever purposefully kill them? Does he go into the fight thinking "This guy needs to die and I'm gonna be the one to do it?" No, he doesn't. Sure he gets angry and says he gonna beat the shit out of them, but he never truly fights to kill. Unlike here if it came down to it he would, and sure I get that it's a show and with ratings and the like they can't just show it without getting in trouble.

So no I don't think they all lived, but that's not the point.

 

[FaerieKnight79]

I can't speak for the manga since I haven't read it, but you can't really tell what he's thinking in the anime. Or what most are thinking. But I'm pretty sure that he was going into most of his fights with intent to kill. Not all of them, but a large number.

 

[pids]

Exactly. He's being paid to force the reveal. Not ordered to by Pein. Not assigned to do this task. Paid. You focus on all the other aspects, when the entire point that I'm trying to make is that this indicates he's unlikely to be a member of Akatsuki at this time, and if he had been he left on good enough terms to do contract work for them.

Are there any indications that I missed that implies otherwise?

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Pretty sure he used to be a member, as his inner monologue references one of the members that deals with paperwork and his time with them during his reacting to Naruto's killing/paperwork intent.

 

[Jacen1]

Which raises the question, how does one go about leaving such an organization and remain on good enough terms to be hired by them to find something out?

Unless, of course, someone else is paying to find the Nine Tailed Fox. Danzo, perhaps...

 

[OtteryLexa]

Everyone is assuming that he's being paid by Akatsuki to reveal the Ninth Jinchuriki, but are we sure about that? Could it be Danzo who is paying him to invade Konoha? Because that's the sort of big-brain strategy we see from him.

Edit: ninja'ed

 

[CmptrWz]

Except that it is supposed to be active participation where the apprentice learns where the master passes on the tips and tricks that they learnt either from their own master or by experience, especially if said apprentice has little to no experience themselves.

Jiraiya should have been telling Naruto about what he was doing most of the time, maybe teaching him how to do the seals on the bathhouses or whatever, some teaching on how to acquire intel and such things, most of this should have been done while they were traveling sure but it still should have been do.

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Note that Jiraiya may have concluded that Naruto as he was in canon would never be able to handle being a spymaster, so teaching him that side of things was meaningless even without the threat of people hunting Naruto down.

...which doesn't excuse other things, and would it have killed the man to leave a shadow clone to teach Naruto while the real him was managing his network?

...and any sensei that can make two or more shadow clones is, honestly, doing their genin a major disservice if they don't use it at least weekly to give all three simultaneous one-on-one training.

But there's a pretty big difference, at least in reaction to, 'that organization of S-Ranks that want the Bijuu for some reason,' as was eventually discovered, probably by Itachi, and 'that organization of S-Ranks that Iwa keeps hiring' which might be the only thing they would really find out without inside information.

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"An organization of S-Ranks is doing jobs for a bunch of people" is, indeed, far less of an immediate concern to Konoha, beyond "unless they're hired to attack us" anyway.

Exactly. He's being paid to force the reveal. Not ordered to by Pein. Not assigned to do this task. Paid. You focus on all the other aspects, when the entire point that I'm trying to make is that this indicates he's unlikely to be a member of Akatsuki at this time, and if he had been he left on good enough terms to do contract work for them.

Are there any indications that I missed that implies otherwise?

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So...er...

Why do people seem to be assuming that Akatsuki doesn't pay its members when they're sent to do things? Whether because they were hired or it's an internal intel-gathering job? Because not paying your S-Class nin for their work seems like a really, really bad way to keep them working for you.