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Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)

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FaerieKnight79 said:
But didn't Gato's men also get slaughtered by a mortally wounded Zabuza and a tired Kakashi?
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Yep, at that point Zabuza was mortally wounded and had no functional arms. He gripped a knife in his teeth and blitzed through the mooks, killing or wounding a few in passing, then killed Gato. Then Naruto and an exhausted Kakashi smacked around the rest.

Think Inari turned up with some villagers at that point too, but the fighting was already done and Gato was a corpse floating in the water.

FaerieKnight79 said:
Gato and his men would have then attacked, and been facing two ninja who aren't mortally injured or exhausted. Maybe a little tired, but not completely exhausted. The entire "betray, kill, and claim bounties" plan requires that all ninja involved be badly injured and exhausted to the point of collapse. Without that, the men Gato can bring to bear are... not helpful at all. It also requires that none of the ninja are capable of throwing even a single kunai 100 feet with any force or accuracy. Even Sakura could do that during the Wave mission in canon. Since Gato was stupid enough to go there in person, even Sakura could have ended him with a single thrown kunai... if she wasn't busy quaking in her boots due to being out of her depth.
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Yeah, he clearly didn't have a fucking clue what he was dealing with. His plan have basically zero chance of success, or even survival on his part. Whatever past dealings he's had with ninja, they were obviously low level scrubs, because he was utterly unprepared - seemingly unaware - of even Genin-level ninja bullshit.
 
Well, nobody ever said that Gato was particularly clever. Just rich and greedy.

I mean, his whole plan was apparently a [yay]show from the top all the way down:

He essentially takes over what is supposedly a small country - and then proceeds to strip it of any valuable resources up to and including any ability of the surviving locals may have had to continue to make him more money. Wave had actually been in a good position to become a major trade-hub, and the locals would have praised Gato as their hero had he actually taken the right steps to build it up as such, but instead he just wrecks the local economy and takes so much from the locals that they can barely even feed themselves.

One of the locals devises a way to possibly revitalize the local economy despite Gato's depredations? Gato decides to hire a really expensive nuke-nin in order to kill the local that had come up with it. Nevermind the fact that Gato would have stood to make more money by allowing the bridge to be built and then taking it over and charging a toll for using it.

And, of course, there's the fact that Gato hired an A-ranked nuke-nin and his minions with the full intent of reneging on his deal and having the rogue ninja killed and turned in for whatever bounties they may have had on their heads.

I mean, really, if he wanted the bridge builder dead, he could have just had the mercenaries he already had working for him do the job before the guy even left for Konoha in the first place!

If I had to guess, I'd hazard that Gato had basically inherited his business empire somehow rather than having built it up himself, and all he really knows how to do is acquire the next resource, strip it for everything it's worth for the short-term gain, and then move on to the next target to repeat the process, whether that target is a rival business, a small country, or an A-ranked nuke-nin capable of killing all of his bodyguards and him while mortally wounded.

Or, basically, the exact type of stereotypically incompetent middle manager who is just skilled enough to get into a position where they are left wondering just how everything went so wrong - all the while denying that it was their own policies that caused whatever disaster they are left holding the bag for.
 
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FaerieKnight79 said:
Admittedly, it's been a while since I watched Naruto. But didn't Gato's men also get slaughtered by a mortally wounded Zabuza and a tired Kakashi? With that in mind, let's assume things in canon had gone slightly different. What if Naruto had not drawn upon the 9 Tails's chakra when fighting Haku. Naruto would have lost, but not been killed. Haku wasn't going for the kill after all.

Maybe Zabuza could beat Kakashi, maybe he couldn't. But he wouldn't have been fighting alone at this point. Sakura was still a virtually useless (as a ninja) fangirl with crap stamina due to dieting after all. Haku would have gone through her like a hot knife through butter. Assuming of course that Sakura managed to even try doing anything. Could Zabuza and Haku have beaten Kakashi? Maybe. They'd have stood a better chance anyway. But let's assume they manage to win.

Gato and his men would have then attacked, and been facing two ninja who aren't mortally injured or exhausted. Maybe a little tired, but not completely exhausted. The entire "betray, kill, and claim bounties" plan requires that all ninja involved be badly injured and exhausted to the point of collapse. Without that, the men Gato can bring to bear are... not helpful at all. It also requires that none of the ninja are capable of throwing even a single kunai 100 feet with any force or accuracy. Even Sakura could do that during the Wave mission in canon. Since Gato was stupid enough to go there in person, even Sakura could have ended him with a single thrown kunai... if she wasn't busy quaking in her boots due to being out of her depth.
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My assumption was that Gato got lucky and pulled his idea off one time and felt it worked so well that he couldn't resist bragging about it when trying it again with Zabuza, while likely exaggerating to inflate his own ego after a bedridden Zabuza snapped his arm like a twig.

As for what happened in canon, Zabuza's arms were disabled by Kakashi's dogs so he had Naruto toss him a kunai and bumrushed through the group of thugs to gank Gato as quickly as he could while taking out about a dozen or so that were directly in the way and letting the rest that could reach stab him, probably just to make Gato piss himself even further. After that Naruto and Kakashi summon a few clones (a dozen or so shadow clones for naruto and about half or less that for kakashi who notes that due to exhaustion are mostly just acadamy clones for intimidation) before the angry mob Inari gathered arrives and the remaining thugs decide to nope out of the area now that they are actually outnumbered.
 
I have to assume that the events in canon are the first time Gato hired then tried to betray a nuke-nin. After all, if he'd pulled that stunt before Gato would have known that even low ranked ninja outclass his thugs and are bullshit levels of dangerous. Hell, the fact that a bedridden and virtually helpless Zabuza was able to break Gato's arm so easily should have warned Gato that his planned betrayal wouldn't work.
 
hello just catch up i been loving the story so far.
question though and I'm sorry if this has been asked before but are we going to see more of the Nanoha side of the crossover? i know this is mostly just naruto but I would like to see more nanoha elements arriving so I thought about asking.
 
We probably wont get more from the Nanoha side. After all, they have no reason to come looking for Tome of the Orange Sky. And from what the author has said, the story may well be set thousands of years after the events in MGLN. If they show up, it's likely to not happen until near the end of the story. But don't hold your breath.
 
The wiki claims Gato was the founder of the shipping company but frankly he feels more someone who got his position due to nepotism. Either due to being related to the owner or inheriting it from a parent. If you told me that I would totally believe you especially if you noted that he was only appointed recently.
Heck I could see him as a new middle manager that has poor understand of long term consequences. Or a newly appointed noble.
That leads to an interest fic idea where the solution to Gato isn't to kill him but to report him to his superiors who are angry he cost them the good will of the people...

As for the ninja problem I suspect that he's probably only hired a few genin level ninja or only recently came up with the 'genius' idea of killing them afterwards.
As for why hire ninja rather than send a few knee breakers around to Tanzo house. Possibly Gato made a few threats about that causing Tanzo to decide to hire ninja before they could act. This made Gato decided to hire his own to counter
Of course this doesn't explain why he didn't just send a few mercenaries around to kill the workmen or burn down the bridge.
 
Maybe he inherited (or otherwise acquired) the money he used to found his shipping company?

As for the rest, I think it's been well established that Gato was a greedy idiot with more money than sense.

And more cellulite than sense.

And more fingers and toes than sense.

Heck, I dare say Gato has more nose than sense!
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
Burn down a stone bridge... yeah, that's a good plan. It'll work amazingly well.
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To be honest, burning down a stone bridge does sound like something Gato would hire somebody to do. Nevermind whether or not it's even possible in the first place, or would actually cost him more in the long run than whatever short-term gains he thought he might make from ordering this action.

Basically, he's the Elemental Countries' equivalent of the Pointy-Haired Boss from Dilbert.

(In case you couldn't tell, I have a really low opinion of Gato's capabilities as a businessman) :grin:
 
It might depend partially on if there's anything on it that's flammable; a hot enough fire would ruin the stone, after all. And if there's wooden braces (and I don't think there were, but I don't remember that much about the bridge itself), then that would cause issues as well.

There's probably also at least one jutsu specifically to set fire things that normally don't catch fire. More than just 'really, really hot fire'. But then, there's likely not too many, since whatever reason there would be, would likely be covered by a much easier non-fire jutsu. In this case, some Earth Jutsu to destroy the stone bridge.

And Gato really seems like the kind of guy that would go 'this would terrifying the people into obeying me', and looking at everything in that context, makes sense. A bunch of actions that, while short-sighted, show off in a 'I can do what I want' way. Just, y'know, undermining his ability to keep it going for too long due to crossing the wrong person, eventually.
 
ForwardRewind said:
It might depend partially on if there's anything on it that's flammable; a hot enough fire would ruin the stone, after all. And if there's wooden braces (and I don't think there were, but I don't remember that much about the bridge itself), then that would cause issues as well.

There's probably also at least one jutsu specifically to set fire things that normally don't catch fire. More than just 'really, really hot fire'. But then, there's likely not too many, since whatever reason there would be, would likely be covered by a much easier non-fire jutsu. In this case, some Earth Jutsu to destroy the stone bridge.

And Gato really seems like the kind of guy that would go 'this would terrifying the people into obeying me', and looking at everything in that context, makes sense. A bunch of actions that, while short-sighted, show off in a 'I can do what I want' way. Just, y'know, undermining his ability to keep it going for too long due to crossing the wrong person, eventually.
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And it didn't even take that long. He hired some mercenaries, betrayed the mercenaries, and was killed by them all within 2 or 3 weeks time. Granted, it's unclear how long the trip to Wave took. But it was probably no more then a couple weeks.

Which raises a question in my mind. If his plan all along had been to kill the nuke-nin he had hired and claim any bounties on their heads... Just how did Gato plan to do this if Zabuza or the Demon Brothers had managed to actually kill the bridge builder and any ninja hired to protect him without taking any injuries?
 
Team Seven was actually in Wave for all of five days before Gato died of idiocy, although it's unclear how many days past those initial five they stayed until the bridge was finished. Which was the job they were actually hired for: Guarding the bridge until it was finished.

Never let it be said that Konoha leaves a contract unfinished if they can help it. Even if the actual threat to the bridge was eliminated about halfway through its construction...
 
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Not having actually followed the franchise... The plan of "hire someone to kill what my army can't, and then betray them" seems dumb, yeah, but "they've lost all their limbs and are exhausted after that fight" sure does seem like the sort of thing that would make one think it was possible to pull something like that off.
 
Tangent said:
Team Seven was actually in Wave for all of five days before Gato died of idiocy, although it's unclear how many days past those initial five they stayed until the bridge was finished. Which was the job they were actually hired for: Guarding the bridge until it was finished.

Never let it be said that Konoha leaves a contract unfinished if they can help it. Even if the actual threat to the bridge was eliminated about halfway through its construction...
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Yes, they were in Wave for roughly a week before Gato got himself killed. But the trip from the Hidden Village to Wave probably took a week or two, since they had to travel at the pace of an old drunkard walking along the ground.

Qwertystop said:
Not having actually followed the franchise... The plan of "hire someone to kill what my army can't, and then betray them" seems dumb, yeah, but "they've lost all their limbs and are exhausted after that fight" sure does seem like the sort of thing that would make one think it was possible to pull something like that off.
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The problem is, of course, that he had planned the betrayal either right from the get go, or after Zabuza's initial fight with Kakashi. Probably from the moment of hiring Zabuza though. Gato didn't seem like the kind of person who would be willing to actually pay for services rendered if he thinks he can get away with not doing so. Hell, I bet Gato's initial thought when meeting the bedridden Zabuza was "I'll kill the ninja now instead of waiting, since they failed the job anyway." At least, it probably was up until his arm was broken. Thus proving that his hired ninja were not helpless.
 
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On one occasion, in a fic who's name I do not remember, it was mentioned that the VAST majority of nukenin are low level Genin, not elite Jonin or even experienced Chunin. As such, it's entirely possible Gato had dealt with some scrubs in the past, and simply didn't realize just how much more impressive an experienced and well trained ninja could be. Naturally, the more experienced nukenin wouldn't think twice about these scrubs dying while working for anybody.

How does he keep hiring them? By using cutout agents so they don't know who they are working for until they get hired.

How to keep things quiet? Split the bounty with some Hunter Nins that take the credit in public. His history of hiring Nukenin would be explanation enough for why they would hang around his businesses.

That said, he is a lousy business man, and acted more like a wannabe crime lord. Of this, there is no doubt.
 
On burning down stone bridges; this actually works if you do it right.
Setting a bonfire on the road surface isn't doing it right.
Waiting until after a rainstorm the setting fires around the base of the columns so the water they have absorbed boils and cracks them is doing it right.
In this setting, hiring a ninja with Earth elemental powers to rip out the supports is also doing it right.
In the case of a bridge under construction, burning down the scaffolding is also doing it right because that will be made of wood, regardless. Unless it's modern galvanised steel in which case this still works but will be more melty than burny and need more fuel.
 
Mr_Rose said:
On burning down stone bridges; this actually works if you do it right.
Setting a bonfire on the road surface isn't doing it right.
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Starting a bonfire, no.

Poring a supply of Chlorine Trifloride over the surface of the bridge, on the other hand, would burn it down quite nicely indeed...

Or, in setting, a few dozen properly placed explosive tags would bring down any bridge. No active ninja need be present.
 
Jacen1 said:
Starting a bonfire, no.

Poring a supply of Chlorine Trifloride over the surface of the bridge, on the other hand, would burn it down quite nicely indeed...
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Okay, while that will definitely burn down the bridge, the problem with N-stoff is that it will also burn down the cliffs, the trees, and the river underneath the bridge if you use enough. Also it will probably burn through the container it's in and anyone carrying it long before it gets where it's needed.
 
I'd be willing to hazard that, assuming Gato has done this before, most of the shlubbs being hired weren't even full genin but academy washouts. The sort with just enough training/knowledge to give them an edge over normals, but not enough to merit placement in a village's ninja forces.
 
Personally, I'd think that most nuke-nin are chunin rank at the lowest. Most genin would lack the skills needed to survive being on the run. They'd also lack the experience needed to find paying work, let alone survive the jobs. Especially if they're recent Academy graduates.
 
Mr_Rose said:
Okay, while that will definitely burn down the bridge, the problem with N-stoff is that it will also burn down the cliffs, the trees, and the river underneath the bridge if you use enough. Also it will probably burn through the container it's in and anyone carrying it long before it gets where it's needed.
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If you can make CLF3, you can prepare steel drums to be able to hold it; just expose the inside to some relatively safe Florine gas, and a nonreactive layer will form to protect the steel.

As to the collateral damage, a well spread out few gallons should do the trick with most of the oxidizer being consumed by the time the bridge is wrecked. Just don't use too much.

FaerieKnight79 said:
Personally, I'd think that most nuke-nin are chunin rank at the lowest. Most genin would lack the skills needed to survive being on the run. They'd also lack the experience needed to find paying work, let alone survive the jobs. Especially if they're recent Academy graduates.
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Most genin aren't worth hunting down, as long as they don't cause trouble or know too many village secrets; it's the chunin and higher that are seriously hunted. As to surviving on the run, just blend in to the civilian population long enough to get out of the country, and then try to make friends in low places to find work. I expect a LOT of minor criminal organizations would be happy to hire even genin as better then average muscle, messengers, thieves and spies. All jobs that stay under the radar of the Hidden Villages, and all jobs scrub level genin can do.

After all, in an early filler arc, a Kohona missing nin turns up, and even the head of T&I is perfectly willing to ignore him...
 
That really only accounts for the class years that Naruto was attending.

Mind you, even then Konoha had the ridiculous practice of failing two thirds of the genin that managed to pass the Academy examination by having their prospective jonin instructors give them their own follow-up examination to see if they were "worth teaching."

Which we later learn is heavily influenced by political pressures. As much as I dislike Kakashi's early Sasuke-centric training bias and general failings as a team mentor, he was placed in a difficult position: The only reason the council would have accepted his opting to fail Team Seven was because Naruto was on his team, and the only reason the same council would have accepted his opting to pass Team Seven was because Sasuke was on his team. Not that Kakashi actually cared about what the council wanted one way or the other, but that's still a lot of political pressure to place on a prospective jonin instructor.

And there was almost no way that the graduating Academy teams with the Clan heirs in them would have been failed by their respective potential jonin instructors, and oh isn't it oh so coincidental that all the clan heirs ended up on teams with other clan heirs instead of civilians or branch members?

I'm just surprised that Sarutobi let this practice go on that long.
 
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