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Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)

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CmptrWz said:
Now, I'm not saying that physical transformations are impossible in canon, but it seems like every physical transformation that doesn't originate with Naruto is explicitly another jutsu in some fashion instead of part of the all-purpose academy jutsu. The wiki's claim that all of these other jutsu are "derived from" the academy one is, IMO, a mistake for several of them and misleading for others.
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not necessarily, "derived from" just means that at its base, they started with the same principles as the base 3 henge.

sort of like how all clone jutsu are potentially derived from the academy one, but no one really uses the academy one for more than a few second distraction. but other clone jutsus are immensely powerful and/or useful
 
CmptrWz said:
All twelve meters, every last one filling clear to the top and pulsing with energy before something went pop and a burst of chakra came out of the top of the machine in a rainbow-like cloud.
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... why I get flashbacks from one of the moments of the final battle of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann here?
 
For the whole "no one uses the Henge" thing: I think this is fairly easy to explain.

When you're playing an RPG with dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of skills; each skill with their own levels that need to be individually raised... How often are you going to max-level the beginner skills? Be honest here, almost no one does; they ignore them as soon as they get some "better" skills to use. And as they learn new skills, they level those until they get "better" skills, at which point they stop using the previous skills and start leveling the new one; rinse repeat. Even if they still use the older techniques, they stop training them

One thing that is canon to Naruto is those who have focused all their effort into fully mastering a specific jutsu gain amazing abilities through that jutsu, even with basic jutsu; but it's also canon that almost no one actually develops a single jutsu to this point. There are very few ninja from any village reportedly to have achieved this.

Let's use Shunshin no Jutsu as an example. The body-flicker technique used by almost all chunin, all jounin, and a few genin for high-speed movement. Everyone knows the jutsu. How many people have actually mastered it? One. Precisely one. And he was legendary for it. Shunshin no Shisui, AKA Shisui Uchiha. He took a jutsu used purely for utility by everyone else, and developed it into an offensive technique whose only (known) rival for speed (in the entire shinobi world) was the 4th using his patented 'Yellow Flash'.

So why isn't everyone and their mother using henge left and right? Because no one bothered to train it to that point. I mean seriously, how often do you even see henge even used by anyone but Naruto in the anime? It happens, but not often. Most transformations are done through different techniques that the basic henge.
 
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let's face it guys if henge as a real physical transformation it is too OP to be taught to kiddies. Basically it is magical shapeshift, or polymorph. I mean why if you had 1000 conscripts, you teach one technique (henge) and you already have a powerful army ready to take on and dominate traditional army. The return on investment is immense for just a single technique. Why waste time and money teaching multiple years of theory and practice when a few weeks' instruction on this singular technic is enough. Ofcouse application of the henge will depend on the mental flexibility and knowledge of the user but still for one technique, one skill, it seems it is only the imagination/knowledge that is the limit.

Also sorry for harping on this sideline.(i really have got nothing to do today except waiting for my bread dough to rise).
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
Naruto himself is shown to have a Henge that physically transforms him. But he's the only one shown to be able to do that. And it's never explicitly mentioned. It's rather implicately implied by the way Naruto uses his Henge technique in combat. The techniques other ninja use that are shown to provide a physical tranformation however are all suppose to be clan techniques or taught by summons, I think. You know, rather then a generic henge technique taught to all ninja. The 5th Hokage does use a physical transformation to appear younger then she is, true. But that's explicitly stated to be a technique of her own creation, and the gem she has on her forehead is a focus for the technique. I think it's mentioned to be related to her superhuman strength too.

Somehow, I doubt a technique that physically transforms the user gets taught in the academy. Such a technique likely has a higher chakra cost then most students could handle safely, and would probably be classified as a higher rank jutsu then academy students are allowed to learn. My theory has long been that Naruto tried to do the one taught in the academy, but due to a combination of his sabotaged education and containing the Nine Tailed Fox Naruto got it wrong somehow. Thus he ended up with something that looks to the casual observer to be what was taught, while having properties that Naruto doesn't realize it's not suppose to have. Then again, considering Naruto mainly uses it in combat to change into weapons or the 'sexy jutsu', it's likely any observer wouldn't realize there's something odd about his henge technique.
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Actually, the only henge that's called out in canon as being different from the default one is Kiba's, and there's no mention of it having been taught by summons. The closest justification one could use for any of the others, including that used by Enma to transform into a weapon for Hiruzen to use against Orochimaru, is that it shows them calling out what they are transforming into.

There is a jutsu called the Transformation/Henge. Every one of the few times that a character uses a jutsu that is named the Transformation/Henge, or that looks like the Transformation/Henge, and it is tested as to whether it is physical, it is shown to indeed be so. One of these cases is called out as being special and different from the regular one, but all other cases are not. There are no instances where a henge of any sort is shown to be an illusion, and multiple (if few) instances in which one is shown to be physical. The only "evidence" or reason for us to think that it might not be physical is fans saying that it must be some sort of uber-powerful, all-defeating ultimate technique which would be used for everything if it were. Occam's Razor applies. Which is more simple and canon compliant? That every single case we see where it would be tested is a unique exception to the norm, somehow resulting in the exact same outcome from each and every one of those 'unique exceptions?' Or that they are normal, and there is a different reason why it is not as powerful as you think it must be?

TL;DR: We are told of a technique called "henge," are never told that it is not physical. We see techniques called "henge" used that are demonstratedly physical. We never see techniques called "henge" used that are demonstratedly not. Therefore, the technique called "henge" is canonically physical. Yes, it really is that simple. Primary evidence overrides speculation, always.

You can't just dismiss every piece of direct canon evidence as an exception when you have no direct canon evidence for your own position whatsoever. It doesn't work that way.
 
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Baran3 said:
I never understood what was the utility of those goggles. Something in the manga or anime?
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I've seen several unrelated anime where a character wears goggles on their head and not over their eyes, so it may be a point in Japanese culture that does not get explained for one reason or another.

In Naruto's case, I would expect the reason for having something to be to keep his hair out of his eyes. I would go further to say having available eye protection on demand is often a good thing. However, if they were for eye protection, I would expect he would still be using them, or at least something similar after the first episode...

On the subject of the Henge Technique: If I've said this once, I've said it a thousand times; if the author of a fanfic wants a specific ability, object, spell, device, McGuffin, or whatever to have specific properties, and this disagrees with the original canon, then for the purposes of the specific fanfiction story the Author Wins. Ergo, in this specific case, since the author has described the Henge as an illusion, then in this story it is an illusion.

If you need further justification, then just remember on an individual level Genjutsu are among the most terrifying tings a new ninja would be dealing with, so learning about them, and how to defend against them, would be a priority. Thus having two separate Genjutsu as part of the base curriculum, along with knowing how to break a Genjutsu when needed. In Naruto's case, his education was sabotaged by those that wanted him to die in the field, so he was taught a Ninjutsu instead...

None of this matters in this story, of course. With Naruto's half of the fox dead, there will be virtually no sabotage of his training. Thus he will learn the appropriate Genjutsu as time progresses...
 
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LostArchivist said:
EDIT: *"Its name"
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Thank you, fixed.
arromdee said:
At last you have a main character who can do pranks without worrying that it's out of character.

(Although Kushina being a prankster seems to be fanon. Though common fanon.)
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I'm running with "The Uzumaki as a clan, and Uzushio as a village, were generally pranksters on some level" actually. :V

It comes up more later.
Patrick said:
From what someone put on discord, it's a great risk to fry bacon without proper ventilation (in an apartment), a sensor calibrated to detect pollution in the air marked 800 on a scale of 0 to 900; 0-20 is good air, 100-200 is small grass fire, 800 is the worst day you can imagine in India. So, yep, cooking bacon is a risk.
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It's actually somewhat of an XKCD reference. :V
Baran3 said:
I know you write Yoko looks like Kushina, but, do you think you could post an illustration so that we see what Naruto looks like as a girl?
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You could just look up pictures of Kushina?

Because I'm not an artist. :V
Baran3 said:
Say, you never really named it, did you? Like the original tome in Nanoha?
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I don't have a clue what you're talking about, given that Nanoha has several Tomes with their own names and occasionally alternate names...
Baran3 said:
I never understood what was the utility of those goggles. Something in the manga or anime?
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Jacen1 said:
I've seen several unrelated anime where a character wears goggles on their head and not over their eyes, so it may be a point in Japanese culture that does not get explained for one reason or another.

In Naruto's case, I would expect the reason for having something to be to keep his hair out of his eyes. I would go further to say having available eye protection on demand is often a good thing. However, if they were for eye protection, I would expect he would still be using them, or at least something similar after the first episode...
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In-universe he uses them as eye protection once or twice before graduating.

Externally? They were part of the character design for unstated reasons, but the goggles were too complicated to draw constantly, so the simplified forehead protector was invented to take their place in the character design. Which led to everyone having a forehead protector because only Naruto having one would have been weird...

...and this is from the man who gave them all open-toed shoes because he likes drawing toes.
 
David151 said:
Huh a Naruto/MGLN crossover haven't seen one of these in years not since back when Anime Addventure was still around.
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I remember them, they were a fun and interesting read to have.

Funnier scene I remember was the one in which Sasuke was brushing off Catgirl!Hanabi's bloodthirstiness as "She's a cat.".
 
Say CmptrWz would you say the body training stuff like Yoga & Ballet, gives you, is part of the Ninja body conditioning, in terms of flexibility?
Being able to walk on your toes also means you can make bigger steps when running, by being able to put your feet out more forwards then you could do otherwise, your ankle has then a greater range.
And I can see how being able to sit in a human knot like shape, can be useful in certain other things as well, like say weapon use, for one.
Parkour could be another potential option, there.
It would be bad if you needed to Henge in order to get the needed flexibility in your body, you know.

Add to this that with the full body henge, Naruto has the ability to learn both the male & female side of things.
One thing that could be trained, is (Bo-)staff fighting, enough staff like objects to find around, like a broom, walking staff and so on.
Hunting might also be something for the future, in all forms and can even be expanded to traps and more.

How good would Naruto his book be, in scanning stuff?
Could he say, scan in the entire library, in one go?
What about the restricted Library in the Hokage Tower?
Or the Hospital it's Medical oriented Library?
At least Naruto will be able to cheaply get new books, straight from the bookshop, that should provide a trio of minds, some self relaxation.

Will the Second Hokage his sword & technique scroll be saved?
I can see it becoming the beginnings of a casting device/aid.
Hell, with scanning, they might be able to see the secrets behind all the various Legendary Swords.
Meaning they could thus work on combining them.
 
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Patrick said:
From what someone put on discord, it's a great risk to fry bacon without proper ventilation (in an apartment), a sensor calibrated to detect pollution in the air marked 800 on a scale of 0 to 900; 0-20 is good air, 100-200 is small grass fire, 800 is the worst day you can imagine in India. So, yep, cooking bacon is a risk.
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That's a little misleading.

Oh, it's not good, and I'm not claiming you're wrong. However, those meters only measure particles at a particular size, not healthiness. They will, for instance, also trigger from evaporated water. In fact, some of that 800 value is indeed water vapour*.

That day of 800 pollution in India or London will, however, be pollution based on floating ash, exhaust from cars, etc. etc. These particles are dangerous both chemically—they're literally toxins—and physically, being sharp pieces of debris that can puncture cells in your lungs, and which are difficult for your body to remove. Enough of that, and you get serious damage.

Meanwhile, we've been frying meat long enough to have adaptations. The biggest risk of breathing in bacon fumes is it's mildly carcinogenic; it certainly won't cause physical trauma, and your biology has no trouble cleaning it out.

*: It won't trigger from the vapour itself, only from condensing vapour, which can only happen if there is a temperature difference.
 
CmptrWz said:
Worse, ninety percent of the supposed limitations of the technique come from post-manga "official fanfiction" light novels written by other authors. Your quoted information cites two of them by a single author!
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Say what you will about them, they're still considered officially canon, meaning they're a viable citing source.
Jacen1 said:
None of this matters in this story, of course. With Naruto's half of the fox dead, there will be virtually no sabotage of his training. Thus he will learn the appropriate Genjutsu as time progresses...
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Actually, technically the entire fox is dead.

Remember, the Yin half was sealed into Minato, who's currently residing in the Shinigami's stomach. AKA very dead (does the Shinigami think Kurama tastes like chicken?).

Naruto was only able to get the Yin half in canon because of the impure world resurrection technique (I think that was it's name).
 
edale said:
the impure world resurrection technique (I think that was it's name).
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口寄せ・穢土転生
Or
Kuchiyose: edo tensei

It's explicitly a part of the summoning techniques branch of ninjutsu within the Naruto universe. Orochimaru used some shenanigans to free the yin half of Kurama, Minato, and Hiruzen from the shinigami before using the technique. Most souls in the Naruto universe just go on to the afterlife. Some stick around in limbo (Kakashi's father), some become ghosts, but most just go to the afterlife and/or get reincarnated.
 
goku90504 said:
what is this magic and where can I get access?
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Well, to get access to the magic, you have to start by joining the Taylor Varga discord - check out CmptrWz or mp3.1415player's sigs for the link. Next, you do a search in the #author_announcements channel for the magic words, sort through a few false leads, and you find that CmptrWz has some beta docs available on Google Doc.
 
re: the catgirl!Hanabi story, it was written by Greyff/Nimodes but was deleted due to large amounts of flaming/complaining/threatening behaviour in the reviews.
HOWEVER!
It just happened to be saved and has been reposted by another author with a note that should Greyff/Nimodes either repost it himself or request its deletion, it'll be gone. Just like that.

In the meantime, you can find it on FFN under the title of Greyff's Mischief Fragment Mjolnir.
 
OstermanA said:
Personally, I suspect the real reason Henge isn't used more often is because Kishimoto can't world build, with a patch in the form of making it so that holding a henge disrupts ones chakra enough to make other things difficult, and by the time they have reserves able to hold it for any meaningful amount of time they have better options.
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You do have a point. I think a large part of the reason Kishimoto used Henge the way he did was simpler. It's not used more due to the medium the story is written in. In most anime I have seen that have some sort of disguise magic/technique they show a "shadow" of the real person so people watching can keep track who is who. In a manga that's a lot harder to do and would be confusing for multiple people show using it often.


As for physical vs Illusion transformation or not. In this story, I agree it's up to CmptrWz to decide as he needs to tell the story.

There are several times I agree Naruto's transformation is definitely shown as physical. Gamabunta needing to transform to the fox because it's better than a toad to hold onto the 1 tail means it was physical. Gamabunta would not appear to have a way to know that Naruto is able to do a special henge.

Even with that said I can see why people lean towards it being more a Genjutsu. That falls more in line with the other academy three if nothing else. Presumably as the lowest rank of technique it need very little chakra and more control.

Illusionary clone - Illusion looking like you
substitution - Illusion looking like you until damage breaks it showing an Object/Log you replaced yourself with
transformation - Illusion looking like you? or physically creating a shell of real matter that can touched.

That last one would seem to take far more energy if nothing else
 
arromdee said:
(Although Kushina being a prankster seems to be fanon. Though common fanon.)
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Getting into shenanigans with your kid is a pretty solid mode of paternal bonding. Even if Kushina wasn't a prankster before, if it means having fun with her son (who has been severely neglected and that's tripping maternal instincts left right and center even discounting potential Device fuckery screwing with her personality matrix) you can bet Mama Tomata is gonna help prank the shit out of some people.
 
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Hmm, Gotta say I've never considered a Naruto/MGLN story before, and considering who's writing it? Definitely watching this thread.
 
What the heck is with Orange Sky's Field Healing Report?

Did the Tome really just yank Minato and half of the bloody Fox from the Shinigami's stomach -- likely at the time between the Mortal Plain, Pure World and Impure World?

And were any of the "limiting nets" physical/mental inhibitors (why would the son of two exceptionally Intelligent people be idiotic but not enough so to not be able to 'hack it' in the military?).

Intelligence limiting Seals of course (usually put there by a Hyuga, wanting him too stupid to be attractive to Hinata)/Fanon
 
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