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Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)

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draconas said:
Unfortunately, Kaguya being fully dead is probably a bad thing.
With her fully dead, they can use Impure World Reincarnation to bring her back much easier than their old plan. And while, similar to Madara's Rinnegan, she probably wouldn't be at full power, she'd also be unsealable because her summoning could just be canceled and redone to remove her from imprisonment.
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From what we saw in canon, the way IWR interacts with the subject being sealed is the exact opposite of that. Sealing the target prevents them from being summoned again because even after the IWR ends, their soul is still locked in the seal, where IWR can't reach. The problem is actually that there aren't many sealing techniques in canon that can be used on a human soul in the first place, especially the soul of a human whom is currently fighting you. The only one we see is the Reaper Death Seal, and that one is no longer functional in this fic.
 
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JadeKaiser said:
From what we saw in canon, the way IWR interacts with the subject being sealed is the exact opposite of that. Sealing the target prevents them from being summoned again because even after the IWR ends, their soul is still locked in the seal, where IWR can't reach. The problem is actually that there aren't many sealing techniques in canon that can be used on a human soul in the first place, especially the soul of a human whom is currently fighting you. The only one we see is the Reaper Death Seal, and that one is no longer functional in this fic.
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I know, I meant the whole sealing her in the moon thing.
That's what they used on her before, and it won't work now.
Especially without the shinigami, and them never using the Reaper Death Seal on her in canon …for some reason. Maybe an ablative layer of Zetsu Souls or something.
 
DestinyPlayer said:
Isn't Edo Tensei no longer functional because the Shinigami mask was broken?
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The Edo Tensei\Impure World Reincarnation does not have anything to do with the Shinigami, save that if someone's soul is in the Shinigami's stomach it cannot be summoned by by the technique.

draconas said:
Unfortunately, Kaguya being fully dead is probably a bad thing.
With her fully dead, they can use Impure World Reincarnation to bring her back much easier than their old plan. And while, similar to Madara's Rinnegan, she probably wouldn't be at full power, she'd also be unsealable because her summoning could just be canceled and redone to remove her from imprisonment.
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Nah, sealing a reincarnated person does prevent them from being resummoned; that's why they seal the reincarnates in canon.

The Impure World Reincarnation is a summoning technique; it summons the soul of a deceased person into the body of a sacrifice. If the soul in question is sealed in some manner then it cannot be summoned, and there are plenty of ways to seal people.

Sealing souls on their own is rarer, but once a person has been reincarnated you can just seal their 'new' body with the soul still in it.


e:
Sealing the body doesn't prevent the user from ending the technique entirely, sending all the reincarnated souls back to the Pure Land, and then doing it again from scratch. But that isn't really viable for re-summoning sealed dudes most of the time.

jmcdavid said:
Small problem with that: Edo Tensei requires a sample of the target's DNA.

Where's Zetsu gonna get that from?
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Black Zetsu is a piece of Kaguya in some manner, so he can probably use himself.

Furthermore, even if not, the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path definitely should work; as Kaguya physically merged with the God Tree, meaning her biological data should be in there.
 
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Considering she's sealed inside the moon, unless she can be unsealed she can't be reincarnated if being sealed prevents such a technique from working.

So the question becomes, can she be unsealed without using the ten tails chakra? Because with three of the bijuu dead, they can't re-assemble the ten tailed beast to access it's chakra. Can they break open the moon without that source of power?

I somehow suspect the answer is no.

Also, if the argument is that the ten tailed beast is (or contains) her soul, then killing the components of the beast (the bijuu) is destroying her soul, making reincarnation impossible as well. Remember, the Tome doesn't contain the souls of the beasts it absorbed, it has A.I.s based on the minds of the beasts. Not remotely the same thing.
 
Jacen1 said:
Considering she's sealed inside the moon, unless she can be unsealed she can't be reincarnated if being sealed prevents such a technique from working.
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Unfortunately she isn't sealed inside the moon anymore, not since Madara activated the Rinnegan and used it to break the seals and summon the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path.

I believe at this point in the timeline the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path is hanging out in Madara's secret cave, sitting on the flower at the top of the Hashirama tree.


e: Oh, and I just checked the wiki; apparently the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path does have Chakra, and its Chakra is what kept Madara alive long past his natural lifespan. Which means either Hagoromo didn't actually get all of the Ten-Tails' Chakra, or he did and it has done a tree and since recovered some Chakra.

So yeah its totally not dead.

Jacen1 said:
Also, if the argument is that the ten tailed beast is (or contains) her soul, then killing the components of the beast (the bijuu) is destroying her soul, making reincarnation impossible as well. Remember, the Tome doesn't contain the souls of the beasts it absorbed, it has A.I.s based on the minds of the beasts. Not remotely the same thing.
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Tailed Beasts don't have souls, they are living masses of Chakra, or their Chakra is their soul.

Humans do have souls however, and they are not part of their Chakra. Destroying a human's Chakra has no impact on their soul, beyond probably killing their body and thus releasing said soul into the Pure Land.

If anything, the Ten Tails is now gone for good and all that is left inside the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path is Kaguya's soul, meaning that if it ever gathers enough Chakra to emerge from whatever hibernation state it is currently in, Kaguya would be revived without the Ten Tails' madness.

(On the other hand, without the Tailed Beasts this is probably something that will take at least a thousand years to happen at the absolute minimum.)
 
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CmptrWz said:
Why so many discounted the strength and intelligence of females was beyond him, but it did make it easier to pick out the idiot males.
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Orochimaru, it is because you, having trained at Tsunade's side, know perfectly well what a well trained kunoichi is able to do, others more often than not don't.


CmptrWz said:
They couldn't even blame Orochimaru for not seeing this coming because who would've thought that a long-dead village wasn't actually dead?
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Fair enough.


CmptrWz said:
...Nagato, admittedly, had repeatedly questioned if there might be some true survivors of the destruction of Uzushio instead of the scattered remnants around the elemental nations.
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And Nagato proves to have functioning brains.
 
CmptrWz said:
A minute was given for the murmuring about that to die down before Old Man Hokage continued. "Those paying attention will notice that there are three genin with animal features present in the arena. The other two are Hinata Hyuga and Naruto Uzumaki, who are not Sasuke's teammates. Rumor of a plot to use a tailed beast against Konoha reached remnants of Uzushiogakure, and they took it upon themselves to ensure that it wouldn't happen by removing the threat. At the time the one-tail and two-tails were in the village, so the squad of Uzu remnants removed both of them from their jinchuriki. Gaara of Suna was one of those, undeclared at time of arrival, and I personally took responsibility for his tailed beast being removed and sent reparations to Suna. Yugito Nii of Kumo was the other, but the Raikage insisted that no reparations need be paid. More important is that the Uzu remnants have since learned how to kill tailed beasts and bound elements of their remains to the two Konoha genin."
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I find it hilarious that every word of this explanation/cover story is the unvarnished truth. Kushina and Naruto arguably are remnants of Uzushiogakure. Between them, Minato, and the clones, it was most definitely an Uzu squad that did the deed.
 
draconas said:
With her fully dead, they can use Impure World Reincarnation to bring her back much easier than their old plan. And while, similar to Madara's Rinnegan, she probably wouldn't be at full power, she'd also be unsealable because her summoning could just be canceled and redone to remove her from imprisonment.
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shit needs the DNA of whoever they're making a zombie from to get the Jutsu to work so you wrong
jmcdavid said:
Small problem with that: Edo Tensei requires a sample of the target's DNA.

Where's Zetsu gonna get that from?
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what JMC said
Wyrd said:
There's a good chance it's in the Statue of the Outer Path, aka the corpse of the Juubi, aka Kaguya fused with Tree.
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Pretty sure the bits that're Kaguya are buried pretty deep in there
Balrog said:
:rofl:....:evil:
------Decades Ago------
Anbu 1: "Right so are we agreed on the rules?"
Anbu 2: "We throw the drunken idiot from on top of the Hokage Monument." "mmf mmf mmmff!"
Anbu 3: "The drunken idiot has to survive." "mmf mmf mmmff!"
Anbu 4: "Only shinobi can be thrown, no civilians." "mmf mmf mmmff!"
Anbu 5: "The one to throw the furthest drunken idiot that survives wins." "mmf mmf mmmff!"
Anbu 6: "The winner gets bragging rights and doesn't pay for drinks for a week." "mmf mmf mmmff!"
Anbu 1: " Ok who goes first?" "mmf mmf mmmff!"

Edit: the ("mmf mmf mmmff!") off to the side is the drunk idiots trying to abject to being thrown they are gagged.
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This is canon to me
MWKillKenny84 said:
Orochimaru, it is because you, having trained at Tsunade's side, know perfectly well what a well trained kunoichi is able to do, others more often than not don't.
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And Hiruzen Sarutobi doesn't train sexist idiots (would've just wrote idiots but that would mean Jiraiya would get excluded and look at where he is now)
 
Ardenzian said:
And Hiruzen Sarutobi doesn't train sexist idiots (would've just wrote idiots but that would mean Jiraiya would get excluded and look at where he is now)
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Fair to be fair to Jiraya, apart his onscreen peeping tom habits (and in Shippunden we learned that said habit had resulted in Tsunade beating him to nearly death) he seems of the category "Look but do not touch without consent", seeing as he had been perfectly able to train a kunoichi without doing any perverted antics (see Konan).
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
seeing as he had been perfectly able to train a kunoichi without doing any perverted antics (see Konan).
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Granted, it's debatable given her age while he was training her, all that really proves is that he isn't a pedophile as unlike Naruto's sexy jutsu where it at least looks like a fully grown woman it would be far closer to if he were perving on Sakura, so we can't really say how things would have gone had they been 5-6 years older when he found them.
 
CmptrWz said:
"There's an Anbu asshole-launching leaderboard?"
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...The ninja world is mostly a horrible deathworld, but they do have perks.
draconas said:
Unfortunately, Kaguya being fully dead is probably a bad thing.
With her fully dead, they can use Impure World Reincarnation to bring her back much easier than their old plan.
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IIRC, an earlier event somehow broke IWR for good, (the Shinigami mask was broken when Kurama got nom'd), so she's not coming back if dead.
On the other hand, the Shinigami may have been artificial, so perhaps it's now easier to bring people back if you don't need to feed it?
 
LostArchivist said:
...The ninja world is mostly a horrible deathworld, but they do have perks.
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As with many things in Ninja History, the overall winner has to be the Otsutsuki Twins, Hamura and Hagoromo.

They launched their target so far that it went into orbit, and Madara had to summon it back down, centuries later.

LostArchivist said:
IIRC, an earlier event somehow broke IWR for good, (the Shinigami mask was broken when Kurama got nom'd), so she's not coming back if dead.
On the other hand, the Shinigami may have been artificial, so perhaps it's now easier to bring people back if you don't need to feed it?
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The Shinigami Mask was tied to the Dead Consuming Seal (3 versions: 2 that seal things in different ways, and a "debug" version to check it works without killing yourself), but not to the Impure World Resurrection.

So, she could come back. But with the Tome able to devour nodes on the Resurrection Net, and permanently destroy them, her motivation will suddenly matter; for example, if her desire to reclaim all chakra was a case of "I need that power to protect this world — and myself — from invasion by other Otsutsuki!", and Naruto is walking around with the ultimate anti-Otsutsuki weapon, then she could go either way: either "I Must Have That Tome!", or "Ah! Time for my well-deserved retirement! What do you mean, it's not well-deserved? It totally is!"
 
ltmauve said:
Assuming an Earth-Moon system like our own and 1,000 years in orbit, they get a whopping distance of 32 trillion meters.
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Also, some serious geometry questions. A single impulse can't throw something into a repeatable orbit from the ground - the orbit achieved will always come back down to the level the object was thrown from. You need something else to happen to raise the periapsis later in the flight...
 
Aineko said:
Also, some serious geometry questions. A single impulse can't throw something into a repeatable orbit from the ground - the orbit achieved will always come back down to the level the object was thrown from. You need something else to happen to raise the periapsis later in the flight...
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Ya mean like Almighty Push and Universal Pull? those abilities were pretty powerful when Nagato was using them through a remote-controlled corpse. Imagine how much more powerful and long-ranged they could be in the hands of the Ootsuki
 
Chronocidal said:
but not to the Impure World Resurrection.
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Point of order, the original Edo Tensei, you know the one Orochimaru used here in canon, didn't summon the person permanently. That feature was only present in the modified version, which Kabuto isn't here to modify, so it will take a bit longer for Kaguya to return.
 
USRTS said:
Point of order, the original Edo Tensei, you know the one Orochimaru used here in canon, didn't summon the person permanently. That feature was only present in the modified version, which Kabuto isn't here to modify, so it will take a bit longer for Kaguya to return.
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And that's going to be irrelevant if Orochimaru dies. Which is pretty damn likely.

Let's see here. Sarutobi has been shaking off the rust, IIRC. What's more, A is going to also be in the Kage Box, and he's got to be pretty damn pissed off that Orochimaru was holding Yugito's life hostage to make him comply. And A is still extremely fit himself.

Meanwhile, Orochimaru has lost access to summoning, which is a massive handicap for him due to how many of his techniques involve it. Kusanagi has been stolen, so even with summoning he can't use it. And most damning of all, the above loss of summoning locks him out of using Edo Tensei.

Yeah, I think the snake might be doomed if he tries to launch the invasion.
 
jmcdavid said:
And that's going to be irrelevant if Orochimaru dies. Which is pretty damn likely.

Let's see here. Sarutobi has been shaking off the rust, IIRC. What's more, A is going to also be in the Kage Box, and he's got to be pretty damn pissed off that Orochimaru was holding Yugito's life hostage to make him comply. And A is still extremely fit himself.

Meanwhile, Orochimaru has lost access to summoning, which is a massive handicap for him due to how many of his techniques involve it. Kusanagi has been stolen, so even with summoning he can't use it. And most damning of all, the above loss of summoning locks him out of using Edo Tensei.

Yeah, I think the snake might be doomed if he tries to launch the invasion.
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He knows some of the changes and is specifically making adaptations.

He isn't going to win but it won't be remotely like canon on any side.
 
jmcdavid said:
Yeah, I think the snake might be doomed if he tries to launch the invasion.
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He was doomed the moment he thought that Konoha wasn't going to fix what was shown to be wrong with their defenses with the "Hidden Laboratory Zombies." I will wait to see what's up with Tsunade, but it is looking like the Sannin are a bunch of old geezers...wait. . .how old are they in canon again?
 
I believe in Canon the Sannin are considered to be in their 50's at the beginning of Naruto with Hiruzen being in his 70's, which is absolutely ancient by Shinobi standards.
 
USRTS said:
He was doomed the moment he thought that Konoha wasn't going to fix what was shown to be wrong with their defenses with the "Hidden Laboratory Zombies." I will wait to see what's up with Tsunade, but it is looking like the Sannin are a bunch of old geezers...wait. . .how old are they in canon again?
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He has yet to pass the point of no return. He's already sorting tiered backup plans in his head while processing info. Since he has no Tailed Beasts to deploy and nobody who can Genjutsu the whole stadium at once, the invasion will not kick off during the tournament, but afterward. He's aware of the possibility that the anti-summoning effect extends well beyond the village walls so summoning the giant snake is already off the table, his forces will insert in small groups all along the length of the walls instead of the canon method of entering through the hole the giant snake would have made. He is also aware that the Raikage is not going to be on his side so he's using a plan that doesn't depend on Hidden Cloud's forces. Since he's not planning to start the invasion until after the tournament, he still has time to call off the whole invasion, exfiltrate his forces, and come back later with a new plan once he's fully analyzed all the updated info on Konoha's defenses.
 
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