How big of a fire jutsu would we have to fire into the sky so that Jiraya notices it from several kilometres away do you think?
Tohsaka as an Uchiha Quest (Naruto/FSN)
- Thread starter AoMythology
- Start date
- Crossover
How big of a fire jutsu would we have to fire into the sky so that Jiraya notices it from several kilometres away do you think?
[x]Humor him and reply truthfully
-[x]Making a world where creeps like him or Danzo can't happen and can't betray their teams for absolutely nothing except to die alone.
[x]Run away
-[x]You don't abandon comrades or family. Take both
[x]Write-in: provoke Orochimaru to get nearer where Jiraiya was travelling and when one of the party is caught, fight so a sensor and a sage would notice. Delay until Jyraiya, Naruto, and maybe Tsunade appear. If possible try to bait Oroegomanic into flashing a large signature ninjutsu technique to 'test your eyes'.
-[x]Making a world where creeps like him or Danzo can't happen and can't betray their teams for absolutely nothing except to die alone.
[x]Run away
-[x]You don't abandon comrades or family. Take both
[x]Write-in: provoke Orochimaru to get nearer where Jiraiya was travelling and when one of the party is caught, fight so a sensor and a sage would notice. Delay until Jyraiya, Naruto, and maybe Tsunade appear. If possible try to bait Oroegomanic into flashing a large signature ninjutsu technique to 'test your eyes'.
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AoMythology
AoM, Destroyer of Worlds
- Location
- Greece
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Don't forget that, while Naruto may have the potential to be a natural sensor according to the 4th Databook, he does not possess enough Chakra Control to take advantage of it, to the point even Rin and the Third haven't realized anything about that.
Edit: might edit in something about Rin noticing something now, though.
Edit 2:
Edit: might edit in something about Rin noticing something now, though.
Edit 2:
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It was also Sasuke. And, well, it's worth mentioning that by that point, Sasuke and Itachi were the only Uchiha left in the world (not counting Tobi, for obvious reasons).
Regardless, I think our best bet is to just shoot our biggest Great Fireball directly into the sky. No way Jiraiya could miss that, right? Otherwise, it's to take Karin and run/carry her in the last direction we saw Jiraiya go, as fast as we can possibly go.
AoMythology
AoM, Destroyer of Worlds
- Location
- Greece
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
@SaltyWaffles : Note that you (Rin) are perfectly capable of putting Wind Chakra into or fusing a Wind ninjutsu with your A- rank Great Fireball. Make of that what you will.
- Location
- Germany
As I see it, we have two options: S+++ rank diplomacy or B+ rank Body Flickerto get the hell away with Karin.
... Ninja'd.
I'd suggest we let Kakashi delay Orochimaru, flicker away, and have a plan ready for the clones he's guaranteed to send after us.
... Ninja'd.
I'm pretty sure that he has no interest in killing Kakashi right now, it wouldn't advance any of his plans.
I'd suggest we let Kakashi delay Orochimaru, flicker away, and have a plan ready for the clones he's guaranteed to send after us.
Those don't work well together, and showing any skill with senjutsu (which is what ninja interpret magecraft as) would cause Orochimaru to hound us for the rest of our life.
Same issue. We don't want to show off anything that no other Uchiha can do, since that would cause him to focus on putting his curse mark on us.
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- Location
- Germany
Currently, he just wants "an Uchiha" and we're one of around fourty survivors who doesn't even have a Mangekyo Sharingan. He's interested, but he has enough alternatives that he won't try too hard yet.
If we show off senjutsu or seamless jutsu fusion, something he himself hasn't managed? Our body will be his number 1 priority.
Nothing we or Kakashi can do has any chance of stopping him if he goes 100%. We simply can't afford that. The only way to get out of this encounter without a cursed seal is if we don't rouse him out of his general apathy for anything that isn't scientifically intriguing enough.
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- Location
- Germany
The best target would be an Uchiha with the Mangekyo whose dream of revenge makes him easily controllable.
We are currently high up on his list, but he hasn't scouted all potential candidates, and with both Itachi and Sasuke being prodigies, I think he'd observe a bit longer before focusing on marking a future body.
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
since Orochimaru's new character page has this little pearl:
I think we can assume Rin actually is fairly high on his list.
- Location
- Germany
My preliminary suggestion:
[X] Plan Retreat towards Jiraiya
-[X] Run away
--[X] Take Karin with you
--[X] While it pains you to leave Kakashi behind, staying would just force him to defend you and fleeing with him would give Orochimaru the chance to pick you off one by one. Additionally, he is your superior and he gave you an order.
-[X] Release a massive smoke cloud (Hiding in Smoke jutsu), seemingly to cover your retreat but actually to alert Jiraiya. Try not to cover Kakashi, the chakra might hinder his sharingan-enhanced sight.
-[X] If you can contact Shisui's spirit, now would be a really good time if he could assist you with his legendary skill at the Body Flicker.
-[X] Try to find Jiraya.
-[X] Assume that while Orochimaru himself will fight Kakashi, he'll send clones after you.
--[X] From what you know about him he's like an amoral magus who would just try harder to catch you for your secrets. Not showing those of our abilities that would most catch his interest is preferred, but you'll do it if the sole other alternative is death or permanent harm of anyone on our side.
--[X] Likely attention-grabbing skills, from least to most important: Seamless Jutsu Fusion, Average One, and Magecraft. That said, we may not get around showing Average One since he knows all five elements too, and we might have difficulty defending against that without using Type Advantage.
--[X] Conserving energy is not a high priority. Take a chakra pill if you need to, but you only need to last long enough for Jiraya to join the fight and for Kakashi to take over protecting you and Karin. Keep your Sharingan active, and unless his clones are entirely undetectable, do the same for your sensor skills.
--[X] Clones by themselves are worthless since he'll immediately see through the ruse and dismiss them as threats, but you might be able to exploit that with the Clone Great Explosion jutsu.
--[X] Our highest combat skill is Genjutsu, but we're not at the point of casting them without hand seals. It's worth a try, but don't expect to catch him in one for very long, especially not if he sees it coming. Instead, try to keep the two of you away from him, and keep him busy with thrown weapons and ranged jutsu.
Edit:
Edit 2:
Incorporated Gnarker's ideas.
[X] Plan Retreat towards Jiraiya
-[X] Run away
--[X] Take Karin with you
--[X] While it pains you to leave Kakashi behind, staying would just force him to defend you and fleeing with him would give Orochimaru the chance to pick you off one by one. Additionally, he is your superior and he gave you an order.
-[X] Release a massive smoke cloud (Hiding in Smoke jutsu), seemingly to cover your retreat but actually to alert Jiraiya. Try not to cover Kakashi, the chakra might hinder his sharingan-enhanced sight.
-[X] If you can contact Shisui's spirit, now would be a really good time if he could assist you with his legendary skill at the Body Flicker.
-[X] Try to find Jiraya.
-[X] Assume that while Orochimaru himself will fight Kakashi, he'll send clones after you.
--[X] From what you know about him he's like an amoral magus who would just try harder to catch you for your secrets. Not showing those of our abilities that would most catch his interest is preferred, but you'll do it if the sole other alternative is death or permanent harm of anyone on our side.
--[X] Likely attention-grabbing skills, from least to most important: Seamless Jutsu Fusion, Average One, and Magecraft. That said, we may not get around showing Average One since he knows all five elements too, and we might have difficulty defending against that without using Type Advantage.
--[X] Conserving energy is not a high priority. Take a chakra pill if you need to, but you only need to last long enough for Jiraya to join the fight and for Kakashi to take over protecting you and Karin. Keep your Sharingan active, and unless his clones are entirely undetectable, do the same for your sensor skills.
--[X] Clones by themselves are worthless since he'll immediately see through the ruse and dismiss them as threats, but you might be able to exploit that with the Clone Great Explosion jutsu.
--[X] Our highest combat skill is Genjutsu, but we're not at the point of casting them without hand seals. It's worth a try, but don't expect to catch him in one for very long, especially not if he sees it coming. Instead, try to keep the two of you away from him, and keep him busy with thrown weapons and ranged jutsu.
Edit:
Changed to plan format.
Edit 2:
Incorporated Gnarker's ideas.
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There are several problems with that plan. One of them is the weird 'contact shisui spirit thing' but whatever. The other is limiting yourself for no good reason.
Finally the last, is the hiding in the mist jutsu blinds the sharingan. It was used literally for that purpose in the first Kakashi battle in the manga and anime so you're basically lowering Kakashi odds of survival and even if you weren't the bio of Oro in this quest notes he knows powerful variants of great breakthrough (and, you know, the canon chunnin exams)...
Also several snakes hunt by vibrations.
Finally the last, is the hiding in the mist jutsu blinds the sharingan. It was used literally for that purpose in the first Kakashi battle in the manga and anime so you're basically lowering Kakashi odds of survival and even if you weren't the bio of Oro in this quest notes he knows powerful variants of great breakthrough (and, you know, the canon chunnin exams)...
Also several snakes hunt by vibrations.
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But not on the Grab Now list yet, because she's young, she's not shown a history of going into suicidal risks, and has a reasonably efficient training regime, so he could wait for her to trigger Mangekyou first or something.
- Location
- Germany
Rin can contact spirits as seen with Hollow, and thanks to the crow with Shisui's eyes which Itachi implanted into us serving as a medium, we already talked to him once:
Essentially, trying to ask for help doesn't cost us anything, so why wouldn't we try?
I consider "Orochimaru gets serious" an absolute loss condition. Once he does, there's no way we're escaping without his curse mark, if we escape at all.
Nitpick: We're not using hiding in mist, it's hiding in smoke. That said, it's still chakra, so your argument would still apply - if we were covering the battlefield. However, that's not quite what we're doing. We're covering our retreat and blowing out enough chakra-rich smoke that Jiraiya notices. The latter is the most important part as the plan name implies.
I might add a clause not to cover Kakashi's position, though. It doesn't hurt to be cautious.
Why would Orochimaru genuinely try to kill Kakashi? That advances neither his plans nor his research. At best, he'd get a single Sharingan without a body that can properly use it.
A powerful wind jutsu like that would help with our goal of getting Jiraiya to race towards us, and those snakes shouldn't be able to keep up with our Body Flicker. And again, the smoke cloud doesn't need to hold up to Orochimaru's repertoire, it only needs to be a believable reaction.
See i tend to think of narrative 'laws' when thinking about story. You may proclaim your intent to minimize Oro attention, may say it's not a 'certain' thing if you take measured steps.
But... Doylist trumps Watsonian every time as far as deduction.
Danzo is out of the picture and the story needs a new antagonist. Orochimaru is right there with more than sufficient motivation already, ergo, ipso facto, you're getting Oro bothering Rin or her allies (just as bad). Now this will probably not end here (though it would be a nice climax if the rest of his team captured or eliminated him), so you're right the story will present this as a ongoing concern, but it would happen anyway.
Don't hold back. At best you avoid a 'Grass' arc where Rin is kidnapped and eventually escapes or kills Orochimaru, at worst you get the same conflict you're trying to avoid happen anyway with maybe a ally killed. I wouldn't be too worried about being kidnapped immediately with the best village tracker, the best healer and the best spymaster all in a 20 km range and most with a interest in Rin's wellbeing.
I'm also not impressed with 'don't cover kakashi' when he's going to go in the fog of his own will to protect the 'children' or Orochimaru leave if you leave. That is a Watsonian argument for you.
We both agree that waiting for a Jiraiya interrupt is best which is the essence of the vote. I just think you should
1. don't hobble yourself or your allies.
2. get back faster to Jiraiya as a group and warn him of the battle as soon as possible.
3. Needle Orochimaru on his weakpoint (his gigantic ego)with your only S-rank skill (diplomacy). This is in direct opposition to not calling attention to yourself
I believe the best way to have good results is not bother to direct the vote into micro-management of a character the story says is a natural genius in the company of another natural genius against another natural genius. I'll give you that the hiding in the mist jutsu wouldn't look like it was a sign, but i'd prefer something that doesn't have a obvious detriment to both Kakashi and Rin.
So no jutsu votes.
The only things i'm not certain will go well in my plan is any attempt to make Kakashi cooperate with a fighting retreat, but Rin can probably convince that self-sacrificing moron by reminding him Orochimaru knows shadowclone too; and disguising that we're retreating to someone or calling the attention of someone, since Oro is a EX intelligence character. That's also what the shittalking is for, and why i refuse to specify jutsu.
Rin may very well decide the best way is to be carried by Kakashi in a 'retreat' and use the 2nd True Magic as a effectively infinite chakra replacement for a absurd volume of fireballs to their back. I don't want to second guess or clumsly guide the QM to a worse result than what he thinks is possible.
But... Doylist trumps Watsonian every time as far as deduction.
Danzo is out of the picture and the story needs a new antagonist. Orochimaru is right there with more than sufficient motivation already, ergo, ipso facto, you're getting Oro bothering Rin or her allies (just as bad). Now this will probably not end here (though it would be a nice climax if the rest of his team captured or eliminated him), so you're right the story will present this as a ongoing concern, but it would happen anyway.
Don't hold back. At best you avoid a 'Grass' arc where Rin is kidnapped and eventually escapes or kills Orochimaru, at worst you get the same conflict you're trying to avoid happen anyway with maybe a ally killed. I wouldn't be too worried about being kidnapped immediately with the best village tracker, the best healer and the best spymaster all in a 20 km range and most with a interest in Rin's wellbeing.
I'm also not impressed with 'don't cover kakashi' when he's going to go in the fog of his own will to protect the 'children' or Orochimaru leave if you leave. That is a Watsonian argument for you.
We both agree that waiting for a Jiraiya interrupt is best which is the essence of the vote. I just think you should
1. don't hobble yourself or your allies.
2. get back faster to Jiraiya as a group and warn him of the battle as soon as possible.
3. Needle Orochimaru on his weakpoint (his gigantic ego)with your only S-rank skill (diplomacy). This is in direct opposition to not calling attention to yourself
I believe the best way to have good results is not bother to direct the vote into micro-management of a character the story says is a natural genius in the company of another natural genius against another natural genius. I'll give you that the hiding in the mist jutsu wouldn't look like it was a sign, but i'd prefer something that doesn't have a obvious detriment to both Kakashi and Rin.
So no jutsu votes.
The only things i'm not certain will go well in my plan is any attempt to make Kakashi cooperate with a fighting retreat, but Rin can probably convince that self-sacrificing moron by reminding him Orochimaru knows shadowclone too; and disguising that we're retreating to someone or calling the attention of someone, since Oro is a EX intelligence character. That's also what the shittalking is for, and why i refuse to specify jutsu.
Rin may very well decide the best way is to be carried by Kakashi in a 'retreat' and use the 2nd True Magic as a effectively infinite chakra replacement for a absurd volume of fireballs to their back. I don't want to second guess or clumsly guide the QM to a worse result than what he thinks is possible.
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IDK, can anyone think of a good way to alert Jiraiya subtly?
Fighting is increadibly risky. We won't last more than a short while unless he is just fucking with us, which with his teammate so close he logically shouldn't. Hurling insults isn't going to do anything but piss him off.
An ideal situation is one where Jiraiya comes back while we keep Oroshimaru busy with talk-no-jutsu.
Failing that, if this can be resolved with talking only, that would be good. It depends on whether or not Orochimaru is here for us specifically. This seems more opportunistic to me? The way it's worded, it seems like he wasn't expecting to meet this particular group.
Edit: Could we potentially Genjutsu Karin and get her to grab Jiraiya?
Fighting is increadibly risky. We won't last more than a short while unless he is just fucking with us, which with his teammate so close he logically shouldn't. Hurling insults isn't going to do anything but piss him off.
An ideal situation is one where Jiraiya comes back while we keep Oroshimaru busy with talk-no-jutsu.
Failing that, if this can be resolved with talking only, that would be good. It depends on whether or not Orochimaru is here for us specifically. This seems more opportunistic to me? The way it's worded, it seems like he wasn't expecting to meet this particular group.
Edit: Could we potentially Genjutsu Karin and get her to grab Jiraiya?
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AoMythology
AoM, Destroyer of Worlds
- Location
- Greece
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
@Asael
Your Sharingan is at 2+2 tomoe. You need at least 3+2 to cast genjutsu without hand-seals, and your particular Sharingan needs much longer eye contact than Itachi or Shisui, or even Sasuke anyway, so no subtlety regardless.
(I don't care if Sarada could do it with 1+1 tomoe - the Sharingan is overpowered enough in part 1&2 canon).
Your Sharingan is at 2+2 tomoe. You need at least 3+2 to cast genjutsu without hand-seals, and your particular Sharingan needs much longer eye contact than Itachi or Shisui, or even Sasuke anyway, so no subtlety regardless.
(I don't care if Sarada could do it with 1+1 tomoe - the Sharingan is overpowered enough in part 1&2 canon).
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- Location
- Germany
The most subtle signal I could think of was the plume of smoke obfuscated as "trying to cover our retreat". Orochimaru is just too perceptive not to notice everything we try, so our only chance to hide what we're doing is to give him another explanation for our actions.
Do you refer to my plan with that? Because AoMythology explicitly stated that our plans need to include "what if we can't avoid a fight" contingencies.
That's why my plan focuses on retreating, but also has thoughts on how to deal with the clones he's probably going to send after us.
That would be nice, yes, but any signal we send out would be immediately noticed by Orochimaru, and with Intelligence EX he'd know that there has to be another kage-level ninja around, and he'd stop delaying.
He is here specifically for Karin because he needs an Uzumaki (see the note in the character sheet) and would see us as a superior substitute.
My personal analysis of the situation is that he would be content to let us both develop for a few years to see our potential (there's about 40 Uchiha and 3 Uzumaki to choose from and we don't even have the MS yet), so he won't try too hard to mark us as long as we don't reveal any unique capabilities, like magecraft.
Of course, "not too hard" is still far beyond our level. I'd give us a 20% chance to escape without his mark.
Omakes to get a luck boost would be really helpful in the current situation...
Not sure whether I'll have the time to contribute one since I'm a pretty slow writer when it comes to prose, but I'll try.
Would be great if I'm not the only one trying, tough.
@AoMythology, would an omake from Orochimaru's perspective be okay or interfere with what you're planning?
Not only would Orochimaru be guaranteed to notice, Jiraiya has no reason to trust Karin which would cost us valuable time to resolve.
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Smoke bombs are not subtle at all. Not to mention, unless it trails high in the sky it's not gonna work. The smoke bombs used in the show dissipate way to quickly, usually.
Besides, if we're going THAT far, we might as well say fuck subtle and detonate an exploding tag. Jiraiya would definitely notice that.
The problem is that fighting is a losing proposition. Karin at this point is basically a non-combatant. Kakashi isn't going to be able to shelter both of us.
Edit: Even if it did trail high like signal smoke, Jiraya would have to be looking in the right direction to see it. No guarantee of that.
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