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Thor: Ragnarok

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Jace911 said:
If burying Hela for god knows how many years until she came back and fucked Asgard upside and down is "confronting his past" I would hate to see what avoiding it looks like!



Since you seem to be so fond of British colonialism how do you feel about the American Revolution?
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How would you have dealt with an immortal daughter who could only be killed by Ragnarok?

As for the American Revolution... British colonialism is the foundation of the United States. Without it, the world would be a much different...and probably much worse...place.
 
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Mark said:
He managed to turn the good guys into bad guys so when they got destroyed he could dance around and pat himself on the back for it.

Why doesn't somebody just write a movie about the Maori and make them Nazis so then you could justify wiping them out?

That's not how it's supposed to work.... you can't just alter the backstory to fit what you want. That's what annoys me the most he had an agenda walking into this and he decided to alter the backstory of the characters to convey a political message.
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The movie was called "Thor: Ragnarok." The setting and characters were based off of Norse Mythology, where pretty much every fucking god is also a god of war. Like, Baldur, fucking god of being a pretty-boy, was an invincible god of war. That's how ludicrously war-like Norse Myth was. Norse Mythology is also kind of famous for having this little event called Ragnarok in it, where literally everyone dies?

You are literally saying 'the director altered the backstory by suggesting that the Norse Gods may have been pretty goddamn warlike some time in the past, and were destined to all die.' You know, these things that are literally core to Norse mythology? Or are you saying that just because this was never stated, explicitly, ever, in the comics, it can't be used? Because as we all know, the MCU follows the comics slavishly.

This is why Tony Stark won his fight with Captain America in Captain America: Civil War, because he was loaded full of Extremis and had superhuman reflexes, intelligence, and coordination.
 
Mark said:
Extra extra...read all about it...a few posts ago.
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Editing posts after being called out on dodging questions does not, in fact, make you clever.

Mark said:
As for the American Revolution... British colonialism is the foundation of the United States. Without it, the world would be a much different...and probably much worse...place.
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So you have a negative view of British colonialism then? Or are you loyal to the crown?
 
Ah yes, the classic "ignore it, don't tell anyone until a deathbed confession, and toss the problem on the next generation" truly is as good as any.
 
Mutton said:
Ah yes, the "ignore it, don't tell anyone until a deathbed confession, and toss the problem on the next generation" truly is as good as any.
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Remember the first movie....Odin's plan as far as we can tell wasn't a death bed confession. Loki got in the way of the transfer of power (and responsibility) to Thor.

Since Waititi invented the "Big Reveal" that Odin had an evil daughter and a warlord past AFTER the first two movies were in the can, there are logical inconsistencies like Odin calling Thor his first born, plastering over moving murals without anyone knowing...an army of corpses in the vault .... and not having a better plan to address his own eventual death and what that would mean for Ragnarok, Thor and his kingdom.

If Loki hadn't freaked out and ordered Volstagg to bring them back while Hela was practically on top of them.... She had no way to get to Asgard from Earth.
 
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I, too, dislike Thor: Ragnarok for altering the backstory of the characters to deliver a political message.

They should have had Thor, Loki, and all the Asgardians die, horribly, by the end of the movie, but instead, they wanted to send the politically correct message that heroism might do something more than achieve a glorious death and that dying a glorious death is not the goal everyone should be universally striving for at all costs, which is insulting to all of us pro-human-extinctionists.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
You are literally saying 'the director altered the backstory by suggesting that the Norse Gods may have been pretty goddamn warlike some time in the past, and were destined to all die.' You know, these things that are literally core to Norse mythology? Or are you saying that just because this was never stated, explicitly, ever, in the comics, it can't be used? Because as we all know, the MCU follows the comics slavishly.
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i would actually have had an aneurysm on the spot if i heard that they were adapting civil war without changing much i swear

Anyway. To try and salvage something from this discussion since your quote is a good jumping off point, the film itself (afaik; I'm not a Thor buff, so grain of salt that I may be missing some things here) primarily draws elements from Walt Simonson's Thor and its story arc about Sutur (which was a huge sprawling thing which ALSO draws from the mythic Ragnarök in many ways), the Planet Hulk storyline (wherein Hulk gets dumped on Sakar to be a gladiator). (Visually the biggest touchstone is Jack Kirby: this isn't a movie inspired by his art so much as deliberately in its mode). I was a mite skeptical when I first heard about the choice to tag in Hulk but it worked out pretty well.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
I, too, dislike Thor: Ragnarok for altering the backstory of the characters to deliver a political message.

They should have had Thor, Loki, and all the Asgardians die, horribly, by the end of the movie, but instead, they wanted to send the politically correct message that heroism might do something more than achieve a glorious death and that dying a glorious death is not the goal everyone should be universally striving for at all costs, which is insulting to all of us pro-human-extinctionists.
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Or they could address the rebirth of the gods.
 
Mark said:
Or they could address the rebirth of the gods.
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They could have done a lotta things. I don't see why that would have made a better story or why they should have done it as their direction.

If you want to make an argument as to why they should have done that, you're free to! If you have a good one, I'd even like to hear it.
 
Mark said:
Remember the first movie....Odin's plan wasnt a death bed confession. Loki got in the way of the transfer of power (and responsibility) to Thor.
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Yes, because there was no way that this should have been taken care of aeons ago, long before Odin became an old man.
Kick that can, kick that can, kick that down right down the curb!
 
Mark said:
Colonial happened there's nothing we can do about that...
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Now, in context, it would seem this we is a generalized we, encompasing people in general....

Which makes this statement like, objectively untrue?

People can totally do things to mitigate the aftereffects of colonialsm.

And if i misunderstood and by "we" ypu mean the people in this thread... like, how would you know? There's at least one lawyer here, and colonialism-derived issues have been (somewhat) redressed by civil court damages before, iirc. So it's at least possible in theory.
 
Mutton said:
Yes, because there was no way that this should have been taken care of aeons ago, long before Odin became an old man.
Kick that can, kick that can, kick that down right down the curb!
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That's what happens when you invent a backstory AFTER the other movies are already in the can. Odin "Dropped the ball" because Waititi invented an evil daughter for him to deal with...after filming had wrapped for "The Dark World"

You can call that kicking the can down the road if you like, personally I call that a continuity error.
In the last movie we learned that Asgard existed before Odin, who ascended the Throne after his Father Borr died in Battle defending the Nine Realms (in the comics it was Loki who killed him) . In the MCU Odin has always been a good guy, just like his father before him. They fought the Dark elves 5,000 years ago to save the 9 realms, they fought the Jotuns in Norway to save Earth.... they had always been the good guys....right up until Waititi was handed the reigns of this movie.


Jace911 said:
Yes, Odin of the tragically short lifespan only had the one movie to tell his sons about their secret firstborn sister.
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That's what happens when they invent the secret firstborn sister between movies.


Chloe Sullivan said:
Now, in context, it would seem this we is a generalized we, encompasing people in general....

Which makes this statement like, objectively untrue?
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Unless you have a Delorian and enough road to get up to 88 miles per hour.... Not much we can do about changing the past.

People can totally do things to mitigate the aftereffects of colonialsm.
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I didn't say we couldn't work on the after effects, I said we couldn't change what happened in the past.

And if i misunderstood and by "we" ypu mean the people in this thread... like, how would you know? There's at least one lawyer here, and colonialism-derived issues have been (somewhat) redressed by civil court damages before, iirc. So it's at least possible in theory.
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I've never been a fan of imposing civil damages on people who's only crime was being born and being held to pay for the "Sins" of their ancestors.


One last thought on the continuity here

"To fight, to bleed, to die for those we love and cherish. To wage war on those who would kill any who cannot defend themselves. To hold back the ever-growing tide of Ragnarök that comes to calm us all. This is not our duty. It is the reason for our very existence. Since the days of Bor and Buri before him, we have protected the Nine Realms. But for too long, Asgard has been cut off from those who depend on our blood and courage for their survival. Without our light, darkness spreads. But the time of darkness is at an end. Asgard returns. And there will be Hel to pay!"
―Thor[src]
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I'm interested to see what people think the future of the Asgardians will be. Heimdall is all seeing and would have seen the death of Odin and the emergence of Hela before she got to Asgard. Loki probably has the Tesseract.... I'd be curious to see what people think they could do to rebuild their civilization with what they have.
 
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so putting the dingleberry with the unironic MQ-9 avatar pumping his pud to colonialism to one side for a moment

I have seen the film!

Thoughts in no real order: Hemsworth's a good comic actor at minimum, Blanchett was chewing the scenery like it was doused in fond de veau and was badly underutilised, Cumberbatch's accent was dire, Hopkins phoned it the fuck in, Goldblum was also underutilised but seemed to be having fun and was decent to watch, Elba actually got to do something, Hiddleston's much better when he's playing Loki the Joki rather than Loki Of Jotunheim, Serious Villain, and Korg was pretty amusing. Waititi put a lot of colour and energy into the whole thing, and the music was at its best when it was electrofluff from someone's dream of the 80s. The production design was amazing. A lot of the fight choreography was good. There was some marvelous shot composition going on, perfect for making .gifs out of and reblogging. Jokes got in the way somewhat and enough of them fell flat to be noticeable.

It was ok. Didn't really impress me and I probably won't remember much of it.

Might sit down to watch it if it's on TV.

3.5/10

Edit: personally I hold that 5/10 is a good score because it's half of all available points
 
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Claudette Savagely said:
so putting the dingleberry with the unironic MQ-9 avatar pumping his pud to colonialism to one side for a moment

I have seen the film!

Thoughts in no real order: Hemsworth's a good comic actor at minimum, Blanchett was chewing the scenery like it was doused in fond de veau and was badly underutilised, Cumberbatch's accent was dire, Hopkins phoned it the fuck in, Goldblum was also underutilised but seemed to be having fun and was decent to watch, Elba actually got to do something, Hiddleston's much better when he's playing Loki the Joki rather than Loki Of Jotunheim, Serious Villain, and Korg was pretty amusing. Waititi put a lot of colour and energy into the whole thing, and the music was at its best when it was electrofluff from someone's dream of the 80s. The production design was amazing. A lot of the fight choreography was good. There was some marvelous shot composition going on, perfect for making .gifs out of and reblogging. Jokes got in the way somewhat and enough of them fell flat to be noticeable.

It was ok. Didn't really impress me and I probably won't remember much of it.

Might sit down to watch it if it's on TV.

3.5/10

Edit: personally I hold that 5/10 is a good score because it's half of all available points
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Fair enough. I like the music by itself, but it inspired none of the gravitas and majesty of the previous movies. I do think it would have gone well with the CGI from the first movie though.
 
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Mark's arguements basically boils down to the typical "get over it, it was a long time ago." I'm assuming he's from New Zealand since he keeps mentioning the Maori and fails to see that because of the British colonization of those islands at the expense of the indigenous people, and being a colony of Europe's most prosperous empire, he gets to enjoy living in a first world nation. So fuck being reminded of this history or trying to readdress past injustices by even the simplest form of acknowledging they happened and admitting they were wrong, we have to move on. Forget about the people who are still socially and economically suffering due to the legacy of colonialism because it's not his problem.
 
Wi'se said:
Mark's arguements basically boils down to the typical "get over it, it was a long time ago." I'm assuming he's from New Zealand since he keeps mentioning the Maori and fails to see that because of the British colonization of those islands at the expense of the indigenous people, and being a colony of Europe's most prosperous empire, he gets to enjoy living in a first world nation. So fuck being reminded of this history or trying to readdress past injustices by even the simplest form of acknowledging they happened and admitting they were wrong, we have to move on. Forget about the people who are still socially and economically suffering due to the legacy of colonialism because it's not his problem.
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Not to rehash this.... but no I'm not from NZ. I do agree that colonialism has afforded literally billions the opportunity to live in the first world that would otherwise not have had the opportunity.... but that's neither here nor there. My perspective on this sort of thing is.....accept that it happened a long time ago...and move the fuck on with your life so we don't keep rehashing it and bitching about the past endlessly. If everyone keeps harboring the ills of the past no one ever moves on.
 
Mark said:
Not to rehash this.... but no I'm not from NZ. I do agree that colonialism has afforded literally billions the opportunity to live in the first world that would otherwise not have had the opportunity.... but that's neither here nor there. My perspective on this sort of thing is.....accept that it happened a long time ago...and move the fuck on with your life so we don't keep rehashing it and bitching about the past endlessly. If everyone keeps harboring the ills of the past no one ever moves on.
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That's the thing, this isn't some historical grudge match where people are holding onto bad feelings from shit that happened a long time ago. This shit is still happening to this day, like my cousins who got tear gassed and a friend got shot with rubber bullets because the government moved a pipeline that would negatively affect a white community to go through Native one. And look this past week 210,000 gallons of oil just leaked. Then there's the thousand + of Native women in Canada that are murdered and missing but the government doesn't do shit because it's a bunch of chug squaws to them, not the master race which would get the full force of the authorities on their ass. Two female cousins of mine just moved back to Canada earlier this year, and I worry every day that I'm going to get a call that they've joined the missing. That's how bad it is.

So fuck that noise about how we need to just need to hold hands and move on toward the sunset. Cause I'd love to do that, but the dominate culture is a bully that continues to beat out our ass between classes and stealing our lunch money.
 
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