Thor: Ragnarok

That's not even why it got blown up; Sutur and Hela were the sins of colonialism and the people of Asgard were innocent (who are what made Asgard well, Asgard). Them blowing up the place was seen as an injustice, because that's what the compounded sins of colonialism are, an injustice.
Independent of the current discussion, are you sure you've got all the symbolism correct there? I'm not sure how Sutur ties into colonialism, and I don't think colonialism destroying the place it was perpetrated from really makes sense either.
 
I'm annoyed that he had a movie where he had to destroy Asgard, so he rewrote their backstory to make them colonialist so when he blew up Asgard he could convey blowing up colonialism.


He managed to turn the good guys into bad guys so when they got destroyed he could dance around and pat himself on the back for it.

Why doesn't somebody just write a movie about the Maori and make them Nazis so then you could justify wiping them out?

That's not how it's supposed to work.... you can't just alter the backstory to fit what you want. That's what annoys me the most he had an agenda walking into this and he decided to alter the backstory of the characters to convey a political message.

Thanks for letting me know how you feel about my ancestors being nearly physically genocided, and my grandparents being nearly culturally genocided by boarding schools!
 
Independent of the current discussion, are you sure you've got all the symbolism correct there? I'm not sure how Sutur ties into colonialism, and I don't think colonialism destroying the place it was perpetrated from really makes sense either.
Sure, you may no longer be going out there and stomping foreign people across the globe and stealing their stuff, but the attitudes that fueled that came from somewhere, and, if unaddressed and instead buried over like they never existed, have a bad tendency to rear their ugly head again. For references, see the entire Brexit campaign and MAGA.
 
You clearly didn't get the point that the Asgardian people now must give up their way of life and be sent into Exile to pay for the sins of their past. He literally turned them into refugees seeking asylum on Earth.

Didn't you get the part where Asgard was built on The Spoils of colonialism?! Poof! All gone no more, now the Asgardian people must give up all their ill-gotten gains and throw themselves on the mercy of the people of the nine Realms which they wronged?
Hold on there with those goalposts lest you make it over the border!

The point was that because the Asgardian people did not reckon with their own legacy of colonialism, that their leaders hid it from them and told them that they were great, it came back to bite them in the ass. Asgard, as a place, was not blowing up colonialism. Asgard as a place was a victim of Odin's purposeful blindness; the Asgardian people just as much victims as well. This was not a repudiation of the Asgardian people in the least.

Independent of the current discussion, are you sure you've got all the symbolism correct there? I'm not sure how Sutur ties into colonialism, and I don't think colonialism destroying the place it was perpetrated from really makes sense either.
Sutr is from one of the Nine Realms that were conquered; he's basically trying to go get vengeance on Odin and Asgard
 
I had no idea colonialism was a theme to the movie. I got the impression it was a Wheddon wannabe work place comedy wrapped in super hero tropes, and thus had little interest to me. So I'm going to go see it tomorrow. Besides I need to see something good to wash away the foul taste Justice League left in my mouth.
 
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Thanks for letting me know how you feel about my ancestors being nearly physically genocided, and my grandparents being nearly culturally genocided by boarding schools!
Sorry... my give a damn Is busted. After decades of people telling me that I'm to blame for every fucking thing that ever went wrong on the face of the earth because I'm a white male, I'm all out of fucks to give. I had nothing to do with what happened to your ancestors, I'm not responsible for what happened to your ancestors just like you're not responsible for what happened to my ancestors so stop acting like I owe you something.

If you have a grievance with British colonialism, take it up with the British, not me. If the director here wants to get political and talk about colonialism, maybe he should have this discussion with the British instead of fucking with Norse mythology in a sci fi movie and altering the backstory to fit his agenda.


Hold on there with those goalposts lest you make it over the border!


The point was that because the Asgardian people did not reckon with their own legacy of colonialism, that their leaders hid it from them and told them that they were great, it came back to bite them in the ass. Asgard, as a place, was not blowing up colonialism. Asgard as a place was a victim of Odin's purposeful blindness; the Asgardian people just as much victims as well. This was not a repudiation of the Asgardian people in the least.



Sutr is from one of the Nine Realms that were conquered; he's basically trying to go get vengeance on Odin and Asgard



I'm impressed by how easily you can mentally distance destroying a nation from harming its people. You're essentially pretending as if destroying Asgard doesn't affect the asgardians, or that somehow Collective punishment for the sins of the ancestors from..what ?10,000 years ago is somehow Justified.

So what if 10,000 years ago Odin conquered the warring people of the nine realms. Have you noticed how none of them are exactly peaceful? This is the equivalent of the biggest baddest most powerful native tribe going to war and subduing nine other native tribes and ultimatly improving the lives of countless Generations. 10000 years later Odin's daughter escapes from prison and now every living asguardian must go into Exile and have their home destroyed as penance for Odin bringing peace and order to the Galaxy?

By that measure every race, every Creed, every single political entity in the Marvel Universe is guilty of the crimes of every one of their ancestors and should likewise be held to answer for anything any of their ancestors ever did wrong.

What Odin may or may not have done happened so long ago that no one in the Galaxy remembered it but him Hela and maybe Sutr. They are all dead or gone, why should every living Asgardian be held to suffer exile ......for whatever the hell unnamed sins this director implied Odin may or may not have committed?


If we uphold the standard that all asgardians should be made to suffer because one Asgardian did something wrong a very long time ago.... by that same measure every Maori director in Hollywood should be made to suffer for the sins of every Maori to ever come before them that did something wrong.

Obviously that is a very stupid standard to uphold.
 
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Sorry... my give a damn Is busted. After decades of people telling me that I'm to blame for every fucking thing that ever went wrong on the face of the earth because I'm a white male, I'm all out of fucks to give. I had nothing to do with what happened to your ancestors, I'm not responsible for what happened to your ancestors just like you're not responsible for what happened to my ancestors so stop acting like I owe you something.

If you have a grievance with British colonialism, take it up with the British, not me. If the director here wants to get political and talk about colonialism, maybe he should have this discussion with the British instead of fucking with Norse mythology in a sci fi movie and altering the backstory to fit his agenda
*Movies pretty clearly doesn't blame the people of a land for the sins of their forefathers*
"Why must everyone put this burden upon me, woe be my life for it is so hard"

Still waiting on the nation you're from that doesn't have a history of colonialism.
 
Sorry... my give a damn Is busted. After decades of people telling me that I'm to blame for every fucking thing that ever went wrong on the face of the earth because I'm a white male, I'm all out of fucks to give. I had nothing to do with what happened to your ancestors, I'm not responsible for what happened to your ancestors just like you're not responsible for what happened to my ancestors so stop acting like I owe you something.

If you have a grievance with British colonialism, take it up with the British, not me. If the director here wants to get political and talk about colonialism, maybe he should have this discussion with the British instead of fucking with Norse mythology in a sci fi movie and altering the backstory to fit his agenda

You know what, it doesn't really matter everybody's got an opinion and there's no point in arguing about it any further

instructions unclear
 
*Movies pretty clearly doesn't blame the people of a land for the sins of their forefathers*
"Why must everyone put this burden upon me, woe be my life for it is so hard"

Still waiting on the nation you're from that doesn't have a history of colonialism.

Where I am from is irrelevant. No matter what I say, you'll argue that something somewhere in my Nation's past qualifies as colonialism .... and as a result.. I'm now personally guilty of some random genocide somewhere 100 years before I was born that I had absolutely nothing to do with.
 
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Where I am from is irrelevant. No matter what I say, you'll argue that something somewhere in my Nation's past qualifies as colonialism .... and as a result.. I'm now personally guilty of some random genocide somewhere 100 years before I was born that I had absolutely nothing to do with.

No one is saying you're guilty of anything, besides maybe refusing to answer as to whether or not colonialism was a bad thing, and which should be portrayed as such.
 
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Where I am from is irrelevant. No matter what I say, you'll argue that something somewhere in my Nation's past qualifies as colonialism .... and as a result.. I'm now personally guilty of some random genocide somewhere 100 years before I was born that I had absolutely nothing to do with.
Film was about a place built on colonialism being disrupted despite the relative innocence of the people there with no blame assigned to them.

"Quit blaming me for colonialism because my nation totally doesn't have any colonial history and even if it does it's random!"
 
No one is saying you're guilty of anything, besides maybe refusing to answers as to wether or not colonialism was a bad thing and which should be portrayed as such.

Colonial happened there's nothing we can do about that...it happened. whether it was a good thing or a bad thing depends upon your perspective, where you are in the world right now and how it affected your country specifically. there were good aspects and bad aspects. There are aspects of colonialism that made the world a better place and there are aspects of colonialism that made various places in the world worse. Asking yes or no was it good or bad paints with a very broad brush. No matter what I say I'll be wrong. there are countries that benefited tremendously from colonialism, countries that Europeans made contact with, traded with and improved. Conversely there are countries that didn't benefit as much from contact with Colonial powers.

The history of the human race is basically the story of individual groups meeting each other fighting over resources and somebody coming out on top. It's a relatively recent occurrence that the group that came out on top is expected to sit quietly while the losers complain endlessly about how terrible they are.

So to answer your question, was the spread of Western Civilization a good thing for the world or bad thing? Personally I believe that the spread of Western Civilization has had a net positive effect on the planet.



....
Film was about a place built on colonialism being disrupted despite the relative innocence of the people there with no blame assigned to them."


The message of the film comes across that countries with a colonial past must be destroyed regardless of whether or not the current people are guilty of anything or not
 
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whether it was a good thing or a bad thing depends upon your perspective, where you are in the world right now and how it affected your country specifically. there were good aspects and bad aspects. There are aspects of colonialism that made the world a better place and there are aspects of colonialism that made various places in the world worse. Asking yes or no was it good or bad paints with a very broad brush. No matter what I say I'll be wrong. there are countries that benefited tremendously from colonialism, countries that Europeans made contact with, traded with and improved.

 
The Trans-Atlantic slave trade was a good thing. Got it.

Say it with me folks, "Colonialism is bad."
Now you're just trying to put words in my mouth.

You want to bring up the Atlantic slave trade now? I thought we were worried about the Pacific? Fact is the Atlantic slave trade would not have been possible if the natives hadn't been out Waring with each other rounding up their neighbors and selling them into slavery. Not to mention the proceeding thousand years of the Arab slave trade.
 
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Now you're just trying to put words in my mouth.

You want to bring up the Atlantic slave trade now I thought we were worried about the Pacific? Fact is the Atlantic slave trade would not have been possible if the natives hadn't been out Waring with each other rounding up their neighbors and selling them into slavery

can someone please add the thread tag "hubris is a coward's word"
 
The message of the film comes across that countries with a colonial past must be destroyed regardless of whether or not the current people are guilty of anything or not

Wat. The message was that not confronting one's past and covering it up leads to poor ends. This was in metaphorical bright flashing letters
 
Colonial happened there's nothing we can do about that...it happened. whether it was a good thing or a bad thing depends upon your perspective, where you are in the world right now and how it affected your country specifically.
A country that benefited from colonialism will obviously be more forgiving of its own colonialism than one that suffered from it, but that doesn't actually make whether colonialism is good or bad entirely subjective.
 
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Let's not be too mean to Soru to Kurai Sekai. Western critics that didn't understand the differing cultural values gave it an undeserved bad rap. You see Loki isn't really his brother because he's adopted there's no biological relation so there's really no problem with
 
Wat. The message was that not confronting one's past and covering it up leads to poor ends. This was in metaphorical bright flashing letters
Odin did confront his past.... he did a 180 and spent thousands of years defending the nine realms to make up for whatever it was he did that was worse than everyone else at the time that made him "evil". Just because he didn't fall on his sword and teach the next generation to hate themselves for things THEY never did...doesn't mean he didn't confront his past.


A country that benefited from colonialism will obviously be more forgiving of its own colonialism than one that benefitted from it, but that doesn't actually make whether colonialism is good or bad entirely subjective.

Um... you might want to proofread that.
 
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Odin did confront his past.... he did a 180 and spent thousands of years defending the nine realms to make up for whatever it was he did that was worse than everyone else at the time that made him "evil". Just because he didn't fall on his sword and teach the next generation to hate themselves for things THEY never did...doesn't mean he didn't confront his past.

If burying Hela for god knows how many years until she came back and fucked Asgard upside and down is "confronting his past" I would hate to see what avoiding it looks like!

Um... you might want to proofread that.

Since you seem to be so fond of British colonialism how do you feel about the American Revolution?
 


Let's not be too mean to Soru to Kurai Sekai. Western critics that didn't understand the differing cultural values gave it an undeserved bad rap. You see Loki isn't really his brother because he's adopted there's no biological relation so there's really no problem with

Ah yes, two dudes in close physical contact must want to fuck.:rolleyes:

Grow up.
 
Odin did confront his past.... he did a 180 and spent thousands of years defending the nine realms to make up for whatever it was he did that was worse than everyone else at the time that made him "evil". Just because he didn't fall on his sword and teach the next generation to hate themselves for things THEY never did...doesn't mean he didn't confront his past.




Um... you might want to proofread that.
Does the phrase "kicking the can down the road" mean anything to you? You deal with the issues you caused, you don't ignore them or fall on your sword or other stupid shit like that.
 
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