There Was An Idea: A Kevin Feige Quest

I think that's the point. We have a whole movie to dispel the "guy with a bow" meme and justify his inclusion in the team by showing Clint hitting way above his weight class by being clever and such. And ultimately Wanda and Pietro are sympathetic characters we want to turn into heroes. There's no reason the movie has to feature Clint bearing then rather than just holding his own and talking them down.

Also well Clint has a history of giving his targets a second chance.

Him saving them would be the biggest call back to Black Widow History with him. Not sure how much Widow would be in this but that could make an interesting foil if she wasn't on board persay. Also he could get crap from others for bringing home two more orphans. You could make a wards joke at his expense.

Only for situations where it would be relevant. For example, show Osborn running his business and butting heads with Tony, Pepper, Justin Hammer, etc.

Have Oscorp step in for the military contracts Tony is no long bidding on.
 
...Killmonger's argument has nothing to do with Avengers, and making Black Panther an origin story would not be interesting - real life did it right when they made his origins a subplot in a movie about other people so that the proper Black Panther movie would be focused on a much more interesting conflict that required an already established Black Panther.

And honestly, with a few exception, the Marvel sequels tend to be better than the origins stories, specifically because they don't need to do the extra work of establishing the hero. Why would we not want that to Black Panther? And why go with a different story when we know that the original one worked perfectly well?

Black Panther doesn't need to be in Avengers 2 just because he had a movie before it - Doctor Strange certainly shouldn't be.
For me, the reason to do an origin story is because we have the breathing space for it --we can keep his father around for a full film at least (I mean, come on, let's have one unquestionably good dad/leader in the MCU, and not kill him off right away) and we can explore more of Wakanda before we immediately dive into criticism of it.

...that, incidentally, is what the Avengers have to do with Killmonger's argument -- that when Wakanda has the ability to make a difference in the world, and instead sit on their hands, they bear some responsibility for the suffering they could otherwise have prevented.

Now, I'm a person who's very sympathetic to Wakanda's isolationist stance, especially given how the rest of the continent was harmed by colonialism, but I can see his point. When you're in that kind of position, having the ability to help means you have the responsibility to help.
 
For me, the reason to do an origin story is because we have the breathing space for it --we can keep his father around for a full film at least (I mean, come on, let's have one unquestionably good dad/leader in the MCU, and not kill him off right away) and we can explore more of Wakanda before we immediately dive into criticism of it.

...that, incidentally, is what the Avengers have to do with Killmonger's argument -- that when Wakanda has the ability to make a difference in the world, and instead sit on their hands, they bear some responsibility for the suffering they could otherwise have prevented.

Now, I'm a person who's very sympathetic to Wakanda's isolationist stance, especially given how the rest of the continent was harmed by colonialism, but I can see his point. When you're in that kind of position, having the ability to help means you have the responsibility to help.
I agree. I think the Killmonger argument can be enhanced greatly in two ways in our MCU as opposed to OTL. Firstly, if Wakanda 'ignores' the Ultron incident in Avengers 2 to preserve their isolationism and the potential consequences of that.

Second, the reveal of both Atlantis and Wakanda to the surface world and more importantly - each other. All of a sudden, they aren't the only isolationist, high-tech society on Earth. While they wouldn't necessarily want to go to war with each other, it would definitely increase tensions of the population of both societies greatly, which could add to the realism of Killmonger taking control over Wakanda and the people thinking that he is justified because he wants to say, develop more weapons to defend against a potential attack by Atlantis.

We don't need to have Ultron cause a literal military conflict in Avengers 2 between Wakanda and Atlantis, but he could take some steps that run parallel to his plan to increase tensions between the countries into a psuedo-cold war conflict which could boil over into our potential Avengers 3 conflict or help enhance the theme of Phase 3 being about conflict between heroes for a Civil War movie.
 
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...he wasn't? That's about half the point of the Black Panther movie, that T'Chaka was wrong. There's a whole scene just before the climax where T'Challa realizing this gives him the strenght to beat Killmonger and everything.
I don't mean good as in "right", I mean as in "a genuinely good person". Odin is a strong leader and a great man, but he isn't remotely a "good man" or an unproblematic good dad. Neither is Howard Stark. Neither is Hank Pym. Bruce's dad is a real bastard, and Cap's dad isn't in the picture.

I'm saying that T'Chaka's a good dad, and it would be good to show that for a bit given the dearth of such characters in our MCU.
 
I don't mean good as in "right", I mean as in "a genuinely good person". Odin is a strong leader and a great man, but he isn't remotely a "good man" or an unproblematic good dad. Neither is Howard Stark. Neither is Hank Pym. Bruce's dad is a real bastard, and Cap's dad isn't in the picture.

I'm saying that T'Chaka's a good dad, and it would be good to show that for a bit given the dearth of such characters in our MCU.
It could also be that is philosophy was correct/most optimal in the past but has now become outdated. Part of his arc could be him accepting that.

So with Thor & Loki in Asgard, Black Panther in Wakanda, and Namor in Atlantis, we could have three nations and contrasts to show off each of these three and in how they are ruled/who rules them. Obviously in-universe the politics between Wakanda and Atlantis will play a bigger role than between them and Asgard, but that could change if we go with the "New Asgard on Earth" idea.
 
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For me, the reason to do an origin story is because we have the breathing space for it --we can keep his father around for a full film at least (I mean, come on, let's have one unquestionably good dad/leader in the MCU, and not kill him off right away) and we can explore more of Wakanda before we immediately dive into criticism of it.
I agree here, firstwe can explore Wakanda, give it mre depth like we did with Namor and Atlantis, and then we can startmaking the whole Killmonger saga with the criticism that comes with it.

I mean, Namor and Atlantis is understandable, they are not human,and need to protect themselves since theyjust recently (very recently) have been nearly destroyed by associating with Surface Dwellers. Wakanda had to deal with Colonialism, but at the moment they are "The" Power if they reveal themselves. Learning about each other might be interesting indeed.

Plus this might mean that we have time and space to add Namor to the Avengers 2 film.
...that, incidentally, is what the Avengers have to do with Killmonger's argument -- that when Wakanda has the ability to make a difference in the world, and instead sit on their hands, they bear some responsibility for the suffering they could otherwise have prevented.

Now, I'm a person who's very sympathetic to Wakanda's isolationist stance, especially given how the rest of the continent was harmed by colonialism, but I can see his point. When you're in that kind of position, having the ability to help means you have the responsibility to help.
If we make the sequel to happen justafter the Avengers 2 events (but not too soon, we can still have Spider-Man be the first movie of phase 3) then we can have him reference what nearly just happened, and while the entire world was nearly destroyed, and thousands died, Wakanda, who had the power and ability to stop Ultron, did nothing.

Damn, I'd go see that movie.
 
You guys want to really stick it to Sony?

Try these.




To be clear, he's not complaining about how Spidey was introduced, he was happy with Tom Holland, and he found Homecoming decent. It's more theorycrafting on how to use [REDACTED] and connect it towards the current MCU. Take a look!
 
Player Omake: "Return of the Prodigal Son"
A/N Here's a short article omake.

Welcome to World of Geek News
Where All News is Geeky

THE RETURN OF THE PRODIGAL SON
Marvel regains film rights to the Web-Slinger
By Jennifer St.Clair




It was a day unlike any other as an Avengers comic once said when Disney announced that they reacquired the film rights of Spider-Man from Sony causing comic book fans and fans of the films to revel in excitement on the internet. The announcement poster was tweeted alongside a letter from Kevin Feige to the fans also was retweeted and shared over one million times and the hashtag #WelcomeHomeSpidey trended worldwide at number one for two weeks.

Disney required the rights from Sony after a lengthy negotiation process after Sony was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy after being hacked by the government of North Korea in response for the Seth Rogan and James Franco comedy "The Interview" which ends in the gruesome death of Kim Jong-Un. What was seen from the hack showed a toxic workplace and the studios utter contempt for their consumers, viewing as them as sheep that they had to get in theater seats. With Sony on the back foot and Disney getting one of Marvel's crown jewels back it's exciting to see what Spider-Man will bring to the table for the MCU.

It is unknown when we'll see Spider-Man web-swing across the big screen but rumors say that we'll see the Web-Slinger make his first appearance in Phase 3 of the MCU.


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You guys want to really stick it to Sony?

Try these.




To be clear, he's not complaining about how Spidey was introduced, he was happy with Tom Holland, and he found Homecoming decent. It's more theorycrafting on how to use [REDACTED] and connect it towards the current MCU. Take a look!

I don't think it's a good idea to use Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man, nor do I think it would work.

Besides, just like it's mentioned at the beginning of the video, Spider-Man's introduction works in that context, but we have a different one now, so that must change as well.

Frankly, while I could see Peter parker still idolizing Tony Stark, and perhaps even seeing him as a mentor, I think he would also admire Captain America, and would even shoose his side on the Civil War, as he feels that what is being proposed (Sokovia Accords or its version of this timeline) is not something that he can support.
 
I would like to suggest some things for the Spider-Man franchise and introduction to the MCU.

Now, I have already mentioned how i feel that the best way to introduce the character and its supporting charcters is by slowly introducing them through the shows and other movies before making the Spider-Man movie the first film of phase 3. So here I will add some ideas that i hope to discuss:

- First, I get that many people do not want to include the origin story (I have only heard those that dislike it so I'm assuming that not everyone wants it) so perhaps what we can do is show through the shows some of Peter's life before he became Spider-Man. it would not be full episodes, or even arcs through the series, more like small cameos, perhaps of Peter and Uncle Ben leaving a Diner which they are regulars of, May Parker perhaps working as a volunteer inan organization, etc. Just small things, but not all together, and we don't focus on them exclusively, just make them see that they are there.

- Second, oddly enough I enjoyed the amalgamation that they made of Gangke Lee and Ned Leeds, so perhaps we can make him like that again, but we can also introduce Harry Osborn, just not like Peter's friend. We can make it here like in the comics, since this is a franchise that is going to last more than three movies (I assume) so like in the comics we make it so that they dislike each other at first, but they start thawing out little by little until they become friends just before the appearance of the Green Goblin.

- Third, aside form the amalgamation of the best friend character suggested above we should make sure to make the characters closer to their comic book appearances, because frankly, I did not buy for a second that Flash Thompson, Aunt May, or "MJ" were who they claimed to be at all. Aside from how they looked they acted way too out of character as to how they should. I can understand the need for adaptations, but this was more making characters out of scratch and putting the name of a famous person in.

- Fourth, we make it so that the Daily Bugle is a recently created Newspaper, in fact that could be part of Ben Urich's arc. If we made him loose his job at Frontline like in Canon and started his Blog, we can have part of the story be how he still investigates, still goes after the truth, still posts in his blog, and his determination and style of going after the truth and exposing it comes to the attention of J. Jonah. jameson, who is in the process of forming a newspaper, one that will go after the truth just like Urich is doing, and he wants him in. The final scene could be of Ben teling Karen bout his new job and giving him a card if she ever wishes to apply there.

- Fifth, Norman Osborn. Now this guy is tricky, since he is the head of a corporation, yet we don't hear about him. So, what we do is the following: He is the head of a corporation, a pharmaceutical/chemical corporation, the leading one in the country, whose headquarters was in L.A., yet since Stark stopped making weapons they have been in competition with Hammer Industries in taking over the military contracts in order to expand their portfolio, thus they are moving their headquarters to New York, explaining as to why we have not heard from them yet.

- Sixth, there was a mention of a Post-Credit scene showing the origin story of Spider-Man, now I wouldn't go that far (I already mentioned what we can do to establish Spider-Man before his movie) but the Post-Credit scene can work if done properly. Say, if it's done at the end of the final film of phase 2, it shows police cars around a house, and we see a teen entering it (we don't see his face) then when he enters we see Aunt May crying and police officers around the house, then the camera finally shows the face of whoever we chose to be Peter Parker as apolice officer approaches him and tells him the bad news, and then we finish the Post-Credit scene. I think this can work with what we want.

This is what i got so far, what do you guys think?
 
So someone put this idea up earlier, and I really like it. What if we seeded out Peter's origin story in the post credit scenes for the final few Phase 2 movies, with Peter suiting up as a hero for the first time at the end of Avengers 2. That way we still cover it, we get our fans hype as hell, and we cement Spidey as an integral figure.

With that said, this does have a flaw. We'll need Spidey to be absolutely *amazing* if we're shoving him into people's faces for so long... And one poor dice roll could throw that all away.
 
Personally I think that is too much effort put into the introduction of a single hero. Yeah, yeah, it is Spider-Man, but he is currently just a big fish in a big pond filled with big fish.
He is not just a big fish in a big pond with big fish, he is The Big Fish. Spider-Man can be said, rightly, to be Marvel's flagship, which has been mishandled by SONY to the point that his credibility as a character may suffer, so we need to make sure, as i has ben said before on this thread, that when we introduce him we don't just hit a home-run, but blow it out of the park, and make like Babe Ruth with the New York Yankees.

Furthermore, if we had introduced Spider-Man sooner we would not have to do this, but we are now introducing not only the chracter but it's supporting characters as well, we have to give explanations as to why Norman Osborn has not been mantioned, where is the Daily bugle, etc.

And finally, I really want to make Spider-man the new face of the MCU after Iron Man dies (if we still go that route) so we need to make sure this character is solid.

So someone put this idea up earlier, and I really like it. What if we seeded out Peter's origin story in the post credit scenes for the final few Phase 2 movies, with Peter suiting up as a hero for the first time at the end of Avengers 2. That way we still cover it, we get our fans hype as hell, and we cement Spidey as an integral figure.
Well, I wanted to use those Post-Credit scenes to tease the Avenger movie itself, by showing Ultron assembling the Masters of Evil one by one.

Besides, Spider-Man needs to be established beyond some Post-Credit scenes, that's why i suggested the different cameos on TV shows, and establishing of the supporting cast as well.
With that said, this does have a flaw. We'll need Spidey to be absolutely *amazing* if we're shoving him into people's faces for so long... And one poor dice roll could throw that all away.
That's why we need to start discussing how to do it now, and perhaps add some omakes as well. Giving ideas to discuss can also help us refine them.
 
He is not just a big fish in a big pond with big fish, he is The Big Fish. Spider-Man can be said, rightly, to be Marvel's flagship, which has been mishandled by SONY to the point that his credibility as a character may suffer, so we need to make sure, as i has ben said before on this thread, that when we introduce him we don't just hit a home-run, but blow it out of the park, and make like Babe Ruth with the New York Yankees.
So what, he isn't going to perform spectacularly better than Iron Man, Cap or Thor. So again, I don't think he warrants that much effort.
Furthermore, if we had introduced Spider-Man sooner we would not have to do this, but we are now introducing not only the chracter but it's supporting characters as well, we have to give explanations as to why Norman Osborn has not been mantioned, where is the Daily bugle, etc.
Oh, that one is easy. Most of our movies didn't take place in New York.
 
If we want to kick of Spider-Man with a bang, how about a live action Spider-Verce film.

We get the origin story covered in the life comparisons, but use it to kickstart our Peter into getting past his grief for Uncle Ben and stepping up.

Get Maguire, Garfield, and Stone (for Spider-Gwen) back for one film. Get Nick Cage for old man Spider-Man Noir, and dive in.
 
If we want to kick of Spider-Man with a bang, how about a live action Spider-Verce film.

We get the origin story covered in the life comparisons, but use it to kickstart our Peter into getting past his grief for Uncle Ben and stepping up.

Get Maguire, Garfield, and Stone (for Spider-Gwen) back for one film. Get Nick Cage for old man Spider-Man Noir, and dive in.

I believe they used Lerman instead of Garfield in Quest
 
What if we did another period piece for our first Black Panther movie, show an earlier generation covertly resisting the scramble for Africa?
 
So what, he isn't going to perform spectacularly better than Iron Man, Cap or Thor. So again, I don't think he warrants that much effort.

Oh, that one is easy. Most of our movies didn't take place in New York.
He absolutely warrants that much effort. Also, all of our Defenders TV shows, the Avengers, and at least part of the plot of Iron Man 1 and 2 all take place in New York. NYC actually kind of busy. And that's just the minimum that I know for a fact of the top off my head, Ant-Man and the Wasp may also have been in New York.
 
So what, he isn't going to perform spectacularly better than Iron Man, Cap or Thor. So again, I don't think he warrants that much effort.
You really think a properly Made Spider-Man movie is not going to make as much as Thor, Captain América and Iron Man?

Oh, that one is easy. Most of our movies didn't take place in New York.
Our TV shows did, and they are all connected.
If we want to kick of Spider-Man with a bang, how about a live action Spider-Verce film.

We get the origin story covered in the life comparisons, but use it to kickstart our Peter into getting past his grief for Uncle Ben and stepping up.

Get Maguire, Garfield, and Stone (for Spider-Gwen) back for one film. Get Nick Cage for old man Spider-Man Noir, and dive in.
Was Spider-Gwen a thing here? With Gwen Stacy dying in the first movie there might have been some pushback against the character getting more time compares to the original idea for the Spider-verse.
 
He absolutely warrants that much effort. Also, all of our Defenders TV shows, the Avengers, and at least part of the plot of Iron Man 1 and 2 all take place in New York. NYC actually kind of busy. And that's just the minimum that I know for a fact of the top off my head, Ant-Man and the Wasp may also have been in New York.
He absolutely warrants that much effort. Also, all of our Defenders TV shows, the Avengers, and at least part of the plot of Iron Man 1 and 2 all take place in New York. NYC actually kind of busy. And that's just the minimum that I know for a fact of the top off my head, Ant-Man and the Wasp may also have been in New York.
He does not warrant more set up than our big bad Thanos.
You really think a properly Made Spider-Man movie is not going to make as much as Thor, Captain América and Iron Man?
I think he won't do much more than any of them, if at all.
Our TV shows did, and they are all connected.
And there can't be more than one newspaper in New York? OTL Marvel didn't care, so why do we need to put effort into establishing the Bugle?
 
He does not warrant more set up than our big bad Thanos.

I think he won't do much more than any of them, if at all.

And there can't be more than one newspaper in New York? OTL Marvel didn't care, so why do we need to put effort into establishing the Bugle?
Then you seriously underestimate the power of name recognition. While I'm not 100 percent certain that Spider-Man can single handedly bring in Avengers numbers, I have no doubt that a truly great Spider-Man can bring in more than Iron Man and maybe even Captain America. Also, while there certainly is more than a single newspaper in NYC, setting up the Daily Bugle can be useful. Here's what I think; instead of slowly setting Spidey up over the course of several TV shows, let's have just one or two scenes that set up as much as possible. Maybe a scene where Matt Murdock has to go to the Bugle to question one of their reporters who witnessed events related to the case he is working. If we want to stretch the limits of coincidence, that reporter can even be Parker! Otherwise we introduce Jameson (which we should do anyway), have him object to the questioning, play out the scene, then as Matt is walking to his man Jameson loudly calls Parker to his desk. That way we avoid having to hire his actor, we just need Jameson's, and we have set up Peter. Then have the post-credit scene of the movie that releases before Spider-Man's movie feature either a crook webbed up or an outstretched hand getting bit by a Spider (if we skip the backstory), a school with two teachers discussing an upcoming field trip (if we are going to do it), or just the newspaper office (neutral foreshadow)... or something else.
 
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Then you seriously underestimate the power of name recognition.
Am I really? Spider-Man isn't the outstanding earner you are making him out to be and besides general audiences seem to not care that he is Marvel's top-dog. Not to mention that six years into the MCU there is no point in talking about name recognition anymore. There should already be an entire internet industry set up processing any piece of Marvel news for the enthusiasts, and everyone else can't distinguish between Z- and B to A-lister anyway.

So I really don't see why we need half a dozen cameos of his supporting cast.
 
You know since we have the rights to Spider-Man and his associated characters and we will at least be doing a trilogy that takes place when he's in high school (SM1-Freshman, SM2-Sophmore, Infinity War-Junior(?) and SM3-Senior) I think it would be cool for our third Spider-Man movie to be based off of Kraven's last hunt or The Death of Jean DeWolff if we wanted to go for a darker tone since Peter would be 18 at that time in the MCU.
 
We should only setup the supporting cast members that are both:
  1. Big figures in the world not based on their relationship to Spider-Man.
  2. Characters we plan on using
To me, it seems like there are three major characters that potentially fit these two requirements. Norman Osborn, J. Jonah Jameson, and Kingpin (who was already introduced anyways). The rest of the side characters such as Otto Octavius could be reasonable to introduce as he becomes relevant to Spider-Man as he wouldn't be a public figure yet.
 
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