I just realized how messy the ordeal with Hayato is going to be.

@Crilltic Are you updating today/tonight or tomorrow do you think?
Preeeetttyyy messy if we get involved and somehow Hayate survives/Baki gets exposed.

Shit will go down on a great scale. Its one thing to try and keep the tournament going when the enemy is not certain you know but when they know you know they know you know then its harder to keep things in order.

Invasion´s probably going to get derailed or affected heavily.
 
Preeeetttyyy messy if we get involved and somehow Hayate survives/Baki gets exposed.

Shit will go down on a great scale. Its one thing to try and keep the tournament going when the enemy is not certain you know but when they know you know they know you know then its harder to keep things in order.

Invasion´s probably going to get derailed or affected heavily.
No, its worse. We can't interfere. IC, you just found an ally is actually an enemy and has had access to your village for the past few days. A Jonin who might be able to escape from watch-dogs for a little while. Enough to plant explosives, or gas bombs, or other such things.

Worse, there is a complete unknown moving even faster than the Jonin. How long have they been here? What have they possibly set up?

OoC, Kabuto cast a Sleeping Genjutsu on an entire stadium and was still battle worthy after. Including on many lower ranked Konoha nin. Gaara is right there. In the middle of the city.

They can not know we are here.

Edit: I was really hoping to save this for after the update because who knows what will happen, but since it got brought up... *Shrug* Sorry.
 
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No, its worse. We can't interfere. IC, you just found an ally is actually an enemy and has had access to your village for the past few days. A Jonin who might be able to escape from watch-dogs for a little while. Enough to plant explosives, or gas bombs, or other such things.

Worse, there is a complete unknown moving even faster than the Jonin. How long have they been here? What have they possibly set up?

OoC, Kabuto cast a Sleeping Genjutsu on an entire stadium and was still battle worthy after. Including on many lower ranked Konoha nin. Gaara is right there. In the middle of the city.

They can not know we are here.

Edit: I was really hoping to save this for after the update because who knows what will happen, but since it got brought up... *Shrug* Sorry.
You assume we have much choice. Our stealth is not quite up to stuff and I imagine Hayate would have higher stealth than a Genin.

And he still got found out.
 
You assume we have much choice. Our stealth is not quite up to stuff and I imagine Hayate would have higher stealth than a Genin.

And he still got found out.
Stunts, Willpower, we're not actually trying to spy on them, and never followed them, we're on a different set of roofs, ...Virtue channel possibly. Not sure if 1 Auto-Success is worth giving up for 3 potential successes.
 
Also remember that as far as Tenten knows, Kabuto is just an ordinary leaf genin.
I think he was in full disguise the entire meeting, wasn't he? I mean if he does take it off, that's good because we'll know his face and name. He's going to be moving as fast as Jonin though which is... Even if he doesn't get in the fight here, he still vacates the area for Baki vs. Hayato.

With so many unknowns and betrayals, we'd need to treat every possibility as Truth. From the possibility of explosives in the town, to Kabuto covering his true skills to be a long-term infiltrator.
 
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I think he was in full disguise the entire meeting, wasn't he? I mean if he does take it off, that's good because we'll know his face and name. He's going to be moving as fast as Jonin though which is... Even if he doesn't get in the fight here, he still vacates the area for Baki vs. Hayate.

With so many unknowns and betrayals, we'd need to treat every possibility as Truth. From the possibility of explosives in the town, to Kabuto covering his true skills to be a long-term infiltrator.
Kabuto wasn't wearing a disguise at all, he was wearing the same outfit and face he wore during the Chunin Exams when Tenten met him and when he was leering over Sasuke until Kakashi drove him off. Baki even mentions this. So assuming Tenten spot them (Spoilers: Tenten rolled 9 successes on 9 dice to spot them :V) it will be interesting...
 
Kabuto wasn't wearing a disguise at all, he was wearing the same outfit and face he wore during the Chunin Exams when Tenten met him and when he was leering over Sasuke until Kakashi drove him off. Baki even mentions this. So assuming Tenten spot them (Spoilers: Tenten rolled 9 successes on 9 dice to spot them :V) it will be interesting...
I hope she has the sense to keep her mouth closed? Please? We'd instant limit break like... 10 times in a row if we caused half the village to die.
 
*SNIP*
Poor insane moon rabbit. :(
So basically a high Essence Lunar:V

In the anime at least, Hayate shows up pretty much immediately after Gaara pulps Dosu. As Baki and Kabuto are discussing whether or not it's okay that Gaara just killed one of the Sound genin.
There was a significant interval of time, IIRC; note how Gaara is back to being all composed and there is literally no blood or evidence of Dosu's death left.
TV is just bad at showing time passing in a vacuum.

Well, Orochimaru's soul is a giant snake made up of thousands of smaller snakes. Fairly sure that's far enough.
Queen K'Tula turned herself into an octopus lady, and had octopus kids with her chimera Lunar husband.
Still a Solar.
 
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this is my favorte kind of cannon diversion. nothing big changes, it's just one of the dozen or so dominoes that had to fall exactly right falls differently. really the due was kind of asking for this by not taking advantage of the fact that changing your face is really easy for ninjas.
 
this is my favorte kind of cannon diversion. nothing big changes, it's just one of the dozen or so dominoes that had to fall exactly right falls differently. really the due was kind of asking for this by not taking advantage of the fact that changing your face is really easy for ninjas.
He wasn't changing his face on purpose because he wanted to see how Konoha would react.
 
Also remember that as far as Tenten knows, Kabuto is just an ordinary leaf genin.
Ordinary leaf genin do not confer with Sand jounin in shady corners.

Couple this with the fact that she knows the dude dropped out rather than fight, when his two teammates fought?
And that he had detailed intel files on everyone competing, which he was flashing around to the Konoha Twelve?
And the very best conclusion she'd come up with is Kabuto being an ANBU plant. At BEST.

Which she'd then promptly ask Gai about.
Kabuto wasn't wearing a disguise at all, he was wearing the same outfit and face he wore during the Chunin Exams when Tenten met him and when he was leering over Sasuke until Kakashi drove him off. Baki even mentions this. So assuming Tenten spot them (Spoilers: Tenten rolled 9 successes on 9 dice to spot them :V) it will be interesting...
The guy who claimed to be too tired/injured to compete is conferring with the jounin of another village?
Uh huh.

Also depends on whether Sakura mentions running into him in the Forest.
Because Sakura is a noob, while Tenten has been at this entire ninja thing for a year.
Coincidences should make her twitchy.

No, its worse. We can't interfere. IC, you just found an ally is actually an enemy and has had access to your village for the past few days. A Jonin who might be able to escape from watch-dogs for a little while. Enough to plant explosives, or gas bombs, or other such things.

Worse, there is a complete unknown moving even faster than the Jonin. How long have they been here? What have they possibly set up?
OoC, Kabuto cast a Sleeping Genjutsu on an entire stadium and was still battle worthy after. Including on many lower ranked Konoha nin. Gaara is right there. In the middle of the city.

They can not know we are here.
Edit: I was really hoping to save this for after the update because who knows what will happen, but since it got brought up... *Shrug* Sorry.
The village has been aware that Orochimaru is running an operation here since the beginning of the Exam's Second Stage, when he left those three Grass genin's bodies outside the Forest of Death.

He even sent a message to Sarutobi via Anko, and there was an actual meeting of the village's senior ninja involved in the exam, with Sarutobi and his teammates presiding.Kabuto has already slaughtered his way through the ANBU squad guarding Sasuke's room, and in doing so demonstrated his ability to penetrate highly secure areas.

Situation Normal, All Fucked Up.
Sarutobi wasn't wearing his armor to the Final Exams because it was comfortable.

Gaara really isn't a problem without backup.
He takes time and effort to hulk out, and without people covering him, the God of Shinobi will land on him in very short order.
Not to mention Jiraiya, who is currently somewhere in the village; triggering him early simply hands Konoha a shiny new bijuu.

Baki may be good at killing isolated special jounin with lung illness, but I wouldn't fancy his chances against Asuma. Or Gai.
Do remember that Shiranui Genma faced Baki in open combat during the Invasion, and he was a special jounin as well; Konoha has a chronic case of Hidden Badass among a lot of it's mid-tier troops.
 
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Yeah, basically, Konoha knew Orochimaru was planning something. They were caught off guard however by A) The scale of it, B) Suna being involved and C) Orochimaru bringing Edo Kage for his fight with Sarutobi.
 
Valid points, yes. But:
B) Suna being involved
We have a chance to flip this point without them being aware.

Maybe it's just one point of three, but it could be enough. Also, remember what Tenten is limited to IC. Does she know that Orochimaru is taunting Konoha? No, she doesn't.

Also, just because Orochimaru is taunting them doesn't mean anyone else he has working for him does. And if someone else jumps the gun?

And knowing Suna is involved could lead them to seeing point A as well.

And yes, Shukaku will be taken care of quickly. Help will arrive for us if we go Totemic quickly. Do you want to bet how many rounds of combat, how many swings of Shukaku's limbs can be taken in that time?
 
We have a chance to flip this point without them being aware.
Eh.
We also run the risk of fucking shit up for everyone.
We need Suna to maintain some sort of international parity vis a vis Kumo/Iwa.

Do remember that Rochi impersonated their Kage for godknowshowlong.
And a sane Gaara anchored a pretty strong Konoha ally.
There are pretty big risks with trying to derail this shit; I'd be happy with just getting us and Hayate out of there in one piece.

After all, he's a Melee expert, and we could use a tutor there for an XP discount.
Him, or his girlfriend.

And yes, Shukaku will be taken care of quickly. Help will arrive for us if we go Totemic quickly. Do you want to bet how many rounds of combat, how many swings of Shukaku's limbs can be taken in that time?
It takes time to power up to bijuu-status.
I fully expect him to go into that egg and come out to meet the end of Sarutobi's diamond staff, if they choose to push things here.

As for us?

We are the beneficiaries of a 6 dice bonus(-1 external penalty to any attack, +2 DV against any attack) once we trigger the DV anima.
[Melee 5 + Dex 5 + Stunt 2 + Defense 1(Exceptional Knife, with stats spread evenly across Speed, Accuracy and Defense)]/2 + Dawn anima boost = DV9 AND -1 external penalty to enemy attack.
The enemy needs to be throwing 20+ dice to hit us.

As long as Parry DV applies, and we're not hit with a flurry.
Or a charm-type effect that halves DV or something similar.
Or a perfect effect.
 
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so they can't hit us unless they use any of the things they use to hit powerful ninjas? :V
The LOUD, flashy things they use to hit powerful ninja.
Which kinda defeats the purpose of killing someone quietly.

I mean, if Baki starts throwing around Wind Release: Great Breakthroughs in the middle of Konoha, he's likely to have to answer pointed questions.
 
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Eh.
We also run the risk of fucking shit up for everyone.
We need Suna to maintain some sort of international parity vis a vis Kumo/Iwa.

Do remember that Rochi impersonated their Kage for godknowshowlong.
And a sane Gaara anchored a pretty strong Konoha ally.
There are pretty big risks with trying to derail this shit; I'd be happy with just getting us and Hayate out of there in one piece; after all, he's a Melee expert, and we could use a tutor there.
None of this is reasons not to do it. And what you're saying also involves "I'm willing to sacrifice massive amounts of civilians and Shinobi to maintain canon." Which is out the door already. Guess what, saving Hayate leads to the same outcome as not saving him in that respect.

Not saving him means Konoha gains a surprise advantage. We don't trigger an early start to the war, which could be extremely damaging for both sides, especially with Orochimaru in charge of them.

Gaara takes a long time to change when he is awake. If he falls asleep? Shukaku is coming out to play very quickly.

And, once more, what does Tenten know and suspect IC.
Or a charm-type effect that halves DV or something similar.
The LOUD, flashy things they use to hit powerful ninja.
Which kinda defeats the purpose of killing someone quietly.
Dude, do you not remember what actually kills Hayate? Wind Sword. Bypassed Hayate's Parry straight out. And likely a good chunk of his equipment granted soak.
 
None of this is reasons not to do it.
Actually are.
Solars: It's not whether you can, it's whether you should.

And what you're saying also involves "I'm willing to sacrifice massive amounts of civilians and Shinobi to maintain canon." Which is out the door already. Guess what, saving Hayate leads to the same outcome as not saving him in that respect.
Taking a long view, and being wary of ripple effects, is precisely what a Solar should watch out for.
Canon turned out pretty well for everyone; we're trying to tweak at the edges, not to upturn the whole shebang into chaos.

Saving Hayate nets us a Melee and Ninjutsu tutor, as well as connections into ANBU.
It's not meant to have geopolitical significance.

I'm not even especially convinced we should exert effort to save Sarutobi.
Dude was due for replacement anyway, and one little-noticed benefit of his demise was the fact that a certain old man with a stolen Sharingan did not get to hold private discussions with the village's CEO, and thus dictate policy.

Having him go out crippling Orochimaru was one hell of a bequest to the village, by neutering one of it's most implacable enemies.
Dude, do you not remember what actually kills Hayate? Wind Sword. Bypassed Hayate's Parry straight out. And likely a good chunk of his equipment granted soak.
What killed Hayate was the fact that his hands(and sword) were trapped.
Couldn't parry, couldn't dodge. DV inapplicable.

We aren't going to be lunging into hand to hand combat with a jounin, not when we have a Throwing Excellency, and the Dawn anima effects do not require DV applicability to work.
 
Saving Hayate nets us a Melee and Ninjutsu tutor, as well as connections into ANBU.
It's not meant to have geopolitical significance.
Maybe you missed that part. Save him or not, canon is out the window. Either way, the information that Suna is in on this gets to Sarutobi. I have idea how you're seeing the rest of that without seeing that piece.

One just involves us going up against two Jounin level opponents, and likely dying even at full totemic, where the other doesn't.
Actually are.
Solars: It's not whether you can, it's whether you should.
Don't quote that at me. We're a Solar, it is literally impossible for us not to change canon. That's even if Crilltic isn't already changing things. So we need to decide out battles carefully.
 
Maybe you missed that part. Save him or not, canon is out the window. Either way, the information that Suna is in on this gets to Sarutobi. I have idea how you're seeing the rest of that without seeing that piece.
And you seem to have missed my point.

Our very presence before Dosu gets to Gaara means that we get to raise the alarm right after Gaara murderblenders Dosu.
Which means Baki has to be home dealing with Leaf officials and Dosu's teammates, if not jounin.
Which means Hayate doesn't stumble onto a meeting of conspirators.

Plot derailed, with minimum medium-term consequences.
Don't quote that at me. We're a Solar, it is literally impossible for us not to change canon. That's even if Crilltic isn't already changing things. So we need to decide out battles carefully.
Not the same thing as attempting to rewire a major invasion four weeks before it kicks off.
I'd rather not incite Orochimaru to take the damn thing seriously.
 
And you seem to have missed my point.

Our very presence before Dosu gets to Gaara means that we get to raise the alarm right after Gaara murderblenders Dosu.
Which means Baki has to be home dealing with Leaf officials and Dosu's teammates, if not jounin.
Which means Hayate doesn't stumble onto a meeting of conspirators.

Plot derailed, with minimum medium-term consequences.
... Read:
Kabuto wasn't wearing a disguise at all, he was wearing the same outfit and face he wore during the Chunin Exams when Tenten met him and when he was leering over Sasuke until Kakashi drove him off. Baki even mentions this. So assuming Tenten spot them (Spoilers: Tenten rolled 9 successes on 9 dice to spot them :V) it will be interesting...
 
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