Until I see otherwise, any species that has the whole existence of 'kill others' as their main goal is not a species I want to share a universe with. If they chose to change then I'll change as well.

Letting something live that has the mentality of 'kill you' is a stupid idea.

"Until I see otherwise", is the problem. You are assuming a great deal and doing it in a way that leaves you vulnerable.
Try this analogy. We got mugged by some gangsters, sent to hospital, recovered and started attending a dojo. Years later we run into more of the gang and pound them, hard. We then dedicate our life to stopping this gang and go out hunting for them. Bad stuff starts happening, we blame the gang and hunt harder. Suddenly vampires everywhere! Turns out the 'Gang' was some dedicated vampire hunters and we just fucked up everything so bad the world is doomed.

We have no idea whats going on. Maybe the Shiplords are horrible monsters, maybe they are totally enslaved by some ancient program and have no free will. We are so damn far in the dark we can't afford to assume anything. If a Shiplord fleet shows up and attacks, yes we should stomp the hell out of it. But we can't afford to go crazy "Kill the witch" till we know where the real threats are. We already know there is something worse out there and we may find out that we need the Shiplords if we don't want to experience a unending existence of eternal torment with ho hope of death.

In short: Loot before burn, recon before nuke, and always confirm your target before pulling the trigger.
 
Little confused by this comment, actually.

Sorry I was meaning the other species. They don't do anything about this. If there are rules, then they should be going to races that are not QUITE to the punishment level, and warn them what is and isn't allowed.

The fact that other races do nothing does not inspire me with confidence in your universe. That it's considered NORMAL to just stand off and let unaware species advance to the point that they piss off the Shiplords, and only interact with them AFTER they drive the Shiplords away?

The fact that that's considered normal does not make me feel good.
 
Sorry I was meaning the other species. They don't do anything about this. If there are rules, then they should be going to races that are not QUITE to the punishment level, and warn them what is and isn't allowed.

The fact that other races do nothing does not inspire me with confidence in your universe. That it's considered NORMAL to just stand off and let unaware species advance to the point that they piss off the Shiplords, and only interact with them AFTER they drive the Shiplords away?

The fact that that's considered normal does not make me feel good.
I would assume they don't do warnings to undeveloped species because it provokes a reaction from the Shiplords.
 
In short: Loot before burn, recon before nuke, and always confirm your target before pulling the trigger.

Your analogy falls flat, as there is no indication that 'vampires' exist in your example, until after the fact. Being aware that someone is doing evil things, and not acting to stop them from doing evil things, is accepting that it's ok to do evil things. Just because they were fighting Vampires does not give them card-blanche to break the law in any way outside fighting the vampires. And mugging someone on the street is not fighting vampires.

I admit that I'm not the best debater, and that I have gaping holes in my arguments. But I refuse to accept that 'it's ok for them to do something evil' unless I see a reason why they're doing it. And even then, that's going to be a hard sell for me.

There's always a third option in any debate or argument.


I would assume they don't do warnings to undeveloped species because it provokes a reaction from the Shiplords.

Which, if this is the case, doesn't do anything to counter my argument that the Shiplords are evil and should be stopped.

(edit)I think I'm going to step away from the thread for a bit, there's no reason I should have any emotional attachment to an argument like this.
 
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Your analogy falls flat, as there is no indication that 'vampires' exist in your example, until after the fact. Being aware that someone is doing evil things, and not acting to stop them from doing evil things, is accepting that it's ok to do evil things. Just because they were fighting Vampires does not give them card-blanche to break the law in any way outside fighting the vampires. And mugging someone on the street is not fighting vampires.

Which, if this is the case, doesn't do anything to counter my argument that the Shiplords are evil and should be stopped.

(edit)I think I'm going to step away from the thread for a bit, there's no reason I should have any emotional attachment to an argument like this.

The lack of evidence of Vampires was a core 'point': We do not know whats going on.

We don't know if there are vampires, we don't know that the Shiplords are evil, we know virtually nothing. The Shiplords could even turn out to be the rightful police of the galaxy and the whole initial invasion of earth could have been caused by some evil human going full Gendo Ikari and nearly ending all life in the galaxy. Perhaps they even 'warned' humanity but someone covered it up.

We are deep in the dark and I hate it.

Yes, I agree that what the Shiplords are doing appears to be wrong, and we should continue to defend ourselves from them. But we lack the information required to make good or 'Good' decisions. We need to and seek understanding quickly before we are forced to make bad and 'Evil' decisions.

That said, should we be able to confirm the Shiplords are just a race of massive jerks, I'll bring out my biggest hammer and start swinging.
 
Closing out the vote.

Vote Tally : Original - Sci-Fi - The Practice War | Page 191 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1

[8] Let Vega answer.
[4] Write-In: Yes, I Do
[2] You had spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trusted that work deeply. Marcus might not be of the Circles, but he was part of this one, and that bond was stronger than any rage.
[2] Express your believe in humanity to be able to cope with it. Prevent repeats? Hell yes. Become mono-focused, bent on revenge? Hell no. Humanity has better things to do than let the Ship Lords decide how to shape their future. And that's a future that includes all of what humanity has the potential to be, not just being blood-thirsty crusaders.
[1] Let Humanity know the Truth. Trying to hide the facts will only cause people to hate us later.

Total No. of Voters: 17

Hoping to have the next part out tonight.
 
In the Shadow of Victory - Part 2
Maybe it was your own uncertainty, even after days to adjust to what Marcus and the rest of the cabinet had just found out. All except for Vega, at least. She'd been right there beside you when your soul had lashed out against the choking wrongness, and as you struggled to find the right words, hers spilled forth.

"There will be grief, Marcus," Vega's words surprised you at first, but you didn't try to stop her. In that moment, you chose to trust, as you'd always tried to. Not always successfully, but enough that it had set Congress spinning when they'd realised the truth. "There will be tears, and rage, and many voices will call to fury. But there is more to humanity than those things." Marcus looked across at her, into a young face lined with a certainty decades beyond its years, and he couldn't meet her gaze.

"We are both of the Third Awakened." She continued gently. "We woke and grew into a world of miracles, untouched by war. We read of the horrors that our elders lived through, but they were only that, read. We believed in the future that the Elder First had promised, that those like Amanda championed," you found yourself flushing despite yourself, but none noticed, "and accepted that one day we would march against the Shiplords. Even if we never understood what it meant, we accepted that, Marcus. Not for vengeance," your eyes widened suddenly, for those were your words, and something in their recital brought Marcus' head around.

"But for peace." His voice joined Vega's, and though the emotion that had been there brief moments ago was still there, it wasn't so raw. "Justice for the lost, and freedom for those who survived."

"We are but one example of humanity, of the generations untouched, but if you and I can remember that truth, so can they." Vega said. "But there's more, too. The world's discovery won't be from dry words on a page, it will come from a voice they trust. A voice they trusted to lead them into this war, and who has proven herself worthy time and again."

"All of us fear the fire and thorns that you spoke of, but some fear them more than others. And there's a reason for that." You stared at the young Harmonial, the entire room enraptured by the words falling freely from her lips, and the power dancing at the edge of them. Did she even know it was there, you wondered.

"Amanda didn't force those things back, Marcus. She didn't snuff out the rage, wash away the thirst for vengeance. Even if she'd been capable of doing so, she didn't have to." Five pairs of eyes snapped towards yours, all asking the same question, and you nodded once. You didn't have to speak, and that was good, because you didn't trust your voice right now.

"You mean," Kazuki got it first, at least you thought he did, and Vega nodded.

"We did it ourselves. Her appearance on the media screens helped, but that only informed humanity's resolution. It didn't create it." She looked down at the report, at the cold words spelling out nightmare, and shook her head. As if she was rejecting something, and maybe she was.

"You're right that telling humanity the truth now will give that fire fresh fuel, and sparks to set it rising again. But we've fought it once, and vanquished it without a single word of aid." A strange feeling overtook you, something very close to déjà vu, as Vega's words pushed back the spectres of horror.

"There will be grief." She said again. "Pain, anger, all things that will conspire to make us stumble. But we've fought those things before, we've been fighting them ever since the Week of Sorrows passed, and humanity was left to piece itself back together." Here it came. You felt the power inside her rush inwards, and if it wasn't perfect, well it had taken you decades to even realise you were doing it

"It might take time, and it will change us, but humanity will find its Harmony." An edge of power you'd never heard in another's voice swept out around Vega's words, Practice woven to a shell of sound in a way that made both far more. Marcus had asked for an answer, but in doing so he'd voiced a need of the entire room, too. And Vega, somehow, had been ready when you hadn't.

The silence stretched for more than a minute, and it was a far more comforting one. Then slowly, eyes turned to you. Vega had given Marcus far more in her answer you'd thought possible, and far more than she'd thought herself capable of. But it had been her answer, and in the end, it was yours that would matter when you stepped onto the stage in front of all humanity.

What would it be?

[] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.
[] Write-ins very much acceptable

This is a ranked vote. Please number by preference.
 
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This is what happens when a Harmonial rolls a nat 100 on a matter directly related to her Focus. I actually didn't have a concrete plan for this, which is why it took a bit longer than I'd have liked to work out the consequences of her roll.

Before anyone asks, yes, Vega is aware of what she just did, if only because of Kagiso and the links between the Two Twenty Three. She's nowhere near Amanda's level, but just the fact that she's made a breakthrough into the field stands to be enormously important in the long run.
 
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.

I see nearly everything Amanda has done as the continuation of her work.

This is what happens when a Harmonial rolls a nat 100 on a matter directly related to her Focus. I actually didn't have a concrete plan for this, which is why it took a bit longer than I'd have liked to work out the consequences of her roll.
I was worried about this choice, but damn.
 
Well, that certainly worked out better than any of us had a right to expect, and I had expected it to work out very well indeed.

Will have a write-in later tonight, when I'm not pecking away at a phone.
 
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[2] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.


A nat 100 on the speech? Nice. Wonder if we can get similar when Amanda gives her own to humanity in general?
 
[2] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.
 
[2] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.
 
Go, Vega. That was a very good speech.

The lack of evidence of Vampires was a core 'point': We do not know whats going on.

We don't know if there are vampires, we don't know that the Shiplords are evil, we know virtually nothing. The Shiplords could even turn out to be the rightful police of the galaxy and the whole initial invasion of earth could have been caused by some evil human going full Gendo Ikari and nearly ending all life in the galaxy. Perhaps they even 'warned' humanity but someone covered it up.

We are deep in the dark and I hate it.

Yes, I agree that what the Shiplords are doing appears to be wrong, and we should continue to defend ourselves from them. But we lack the information required to make good or 'Good' decisions. We need to and seek understanding quickly before we are forced to make bad and 'Evil' decisions.

That said, should we be able to confirm the Shiplords are just a race of massive jerks, I'll bring out my biggest hammer and start swinging.
The Tribute system is wrong. Period. Full stop. No excuses. That said, I fully agree that we need more information. Our decisions must be informed, and our response calculated to do the most good, with the least harm. We must rise above what the Shiplords are.

[2] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.
 
This is what happens when a Harmonial rolls a nat 100 on a matter directly related to her Focus. I actually didn't have a concrete plan for this, which is why it took a bit longer than I'd have liked to work out the consequences of her roll.

Before anyone asks, yes, Vega is aware of what she just did, if only because of Kagiso and the links between the Two Twenty Three. She's nowhere near Amanda's level, but just the fact that she's made a breakthrough into the field stands to be enormously important in the long run.
I was sitting here with an enormous grin and then started laughing when I read your A/N post afterward. A 100 nat crit on this? Holy hell hahah. Go Vega!

[2] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.
[] Write-ins very much acceptable

Current vote till the braintrust brains something
 
[2] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.

Harmonials are scary. It seems like their powers could easily drift into hive-mind territory. Practice Trances and the telepathy between Unisonbound are already hive-mind like. Yes, Harmonials are only supposed to put together what already can go together, but a malicious Harmonial with enough power could probably manipulate people into becoming cogs in a totalitarian machine against their will.
 
Harmonials are scary. It seems like their powers could easily drift into hive-mind territory. Practice Trances and the telepathy between Unisonbound are already hive-mind like. Yes, Harmonials are only supposed to put together what already can go together, but a malicious Harmonial with enough power could probably manipulate people into becoming cogs in a totalitarian machine against their will.
Fortunately this isn't Worm, or I'd be very worried about that exact scenario.
 
[2] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[1] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.
 
[3] Appeal to the past, to the work of the Elder First before you, and all they gave to rebuild a humanity that was more than just a weapon.
[2] You have spent decades of your life putting the world back together, and you trust that work deeply. Not all are part of the Circles, but the bond of humanity itself will be stronger than any rage.
[1] Write-In: "We have already taken steps toward harmony in a way that we as a people have never done before. You are completely correct, and I have faith that we aren't going to lose that unity. Humanity may never be truly ready for this revelation, but if there ever were a time, this is it. And there is no better time than now: It's a bitter truth, but our victory here may be the sweetener that mankind needs to help this medicine go down. Will we change? Perhaps, but we won't lose what makes us who we are."
 
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