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The Practice War [Complete]

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MTB said:
Why? Practice is what is different about humans and aliens (as far as we know from Insight). The way I read the updates the SL reacted adverse specifically to the use of Practice (first tribute fleet, second tribute fleet). Insight was nearly captured when trying to spy on the SL, which was either Insight looking into something else (like an uninvolved) or Insight looking into SL secrets which were hardened versus this type of intrusion. That's why I think it's "Potentials" that got that SL reaction.
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I think we are talking about different things.

In our current battle, we saw the Shiplords react sharply to our Practice Speaking. That tells us that the Shiplords view either all of Practice or at least just Practice Speaking as capital-I Important. From the final assult, we also saw that it was rage-inducing, at least to the leader.
What we don't know is why the shiplords view this as Important and Rage-inducing. @Baughn suggested that this might be because they thought we "were willing pawns" for the Shiplord's enemies. My objection was that this hypothesis first needs to suggest why seeing us do Practice made the shiplords think that we were pawns of their enemies (willing or not).
 
We don't even know if it's Practice or Word use itself that's rage-inducing. It could be how it's used, too. Could be something along the lines of: *spit-take* "Did she just twist the divine healing energy into a ship-busting tool of destruction? FUUUUUUUUU-"
 
I'm not sure if I agree primalshadow

It was basically WTF until we spoke purify it which point it was mindless rage until we spoke understand at which point they realized that they misunderstood and stopped. Given the hate didn't start with the 300 which were the first open use of practice and didn't stop when we spoke the word Bind but did stop with the word Understand it seems to me that it's not the practice or even speaking that they have a problem with but the specific word Purify and what it represents.

It seems to me that there are two options.

Speaking a word is in fact separate from practice. Practice is only one of the ways that you can use to reach the required enlightenment you need to learn to speak. They gained said enlightenment another way probably a longer one that has to do with religion and our using the word Purify while defining ourselves and the universe really pissed them off.

The second reason is that, just because they don't know how to use practice doesn't mean that they don't recognize the concept or the effects behind the word. If Purify happened to say alter the ship lords on the ship, or if speaking is a universal concept and they felt our absolute disgust and hatred for everything they were without context.

as for the interlude, the ship lords are not members of the uninvolved, but I would also like to see reaction shots from earth and what the insight focus got from things.
 
@Interlude - vignettes of a normal human (journal like?), starting with Amanda becoming president and ending with the reaction to the broadcast of the battle (result).
Also - the reaction to the body bags. Because the second battle was also bloody. And, unlike the first one, victorious.
 
I still think the Martyr thing the Shiplords have going on is important. They seem to get hurt/die when they use powers, and they consider that an acceptable cost, if "Willing Martyr" is any indication.

More speculation:
The rage started when Amanda used Purify and didn't die. She didn't power the effect with her own sacrifice, so what did she use? Obviously, she used the terrible, unholy, forbidden method X! *berserk*
Then, the Shiplord commander observes her using Understand. Here, Snowfire notes that the use of Understand is extremely obvious. The SL notices that she's not using method X as fuel. Where does the pity come in? She might be using something that it considers worse than dying, like using her own soul as fuel or something along those lines.
 
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I will point out to those citing "it wasn't rage until x" that you do have a rather powerful jamming field enclosing the solar system. This may have had an effect on their long range scans, and hidden both how advanced your fleet is and the considerable differences in construction involved. Also general energy signatures, although all Practice-hybrid vessels were held on stand-by alert until just before battle was joined.
 
Rask said:
Where does the pity come in? She might be using something that it considers worse than dying, like using her own soul as fuel or something along those lines.
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Or they only know about method a) (sacrifice), b) (abomination) and c) (crippling yourself or whatever), and we use d) which they don't know about.
Edit: Or it's a), just that we use up the soul (parts) of the dragons that sacrificed themselves to grant us Potentials. I think that'd be too dark for Snowfire to do ...
(I hope)
 
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TheEyes said:
Maybe when your soul is truly filled you Ascend or something, and go on to do whatever super-important thing that Uninvolved do, fighting demons or whatever on a higher plane of existence.
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TheEyes said:
fighting demons or whatever on a higher plane of existence.
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TheEyes said:
or whatever
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*completely ignores entire discussion*
Being actual magical girls. I mean, that's a possibility, right?
 
Baughn said:
That they think we'll eventually agree, though, is.
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Is it, though? That big of a surprise, that is. Consider that apparently there have been races that have 'transcended' the Shiplords' fleets, with the full intention of getting revenge... and yet they did not. We even speculated (or at least I remember doing so) that that might be because they realize that the Shiplords serve a vital role.

Baughn said:
They thought we were willing pawns. Their rage shifted to pity once they realized we're not.
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Now this is surprising... and intriguing; definitely food for thought. And here's one such thought...

So there's something that humanity touched on in the dark, when it was hunting for answers - something really bad. What if that same... force, race, entity, what-have-you... were able to suborn species, particularly ones that didn't really know what they were doing, through the Secrets. The Shiplords seem to see the Secrets (at the very least the one(s) which Practice and particularly Speaking arise from) as sacred... and yet able to be blasphemed; this is a power reserved only for the pure, the untainted - untainted by what, though? And that leads back to the 'greater evil' the Shiplords believe in.

Hmmm... a side thought - they have Tribute Fleets, and name them such... but in which direction does the "Tribute" flow? Does it refer to the flow of people to the Shiplords' purpose... or perhaps are the Fleets themselves a tribute to the Shiplords' (perhaps self-imposed) 'holy' purpose?

Postulate then that the Shiplords' purpose is to prevent a race to arise that's both powerful and a pawn of their 'enemy' (whatever its nature)... something like a cross between a quarantine and a damper. Races inclined to 'rise up' can only do so through extensive effort and they're provoked, tested and even forged into shape. Note that humanity was only forbidden to utilize the Secrets they already knew - they weren't forbidden from researching areas that lead to other Secrets. Now it could be a coincidence - that the ones that the Shiplords consider truly dangerous are those two (FTL, allowing a race to travel beyond their home system, and super-bio-engineering, allowing them to either masquerade or perhaps take on some shape or substance that leads to Bad Things). Or it could be that one purpose of the restrictions is to force a race to understand, if not all, then at least a significant number of the Secrets before they're able to reach the larger galaxy. In that case, perhaps the more Secrets a people grasp, the safer they are from... whatever is 'out there'. Or perhaps there's one or two Secrets in particular (say... Practice) that could allow a race to perceive the true danger and avoid it.

The destruction of races that don't fight back well enough could either be a culling of those that may never contribute to the 'grand war' or simply of those who would never be strong enough to resist... again, whatever the foe is. But that's back to speculation.

I wonder... what if Practiced humanity had failed this fight? Would Practice too be forbidden, forcing humanity to try and grasp yet another aspect of the universe to try and fight off the Tribute Fleets?

Moving back, the purpose of the Tribute Fleet/War Fleet structure. Obviously, a Tribute Fleet allows the Shiplords to check over a species (incidentally, all those taken? It could be a very comprehensive checking for hidden 'contamination'. If no contamination is found, eh, useful raw materials) - if the tributary race either demonstrates a refusal to obey the strictures or shows signs of influence by the 'enemy', then the War Fleet wipes them out. Humanity got a bit of an enhanced Tribute Fleet perhaps because there was a bit of a warning sign that required more serious attention (for example, destroying the observation infrastructure).

Now - the second Tribute Fleet was beaten back, and apparently something about Amanda's confrontation turned rage into pity. How will those two items impact the Shiplords' future actions? Will there be a third Tribute Fleet? If so, will it be the original strength, the same as this time or even stronger? Will it arrive sooner, same period or later? Heh... how often does a race fight off Fleet #2 (as opposed to Fleet #12, 23 or even greater)? Actually, how often does a race fight off Fleet #1?

Actually, I don't remember if it was mentioned, but do the Shiplords ever stop sending Tribute Fleets, even if a race never succeeds in fighting one off?
 
CircleTheSkies said:
Now it could be a coincidence - that the ones that the Shiplords consider truly dangerous are those two (FTL, allowing a race to travel beyond their home system, and super-bio-engineering, allowing them to either masquerade or perhaps take on some shape or substance that leads to Bad Things)
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From memory, we are forbidden:
1st secret, FTL
2nd secret, bio-engineering
AND 'to go beyond your star', which is partially redundant with the 1st secret. Which could support your hypothesis.
 
MTB said:
From memory, we are forbidden:
1st secret, FTL
2nd secret, bio-engineering
AND 'to go beyond your star', which is partially redundant with the 1st secret. Which could support your hypothesis.
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Thinking a bit more about it (and reading others' reactions)...

1. Humanity got Practice from the Dragons.
2. Practice (or some aspect of it) is a Big Deal to the Shiplords.
3. The Dragons were a product of the Second Secret.
4. (Speculation) Therefore, the Second Secret is probably a way to Practice. Other Secrets beyond the First may likewise offer a way to the same place. The First may not be unrelated either.
5. (Speculation) Perhaps Practice/Potential is not unlike the Warp/Psyker from Warhammer 40k in having a dark side or leaving oneself open to Very Alien and Unfriendly Things. Or leaving oneself open to becoming a Very Alien and Unfriendly Thing.
6. (Speculation) The taking of much of a tributary race's population might be a way to check for the influence of VAUTs. And hey, once examined, there's no reason to let the raw materials go to waste...
7. (Speculation) Speaking is a very advanced form of Practice, and not one expected in an 'untainted' race that didn't show any signs of such abilities only a few short years ago. Therefore, to the Shiplords, that suggests contamination or collaboration. Thus... rage.
8. (Speculation) An uncontaminated race showing such abilities is one that's flying high and flying fast... but without the wisdom of time and experience, is probably doomed to make fatal (and worse than fatal) mistakes regarding VAUTs. Thus... pity.
 
Snowfire, just how differently have our actions caused this battle to go form where you expected it to go?

Or maybe it's better to say, how many contingencies did we trigger?
 
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