"For all that I am,
I am not your enemy."

No. You leant forward, realising that there was an eleventh remaining, so quiet as to be almost silent. Sidra intensified your ties into the bridge recorders, focusing them onto the still falling helmet…that you weren't sure had really been a helmet. And that final word whispered.

"Believe."

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmno. Nice try, though.

:lol

More seriously, whatever they're talking about, I doubt that their purpose is grand enough to excuse what they've done. They'll have to come up with something truly special to actually make us believe that.
 
And we're playing into their enemies hands; this, too, is not a surprise, and may be good or bad.

They thought we were willing pawns. Their rage shifted to pity once they realized we're not.
This hypothesis seems to provide a pretty good explanation for the rage -> pity shift, but I'm confused about where it is coming from. AFAIK we haven't even come into contact with the Shiplord's enemies, much less gotten anything from them - so what would make the Shiplords here think that we were somehow aligned?
 
If they are trying to keep people from attracting something much much worse...
This is also the first thing to come to my mind yes. Ignorance, fear and scars from a possibly endless conflict tend to make very good zealots.

Assuming of course that it's actually the shiplord itself that said it and not something else hijacking it for a joy ride.

Also assuming that the shiplord actually knows the whole picture and is not just another puppet dancing to the tune of a different master.

Or in other words, we still know jack shit, beyond that shiplords, when asked for the truth, will speak in poems and pities us.
 
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Well, that created a whole lot more questions than it answered.

First interpretation attempt:

Amanda: "I want to UNDERSTAND!"
Shiplord Deity: *parses this as prayer for enlightenment, is intrigued*
SL commander: *looks up as it feels its god's attention*
Shiplord Deity: "Minion! Transmit my words to the sad little limited monkey-thing that's trying so hard!"
SL commander: *is promoted to prophet, briefly*
 
That was everything I could have hoped for. I... I just don't know what it was, yet.

Then this update did exactly what I wanted it to.

No, really.

Amanda will come out of this with a bit more understanding of the words that were spoken, what they mean, and a little of why they were said. It helps that the internally focused word basically turned her into Tattletale for a short space of time (her power, not the other issues :p). That will be partially addressed in the next update, and more deeply covered in the one after that. Which may end up being split in two, depending on how I decide to write it. You will also be getting an action in Turn 11 to hand the recording to some Insight Focused and see what they can get from it.
 
Yep, this is looking less like Shiplords as the Adamant plugs sealing off hell and more Shiplords as Ethereals. They know/believe that something nasty is out there and will eventually come for the galaxy, but have gone so far that they've lost any vestige of morality and can't even manage to understand people akin to what they probably once were without external space-magic assistance.

Would also explain the state of affairs in the broader galaxy where the species that got out from under their bootheel hate their guts but don't want to try taking them on, which suggests that there's some truth in there, however distorted.

And before the inevitable reply: we got this while mainlining space magic intended to help us understand them, there's a much lower probability of deception making it through than in purely mechanical communication.
 
This hypothesis seems to provide a pretty good explanation for the rage -> pity shift, but I'm confused about where it is coming from. AFAIK we haven't even come into contact with the Shiplord's enemies, much less gotten anything from them - so what would make the Shiplords here think that we were somehow aligned?
Practice. It was the Dragon's gift to us, but where do you think they got it from? There's no way we actually got something the Shiplords haven't managed in millions of years out of some basic Second Secret lifeforms.
 
There is always the potential of the shiplords trying to stop civs reaching mimetic hazards or trying to stop chaos God like entities through stopping people finding A secret that is the hazard /get the chaos God like entities attention. They could be using rule utilitarianism in A it causes least pain through this Action.
 
Definitely possible. I'm reminded of the saying "Needs must when the devil drives." The Shiplords do seem to be doing a very good job at being the devil in the idiom, to the point that they may have been designed for that purpose.
Yep, this is looking less like Shiplords as the Adamant plugs sealing off hell and more Shiplords as Ethereals. They know/believe that something nasty is out there and will eventually come for the galaxy, but have gone so far that they've lost any vestige of morality and can't even manage to understand people akin to what they probably once were without external space-magic assistance.
There is always the potential of the shiplords trying to stop civs reaching mimetic hazards or trying to stop chaos God like entities through stopping people finding A secret that is the hazard /get the chaos God like entities attention. They could be using rule utilitarianism in A it causes least pain through this Action.
They're trying to pull a Zero Requiem.

Shiplords died for our sins!
 
That they think we'll eventually agree, though, is.
The races becoming uninvolved to be able to fight them didn't - they may have a point.
so what would make the Shiplords here think that we were somehow aligned
Potentials.
That will be partially addressed in the next update, and more deeply covered in the one after that.
Stating the results of the sessions with the Insight-focused?

I think the SL found a solution to a problem and stopped looking for a better one. Like "to stop the WH40K Chaos we just have to kill all souled life" - that's a solution to a problem, just not a very good one (if you happen to have a soul, that is).
 
Obviously. I mean what ABOUT potentials would make it seem like we are aligned with the Shiplords' enemies? It would be bizarre to think that we share our main power with said enemies and that this is by pure happenstance. I.e. if you want to make the claim that the Shiplords recognize Practice as something that their enemies use, you need to posit a hypothesis for WHY we happen to have it.

Practice. It was the Dragon's gift to us, but where do you think they got it from? There's no way we actually got something the Shiplords haven't managed in millions of years out of some basic Second Secret lifeforms.
Plausible, but I don't think this conjecture is sturdy enough to actually rely on. At best, it is enough to give us a possibility to consider.
 
Okay. A lot of this for me hinges on one question:

is the use of biomass to heal their ships optimal or incidental? Are they deliberately casting themselves as the bad guys by being monstrous, or is there some metaphysical property of human bodies that makes them unusually suited to the task? The former is indeterminate, but the second should be within the realm of in-setting science. (I had suspected before this chapter that their biotech healing only works because of humans' Practice potential.) As such, I believe we should spend at least some research effort on it, because on its face it is an absurd technology akin to the humans-as-batteries story.

Saying they are not our enemy seems to exclude the "optimal" case, since that would be a simple "fight for scarce resources" scenario that would be hard to cast as "not our enemy". But they might be radical utilitarians.
 
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They probably thought that the abilities of Potentials are Chtulhu derived and they are the misled Mid-Childa's of this multiverse-tree :D
 
Obviously. I mean what ABOUT potentials would make it seem like we are aligned with the Shiplords' enemies? It would be bizarre to think that we share our main power with said enemies and that this is by pure happenstance. I.e. if you want to make the claim that the Shiplords recognize Practice as something that their enemies use, you need to posit a hypothesis for WHY we happen to have it.
Why? Practice is what is different about humans and aliens (as far as we know from Insight). The way I read the updates the SL reacted adverse specifically to the use of Practice (first tribute fleet, second tribute fleet). Insight was nearly captured when trying to spy on the SL, which was either Insight looking into something else (like an uninvolved) or Insight looking into SL secrets which were hardened versus this type of intrusion. That's why I think it's "Potentials" that got that SL reaction.
Okay. A lot of this for me hinges on one question:

is the use of biomass to heal their ships optimal or incidental? Are they deliberately casting themselves as the bad guys by being monstrous, or is there some metaphysical property of human bodies that makes them unusually suited to the task? The former is indeterminate, but the second should be within the realm of in-setting science. As such, I believe we should spend at least some research effort on it, because on its face it is an absurd technology akin to the humans-as-batteries story.
I think every tribute fleet's tribute is used like this, not just the human one. And the difference we are aware between artificial biomass and natural is that the artifical one doesn't have soul.
 
So they need souls for thier ships to be repaired.
It seems to me if you are that evil, it wouod be easier to break the minds of those captured and breed them like cattle.
Then you don't have to waste resources fighting for more.
 
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Then they still probably don't need to take these measures. What possible need could there be for liquifying billions?

I mean, we might find out, but my immediate reaction is 'nope'.

Understandable but I don't think we have time for "Nope" until we can answer "What the hell is going on?"

At the very least there is a massive, massive, amount of ignorance and a possible alien blue-orange morality difference going on.
Perhaps the Shiplords have high end soul tech and before they liquidated the bodies they shucked the souls out of them like peanuts and sent them on to the afterlife.
Perhaps the afterlife is actually something so bad that binding them into a hellish abomination was the kindest thing the Shiplords could do.
Maybe they needed a backscratcher built from the fingernails of a left-handed dancing cop serenaded by a million orane*l humans as the F@olosm emerged from the El#sof to ensure the Galactic sessions turned properly, ensuring the Eld Ones's discarded go%sa&&43 didn't activate and Halop everyone to Grumph.

Either way this is deep WTF territory.
 
That's why 'get Insight back online' and 'find allies' will be competing for upper topmost priority.
 
Okay. A lot of this for me hinges on one question:

is the use of biomass to heal their ships optimal or incidental? Are they deliberately casting themselves as the bad guys by being monstrous, or is there some metaphysical property of human bodies that makes them unusually suited to the task? The former is indeterminate, but the second should be within the realm of in-setting science. (I had suspected before this chapter that their biotech healing only works because of humans' Practice potential.) As such, I believe we should spend at least some research effort on it, because on its face it is an absurd technology akin to the humans-as-batteries story.

Saying they are not our enemy seems to exclude the "optimal" case, since that would be a simple "fight for scarce resources" scenario that would be hard to cast as "not our enemy". But they might be radical utilitarians.
Not only humans.

And given that this setting has space magic I'm disinclined to believe that only humanity and the Shiplords are able to use it. I suspect that they do it because it's an extremely potent source of power and they don't expect the races they've newly subjugated to be able to notice or understand what they've done, which is probably part of why this one was so conciliatory: the direct application of Practice in a nonviolent manner in the physical presence of one of them was enough to get through to them that we do know what they're doing. The earlier castigation was probably because they thought we were just using Practice as a crude bludgeon. Remember, if you aren't hypersensitive to the space magic, you don't even have an inkling that they use people slurry to network their ships with magic powers. Presumably once a species is advanced enough they can do what this humanity is already doing by applying that power directly and individually.

I seriously doubt it's intentional evil (most species won't notice it when that would be advantageous rather than detrimental), and it's likely only more efficient than not using Practice at all. So they are already taking billions of people who are otherwise without a role in their plan, but can be used to power up their ships, seems to be avoiding wastage as much as anything else.
 
"For all that I am,
I am not your enemy."
This brings about a whole new dimension as to why former tributes that break off from the Shiplords doesn't go and gang up on them despite everything that had happened. This meant that the former tributes also know of this. For all that they will go and find tributes like Earth and aid them, they know of the protocol and how the script of the show goes, so to speak. The question is, will they tolerate us going off the proverbial script by say, breaking the Secrets?
 
So... I'm exceptionally proud of coming up with the idea that won us the battle. XD I didn't think it would work THAT well! (I wonder what plans of @Snowfire's got abandoned as a result of this. :p )

This also puts credit towards my "cosmic drill instructor" hypothesis -- every Marine I've ever met has hated their drill instructor during boot camp but come out the other end having a totally positive opinion of him afterward.

Nitpick: "mimetic" hazards are things like camouflaged predators like monsters that disguise themselves as treasure chests. You're looking for "memetic" hazards, which take effect through mental processes.
 
Obviously. I mean what ABOUT potentials would make it seem like we are aligned with the Shiplords' enemies? It would be bizarre to think that we share our main power with said enemies and that this is by pure happenstance. I.e. if you want to make the claim that the Shiplords recognize Practice as something that their enemies use, you need to posit a hypothesis for WHY we happen to have it.
Another possibility is that Practice isn't the ability of the Enemy, but of the Uninvolved. Remember that the reason we have Practice is that our souls are "half-filled". Maybe when your soul is truly filled you Ascend or something, and go on to do whatever super-important thing that Uninvolved do, fighting demons or whatever on a higher plane of existence. Under this theory, the reason the Commander was pissed off at us is he thought we were ready to move on to that next adventure, but instead here we are scrubbing along toying with the minor leagues. What Amanda's question did was tell the Shiplords that we're actually not 'persisting' with the 'Gift': we are, rather, still developing said Gift and don't even know what's going on enough to be qualified to Ascend or whatever.
 
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