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The Passing of Beautiful Histories (Civ Quest)
- Thread starter Powerofmind
- Start date
- Original
-
- Tags
- civilization civ quest
- Location
- his hidden lair
[X] Plan Foundations
-[X] Grant Land to Veteran Warriors (-Martial, +Economy)
-[X] [Diplomat] Rebuild the boats [one left] (-Economy, ++Wealth) [Restores Trade Projects]
-[X] Quarry the stone at Anye (-Economy, ???)
-[X] Settle [region] (-Economy, +??? later) [South Plain (economic)
Best to establish certain limitations on the Oracle when it's a weak and ineffectual one largely disliked by many different factions. Appeasement here is incredibly counterproductive. Currently her own support base disdains her, and our civilians, who like a certain degree of asceticism and austerity after the disaster aren't going to place great stock in the Oracle's demands to be housed in utter splendor.
If we can get the priests to push out this Oracle and institute a new one, we've prevented the rift from growing and established the King's authority further over Gadawa. To give her so grand a temple to essentially rule from would only further legitimize her over a distant king.
-[X] Grant Land to Veteran Warriors (-Martial, +Economy)
-[X] [Diplomat] Rebuild the boats [one left] (-Economy, ++Wealth) [Restores Trade Projects]
-[X] Quarry the stone at Anye (-Economy, ???)
-[X] Settle [region] (-Economy, +??? later) [South Plain (economic)
Best to establish certain limitations on the Oracle when it's a weak and ineffectual one largely disliked by many different factions. Appeasement here is incredibly counterproductive. Currently her own support base disdains her, and our civilians, who like a certain degree of asceticism and austerity after the disaster aren't going to place great stock in the Oracle's demands to be housed in utter splendor.
If we can get the priests to push out this Oracle and institute a new one, we've prevented the rift from growing and established the King's authority further over Gadawa. To give her so grand a temple to essentially rule from would only further legitimize her over a distant king.
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I'm thinking we'll want to finish boats regardless. For the Whail.
If we want to reduce economic dependance on Gadawa, we'll need to either give the warriors land(seeding an aristocracy?) or settle the southern plains.
However, i'd rather fortify Anye before we settle further and start the next settlement with a shrine and fortification, see if we can integrate the infrastructure, so I'd prefer giving land to the warriors for now as our econ booster.
Quarry or Palace are both fine, just keep in mind that Quarry means 4th action, which will probably carry an economy cost.
As for the Oracle, she's probably easier to isolate from the public if she lived in a big temple. Given that the current one is not very well-liked at the moment, Big Temple now might not mean Strong Oracle-Pope.
If we want to reduce economic dependance on Gadawa, we'll need to either give the warriors land(seeding an aristocracy?) or settle the southern plains.
However, i'd rather fortify Anye before we settle further and start the next settlement with a shrine and fortification, see if we can integrate the infrastructure, so I'd prefer giving land to the warriors for now as our econ booster.
Quarry or Palace are both fine, just keep in mind that Quarry means 4th action, which will probably carry an economy cost.
As for the Oracle, she's probably easier to isolate from the public if she lived in a big temple. Given that the current one is not very well-liked at the moment, Big Temple now might not mean Strong Oracle-Pope.
Having slept on it, I take issue with plan Afford The Gods.
Our economy is Strained, our Wealth is Moderate, our Trade fleets are depleted and the 2-option project only starts the Great Temple, so it would most likely require further investment.
Also, the Temple costs --Econ and --Wealth. With our good Martial pool, the Palace is more affordable. And wiith how good Boats are for regional dominance, the Harbour is probably more useful.
In my eyes, @Omegahugger is starting the wrong Megaproject and is starting it 1-2 turns before we can truly afford one.
Hell, even the Law would probably be better. Reform the Government so we aren't constantly nearing collapse if we don't appease the strongest faction enough.
If we want Legitimacy or Stability, either hope the Oracle wizens up with age(or wait for the next one) and build a shrine in the new village next turn.
[] Plan Foundations.
Part approval, I might try to make a different plan later.
Edit, made my own plans.
Our economy is Strained, our Wealth is Moderate, our Trade fleets are depleted and the 2-option project only starts the Great Temple, so it would most likely require further investment.
Also, the Temple costs --Econ and --Wealth. With our good Martial pool, the Palace is more affordable. And wiith how good Boats are for regional dominance, the Harbour is probably more useful.
In my eyes, @Omegahugger is starting the wrong Megaproject and is starting it 1-2 turns before we can truly afford one.
Hell, even the Law would probably be better. Reform the Government so we aren't constantly nearing collapse if we don't appease the strongest faction enough.
If we want Legitimacy or Stability, either hope the Oracle wizens up with age(or wait for the next one) and build a shrine in the new village next turn.
[] Plan Foundations.
Part approval, I might try to make a different plan later.
Edit, made my own plans.
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Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
Yeah, Omega is aware, they just don't care. Megaprojects Before Reason is their whole shtick, after all.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
It's not my only schtick you know... It is the major one, but not the only one.
Besides, I've laid out my reasons already. People say "just wait for a more reasonable oracle", but that assumes that a more reasonable oracle will come around in time. Considering that the Oracle's defining character traits are "is a young girl" and "has a direct hotline to the Twenty and Five", there isn't quite a selection for reasonability.
[X] Plan Foundations
Our situation has created a strong sympathy vote amongst the clergy.
You... could call for a motion of no confidence in the Oracle's leadership.
"I love autocracy, I love our despotism. The power you give me, I won't lay down once this crisis has abated." and all that.
- Location
- nz
[X] Plan Foundations.
But seriously, part of our military flat-out disbanded when their leaders died and the depleted trade fleets have been an issue for a while now(with nearby factions suffering during the lack of trade), so Boats and granting Land to the Warriors are pretty important for countering faction decay.
Granting land also means either farming around Maye(making Gadawa stop being our Econ Hegemon) and/or splitting up the Gadawa farmlands(making the Warrior faction a good counter-influencer to the Oracle over Gadawa).
And I'll point out that the legal reform is a Megaproject that can be Hero-boosted with Hiaga the diplomat Hero. If we want to go for a Megaproject? Go for the Law.
For now though? My ideal would be:
[X] Plan Anye and Aristocracy
-[X] Grant Land to Veteran Warriors (-Martial, +Economy)
-[X] Fortify [Anye] (-Economy, -Martial, +Martial later) [Anye]
-[X] Quarry the stone at Anye (-Economy, ???)
-[X][Diplomat] Rebuild the boats [one left] (-Economy, ++Wealth) [Restores Trade Projects]
-3 Econ, -2 Martial, +1 Martial, +1 Econ, +2 Wealth, +???.
Finish building infrastructure before expanding, try to build the new village along with the new infrastructure next turn so we can start early on integrating fort+temple into "village."
If we want to go for a Megaproject?
[X] Plan Eiza Hiaga the Magnificent
-[X] Grant Land to Veteran Warriors (-Martial, +Economy)
-[X] Rebuild the boats [one left] (-Economy, ++Wealth) [Restores Trade Projects]
-[X][Diplomat] Codify the rules of conduct in the wake of the lawless excesses of the old clans, preventing such things from happening again. Imbue in scrolls every law of the Mayep as from the lips of it's Lord. (+?-Economy/Wealth/Stability/Legitimacy???, counts as two projects, might require extra attention, completes a Code of Laws)
-1 Martial, -1 Economy, -??? +1 Economy, +2 Wealth, +???
And, continuing my approval-boat for:
[X] Plan Foundations.
Edit: Cleaned up my plans for posterity
Granting land also means either farming around Maye(making Gadawa stop being our Econ Hegemon) and/or splitting up the Gadawa farmlands(making the Warrior faction a good counter-influencer to the Oracle over Gadawa).
And I'll point out that the legal reform is a Megaproject that can be Hero-boosted with Hiaga the diplomat Hero. If we want to go for a Megaproject? Go for the Law.
For now though? My ideal would be:
[X] Plan Anye and Aristocracy
-[X] Grant Land to Veteran Warriors (-Martial, +Economy)
-[X] Fortify [Anye] (-Economy, -Martial, +Martial later) [Anye]
-[X] Quarry the stone at Anye (-Economy, ???)
-[X][Diplomat] Rebuild the boats [one left] (-Economy, ++Wealth) [Restores Trade Projects]
-3 Econ, -2 Martial, +1 Martial, +1 Econ, +2 Wealth, +???.
Finish building infrastructure before expanding, try to build the new village along with the new infrastructure next turn so we can start early on integrating fort+temple into "village."
If we want to go for a Megaproject?
[X] Plan Eiza Hiaga the Magnificent
-[X] Grant Land to Veteran Warriors (-Martial, +Economy)
-[X] Rebuild the boats [one left] (-Economy, ++Wealth) [Restores Trade Projects]
-[X][Diplomat] Codify the rules of conduct in the wake of the lawless excesses of the old clans, preventing such things from happening again. Imbue in scrolls every law of the Mayep as from the lips of it's Lord. (+?-Economy/Wealth/Stability/Legitimacy???, counts as two projects, might require extra attention, completes a Code of Laws)
-1 Martial, -1 Economy, -??? +1 Economy, +2 Wealth, +???
And, continuing my approval-boat for:
[X] Plan Foundations.
Edit: Cleaned up my plans for posterity
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Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Let's see what we have.
Going well, then. I'll leave it a day for straggler voting and what have we.
Going well, then. I'll leave it a day for straggler voting and what have we.
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The Usurper Oracle and Monarchial Madness
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
In King Eiza's day, all of the Mayep seemed plagued by trouble after trouble. Everything he tried to do to help the people seemed cursed with confusion, infighting, and failure. He planned the building of a new city to the south, but the land wasn't as easy to work as Gadawa, and laziness or dry weather seemed to be unending issues in the region. To fix it, Eiza offered many incentives to the warriors and warleaders, offering land to work for a short term of duty... only, the settlers already there became furious when the warriors pushing them to work began claiming the best lands, causing unrest and conflict.
The troubles only grew from there, as flooding ruined the early crops for the new city at Dalwa, or beasts would take the pastured animals from under their shepherds' noses. Reports and requests poured from Anye, begging for more and more aid from Gadawa and the central granaries as manpower shortages seemed to constantly set back Hiaga's progress with the boats and new stone quarry. Strained to the limit, the meager stores of food in Maye's granary and the farms of Gadawa eventually broke under the crushing force of a brutal heatwave one summer.
The granaries slowly emptied, herds were culled to the smallest necessary numbers of breeding stock, and about the only good thing to come from it all was a timely development of incredible new fishing tools, nets dozens of armspans long made at the behest of Hiaga, that could pull bounties from the sea and river large enough to keep thousands of peasants from simply shriveling away, or storming what was left of the grain stores.
And then it happened the next year. And the next. And the next. At first, people hadn't worried so much. The sudden influx of fish at Anye and Maye covered for Gadawa's failings, and the heat was not unbearable with the river so close. By the third consecutive year, the river level had dropped somewhat, and fish were migrating elsewhere, though Anye still had a bounty. By the fifth year of scorching heat, as many people had died simply from sweating their life out as had died from starvation or illness. By the sixth, fear had set in and become pervasive, fingers began to point...
And the Oracle of Gadawa made for an easy target. Desperate men and women pressed in towards the Gadawa temple, guarded by the king's men and his youngest grandson. They screamed and wailed, and at their head was a growing number of sages from the other temples, touting a new Oracle of their own. The grandson and commander had thus far been able to cool their tempers, but on the second month of rising tension, the spirits-damned Oracle had stepped into the public despite all insistence otherwise, and had been thoroughly embarrassed by the usurping child in a battle of words, undoing all of his hard work. His grandfather, the King, had sent more men to keep things from escalating, and it seemed to work.
Until the Second Words. The Usurper had stepped forward and claimed the Oracle had offered herself up to bad spirits, and in doing so offered up the whole of the people to their machinations as well. Further, she said that the Heir had also been corrupted, and that by the voices of her sages she had seen the commander of the local forces at Gadawa, the Youngest Son of the Youngest Son of the King, chosen by the first Oracle, was a pure, virtuous choice for the new Heir. Almost immediately the angry populace had stopped their rebellion and pledged support for Selja of Maye, who was commander of the local garrison, which put him in a very awkward position, especially when word came down from the capital that his grandfather and uncle, the Heir, were not happy with this turn of events, even as more and more of their local sages threw in their support for the Usurper's faction, pulling a lot of people with them.
His position became even more precarious when the Oracle retorted with a threat to make the drought last a hundred years unless the Usurper was beheaded and her entrails spilled across the floor of the temple. Her threat had the opposite effect of her intention, and even Selja's own men begged him to usurp the old Oracle and storm the temple, echoing the sages' words that her threat implicated her in causing the Mayep's troubles to begin with.
Faced with many pressing voices and dwindling options, Selja chooses to:
[] Storm the Temple, raise the Usurper, and kill the Cursed Oracle.
[] Outwardly obey the wishes of the king and keep the peace, but put pressure on the Gadawa Faction to fold in debates.
[] Obey his grandfather's wishes, and try to keep the peace. Let things sort themselves out in the debates between the temple factions.
[] Obey his grandfather's wishes and keep the peace, but put pressure on the Usurper Faction to fold in debates.
[] Crack down on the Usurper, and follow the Oracle's guidance.
AN: Well. That's an interesting turn of events.
The troubles only grew from there, as flooding ruined the early crops for the new city at Dalwa, or beasts would take the pastured animals from under their shepherds' noses. Reports and requests poured from Anye, begging for more and more aid from Gadawa and the central granaries as manpower shortages seemed to constantly set back Hiaga's progress with the boats and new stone quarry. Strained to the limit, the meager stores of food in Maye's granary and the farms of Gadawa eventually broke under the crushing force of a brutal heatwave one summer.
The granaries slowly emptied, herds were culled to the smallest necessary numbers of breeding stock, and about the only good thing to come from it all was a timely development of incredible new fishing tools, nets dozens of armspans long made at the behest of Hiaga, that could pull bounties from the sea and river large enough to keep thousands of peasants from simply shriveling away, or storming what was left of the grain stores.
And then it happened the next year. And the next. And the next. At first, people hadn't worried so much. The sudden influx of fish at Anye and Maye covered for Gadawa's failings, and the heat was not unbearable with the river so close. By the third consecutive year, the river level had dropped somewhat, and fish were migrating elsewhere, though Anye still had a bounty. By the fifth year of scorching heat, as many people had died simply from sweating their life out as had died from starvation or illness. By the sixth, fear had set in and become pervasive, fingers began to point...
And the Oracle of Gadawa made for an easy target. Desperate men and women pressed in towards the Gadawa temple, guarded by the king's men and his youngest grandson. They screamed and wailed, and at their head was a growing number of sages from the other temples, touting a new Oracle of their own. The grandson and commander had thus far been able to cool their tempers, but on the second month of rising tension, the spirits-damned Oracle had stepped into the public despite all insistence otherwise, and had been thoroughly embarrassed by the usurping child in a battle of words, undoing all of his hard work. His grandfather, the King, had sent more men to keep things from escalating, and it seemed to work.
Until the Second Words. The Usurper had stepped forward and claimed the Oracle had offered herself up to bad spirits, and in doing so offered up the whole of the people to their machinations as well. Further, she said that the Heir had also been corrupted, and that by the voices of her sages she had seen the commander of the local forces at Gadawa, the Youngest Son of the Youngest Son of the King, chosen by the first Oracle, was a pure, virtuous choice for the new Heir. Almost immediately the angry populace had stopped their rebellion and pledged support for Selja of Maye, who was commander of the local garrison, which put him in a very awkward position, especially when word came down from the capital that his grandfather and uncle, the Heir, were not happy with this turn of events, even as more and more of their local sages threw in their support for the Usurper's faction, pulling a lot of people with them.
His position became even more precarious when the Oracle retorted with a threat to make the drought last a hundred years unless the Usurper was beheaded and her entrails spilled across the floor of the temple. Her threat had the opposite effect of her intention, and even Selja's own men begged him to usurp the old Oracle and storm the temple, echoing the sages' words that her threat implicated her in causing the Mayep's troubles to begin with.
Faced with many pressing voices and dwindling options, Selja chooses to:
[] Storm the Temple, raise the Usurper, and kill the Cursed Oracle.
[] Outwardly obey the wishes of the king and keep the peace, but put pressure on the Gadawa Faction to fold in debates.
[] Obey his grandfather's wishes, and try to keep the peace. Let things sort themselves out in the debates between the temple factions.
[] Obey his grandfather's wishes and keep the peace, but put pressure on the Usurper Faction to fold in debates.
[] Crack down on the Usurper, and follow the Oracle's guidance.
AN: Well. That's an interesting turn of events.
[X] Outwardly obey the wishes of the king and keep the peace, but put pressure on the Gadawa Faction to fold in debates.
[X] Obey his grandfather's wishes, and try to keep the peace. Let things sort themselves out in the debates between the temple factions.
These two options are what I'm willing to vote on but my God the disaster and drought permeating throughout the land. We either need to use the army and force them tribute in food and create an even larger fleet to sea.
[X] Obey his grandfather's wishes, and try to keep the peace. Let things sort themselves out in the debates between the temple factions.
These two options are what I'm willing to vote on but my God the disaster and drought permeating throughout the land. We either need to use the army and force them tribute in food and create an even larger fleet to sea.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Storm the Temple, raise the Usurper, and kill the Cursed Oracle.
Clearly the spirits of displeased with the current order and have made it known.
Clearly.
Clearly the spirits of displeased with the current order and have made it known.
Clearly.
Oh wow, interesting times indeed. Maybe we should aim to keep our resource pools a bit further above depletion levels in the future?
Hrm, any way this goes, it seems like this would cause a stability hit. So we'll probably need a temple in the new town... and probably an econ option as a secondary to fill the food stores back up.
If we want to go for a Megaproject, I recommend starting the Grand Docks instead of the temple. Boats are an acceptable method or worship and probably better for getting food and wealth. Especially now that we've gotten a decent fishing tech.
On the other hand, if we're not going for a megaproject, we could Expand the Forces and Subjugate a neighbour for Wealth and Econ.
@Powerofmind is the Usurper a Great Person?
Hrm, any way this goes, it seems like this would cause a stability hit. So we'll probably need a temple in the new town... and probably an econ option as a secondary to fill the food stores back up.
If we want to go for a Megaproject, I recommend starting the Grand Docks instead of the temple. Boats are an acceptable method or worship and probably better for getting food and wealth. Especially now that we've gotten a decent fishing tech.
On the other hand, if we're not going for a megaproject, we could Expand the Forces and Subjugate a neighbour for Wealth and Econ.
@Powerofmind is the Usurper a Great Person?
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
No, but that doesn't preclude her being better than your current Oracle (it really doesn't take much to be better than your current Oracle).