The Long Night Part Two: Sparks at Midnight: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k)

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Well, that's both hilarious and deeply frustrating at the same time. I guess the obvious thing to do would be to upgrade the defences of more of our Hives? Or we could take some of the actions to implement the Remnant Battle Rifle? IIRC we've put off doing that.
Look at the plan I've done just that to the point where I've maxed out munitorum.
Actually I would like to do Fortress Hive Design. It is very easy to imagine some of our Hives being destroyed in the Incursion, so having this design ready for rebuilding seems more useful than a better admin multiplier at this point in time.
Good point ya I'll do that.
 
Hail is resource expensive. This is not surprising, Nova Cannon lacks the Expensive tag but is not supposed to have a Light Cruiser build around it.
I think it's also not neccessarily only about how many resources, but also the fact that Hails can be built in small shipyards, and CP of small shipyards is very cheap completely.
 
After all that thinking on naval reactors, have decided to see if I can't brainstorm some interesting new ones.

Some assumptions and thoughts:
Known reactor variables: Power, HP, Hulks, Stealth, Cost
Stable (+HP/Hulks) and energetic reactors are hard (according to Durin on Discord)
+/-HP and +/- Hulks are linked
Stealth is linked with low power and high stability
Possible additional reactor variables: +Merely Crippled, -Stealth/+Targeting Size

My first idea is many small redundant reactors. Very low power production, and I am actually thinking +HP -Hulks. Because the ship Will. Just. Not. Die. and taking a long time to kill it means +HP. But by the time it dies, there is not much of a ship left, so -Hulk.
Edit: Could possibly multiply total HP, as it would benefit greatly from a more durable hull such as from Sturdy or UD Body.
Very Low Power, Extreme +HP/xHP, -Hulks

Second is a reactor that is easy to knock out, but without it going boom so it would have that that +Merely Crippled rule of Hails. Neutronium Reactor that I proposed for the Conclave perhaps, most of it would be made of massively powerful grav effectors crushing matter into neutronium the destruction of which should not cause any major blowup, there would be very little volatile fuel in existence at any one time due to manufacturing it moments before using it up. large +Hulks alongside the +Merely Crippled because it mostly just turns off if damaged.
? Power, -HP?, +Merely Crippled, +++Hulks

A -Stealth reactor with massively obvious emissions and likely instability that would increase the ships maximum targeting size in exchange for Power. What this would do is allow the enemy to prioritize targeting the ship more if they want to, as being easily visible and targetable means nothing if you don't feel like shooting it so because of this and the instability it would not be useable in tanks. So a ship with this reactor would be fragile, very powerful, and focus fired upon unless its an unattractive target which that large +Power would make rather difficult.
+++Power, --HP/Hulks, -Stealth/+Maximum Targeting Size

A low power reactor that halves the cost of -Power modifiers. Gravity Engines halve speed penalties rule gave me the idea, such a ship would need to get power from Depower modifiers and maybe UDL but if you can scrounge up that Power somehow it could result in something nasty. The only idea fluff wise I have is that its made of many specialized reactors, with say a plasma one producing exactly the kind of plasma that Phased Plasma Batteries use instead of electricity, gravitons for gravity drives, etc. This fluff would likely mean +Cost but also stable.
-Power, Halve? -Power, +HP/Hulks?

Another possibility is to instead double or more the +Power from Depower traits, but I'm not sure how to fluff it. Would result in quite the specialists. Edit: Would need to make an exception regarding Depower Engines otherwise you can get Power by mounting powerful ones and taking this modifier.

Different kind of reactors interacting differently with the ships parts. Like, graviton reactor boosting speed if used with a gravitic engine, some kind of ion reactor with ion integrity field based ship durability modifier/armor plating and ion weapons, interaction with certain weapons making them cost fewer Weapons, that kind of think. Could result in some fun puzzles of matching reactors to what weapons, engines, etc we want to build, might be too complex for Durin to balance though. We have a single example of this with Annihilation Reactor ships not needing to pay -5% HP to mount Ragnarok Cannon, but needless to say thats never come up in practice and never will.

Warp Reactors were noted as powerful and stable, but incapable of warp travel and beyond our ability because daemons. If the latter was resolved, such as with a Primal Warp Reactor, it could have the No Warp rule and be excellent for defense ships.
++Power, ++HP/Hulks, No Warp
 
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I think it's also not neccessarily only about how many resources, but also the fact that Hails can be built in small shipyards, and CP of small shipyards is very cheap completely.
I compared Hails %CP to that of Golem and Zephyr which require the same shipyards though, there is a -5-6% difference.
 
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A Conversation
A Conversation

Rotbart wasn't looking forward to this. Well, he had been expecting it, or something like it. A meeting with the Krork, Eldar and Avernites over the coming Storm. But this? Everyone with the sole and singular exception of Areatha preoccupied? With all the seers present? It might not be obvious, but he was fairly sure it was at least common knowledge that he found Areatha's personality.. incompatible, to say the least. She was so optimistic that he sometimes he actually wondered sometimes if she was intentionally playing a caricature of herself just for him as a prank. He did not put it past her. Her love of knowledge at least he found somewhat more understandable of late.

Well, he might find her distasteful, but he could make conversation nevertheless. Deep breaths.

"Areatha." Politeness goes a long way to maintaining civilized and non-heated arguments about morality, ethics and pragmatism.

"Rotbart." She seemed to understand the intent. No barbs, just small talk until more compatible conversational partners were to be had.

"How have your galactic adventures treated you?" It was an honest question. From what he had garnered, she seemed to have been making some impact, even as she suffered grievous wounds repeatedly that he could see no signs of. Then again he was no psyker or diviner.

"Terribly." She looked musing. "I'm just not strong enough to make a difference," What. "Not a meaningful one, with all the Waaghs in the galaxy, all the disasters rolling about.." Was she bitter over the inconclusive results of her fights against Ahriman? "How's Avernus and the Imperial Trust going?"

"The fight against Perturabo went far better than it had any right to do so. So many of us were in panic when we heard the news, and the Phalanx coming up on the viewscreen to-scale was the second-most demoralizing event in my life, right up till it was dismantled by Biel-Tan under Autarch Talbryn in a most climatic fashion. Since then I've been working on reforms to the Trust.. a legacy of mine I'm proud of. I'm less proud of some of my choices on Avernus. Having the numbers on how many students failing the trials due to overcrowding was.. something. They didn't speak to me about it, but I know I'm responsible, even if they don't drill it in."

"Everyone has to make sacrifices for the Incursion to come. Yours isn't too unusual." Areatha observed. Rotbart had instinctively frowned as the imagined berating from Areatha over his choices and sacrifices.. didn't come. On some level that had felt disturbing.

"I still have nightmares sometimes. Of Ithica and my choices there. I dearly hope that I won't have to make a choice like that again. I wonder sometimes if I could have ended that battle differently. A victory that didn't taste like I was drinking ash." A gnawing and traitorous thought said that an event like Ithaca would be a modest price for victory.

"Honestly? I'm no general, but from what I can tell, for what's to come, losing a planet might be a small price for victory." She spoke. What happened to her? Two centuries ago she had been horrified by his choices, and challenged him to find another way, a better way in the future.

"..It might have been a waste of time lately, but I've taken up learning. About the warp, and the sciences. They've been surprisingly helpful to my work." He said.

"That they are for sure. I wonder sometimes if I should have focused my studies more, though." Was this person even the Areatha he knew before?

"Your battles on the front lines of the War in Hevaen have changed you. Two centuries ago you'd never have said these things to me." He commented.

Areatha looked thoughtful, musing even. Then the meeting began, sparing Rotbart from the surprisingly pleasant conversation - yet one disturbing on levels he couldn't quite articulate.

@Durin
 
1): when the ship component/parts say +XX% hulk rate or whatever, how is that applied and how do they stack?
IE: if there's 3 parts that add +10% and 1 part that adds -15% to a base rate of....I guess 35% for escort (found the bit in the design tab)....does that work out to a additively calculated 40%, multiplicatively calculated as 1*(1.2)*(1.2)*(0.85) = 0.4284 ... or something else?
With HP it's always relative to the base. So a 2.4 HP base with a +20% and a -10% results in 2.4*(1+.2-.1) = 2.64. Weapons are the same.
With Hulk rate the you just add the percent to the base, so escort with 35% base with a USP reactor giving +15% would be 35% +15% = 50%.
With shields it's the trickiest because Ancile/Standar/Aegis void shields are a separate modifier that's multiplicative with other modifiers. So it's Base * Shield Type (Ancile/Standard/Aegis) *(1 +Sum of other modifiers). So for an escort base 1 with Aegis x3 and OPS2 +50% you would have 1*3*(1+.5) = 4.5


since no one wanted to do the Nynye
I'd like to if that has any meaning. If they get wiped out in the coming incursion it will be quite unfortunate. I'm kind of expecting the Avernite mercenaries action to fail because everyone wants to reserve their troops for themselves. So it's not like we'd lose much on the diplo section.

The differences between a hybrid Zephyr and Destroyer Golem are huge though, not to mention being able to specialize Zephyr as a Raider. We only ever merged Destroyer and Raider roles because the difference between them was minimal, just -2 Power for Destroyer, and there was no need for OPWs because of sucky weapons. This no longer applies.

Compared to Zephyr with DIs, Speed 7, and OPW2, Golem-D has: +0.75 Armor, +27% HP, +24% Shields, -25% E DIs, x2 AC Wings, -10% Cost/CP, -30% Crew.

This can not be given up on out of desire for minimal number of classes.
There's also +0.4 AA on the Zephyr. I suppose you're right though. The Golem's bonus trait is really powerful, and that is a pretty sizeable benefit.

I am starting to agree that +20% Weapons is worth less than the ability to harass enemy harassers probably, yes, its not like even with DIs Zephyrs role would be firepower.

Well I am not sure about universal +1 Speed, I was more thinking suddenly supercaps too fast for Scorch to harass, perhaps even only daemonic ones, as increasing speed like that seems pretty expensive.
The +1 speed vs +20% weapons is really dependent on whether we expect enemies get to speed 6 or not. I don't really think it's worth it just for cobras, though cobras could bog down our fleet for their frigates and light cruisers to catch up. But cobras will evaporate pretty fast.

If we see any more speed 6 ships though we'll be really missing that +1 speed on the Zephyr, but if we don't see any more then we'll be thankful for the +20% weapons. It's a tradeoff.

I am not a fan of Dark Matter, that No Hulk rule is pretty brutal. Its very niche, though said niche allows for the monster than is Twister so it can be an important niche, and improving it would just improve that as I don't see much use for a DMR that produces more power besides maybe a Harass Tachyon PDR. And lowering the HP penalty, making it not expensive, or getting rid of the No Hulk rule seems very unlikely to me.

Hm... here I was thinking about what ships DMR would be good for, besides Twister, and thought about carriers. They are not priority targets, stay at Extreme range, are fast so can run away (well in universe) etc. A DRM on Cloud would give OPS2 and, if that's allowed though I think not (have asked) rid it of Fragile, end result of -14% HP, +20% Shields, +25% AA for Expensive (EM) and No Hulks. Could maybe be worth it, but I don't grasp hulk value and how much Clouds die in fleet actions well enough to say.
DMR is relative to plasma reactors an immature technology. I could easily see getting improvements in it across the board. Some sort of ejectable core like the Federation has maybe to allow hulks. I suspect that antimatter for instance would be a No Hulk rule if it had less safeties, considering a hypothetical miniaturized one based on the dreadnought one could just randomly blow up at any time.

Even if it never lost the No Hulk rule though it could easily be made good enough for our harassment fleet. Extra hulks are least useful there because we won't always have the luxury of recovering ships lost in enemy territory. The Zephyr with its VAOPR only has a 30% hulk rate anyway.

In universe it doesn't make sense though, why would a more expensive reactor increase the cost of the Psy-Cannon or say Tachyon Scanners? The +10% Cost/CP is an abstraction of a flat increase in cost that happens to be that large on a normal ship, it does not make every part more expensive. Mechanically, it also should not be difficult to apply it to the base cost before adding Expensive (?) tags and such.

Oh yeah the Ultimate Reactor does not look good for G-R so that might nix this, though I did ask and increasing emissions is apparently easy enough so maybe our engin(s)eers could figure something out.
I'm perfectly willing to accept in universe weirdness to make for out of the game simplification when we're already at such a fine detail as this. Though in this case Durin has already said it won't be full +10% cost in this but only 5%. Gridarvol's are only like 10% more CP, but over 2x the cost of the Gridarvol-R variant, so it's probably +5% cost but still +10% CP.

If we could fake emissions on the G-R that would be helpful.

Well then! What can we learn from this?
CPSell price% of Cost that is CPPrice Per CP
Earthquake DreadnoughtColossal
24,730​
26,751,549​
73%​
789.6737​
Hurricane DreadnoughtColossal
22,042​
22,470,673​
76%​
774.7805​
Twister Pocket DreadnoughtGargantuan
8,870​
4,107,686​
74%​
342.6931​
Inferno Pocket DreadnoughtGargantuan
7,526​
3,764,023​
70%​
350.0952​
Boulder BattleshipGargantuan
3,091​
1,436,263​
73%​
339.2015​
Black ShipGargantuan
4,608​
1,664,889​
86%​
310.7215​
Gridarvol Grand CruiserHuge
1,176​
420,496​
50%​
178.7823​
Gridarvol-R Grand CruiserHuge
1,008​
188,050​
83%​
154.8428​
Blaze CruiserLarge
76​
11,649​
62%​
95.03132​
Scorch CruiserLarge
76​
11,649​
62%​
95.03132​
Cloud CarrierLarge
69​
10,104​
65%​
95.18261​
Fissure CruiserLarge
82​
12,407​
63%​
95.32207​
Military TransportSmall
168​
28,256​
88%​
148.0076​
Hail Light CruiserSmall
47​
4,490​
57%​
54.45319​
Zephyr RaiderSmall
7​
759​
63%​
68.31​
Golem FrigateSmall
6​
681​
62%​
70.37​

It smoothed out the price per CP somewhat, but there's still some odd spots. Interesting that Large shipyards are the only ones with a standardized price per CP really. Hail is discounted, military transports have an incredible markup compared to any other small ship.


I would happy if he told us simply that we are wrong in some way and that the reactors are worth it. All I want is to use them.
Uhm, while this is true, we are currently speculating without even having read Tranth's thoughts on the tech. I don't intent to make any decisions until after I see that myself, I have just been noting how viable the tech currently seems to be to help Durin tune it or to prod him into telling is how we are wrong.

Also Durin is a good QM and very unlikely to give us a useless naval part, so he will either tweak the USPR, surprise us with the scaling, or we misunderstand something about Ultimate Reactors value which is also entirely possible. So concluding that the tech is useless, other than seeming useless, is not wise or is at least premature I believe.
I kind of feel like this was more showing us that we're at the point of serious diminishing returns on plasma reactor research. That Durin's being nice in basically letting us know there's no use to pursuing further advancements here.

The USPR has been buffed enough to have a use in the main fleet, and it was already pretty good for the stealth fleet. So it's not a useless part anymore.

Maybe Tranth's thoughts will surprise us. But it's not like we haven't done research that's turned out to be a dud before.

I think it's also not neccessarily only about how many resources, but also the fact that Hails can be built in small shipyards, and CP of small shipyards is very cheap completely.
This low a figure actually puts it as getting small shipyard CP at about a 20% discount compared to our escorts. So it's a bit weird.
 
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I kind of feel like this was more showing us that we're at the point of serious diminishing returns on plasma reactor research. That Durin's being nice in basically letting us know there's no use to pursuing further advancements here.

The USPR has been buffed enough to have a use in the main fleet, and it was already pretty good for the stealth fleet. So it's not a useless part anymore.

Maybe Tranth's thoughts will surprise us. But it's not like we haven't done research that's turned out to be a dud before.

This low a figure actually puts it as getting small shipyard CP at about a 20% discount compared to our escorts. So it's a bit weird.
(to be clear, I agree for the most part, I'm just expanding on what I'm getting from your post):
honestly, I think its less diminishing returns on the reactor-tech line after hitting the end/ultimate "plasma reactor" tech-line, and more diminishing returns for stretching past our sub-par eco. I suspect the techs are *actually* granting exponential gains, like the bonus's that deamon-ships get.

So never mind the missing post-ultimate tiered techs. Cas for every eco-tech we get, we unlock like 2-3 weapon-techs it seems like (or at least the research to them). We are like early industiralists messing with post-information age warfare....
(mechanically speaking, I'm thinking the "expensive" and "cheap" tags could have been getting upgraded more overtime, instead of unlocking new weapons if we had built more of the "specialized shipyard" and "singula smithies".....
So all the tag's sprinkled in the naval-model documents is probably reflecting not just expensive production lines, but immature manufacturing tech.)


To further extend: I'm going to assert the possibility that the ultimate reactors have some kind of synergy at the Ultimate-tier with ultimate shield/armor/engine/etc techs.
The result produces as much as the over-charged while keeping the health-bonus of the stable, as long as when properly combined with the right ultimate--tier versions of the right shield and/or armor combos. Thus giving us ultra-value ships that combine the best bits of our enemy's/allies/etc in one fleet that our admirals can flex into being the right ships at the right places and at the right times.
(Tbh, we are probably *already* using various sub-ultimate "tech-combo's" without even knowing. Our navy/army/everything is already a bit of a tech-chimera, this path would be us embracing that for our navy.)

TLDR: Basically, I'm suggesting the ultimate plasma reactor tech-path as a possible part of a "humans are the jack-of-all-trades" tech-"family". Thus granting us *some* of the speed/toughness/numbers/flexibility/etc of the eldar/necrons/orks/nids(respectively). Except instead of masters of nothing, we have weird, crit-rolled, super-techs that we found, bought, pinched, or just straight up stole, from various actual reality-manipulators including durin himself arguably....

there's probably PLENTY we are missing that would make the Ultimate-plasma reactor tech more viable, its just not actually anything to do with the tech itself.....
(we might find that AM-or-DM-reactors replace overcharged at the ultimate tier and who-knows what-else..... but now I have hit the second level of speculation via additional variables).
 
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so, super-long story-on-discord short:
1): lag's, I, others, realized that tzeetch has a solid chance at using the incursion as a chance to speed-run ascension for ahriman since most deamons for everyone will be gone and tzeetch can now just make sure that ahriman can find his targets who won't have daemon-support (and of course win them).
2): we realized that we could try to frame tzeetch for a plot of...well...something........alot of different ideas on what..
3): but I wanna expand and discuss more ideas on getting the the CG's more prepped towards either:

a): not fully commiting on the invasion and just letting us take it on relatively easy mode for 99% of the time just os they have free forces. if we deal with tzeetch doing this, we would like to at least be closer to full-strength+slann​
b): ganging up on tzeetch more completely and forcing him to commit and/or lose ahriman/other things so that he's at least not ahead. at the moment he's ahead simply cas the other chaos god's arn't fully commiting against him.​
c): at the least forced to not let ahriman make progress, cas he's a SERIOUS upset for EVERYONE's plans, kinda by his nature if he asscendings to scary-functional-insanity....like, it won't be lose-condition, but if it happens with ahriman during/soon-after the incursion and everyone's distracted? thats pretty dang close to a T5 ork waagh being able to force everyone to team up kind of thing.​
4): possable ideas/examples:
a): trick tzeetch into thinking he wiped his own memorys about a plan, so that he can't even say truthfully what is or is not his plan (and so won't submit to using the oath stone)​
b): he tricked the eldar into doing the work of framing him for doing a thing.........that ideas still potentially on the table btw, especially in combo with (a) about pre-praring for the invasion but not telling anyone so that he could prepare some big thing to steal/do *something*.​
c): a macguffin that the eldar can use to instagate in-fighting via CG's thinking that tzeetch might use it. such as a fake of tzeetchs OG super-magic wand that had to break in order to not be ganged up on.​
....seriously, theres ALOT more and I can't even begin to explain all of the ideas we went through....​
 
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(mechanically speaking, I'm thinking the "expensive" and "cheap" tags could have been getting upgraded more overtime, instead of unlocking new weapons if we had built more of the "specialized shipyard" and "singula smithies".....
So all the tag's sprinkled in the naval-model documents is probably reflecting not just expensive production lines, but
immature manufacturing tech.)
This makes me wonder...

@Durin 1. Can we build singula smithies or the lesser versions for ship reactors?
2. Are there any other ship components we could use them for?

1): lag's, I, others, realized that tzeetch has a solid chance at using the incursion as a chance to speed-run ascension for ahriman since most deamons for everyone will be gone and tzeetch can now just make sure that ahriman can find his targets who won't have daemon-support (and of course win them).
That's a big problem. We should probably divert some of our divination focus from Destroyer to Ahriman. The Destroyer is a very slow paced threat, Ahriman is a lot shorter timescale. That he's already gotten 6 steps is rather scary.
 
Uhm? Where did 2700 words come from, I did two of these like two days ago.

1. With +Hulks now getting a big role with Ultimate Reactors, could you give us some examples of what +x% Hulks is worth? Because I am now completely lost when it comes to the value of Hulk chance and thus can't design with it in mind.
1. I would say that +5% hulks is worth around -2% price
though it various with ship and how ften you expect to repair it

2. Could the First Worldship have Teleporter Designs which are superior to our Teleporters? Transporters are pretty common Star Trek tech.
2. they are one of those techs that were rended useless by the changing Warp
their teleports make yours seem useless.
in the Sea of Souls
in the Warp they are a fancy way to cast yourself into Hell

1. Could the +Stealthy of USPR be countered somehow, intentionally increasing emissions? Since we don't want our Brutes to have lower targeting size after all.
1. very easily
just radiate a bt mre
and anyway, unless you have stealth engines all stealth is useless
'it seems there is a giant plasma trail not conencted to anything'
"I wonder what that is?'

Well I thought that Cloak or Reflux could dump the plasma into warp, but fair enough. Maybe note this in Stealth and Gravity Engines description?

1. Does the FWS disintegrator batteries help with our existing disintegrator weapons (currently just the rifle and pistol)? In as much as having a workable understanding to modify them and produce new types? I steered away from Tier 4+ stuff (aside from Grav-weapons and letting Techmarines make use of existing photon thruster weapons) in my Astartes omake due to them being poorly understood
1. not immediatly but ni time yes
Huh, its the same tech? Interesting.

2. Weird. Ah well. In that case to clarify, the thing before the primal that it cannot describe is that just an additional level between the sea and the normal warp?
2. yeah
if the Primal is the Warp of primative life, it is the empty Warp
the Warp before life existed

3. Does the Primal know why the sea wants to destroy everything?
3. no

1. Could the primal give any ideas on where its located (aside from past it). Or by its very nature can life just not really touch it? Just curious cause it sounds interesting if nothing else.
1. the Primal at least can't touch it
the best it can say is that it is strong outside the galaxy
where life has not yet reached
Oh? Interesting. Primordial Sea is weakened by life? I am suddenly very interested in its interaction with Ka.

1. As I recall a lot of Avernus wildlife uses primal stuff as part of their powers, hence why they don't miscast, and boosting their resistance to chaos. How do we reverse engineer them if that is the case or am I just being an idiot?
1. they tend to use primal methords for non-primal powers

2: Given we re equipped the Militia with pulse, and we as such have umpteen billion Impalers about, how would selling a lump sum of Impalers on the criminally cheap to the rats go? Given we ain't gonna be using them.
2. well

3. What is the projected growth of Trusts UDA income? Trying to figure out if we can afford to plate Golems in UDA. Or you could say if we can I suppose if you happen to know already and spare me the math.
3. +200 over the next 50 years, +400 over the following 50, +800 over the 50 after that
@inverted_helix do you feel like mathing out if we can armor Golems in UDA?

4. Would us not finishing examining the new Conclave techs this turn seem notably suspicious?
4. as long as you put some years in no

1: now that we know (or at least suspect) the connection between stars and lifeforce, is it IC reasonable to hypothesis that nurgle's attempt to Lay-Claim to the stars themselves, as part of his part in the grand ritual, was a "Even Worse Then We Thought" moment?
IE: it woulden't have just made all life that much more vulnable (since most life is exposed to starlight)...but Intrinsically would tie nurgle into being able to corrupt all life since he'd be the corruption of life itself through our original source of it?
1. or have failed

1: not exactly relevant till post-incursion: but OOC how open are you to us trying to do armor-research? between 3rd enclave/trolls/etc, we have recently got a bunch of stuff that makes it fairly IC reasonable for a feasablity on a pretty fundlemental limitation to our ships....but OOC might not be worth the re-balancing effort and better to fold that kind of thing into other stuff.
examples for clarification (canon'd details/possablities to be given after feasablity)
a): adding 0.1 to armor effect to some/all of our armor-types and/or hull-multipliers
b): adding 1-3 to some/all of ship base-armor.
c): new armor catagory (or ship modifier?) with bonus armor/speed but adds expensive (UDA works off short-supply and doesn't exist for harassers)
1. entirly possible
more liekly to be adding 0.1-0.5 to ypes of armour or giving you newtypes
We could really use better Light Armor, and a Medium one thats worth using would be nice too. Heavy+ is covered beautifully with UDA already of course, at least outside of Escorts, LCs, and Cruisers.

2. I remember Exodites recently joining the Empire of Ashes, mostly because of Isha's release. Any chance they will have an easy time picking up the Shaman tradition?
2. they will

3. What about spreading it?
3. not really with spreading it

4. Would Vlad care to share what differences there are in the training that our Heljaegers or Helguard receive in comparison to the training the Elite Explorer Corps of the DAoT received?
4. far more combat focused, less suvival focused
an elite explorars main job was to live, a Helguards main job is to kill

5. Random question but does Farsight and his sword dorf have Ka vision like psykers have witch sight? If so what does Aria look like to them?
5. a shrouded light

6. What do they think about Aria in general beyond the presumed amazement she's even possible?
6. that if she manages to master her Ka to the level that she has her psychic powers and meld them she will be an absolute monster
one that might even have a chance of killing C'Tan
...ok, the Ka research chain just jumped in importance for me for this possibility alone.

7. was the SK contesting the AO for the archtypes even when he was visting other galaxies?
7. ye
Well that's interesting. Might Archetypes be a Primordial Sea thing? Dunno how that could be, but I don't think it likely that our galaxies warp can keep track of an anti-warp Necron in another galaxy.

8. could somone who treates with non chaos warp entites and gods have a claim on the sorcer archtype if ahriman spends some time dead?
8. if theya re head and shoulders above any other sorcerors yes

9. Could Kurnous create a one-time use snare that could immobilize the Destroyer? If the final result was empowered by the Primal maybe?
9. for a instant yes

11. You accidently gave us 130 action years in the update rather than the usual 120 action years. Fifty-five action-years locked + seventy-five action-years free = 130 action years.
11. you ahve been on 130 since turn 12

1): I think I already know the answer, but for the sake of it: is there anything we can do to un-waste 10 years of turns 12, 13, 14 and 15?
(Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities)
kinda curious if we are going to get a IC lamp-shading for a accounting error that resulted in us losing 4/13th's of a decade...cas thats almost approaching RL-levels of incompetence (which is ironic, since thats explictly where it came from), even if not old imperium levels....
oof, f, oops, dang-it
1. I will give you half of the wasted years as a bonus
So 20 years

alright, cool; less then we hoped, but more then we expected

1. Is a blessing from a god onto a willing mortal or a curse placed onto an unwilling mortal with the same strength of effect more expensive? (assume the mortal doesn't have much in the way of Warp resistance)
1. In general a bit harder unless the god has a good tie

2: clearification, 20 years for this turn right? your not planning on having the 20 years get spread out or moved or whatever?
2b: are you planning on doing a IC head-nod/lampshade/etc of the whole thing? personally I'm hopeful for that to help me laugh at it....
2. Yeah this turn
2b. If I come up with a good one

3. Just a follow up question to compare this to but what do the following look like to Ka Vision (I feel like we need a better name for this but can't think of one)? Sorry for asking for an entire list of things but I'm really curious about the results and I feel this is the best way to separate answers
a. Normal humans
b. Psyker
c. Tau/blanks
d. Necrons
e. C'tan
f. Stars
3. candle
B. Shadow
C. Flame
D. Nothing, lifeless
E. Star
F. Star

G.Eldars ?
H. Krork ?
I. Black Crystal Gear and Sword?
G like other psyker
H. Ditto
I. Black Hole

1): I had a idea that the whole missing-year's thing was a result of us not properly recongizeing that the Hand's have become net-positive in time/effort spent training them.
but that led me to a mechanic-idea: thoughts on introducing a mechanic where the extra actions are NOT picked by us and we have to pick how much resources to let them learn govenership with? they learn more skills, but we risk them wasting the resources due to ineptitude
1. interesting idea

1. Can Fragile be removed in a refit? I know that Sturdy cant be added so suspect it can not but I no longer remember the refit rules clearly, and it being permanent would be a pretty heavy burden on those classes, making them much more rapidly obsolete than others as any time we get or free up +1 Power that's what we would want to use it on generally.
1. It can
Yay!

2. Are unconscious psykers (Omicron to Kappa) really hard to see in Ka vision the same way minor blanks are for a psyker's witchsight?
2. Yes
Made me think of Ka-sight witch finders.

3. As Psychic Cannon was called psy-tech, do DAoT Warp Theorems not apply to it?
3. They do

4. What is the difference between warp- and psy-tech? I had assumed that the former is tech that interacts with the warp and does not require psykers, but that would apply to the Psychic Cannon.
4. None
Well that's confusing. I'm gonna keep thinking of warptech as technology that interacts with the warp and psytech as psyker technology.

1. When is the vote closed?
1. a coulpe of days

2. Hey have the Eldar taken into consideration that Ahriman might use the sudden lack of daemon body guards around his targets during the incursion to speed run his archetype steps? Tzeentch almost certainly won't remove the ones around Ahriman who'll just write off him keeping his as a result of his superior skill so this seems worryingly likely.
2. its a worry

3. Does the Ka primer help with Aria learning to use her life-force, or does that come with the next step? If it's this step, what bonus does it give to the roll?
3. next step

4. how viable would it be for the laufhging god to convince nurgle that Tzeentch is planning to sacrifice isha during the Grand incursion?
4. not very

5. how likily would it be for 4 of the chaos gods to try and force concesions from Tzeentch for them to all sighn off on belkies orders to kill the slan, since Tzeentch
is winning right now?
5. possible

6. Assuming you were a chaos god or a chaos person, how plausible would 'Ascend Slann resurrection into a Tzeentch' sound (possibly fit sacrificing Isha into this somehow)? I feel it's not what is possible but what he feels is likely is what will determine Nurgle's responce.
6. moderatly but probebly not the main goal

7. a slight riff on a theme, how viable a plan would it be to frame Tzeentch for some planed betrayal during the Grand Incusion
7. not very

8. To confirm, when we say Sol (the star) is dead, does that mean it doesn't have ka?
8. yes

9. how hard would it be to convince tzeetch that it's planning treacher against the others during the Grand incusion, but has wiped its own memories as part of the ploy?
9. not at all

10. Is Alpharius becoming Tzeentch impossible? Like, is it specifically Ahriman that is the only realistic mortal contender for Tzeentch atm?
10. yes

1. how effective do the eldar think that tricking Tzeentch into thinking he's planning a betreayl would be at disrupting the chaos gods cordination for the Grand incursion?
1. not very

2: how easy would it be for the eldar to arrange the creation of a macguffin that looks normal or otherwise simple, but just might have something hidden?
idea being the potential for a actually-useless macguffin for the use of instagating the counter-betrayal against tzeetch by planting it as being critical to tzeetch's long-term plans/future grand rituals/something.....
(other gods decide they have to take it away/destory it, tzeetch assumes he needs it but wiped his memorys)
2. very hard

1): same as 2 above, but instead of invisable use, it looks like it can't be used without other parts? like the macguffin is the shaft of tzeetch's og super-wand or whatever so its known-to-be useless right now but still utterly critical to tzeetch
1. not quite as hard but still very hard

2. as we're snowballing ideas to manipulate the chaos gods, is there any specic types of disruptions, ie them making one of them go first, that they eldar would like to say?
2. no

3): how feasable to set up evidence that tzeetch has a way to fake how much forces he has commited or hidden? for the purpose of the CG's not trusting how much he has left not commited to the invasion
3. not at all

4. Would Rotbart/Trust Admirals prefer a Speed 8 Zephyr-A Raider or a Speed 7 one with OPW 2 (so +20% Weapons)?
4. against current foes speed 7
that might change

1. Out of curiosity, can a ship with UD Body not have UD Armor? Since, well, all of it is that armor.
1. no

2. Had an idea for a large/spinal Disintegrator weapon that instead of making holes into ships makes cuts. This is usually a terrible idea as it exposes the weapon to a lot more armor, but DIs care little and cutting allows a weapon that makes a say centimeter wide hole to cause a lot of damage.
2. might be possible

3 how much better do the chances for the previous bits about macguffins raise if they only need to be good enough to look like what their supposed to be while inside Itza and/or apart/near Isha's ritual?
3. better but still not great
 
This makes me wonder...

@Durin 1. Can we build singula smithies or the lesser versions for ship reactors?
2. Are there any other ship components we could use them for?


That's a big problem. We should probably divert some of our divination focus from Destroyer to Ahriman. The Destroyer is a very slow paced threat, Ahriman is a lot shorter timescale. That he's already gotten 6 steps is rather scary.
1. no, they have a maximum size which reactors exceed
2. ditto
 
1. Could the primal give any ideas on where its located (aside from past it). Or by its very nature can life just not really touch it? Just curious cause it sounds interesting if nothing else.
1. the Primal at least can't touch it
the best it can say is that it is strong outside the galaxy
where life has not yet reached
Oh? Interesting. Primordial Sea is weakened by life? I am suddenly very interested in its interaction with Ka.
It sounds to me more like there's less layers between the Primordial Sea and the surface outside the galaxy because there is no primal warp and no manufactured warp.

3. What is the projected growth of Trusts UDA income? Trying to figure out if we can afford to plate Golems in UDA. Or you could say if we can I suppose if you happen to know already and spare me the math.
3. +200 over the next 50 years, +400 over the following 50, +800 over the 50 after that
@inverted_helix do you feel like mathing out if we can armor Golems in UDA?
It depends on how fast we expect our shipyards to grow. If I had projections for shipyards as well I'd take a crack at it.

I'm actually a bit surprised that it is apparently growing 100/200/400/800 when we started with 500.

1: not exactly relevant till post-incursion: but OOC how open are you to us trying to do armor-research? between 3rd enclave/trolls/etc, we have recently got a bunch of stuff that makes it fairly IC reasonable for a feasablity on a pretty fundlemental limitation to our ships....but OOC might not be worth the re-balancing effort and better to fold that kind of thing into other stuff.
examples for clarification (canon'd details/possablities to be given after feasablity)
a): adding 0.1 to armor effect to some/all of our armor-types and/or hull-multipliers
b): adding 1-3 to some/all of ship base-armor.
c): new armor catagory (or ship modifier?) with bonus armor/speed but adds expensive (UDA works off short-supply and doesn't exist for harassers)
1. entirly possible
more liekly to be adding 0.1-0.5 to ypes of armour or giving you newtypes
We could really use better Light Armor, and a Medium one thats worth using would be nice too. Heavy+ is covered beautifully with UDA already of course, at least outside of Escorts, LCs, and Cruisers.
This is quite surprising to me because:
3. Is the materials we use for Voidships of higher or lower grade compared to Troll Steel?
3. a bit lower
but using Troll steel to replace them ius not viable
a single escort would need more Troll steel then the Avernite Helltroopers
Troll steel was the cheapest of the new materials we got.

It would be really nice to have better armor. Our armor on our top end ships has exploded because of UDA, but our lower end ships have almost the same armor as Imperial ships.

6. What do they think about Aria in general beyond the presumed amazement she's even possible?
6. that if she manages to master her Ka to the level that she has her psychic powers and meld them she will be an absolute monster
one that might even have a chance of killing C'Tan
...ok, the Ka research chain just jumped in importance for me for this possibility alone.
...Hell I've been advocating for the blank research line since it was unlocked, and even I didn't think it had that insane a top end potential for Aria. Aria could displace Jacob and Jane as our best combat heroes, and by miles at that.

7. was the SK contesting the AO for the archtypes even when he was visting other galaxies?
7. ye
Well that's interesting. Might Archetypes be a Primordial Sea thing? Dunno how that could be, but I don't think it likely that our galaxies warp can keep track of an anti-warp Necron in another galaxy.
Honestly I don't really get how an anti-warp Necron holds down archetypes in general.

2. Had an idea for a large/spinal Disintegrator weapon that instead of making holes into ships makes cuts. This is usually a terrible idea as it exposes the weapon to a lot more armor, but DIs care little and cutting allows a weapon that makes a say centimeter wide hole to cause a lot of damage.
2. might be possible
I didn't really suggest developing a spinal because projecting based on the scaling in comparison to other weapons led to it doing way too little damage to compete with superlance or spinal accelerator, with pen probably around the level of the spinal accelerator.

The problem with that method would be that armor on 40k ships is thick, and the disintegrator is disintegrating a certain amount of matter. If it sweeps along the target it's just vaporizing more armor without penetrating into the juicy insides.

If disintegrators are supposed to be like phasers and a precision weapon, I'd fluff it as a spinal mount being able to target key systems and penetrate armor to knock them out early, thus letting it do disproportionate damage. (It would need to have like 4x the damage scaling of the NC compared to dread batteries or the SL compared to dread lances to compete.)
 
That's a big problem. We should probably divert some of our divination focus from Destroyer to Ahriman. The Destroyer is a very slow paced threat, Ahriman is a lot shorter timescale. That he's already gotten 6 steps is rather scary.
mmm...

The good news is that his targets are also mostly people who he can't easily target even without daemons just off the cuff.

And if Tzeentch were to do that, then it would be luck bombing itself at a time when that's not especially advantageous.
 
This is quite surprising to me because:

Troll steel was the cheapest of the new materials we got.

It would be really nice to have better armor. Our armor on our top end ships has exploded because of UDA, but our lower end ships have almost the same armor as Imperial ships.
I think the distinction to be made here is that this would be the first armor research we have done....*ever* (to my knowledge, getting UDA is only a sorta-exception and stealth armor techniqually counts but ....no)...its only just recently that we actually got serious improvemetns in our material science...still relevant tho that this can probably fold in over a millenia of less sigificant improvments to general manufactoring.

furthermore, part of what goes into armoring is mass production of absurd blocks of metal right? well, part of what we got from the troll's wasn't just troll-steel as a type unto itself but just "rounding off the edges" of our materal science, no psi-tech/whatever required.

combo all that with a simply stronger+bigger+denser eco and I don't think its too surprising that we have at least unlocked a decent feasablity shot for just simply using higher quality alloys/etc as standard, at least after getting tranth on the job. it only takes like a 5% tougher/lighter material for that to add up to alot more then just 5% more protection as things tend to work out (RL hit extreme dimishing returns here a long time ago for the most part, alumnum, carbon fiber, titanium/tungston alloying, 3d printing, oxigenless welding, concrete mixes and addatives, are the primary exceptions in my mind....but every time they turn into major upgrades, even if some in nich-fields)

if all that's still not enough? at bare mininmum, I could totally see us just not HAVING designs for UD armor for light-ships simply cause the imperium never cared to value low-armor high-speed ships....but that's changed and it would require some non-insigificant design work to sort out how to do generic design patterns for various hull-types/shapes/parts/etc for a different use-case for UDM.

I agree with the comment in the post above that getting UD-tier for harassers would be amazing; might be cheaper per-ship even if probably more expensive per unit of protection....or armor with expensive tag.

altnernatively, we can unlock a power-armor catagory? 1-2 power for built-in ion-fields or whatever (plus expensive I bet), but half the speed debuff (so primarily for high-value heavy-end while under UDA-shortages). lots of ideas in this direction and actually a spot that RL militarys/nations/anyone would LOVE to get their hands on as material science is pretty much *the* bottleneck for all large-scale anythings and probably always will be.

regardless, I'm very happy to hear armor (might) be getting a upgrade, coudl also look/ask into/about upgrade hull statistics too now that I think about it.
 
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DMR is relative to plasma reactors an immature technology. I could easily see getting improvements in it across the board. Some sort of ejectable core like the Federation has maybe to allow hulks. I suspect that antimatter for instance would be a No Hulk rule if it had less safeties, considering a hypothetical miniaturized one based on the dreadnought one could just randomly blow up at any time.

Even if it never lost the No Hulk rule though it could easily be made good enough for our harassment fleet. Extra hulks are least useful there because we won't always have the luxury of recovering ships lost in enemy territory. The Zephyr with its VAOPR only has a 30% hulk rate anyway.
Immature yes, but it has some fundamental problems that refinement seems unlikely to solve such as the No Hulk rule and the expense, as Dark Matter cost a lot more than hydrogen for plasma reactors to fuse. This combines in a rather niche reactor no matter the maturity I think.

Ejecting the core is not I think viable, because such a system would mean having a tunnel from the outside of the ship straight to the reactor. Sure there would be armored shutters and such, but thats still a considerable weakness. Star Trek ships solve this with structural integrity fields allowing them to put a lot of armor into a single armor plate and by relying mostly on shields rather than armor. Their shape and size also makes the warp core pretty close to the surface, here it would be buried under quite possibly kilometers of hull. Maybe some kind of a specialized emergency teleporter could work, but mass limit... hm.

Actually, First Worldship has teleporters that are now obsolete because they are a fancy way to dump stuff into hell, but... in this case that's what we would want isn't it? Our teleporters can not port something so large, but these perhaps could? That could work. Have asked.

For Harassers the problem with DMR is the Expensive tag, the limited increase in firepower it would provide, and endurance on offensive ops. You can skim gas giants for fuel for plasma reactors, DM needs a supply line. Could be viable though, yes.

DMR Zephyr... interesting, gimme a min... just OPW 2 and 1 useless Power, not worth it. Maybe if DRM was +8 Power, that would allow for Speed 8 OPS2 and OPW2 which might be worth the increased cost, dunno how expensive DMR is. I know that CPs are most important, but least so for Escorts and the value of CPs will halve within a century apparently.


CPSell price% of Cost that is CPPrice Per CP
Earthquake DreadnoughtColossal
24,730​
26,751,549​
73%​
789.6737​
Hurricane DreadnoughtColossal
22,042​
22,470,673​
76%​
774.7805​
Twister Pocket DreadnoughtGargantuan
8,870​
4,107,686​
74%​
342.6931​
Inferno Pocket DreadnoughtGargantuan
7,526​
3,764,023​
70%​
350.0952​
Boulder BattleshipGargantuan
3,091​
1,436,263​
73%​
339.2015​
Black ShipGargantuan
4,608​
1,664,889​
86%​
310.7215​
Gridarvol Grand CruiserHuge
1,176​
420,496​
50%​
178.7823​
Gridarvol-R Grand CruiserHuge
1,008​
188,050​
83%​
154.8428​
Blaze CruiserLarge
76​
11,649​
62%​
95.03132​
Scorch CruiserLarge
76​
11,649​
62%​
95.03132​
Cloud CarrierLarge
69​
10,104​
65%​
95.18261​
Fissure CruiserLarge
82​
12,407​
63%​
95.32207​
Military TransportSmall
168​
28,256​
88%​
148.0076​
Hail Light CruiserSmall
47​
4,490​
57%​
54.45319​
Zephyr RaiderSmall
7​
759​
63%​
68.31​
Golem FrigateSmall
6​
681​
62%​
70.37​

It smoothed out the price per CP somewhat, but there's still some odd spots. Interesting that Large shipyards are the only ones with a standardized price per CP really. Hail is discounted, military transports have an incredible markup compared to any other small ship.
Why is Hail discounted here? I thought that the small % of its value being made of CP was because it was resource expensive, not easy to construct. Am confused, but certainly pleased!

Hm, it occurs to me that the halving of CPs value would discount Escorts by -30%, but larger ships more such as Gridarvol-R by -42%, encouraging a more top heavy fleet.

Hm, checking the value of different sizes of CP with the cost progression I used with Small CPs...
using 70 as Price Per Small CP, I get that Large should be 87.5 so 95 is +8.5% more
Huge compared to 95 Large should be 142.5 so 155 is +8.7% more
Gargantuan should be 271.25 so 340 is +25.3% more
Colossal should be 680 so 780 is +14.7% more

Interesting, Gargantuan seem to have an abnormally high markup.

Troll steel was the cheapest of the new materials we got.

It would be really nice to have better armor. Our armor on our top end ships has exploded because of UDA, but our lower end ships have almost the same armor as Imperial ships.
Hm, could we commission the Trolls to design us new armor materials for voidships? This is something that they have not explored much surely, lacking any, and they are the greatest masters of material science known to us.

I didn't really suggest developing a spinal because projecting based on the scaling in comparison to other weapons led to it doing way too little damage to compete with superlance or spinal accelerator, with pen probably around the level of the spinal accelerator.

The problem with that method would be that armor on 40k ships is thick, and the disintegrator is disintegrating a certain amount of matter. If it sweeps along the target it's just vaporizing more armor without penetrating into the juicy insides.

If disintegrators are supposed to be like phasers and a precision weapon, I'd fluff it as a spinal mount being able to target key systems and penetrate armor to knock them out early, thus letting it do disproportionate damage. (It would need to have like 4x the damage scaling of the NC compared to dread batteries or the SL compared to dread lances to compete.)
The idea is powerful enough beam moved slowly enough to cause damage to hull of course, that sounds quite doable for the Disintegrator technology to me especially against thinner armors of screen ships. Hell, multiple piercing DI beams used at the same time could result in a cut rather holes all over, multiplying the damage I imagine.

Why would a spinal mount be able to do that and say a BB DI not? It should be more accurate even with a turret mount.

Thinking about it, the best niche for this weapon would probably be Escort anti-screen spinal. That would fix our lack of a good escort anti-screen weapon, give them a proper spinal weapon, and make use of the SWM both of our escorts have. Also, the only other niche I can think of would be a Pen 9 CR+ spinal which would clash with Ragnarok.

I am thinking basically a CR DI optimized for beams rather than blasts that trades a lot of Pen for Damage, ending up with very low Pen perhaps that of Escort or Cruiser Batteries, and due to only being really viable against thin armors not scalable. A possible problem could be though that an Escort Spinal should be like a Lance for a Light Cruiser or greater, hard to think of a way to limit to to escorts.
 
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Hm, could we commission the Trolls to design us new armor materials for voidships? This is something that they have not explored much surely, lacking any, and they are the greatest masters of material science known to us.
ooh, can't they littearlly transmute entire moutains when they really want to?

the basic armor we use seems to be,basically, a especially strong metal for the most part. they probably can straight-transmute hull-sections into shape from just astroids with enough master-grade transmuters.....(already mine'd or useless astroids would be mostly silicon, oxygen, and various trace amounts of metals in the form of rock...or ice I suppose)

man, avernus needs to get unlocked.

but yeah, commisioning them to give us a ship-building cost-reduction? not sure how well it would help, we sold our shipyards to the trust right?
wait....we diden't sell the shipyards, we just agreed to always sell the slip-years (to my chagrin)....

are they still in orbit around avernus/moons? how would the discounting of ship-construction we arn't paying for work?are we paying for the materials anyway?

also, haven't we kinda run out of things to sell them? they can produce more/faster/better and we don't ahve any tech to sell...except the enclave but thats finite and we should probably save that credit for the good-rats and other important things cas the trolls immediately turn around to sell the stuff (which is fine, but still important to consider).
 
ooh, can't they littearlly transmute entire moutains when they really want to?

the basic armor we use seems to be,basically, a especially strong metal for the most part. they probably can straight-transmute hull-sections into shape from just astroids with enough master-grade transmuters.....(already mine'd or useless astroids would be mostly silicon, oxygen, and various trace amounts of metals in the form of rock...or ice I suppose)

man, avernus needs to get unlocked.

but yeah, commisioning them to give us a ship-building cost-reduction? not sure how well it would help, we sold our shipyards to the trust right?
wait....we diden't sell the shipyards, we just agreed to always sell the slip-years (to my chagrin)....

are they still in orbit around avernus/moons? how would the discounting of ship-construction we arn't paying for work?are we paying for the materials anyway?

also, haven't we kinda run out of things to sell them? they can produce more/faster/better and we don't ahve any tech to sell...except the enclave but thats finite and we should probably save that credit for the good-rats and other important things cas the trolls immediately turn around to sell the stuff (which is fine, but still important to consider).
Remnant transmutation is only useful to us for creating materials that are far more difficult to make with pure tech, creating stuff that we cant otherwise make if there is a such a thing, and for making psykers into fast and mobile if small scale factories. For everything else we have forges.

So no, no Troll help with shipyards even if they were willing to leave Avernus. They would be far more helpful producing EM and RM instead of megatons of voidship materials, which are of a lower quality per kilogram than what we armor APA with for example. What our Militia will be armored with will be only a little worse than voidship grade adamantium.

Our shipyards are orbiting the Forge Hives on the moons, and if something discounted their production our profit margin would just increase if we sell the CPs.

We should be able to sell them new Conclave techs, and now that we have an understanding of what materials Trolls use and which they use Transmuters to make we should I think be able to trade Trolls some advanced material production from our factories that they would use Transmuters for, because we have entire massive Forge Hives safely away from disrupting wildlife available for that and compared to the Remnant far higher manpower so it should be much cheaper for us to produce. Other than that I dunno what we have they would want from us, maybe food.
 
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So after the thinking I did on reactors I thought, what about other ship parts?


Armor

Armor Multipliers (ArM) is a number every hull size has that is multiplied the armor plating and added to the hulls base Armor.
HullArmour Multiplier
Escort1.5
Small Cruiser2
Cruiser2.5
Large Cruiser3
Pocket Battleship3.5
Battleship4
Pocket Dreadnought4.5
Dreadnought5
Superdreadnought6


What we have:

Light Armor (+1 Speed, +0x Armor Multiplier)
Our most common armor, because +1 Speed means +2 Power and the armor difference between it and Medium Armor below not that great. Vital for Harassers.

Medium Armor (-0 Speed, 0.2x ArM)
Intended for Rangers, out math insisted that Light Armor is better. +2 Power is hard to beat.

Heavy Armor (-1 Speed, 0.5x ArM)
For smaller Brutes. Notably obsoleted by UDA so long as we have enough of it as it also has -1 Speed, so currently not for our Brute Escort and Cruiser.

Very Heavy Armor (-1.5 Speed, 1x ArM, HC+)
Only for Heavy Cruisers and larger, it would have made for a very large jump in durability between Brute CRs and HCs, except for UDA being affordable on PBBs making Brute HCs and this armor obsolete.

Super Heavy Armor (-2 Speed, 1.5x ArM, PDR+)
The hypercap Brute armor. Completely obsoleted by UDA and good riddance, that -2 Speed... shudder.

Ultra Dense Armor Plating (-1 Speed, 2x ArM)
Third better armor than Super Heavy, - Speed of merely Heavy, this armor is cheating and I love it. Uniquely costs the UDA special resource, according to this table:

SizeBase
Escort0.3
Small Cruiser2
Cruiser7
Large Cruiser15
Pocket Battleship25
Battleship50
Pocket Dreadnought200
Dreadnought750
Superdreadnought3000
Multiply by 3 for Armor, 1 for Lattice, 7 for Body.

Notably, the larger the hull the better the base UDA cost except that it peaks at Cruiser with LCs and Escorts having a better base cost, Escorts more than LCs. We can easily afford UDA use for PBBs and heavier, and have recently been considering use for HCs and Escorts.


What we want:

Better Light Armor, because Harassers can't afford anything heavier. Well other than -0.5 Speed sometimes.

Viable Medium Armor, good enough for our Rangers to effectively trade -2 Power for it and come out ahead durability wise. Dunno what multiplier that means.
FakeEdit: I have realized that our only applicable Ranger would be Blaze/Scorch and I suppose the Patrol LC, because G-R uses UDA and a Destroyer (Ranger Escort) can have it too so not a priority at all.


New ideas:

-0.5 Edit: +0.5 Speed armor. That would be viable and in fact a pretty good niche, not all Harassers could afford it.

Perhaps a +1.5/+2 Speed armor with a negative ArM multiplier could work? +1.5 Speed would mean +1 maximum attainable Speed (without horrendously costly Overcharge Engines 2 with its -4 Power) at the cost of -1 Power with the Slightly Overcharge Engines modifier.

Energized Armor. Ion Integrity Fields? -Power, +Speed, decent +Armor. Possible weakness to ambushes.

Some sort of a +AA armor perhaps.


Void Shields

We currently have a choice between 1x, 2x, and 3x base Shields with 2x costing 0 Power and going higher or lower means +/- 2 Power. We have Ultimate Shields as a possibility, but it is difficult to say what those would look like as (4x Shield -4 Power) seems underwhelming, amounting to +11% Shields compared to using that Power on OPS 2.

There are no reasonable variables beyond xShields and +/- Power that I can think of here.


Engines

What we have:

Heavy Engines (-1 Speed, +2 Power)
For small Brutes, so Golem and Fissure.

Advanced Engines (-0 Speed, +0 Power)
The default. Only seen on Zephyr (because Fast Engines would mean Speed 8) and Cloud (Fast would mean Speed 7).

Fast Engines (+1 Speed, -2 Power)
Vital for Harassers, used in all but four of our new ships. Even on Brutes to compensate for their armor and UD Body.

Stealth Engines (-1 Speed, -0 Power, Allows Stealth)
Stealth ships bread and butter. That -1 Speed caps them at their hulls base Speed with Overcharge Engines, speed is hard for larger stealth ships.

Gravity Engines (Base Speed 2, can't increase speed beyond 2, halve effect of speed reducers, -2 Power, Allows Stealth, +Stealth, Omnidirectional)
Needless to say this is a weird one. Lots of potential in those special rules, especially Omnidirectional would combine excellently with our spinal weapons, but these are dedicated stealth engines unfortunately and wholly nonviable for anything else.


What we want:

+1.5-2 Speed Engines for -3-4 Power. These would allow for previously impossible things such as a UD Armored Raider, use of UD Body in more classes, and Speed 8 Harassers that are not escorts if we scrounge up the Power for it. It would have allowed for Hurricane and Twister designs if we didn't have the +1 Speed DAoT hulls.

Base Speed 3 non-stealth Gravity Engines or better. These would be viable for Brute UD Body PDRs to Superdreads, giving Speed 3 for the same amount of Power and Omnidirectional on top to PDR and Dreads and being an improvement for any Superdread that is not Deus, not that they would use spinal weapons but its still a +. Gravity propulsion seems to work better the larger the object is, at least with our current tech, as seen with the special rule and Superheavy Gravitic Drives that we use on shipyards and space stations.

Fast Omnidirectional Engines. This one would need a lot of research into Gravity Engines I believe, or some other reactionless propulsion tech, and would get rid of that pesky -25% fire rate for spinal weapon ships harassing at +2 Speed, as well as allowing for +1 Speed Harass.


New ideas:

Dodgy Engines. More smaller thrusters, capable of rapidly changing course. Slower, but +HP from dodging, and cut down Omnidirectional negating that -25% fire rate of spinals harassing at +2 Speed from having to completely turn around to shoot.

Straight Line Engines. The opposite, faster but hard to change direction with them making the ship predictable and unable to dodge as well, resulting in -HP. Interestingly, these engines would be nonviable for spinal weapon harassers due to the -25% fire rate thing, and might even make non-spinal weapon harassment harder (give the -25% fire rate rule?) too so some very interesting tradeoffs.

Blink Engines. Not quite engines, more likely to be a modifier I think, but the idea is a ship with a daemonologist occupied psythrone. Lots of +HP from dodging and Omnidirection from being able to teleport to turn around for example. Really looking forward to psythrone voidships.
 
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Immature yes, but it has some fundamental problems that refinement seems unlikely to solve such as the No Hulk rule and the expense, as Dark Matter cost a lot more than hydrogen for plasma reactors to fuse. This combines in a rather niche reactor no matter the maturity I think.

Ejecting the core is not I think viable, because such a system would mean having a tunnel from the outside of the ship straight to the reactor. Sure there would be armored shutters and such, but thats still a considerable weakness. Star Trek ships solve this with structural integrity fields allowing them to put a lot of armor into a single armor plate and by relying mostly on shields rather than armor. Their shape and size also makes the warp core pretty close to the surface, here it would be buried under quite possibly kilometers of hull. Maybe some kind of a specialized emergency teleporter could work, but mass limit... hm.

Actually, First Worldship has teleporters that are now obsolete because they are a fancy way to dump stuff into hell, but... in this case that's what we would want isn't it? Our teleporters can not port something so large, but these perhaps could? That could work. Have asked.
Why couldn't we use structural integrity fields? We have ion integrity fields. They're impractical to use across the whole ship, but they should be something we can apply to just the sets of shutters over the core.
Why is Hail discounted here? I thought that the small % of its value being made of CP was because it was resource expensive, not easy to construct. Am confused, but certainly pleased!

Hm, it occurs to me that the halving of CPs value would discount Escorts by -30%, but larger ships more such as Gridarvol-R by -42%, encouraging a more top heavy fleet.

Hm, checking the value of different sizes of CP with the cost progression I used with Small CPs...
using 70 as Price Per Small CP, I get that Large should be 87.5 so 95 is +8.5% more
Huge compared to 95 Large should be 142.5 so 155 is +8.7% more
Gargantuan should be 271.25 so 340 is +25.3% more
Colossal should be 680 so 780 is +14.7% more

Interesting, Gargantuan seem to have an abnormally high markup.
I don't know why Hail is discounted. I was just commenting on what it looks like.

It is kind of peculiar that Gargantuan has an abnormally high markup considering we bought a ton of those from Secundus.

The idea is powerful enough beam moved slowly enough to cause damage to hull of course, that sounds quite doable for the Disintegrator technology to me especially against thinner armors of screen ships. Hell, multiple piercing DI beams used at the same time could result in a cut rather holes all over, multiplying the damage I imagine.

Why would a spinal mount be able to do that and say a BB DI not? It should be more accurate even with a turret mount.
Unless you think a disintegrator is punching a tiny hole in one side of the ship and out the other, then holding to a small area will always get more internals than sweeping it. Even if it's moved slowly enough to damage the hull, you're still multiplying the volume of armor that you're disintegrating, which means less hull is disintegrated since there's a relatively fixed amount of matter removed each time.

I would justify it as even the BB DI isn't doing enough damage to punch through to a reactor, whereas a spinal could.

Thinking about it, the best niche for this weapon would probably be Escort anti-screen spinal. That would fix our lack of a good escort anti-screen weapon, give them a proper spinal weapon, and make use of the SWM both of our escorts have. Also, the only other niche I can think of would be a Pen 9 CR+ spinal which would clash with Ragnarok.

I am thinking basically a CR DI optimized for beams rather than blasts that trades a lot of Pen for Damage, ending up with very low Pen perhaps that of Escort or Cruiser Batteries, and due to only being really viable against thin armors not scalable. A possible problem could be though that an Escort Spinal should be like a Lance for a Light Cruiser or greater, hard to think of a way to limit to to escorts.
An escort spinal is the same size as a light cruiser battery pretty much. You can't even fit a light cruiser lance on an OPW3 escort.

Also the pen is why escort batteries are so incredibly terrible. Escort batteries actually do more damage per ton than nova cannons. It's just their incredibly low pen means they're terrible against even other escorts. Don't try to invent new weapons with escort battery pen.

Also given the description of disintegrators being that they essentially delete a small amount of matter almost independent of what that matter is, I don't think it should be possible to optimize them for dealing with low armor targets that way. You'd be just distributing the amount of deletion in a different shape. If you can raise the amount deleted then that's just a flat damage increase to apply rather than a tradeoff in damage vs pen.

Hm, could we commission the Trolls to design us new armor materials for voidships? This is something that they have not explored much surely, lacking any, and they are the greatest masters of material science known to us.
Sounds plausible at least. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come up with something we could use, considering their reliance on transmutation to use materials we can't afford on scale.

-0.5 Speed armor. That would be viable and in fact a pretty good niche, not all Harassers could afford it.
What would use it? The only harasser that could get back to speed after losing 1.5 speed (-.5 from this armor, but losing additional 1 from light) would be a Zephyr, and it would be cost 3 power from other stuff. It's not even worth using medium armor on the zephyr, so hard to imagine this would be.

Viable Medium Armor, good enough for our Rangers to effectively trade -2 Power for it and come out ahead durability wise. Dunno what multiplier that means.
FakeEdit: I have realized that our only applicable Ranger would be Blaze/Scorch and I suppose the Patrol LC, because G-R uses UDA and a Destroyer (Ranger Escort) can have it too so not a priority at all.
The destroyer golem might be able to use UDA, but I kind of doubt it if our CP is increasing fast enough to half its cost. But as it is, it already uses heavy armor so better medium wouldn't replace it most likely.

Perhaps a +1.5/+2 Speed armor with a negative ArM multiplier could work? +1.5 Speed would mean +1 maximum attainable Speed (without horrendously costly Overcharge Engines 2 with its -4 Power) at the cost of -1 Power with the Slightly Overcharge Engines modifier.

Energized Armor. Ion Integrity Fields? -Power, +Speed, decent +Armor. Possible weakness to ambushes.

Some sort of a +AA armor perhaps.
What would you even use an ultra-light armor on?

Energized Armor sounds really cool to me, though I'm not sure how you get +Speed in that. I guess you're basing it on light armor. Reminds me of Star Trek: Enterprise polarized hull plating.

+AA armor I'm not sure how that would be related to the armor. AA is more how many turrets you can mount on there. Maybe some sort of modifier where you can trade a bit of armor for AA because you put so many AA guns on you're compromising the armor a bit. But I doubt we'd ever use that.

Void Shields

We currently have a choice between 1x, 2x, and 3x base Shields with 2x costing 0 Power and going higher or lower means +/- 2 Power. We have Ultimate Shields as a possibility, but it is difficult to say what those would look like as (4x Shield -4 Power) seems underwhelming, amounting to +11% Shields compared to using that Power on OPS 2.

There are no reasonable variables beyond xShields and +/- Power that I can think of here.
As long as Ultimate Shields didn't have a +CP/Cost modifier, an 11% upgrade to shields would be quite a significant benefit. Though it would also give us more top end benefit to more power, which has become relevant on a few of our speculations. It's 11% better than OPS2, but it's 14% better than OPS3 with 1 less power.

+1.5-2 Speed Engines. These would allow for previously impossible things such as a UD Armored Raider, use of UD Body in more classes, and Speed 8 Harassers that are not escorts if we scrounge up the Power for it. It would have allowed for Hurricane and Twister designs if we didn't have the +1 Speed DAoT hulls.
We really can't afford the UD for using UD body in more classes. Also they'd only allow such fast designs if they were more power efficient than OE2, which seems a bit dubious.

That said, it's very clear that the elder races have flat out better performance from their engines than we do. So maybe we can develop improved engines beyond what the DAoT had available to them.
 
Why couldn't we use structural integrity fields? We have ion integrity fields. They're impractical to use across the whole ship, but they should be something we can apply to just the sets of shutters over the core.
They are used on entire Hives to my knowledge? So why would they be impractical for voidships but practical on relatively thin armor plates? No, I think that Ion Integrity Field increases durability of a lot of mass by little and the Power cost is not worth it on voidships, or perhaps Adamantium benefits little from it.

Unless you think a disintegrator is punching a tiny hole in one side of the ship and out the other, then holding to a small area will always get more internals than sweeping it. Even if it's moved slowly enough to damage the hull, you're still multiplying the volume of armor that you're disintegrating, which means less hull is disintegrated since there's a relatively fixed amount of matter removed each time.

I would justify it as even the BB DI isn't doing enough damage to punch through to a reactor, whereas a spinal could.
Depends on how the DIs are tuned I imagine.

Escort DIs outright ignore Armor up to 2.7, doing full damage. Now this does not necessarily mean that they can sweep like this without a cost as such Pen counts on focused shots, but this would effectively be a tuned CR DI (ignores armor up to A4.7), and one fully intending to trade Penetration for Damage. So the total volume disintegrated might well be significantly lower, but unless the normal shot hits something vital it would be in a much more damaging shape.

Looking as the description of the tech again, I am pretty sure that DIs already work by hitting critical targets and that its accounted for in their damage.

Which makes me think, this weapon might be less damaging than I thought, but more accurate than DIs as it does not have to be as precise.

An escort spinal is the same size as a light cruiser battery pretty much. You can't even fit a light cruiser lance on an OPW3 escort.

Also the pen is why escort batteries are so incredibly terrible. Escort batteries actually do more damage per ton than nova cannons. It's just their incredibly low pen means they're terrible against even other escorts. Don't try to invent new weapons with escort battery pen.

Also given the description of disintegrators being that they essentially delete a small amount of matter almost independent of what that matter is, I don't think it should be possible to optimize them for dealing with low armor targets that way. You'd be just distributing the amount of deletion in a different shape. If you can raise the amount deleted then that's just a flat damage increase to apply rather than a tradeoff in damage vs pen.
Oh right, messed up my math.

Why not? It would be compensated for with very high damage, resulting in a weapon that I think would be very effective against screen but totally suck against anything heavier, which is the intent. Also explains why the DI tech would not include such a weapon, it is from an era of far too heavily armored ships.

That's the intent, to just change the shape of the volume of deleted matter, even at the cost of lower volume. The same volume in a column deleted does a lot less damage than a thin slice.

Sounds plausible at least. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come up with something we could use, considering their reliance on transmutation to use materials we can't afford on scale.
We can produce even their masterpiece, Orichalcum with pure tech though. Their mastery of material science appears to include tech based production methods, and our commission would include that.

What would use it? The only harasser that could get back to speed after losing 1.5 speed (-.5 from this armor, but losing additional 1 from light) would be a Zephyr, and it would be cost 3 power from other stuff. It's not even worth using medium armor on the zephyr, so hard to imagine this would be.
Oops, that was meant to be +0.5 Speed. Fixed now. +0.5 Speed would mean -1 Power from current Light one combined with more Armor.

The destroyer golem might be able to use UDA, but I kind of doubt it if our CP is increasing fast enough to half its cost. But as it is, it already uses heavy armor so better medium wouldn't replace it most likely.
Ah, you mean faster naval production than previously expected? That's a shame, UDA Destroyer Golem would be a complete monster. Better Medium Armor can't replace it as armor cant be replaced like that with the exception of upgrading Heavy+ to UDA. Would require a new class (No.) or Tranth doing a cheat refit.

What would you even use an ultra-light armor on?

Energized Armor sounds really cool to me, though I'm not sure how you get +Speed in that. I guess you're basing it on light armor. Reminds me of Star Trek: Enterprise polarized hull plating.

+AA armor I'm not sure how that would be related to the armor. AA is more how many turrets you can mount on there. Maybe some sort of modifier where you can trade a bit of armor for AA because you put so many AA guns on you're compromising the armor a bit. But I doubt we'd ever use that.
Depends on how much of a -Armor it would have. Higher maximum speed aside it would also basically allow us to trade some -Armor for +Power, which Harassers can do a lot with.

Yeah I rather like the energized armor idea. The stronger the armor (UDA aside) the more -Speed because its heavier, an energized one would get part of its durability from from the energy fields so it would be lighter. I doubt that this would allow us to create something super tough, and we don't need that besides because UDA, so I imagine something like a Medium Armor with -Power +Speed.

Sturdy made me think that it might work, AA seems connected with the hulls durability somehow, maybe the armor could be optimized for that some. Not sure.

As long as Ultimate Shields didn't have a +CP/Cost modifier, an 11% upgrade to shields would be quite a significant benefit. Though it would also give us more top end benefit to more power, which has become relevant on a few of our speculations. It's 11% better than OPS2, but it's 14% better than OPS3 with 1 less power.
Well sure, but Singularity Thrusters give +20% HP. And this is called Ultimate and meant for Deus alongside those. So such a small improvement seems unlikely, if still useful. I expect x5 modifier really, that would fit with the name, but dunno about Power cost maybe -5 Power.

We really can't afford the UD for using UD body in more classes. Also they'd only allow such fast designs if they were more power efficient than OE2, which seems a bit dubious.

That said, it's very clear that the elder races have flat out better performance from their engines than we do. So maybe we can develop improved engines beyond what the DAoT had available to them.
Oh the idea is +1.5-2 Speed for -3-4 Power or so, which yes dubious with current tech. Will edit the post.

Oh right we should have written up some better engines from FWS, that's civilian tech. Ah well, can't think of everything, maybe next Conclave we will be advanced enough for it to share them.
 
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They are used on entire Hives to my knowledge? So why would they be impractical for voidships but practical on relatively thin armor plates? No, I think that Ion Integrity Field increases durability of a lot of mass by little and the Power cost is not worth it on voidships, or perhaps Adamantium benefits little from it.
They flat out double the durability of defenses, that's not 'a little'. I think that it's just that the power cost is not worth it. A hive can always pile on more reactors.

Escort DIs outright ignore Armor up to 2.7, doing full damage. Now this does not necessarily mean that they can sweep like this without a cost as such Pen counts on focused shots, but this would effectively be a tuned CR DI (ignores armor up to A4.7), and one fully intending to trade Penetration for Damage. So the total volume disintegrated might well be significantly lower, but unless the normal shot hits something vital it would be in a much more damaging shape.
Why would a shallow sweep be a more damaging shape than a column deep into the ship? You're deleting more armor and less actual systems with the shallow sweep.

Why not? It would be compensated for with very high damage, resulting in a weapon that I think would be very effective against screen but totally suck against anything heavier, which is the intent. Also explains why the DI tech would not include such a weapon, it is from an era of far too heavily armored ships.
Escort batteries already do more damage per ton than nova cannons. They actually are the highest damage/slot weapon. They are still terrible because their pen makes them do poor damage even to escort armor.

Why would you be able to adjust an extreme pen but very low damage weapon to make it somehow more damage than the highest damage weapons in the game? I don't even understand your logic on how a weapon that deletes a fixed amount of matter is supposed to translate into that. If you can make it delete a much larger mass then that's not a trade of pen for damage, that's a flat damage buff.

That's the intent, to just change the shape of the volume of deleted matter, even at the cost of lower volume. The same volume in a column deleted does a lot less damage than a thin slice.
Only if you can make the slice thinner than the column so that it still penetrates just as far. If you can produce the same power in a narrower beam that will generally do more effective damage, however there's no reason it wouldn't already be maximally focused, that would be part of penetrating armor. What you were talking about before is sweeping the beam across the target, which spreads the effect over a larger area, which means less depth of penetration. A column that gets deeper into the target will damage more key systems than a shallower slice along the outside of the hull.


If we're developing a new weapon system from disintegrators I have an idea though. Pair a laser battery with a disintegrator with integrated firing and aiming. Have the disintegrator fire a millisecond or so before the laser, it deletes a hole in the armor that the laser then goes through. This could then hybridize some of the damage of a standard battery and some of the pen of a disintegrator, potentially producing a much better result than either weapon.

We can produce even their masterpiece, Orichalcum with pure tech though. Their mastery of material science appears to include tech based production methods, and our commission would include that.
Only in tiny quantities at great cost. Being able to kludge together a way to produce it doesn't translate to being able to produce it in the vast quantity needed for voidships.

Ah, you mean faster naval production than previously expected? That's a shame, UDA Destroyer Golem would be a complete monster. Better Medium Armor can't replace it as armor cant be replaced like that with the exception of upgrading Heavy+ to UDA. Would require a new class (No.) or Tranth doing a cheat refit.
Honestly I'm just spitballing. UDA production is only doubling over the next century, while price of CP is supposed to halve over that same time period. That suggests to me that CP is likely to also double, but that is an intuitive result that has little connection to actual economics. Without an actual number on how much shipyards are going to expand it's impossible to be sure. I won't be surprised if shipyards triple over the next century, or if they're only increasing 50%.

If CP production increases by 50% we can do UDA golems probably. If CP production triples we'll be bleeding UDA pretty quickly and might need to take it away from some of our current lineup.

Depends on how much of a -Armor it would have. Higher maximum speed aside it would also basically allow us to trade some -Armor for +Power, which Harassers can do a lot with.
Usually it would just be a bit of weapons or shields, and I rather doubt that OPS2 would make up for losing armor.

Well sure, but Singularity Thrusters give +20% HP. And this is called Ultimate and meant for Deus alongside those. So such a small improvement seems unlikely, if still useful. I expect x5 modifier really, that would fit with the name, but dunno about Power cost maybe -5 Power.
x5 shields with -5 power would be really nice. I just kind of expect Durin to limit such improvements for balance reasons.

Oh right we should have written up some better engines from FWS, that's civilian tech. Ah well, can't think of everything, maybe next Conclave we will be advanced enough for it to share them.
Bah yeah that's a missed opportunity. If they mostly have star trek tech you have Impulse drives which as a reactionless sort could do omnidirectional as a bonus. Or just give better speed/power benefit in general. It's definitely a civilian tech.
 
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Bah yeah that's a missed opportunity. If they mostly have star trek tech you have Impulse drives which as a reactionless sort could do omnidirectional as a bonus. Or just give better speed/power benefit in general. It's definitely a civilian tech.
fun fact! we have reactionless impulse drives in RL! really!....well, sorta, its still in the "can it be made big enough to actually work" stage. but it really is a RL mechanism that NASA is working on!

"Mach effects are transient variations in the rest masses of objects that simultaneously experience accelerations and internal energy changes"

www.nasa.gov

Mach Effect for In Space Propulsion: Interstellar Mission - NASA

NIAC 2018 Phase II Woodward Macheffects
(you can't see it, but I'm grinning wildly right now!)

if it works at the top-end of what their hoping? they plan to send a probe to another planet! cas reactionless === infinite fuel!
 
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@Durin A couple of questions, if you don't mind:

1. Since the First Worldship has a powerful AI and has computer technology designed for cross-compatibility between different species, would it be able to assist with repairing the STC constructor? (Assumimg this was politically viable, of course.)

2. If we did fix the STC constructor, would the First Worldship's AI be able to operate it? (Again, assuming that this was politically viable.)

If we don't know the answers to either of these questions for certain, can you say if Tranth believes it would be possible, based on what he both currently knows and suspects about the First Worldship and its technology?
 
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Immature yes, but it has some fundamental problems that refinement seems unlikely to solve such as the No Hulk rule and the expense, as Dark Matter cost a lot more than hydrogen for plasma reactors to fuse. This combines in a rather niche reactor no matter the maturity I think.

Ejecting the core is not I think viable, because such a system would mean having a tunnel from the outside of the ship straight to the reactor. Sure there would be armored shutters and such, but thats still a considerable weakness. Star Trek ships solve this with structural integrity fields allowing them to put a lot of armor into a single armor plate and by relying mostly on shields rather than armor. Their shape and size also makes the warp core pretty close to the surface, here it would be buried under quite possibly kilometers of hull. Maybe some kind of a specialized emergency teleporter could work, but mass limit... hm.

Actually, First Worldship has teleporters that are now obsolete because they are a fancy way to dump stuff into hell, but... in this case that's what we would want isn't it? Our teleporters can not port something so large, but these perhaps could? That could work. Have asked.

For Harassers the problem with DMR is the Expensive tag, the limited increase in firepower it would provide, and endurance on offensive ops. You can skim gas giants for fuel for plasma reactors, DM needs a supply line. Could be viable though, yes.

DMR Zephyr... interesting, gimme a min... just OPW 2 and 1 useless Power, not worth it. Maybe if DRM was +8 Power, that would allow for Speed 8 OPS2 and OPW2 which might be worth the increased cost, dunno how expensive DMR is. I know that CPs are most important, but least so for Escorts and the value of CPs will halve within a century apparently.



Why is Hail discounted here? I thought that the small % of its value being made of CP was because it was resource expensive, not easy to construct. Am confused, but certainly pleased!

Hm, it occurs to me that the halving of CPs value would discount Escorts by -30%, but larger ships more such as Gridarvol-R by -42%, encouraging a more top heavy fleet.

Hm, checking the value of different sizes of CP with the cost progression I used with Small CPs...
using 70 as Price Per Small CP, I get that Large should be 87.5 so 95 is +8.5% more
Huge compared to 95 Large should be 142.5 so 155 is +8.7% more
Gargantuan should be 271.25 so 340 is +25.3% more
Colossal should be 680 so 780 is +14.7% more

Interesting, Gargantuan seem to have an abnormally high markup.


Hm, could we commission the Trolls to design us new armor materials for voidships? This is something that they have not explored much surely, lacking any, and they are the greatest masters of material science known to us.


The idea is powerful enough beam moved slowly enough to cause damage to hull of course, that sounds quite doable for the Disintegrator technology to me especially against thinner armors of screen ships. Hell, multiple piercing DI beams used at the same time could result in a cut rather holes all over, multiplying the damage I imagine.

Why would a spinal mount be able to do that and say a BB DI not? It should be more accurate even with a turret mount.

Thinking about it, the best niche for this weapon would probably be Escort anti-screen spinal. That would fix our lack of a good escort anti-screen weapon, give them a proper spinal weapon, and make use of the SWM both of our escorts have. Also, the only other niche I can think of would be a Pen 9 CR+ spinal which would clash with Ragnarok.

I am thinking basically a CR DI optimized for beams rather than blasts that trades a lot of Pen for Damage, ending up with very low Pen perhaps that of Escort or Cruiser Batteries, and due to only being really viable against thin armors not scalable. A possible problem could be though that an Escort Spinal should be like a Lance for a Light Cruiser or greater, hard to think of a way to limit to to escorts.
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Actually, on the thought of an emergency core-ejection system, IF there isn't an (intolerable, compared to a core breach inside the hull )risk of blowback, and a stripped-down,"dedicated" cargo-rated system would be economically viable (for caps/Supercaps at least)would a modified derivative of the first worldship's teleporter design be possibly be viable for purging a collapsing/destabilising reactor core by intentionally dumping it directly into the warp?
 
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