The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
New questions and answers. People took my offhand comment last time and wanted to do it again, gotta go fast.
1) What price did the Angyl Prince pay to offer the Battle?
1) you dont know but its major
2) Do Devaworld locations still work for the Angyl Battle?
2) no
1) Is Orralus 3 finally secure?
1) seems to be
For the moment anyway
2) What was Angyl Prince's specialty and powerlevel? (Based on how they defended their daemonworld when the Triumvirate took it to begin with)
2) they were low honoured, and seemed to be an Inquisitor
3) Will the Angyl Prince be personally taking the field?
3) yes
4) How scary is it to fight a war beast heavy force that has IFF Healing Cataclysm working on them?
4) terrifying
5) Should I count the Euryale as a contacted people (since Areatha introduced us to Lamia ages ago), or uncontacted because we haven't done it under the new system?
5) contacted
6) Is Sky Dragon invisibility something we can replicate with psychic creators? If so, is it relatively suitable or more of a high control power?
6) it's a high control power
7) Same things for Dragonfly stunning
7) more viable
1) Viable enough to do, or does the high power requirements to really deal with enemy psykers on the battlefield and stuff carry over to psytech?
1) the high power requirements carry on
best for dealing with infantrating psykers
1) Can we instead put the hypotehtical Dragonfly Stunning machine on a Titan and expect it to work better? Since both psychical power and Sa power wise it should have enough oomph for it
1) maybe
create one and find out
2) Infiltrating psykers, since the amount of power they'd need to overpower it would also make them noticeable enough to screw up their stealth?
2) yep
8) Do I file the Fae under peoples or guardians?
8' people's
9) Is graphite on the troll truemat list?
9) no
2) Are we able to call Jane in here, since she did some hunting actions this turn, or do we just assume that she's never available in flashpoints?
2) assume she is never avalible
unless she in mentioned in the write up
she is an asset of the scale you might get flashpoints to clean up after her rather then the reverse
1) Will we be able to search for a couple of specific items on the troll truemat list as long as they're on it instead of just things with a particular purpose?
1) yes but in limited numbers
1) Does the Dragonfly stunning power only work on psykers using their own power, or does it apply to other things like sorcery or blessings (as long as they're weak enough)?
1) should work on sorcery, not on blessings
1) Wrote this The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)
1) amaxing timing
I literlly jsut finished threadmarking it
1) How much more significant is it to cripple or kill a daemon prince compared to a daemon of the same power?
1) far more
with a daemon they use up bandwidth from their god that can be reallocated after death
some or all of a daemon princes power is theirs not their masters
and that power is lost with their death
2) What happened to all our Cataclysm Casters?
2) lost some with inceased number of choirs
3) Has someone already sent that thank-you letter to Mogral in the slim hope of distracting Mortarion, who's being more of a problem lately, or do we need to propose it at the meeting this turn to do that?
3) its been tried and had no nimpac
4) Just to check, but we had three resurrected people slots, with two being taken by the Giants and Mechanytes at this point, right?
4) yes
5) Who's better at commanding Psykers, Hajek or Xavier?
5) xavier
6) Do Sirens, like the lizardmen, not really do gender, with all the feminine pronouns we've been using simply being for human convenience?
6) pretty much
7) Has the aquatic xenotech we got from the Eldar that we originally only traded to the Azure Bay and Deep Sea sirens proliferated among all of them by now, or is the no trading other people's tech away to third parties taboo still in place there?
7) its been shared with the Council fo peoples
8) What is the quality level of our Knight Corps? They're filed under PDF..
8) Helguard
1) Why are the knights under PDF then?
1) thata how theya re orgnaised
2) What's the firepower of 1 Choir vs 1 Cataclysm Caster?
2) choirs is far greater
several times as much
1) How much do Tjapals tend to adapt after each battle?
1) the better ones a decent amount
most little
2) Is flint on the troll truemat list?
2) yes
3) Are Riksjaeger a good addition to an Astartes-off or somewhat redundant?
3) some would help, a major deployment is not needed
4) Are gemstones a single Truemat or is it one for each gemstone (Emerald, Ruby, Diamond, etc)?
4) theya re one
5) Would the Animancers have fully understood how Lin's blessing and the modifications to his soul worked? What about Avernus?
5) yes
6) How many Titan Battlegroups is '1 Titan Legion'?
6) 15-30
you are fielding two understength legios
7) Can we retask (some of) the BA task force over to the Devaworld instead and shore them up with Riksjaeger? The narrative of Astartes seems a lot more useful on the Devaworld than on fighting an Astartes-off?
7) no, they have their own rasons to be there in particular
(narrative ties to the enemy astartes)
8) In-Character who's doing the force distribution?
8) Rakes
9) Are Tranth-Pattern Titans better or worse compared to Callamus-Pattern Titans in a fight against an Archangyl?
9) better as one of the big issues is getting shots off against it
10) Did Avernus or its saner researchers manage to make any headway into the termite god's idea of applying Cataclysm spell creation principles to divine servitor creation, or was that judged to be impossible or nearly impossible, with the god being ganked out of an abundance of caution rather than because it was making real progress?
10) no
11) What was the average Martial score of Old Imperial generals?
11) late teens
with their being outliers on both ends of the scale
you have some martial idiots with less then 5
some military genuises with upper 30s
12) How do we get the option to do more psychic creators for different powers, if we can find a suitable power? Do we need an individual feasibility for each?
12) yes
13) What is the diminishing returns point for psyker choirs and Cataclysm Casters for the Zortheon uprising?
13) around a hundred of each
14) Where do undeployed troops go to?
14) reserves
15) What does the maximum forces on each front represent?
15) varies by location
but mix of room for them and tramsport limits
16) Are there/Has there been any Khornate Empire equivalent to the Principalities of Change or the Realm of Death?
16) no
none of the khrone lords with the inflaunce to make one wanted to
1) How do the Sky Dragon Corps fare for each location?
1) they work well everywhere but the insurgancy
2) I figure that for the non-Uprising Fronts, there are no diminishing returns points for PEF, Choirs or Cataclysm Casters?
2) no
3) If Ophelia decides to hit the Zortheon Uprising with an Exterminatus what would we do?
3) evacuate
4) What makes L.C Aurulius so certain he will win?
a) What reason did he give for losing the first time around? (I assume he taunted us..)
4) you dont know
a) unreasonble number of psykers
1) Whose psykers were those anyways?
1) yours
1) Does that give a slight narrative advantage to us if we bury them under another pile of Avernite psykers?
1) no
1) Based on the results of the First Battle of Caridian, how much more forces would Aurulius have needed to reverse the result and win?
1) a several times the numbers or a lot more elites
5) Is Wood a viable Truematerial?
5) no
6) Do we have a better idea of what the Sanguinor was nature-wise these days?
6) no
7) Besides Alpis, who we know died in the Grand Incursion, what's the status on the rest of these? The Long Night Part Two: Sparks at Midnight: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k)
7) they are rumoured to exist
8) Can the Masakh (who need to eat Sapient Flesh) consume Waitwoods for sustenance?
8) no
9) Have the Masakh tried a kroot-lite approach where they join as auxiliary forces to other factions and get corpses of friend and foes as pay?
9) that is what theya re trying
10) As the Unrestricted Goddess of Healing, does Isha sort of like.. tax.. the Chaos Gods whenever they heal/ressuruct their Champions?
10) yes
11) Are there still cavern Orks down there, or did the PM purge them along with their surface cousins a while back?
11) they got pruged
12) Is Maledictus the Threnody Dragon who fell to Tjapa during the Gilded Skies incursion still alive, or did he die sometime before now?
12) still alive
2) Is he on the Ophelian front right now, or elsewhere?
2) elsewhere
13) Is metal (not any particular kind of metal, just metal in general) a valid truemat, and if so, do the trolls have it on their list?
13) no
14) Would the Mechanicus conservatives who blew up a quarter of Vanaheim's shipyards during the civil war be Tjapa bait if they existed today, seeing how we've basically dived into mega-heresy these days?
14) yes
16) Do the Masakh have to eat flesh where the DNA would be able to create a sapient being if cloned, or is it more conceptual, where it needs to come from a thinking being, with mindless clones with a sapient species's genes not working and say, a perfectly sapient Khoswe flesh blob abomination of science working?
16) more conceptional
17) Is the sophistication of Tranth's super projects such that even the elder Races are paying attention?
17) sme yes
18a) What rank do you need to be in the Trust army to get Hyper-Juvenat?
18b) What rank for the navy?
18) Lieutenant-General
b) Commodore
19) Is there an official webway gate in the Avernus system?
19) yes
20) Could you make a new stored actions tab in the Bonfire thread sometime? A bunch of the stuff in the linked Sparks tab is either missing (examining Pert's stuff, for example), no longer a thing (Asteroid Miners, which we needed to do a new version of), or out of date (like Chaos counterfrequencies)
20) at some point I will
1) Could Isha theoretically fix the Masakh's need to consume flesh, since both they and she would view it as a problem to be fixed, or does conceptual healing need the problem to be something inflicted upon the individual or race later on or put in as an accident during creation rather than intentionally baked in at the start?
1) in theory yes
1) In practice, is it more incredibly difficult or something she could do easily enough but lacks the time to?
1) could do easily but lacks the time
2) Any issues or advice on this deployment?Force Distribution Flashpoint 4 (Shard's)
2) looks good to me
3) What are the more common forms of anti-psyker forces used by Tjapals these days?
3) wards and kill teams
4) In Turn 4 results, Jane's hunting actions, Ridcully's Unchained and Mortarion GDs, and the LDs are missing their stunt bonuses
4) will add
3) Are specific types of wood viable truemats, or is it just the idea of trees or using them for material not being prevalent enough throughout the galaxy?
3) more the definition iof wood is too broad
and no single type is used enough
4) What kinds of materials are common throughout galactic history for being written on/holding writing?
4) unknown
5) What's the -Stealth on Degenerate Matter Reactor?
5) similar to AM
6) Can troll reactor be used on Degenerate Matter Reactor?
6) no
1) Do Sleigh Beggy, the rare individuals among other peoples of Avernus who are Fae magnets (and display other traits like being good at manipulating illusions), still have issues if they move out of the system (ie being daemon magnets or having hero's luck)?
1) tend to end up with heroes luck
1) Are the Khoswe and Sakarians on the second continent with the Space-Warped Vale?
1) they are
alsot he Termites
2) It's mentioned in the Tzazar omake that "earthquakes can birth ground maws" on Avernus, alongside the fact that wildfires sometimes become sentient elementals. Do I file ground maws under wildlife, and if so, do you have any more details for the entry?
2)short lived Wind of Fire elermentals
theya re wildlife
3) If we were to write a wiki entry about humanity on the peoples page, what notable traits would you put down?
3) wide range oif technology
biggest known range in psychic ability
only known speices to have nateral Ka and Sa users
fast breeding
4) Same for the Quartok
4) large, tough and get bigger as they age
nateral marksmen
average at best reflexes
5) Adamant Body reduces the cost of Upscale Weapons one step to +100%/x2 weapons, but how does it work with Two Steps Larger weapons?
b) I assume it has no interaction with One/Two Step Smaller weapons? Even if those would be Spinal Weapons
5) reduces them to +900%/*10
b) it does not
6) Can the Anatolian create a second Grey Knight lineage from his new body?
6) he could
does not see the need
the first one is doing fine
2) Could he create a Trueborn analogue upgrade package?
2) he probebly could
3) GK question: But like most things doesn't have time and doesn't have need since chaos isn't the most pressing concern right now.
3) yep
7) Is healing Zahhak taking Isha's full attention right now, or is that more something she just needs to poke every now and then while she does other things?
7) takes up around a third of her time
8) Are "Skaven" and "Great Horned Rat" actual in-universe names used to describe those entities at some point?
8) Yes
some of the ancint histories of the Khoswe still remember those names
but their normal taes refuse to use them
9) Are diamonds their own truemat, or lumped into gemstones?
9) lumped into gemstones
10) Is the Anatolian trying to learn High Magic?
10) no
1) Lack of time as opposed to lack of interest? High magic feels like the sort of thing everyone who gets advanced enough would want to learn eventually for the sheer utility if nothing else, unless they are absurdly specialised or entirely incompatible.
1) pretty much
1) they are and yes
2) Are enough demons eventually poisonous to a siren?
2) in quick sucession yes
over time they digest them
4) Are Anatolian's Transcends relevant towards the Blackstone Fortress 2.0 Project?
4) one of them is
1) one of them is: learning, cause even if it isn't his area of speciality I'm sure you can apply principles from one to another.
1) yeah
2) ...OK this might be a bit of an offer, but IIRC one of the seals on the sword requires a living Necrontyr, and it's super strong as long as the chance exists one could live again. Does the world have Necrontyr DNA?
2) something does, not the word but something
1) Should we be concerned that nobody knows who or what that is? Unless its Trazyn 😛
1) maybe
3) How fucked would we be if the dragon was swapped with an OO? Say when emps died.
3) it depends on from when
but think about fighting against the krork
and Avernus
but buffed
4) Roughly when will the next crop of superweapons like the Blackstone Fortress 2.0 Project, start getting deployed on the Dragon Front? Did you start a timer or something after the last superweapon exchange with the Void Dragon? Or are these projects tracked individually?
4) tarced seperatly
1) Does that mean that the Dragon War may well be won by way of either side getting a random nat 100 on one of the research rolls for these superweapons?
1) would need to explode
a nat 100 could be decisive, but not a silver bullet
not by itself
2) Out of curiosity how long would Ribbit's lighthouse last without the geomantic principles used for permanence?
2) without external pressure in the current warp?
decades
if one of the five tried cracking it?
weeks
1) So is it something about true geomancy that tells them to fuck off/just makes it practically immune to their nonsense as chaosy beings? Or damage.
1) more makes it way harder to damage
2) oh...I think I'm starting to realise why fights with true geomancy get nasty. I take it that Ka can destroy true geomancy stuff, better than almost anything else, but because its permanent things start getting...weird.
2) yeah Ka can
doing so has an impact
you didnt think it was just negative emotions that turned the Sea of Souls into the Warp did you?
1) Nope, way too big and too permanent of a change for that. I assume that vice versa true geomancy has some weird effects on Ka too. Cause they're just...not meant to interact like this.
1) more it can hold up against Ka far more then any other Sa construct
2) Did the boost to Warp powers in the Materium from the Great Ritual benefit Chaos or the Sane more?
a) If Chaos, how much Psychic evolution is necessary before humans edge them out?
2)probebly chaos
a)NA
1) you dont know but its major
2) Do Devaworld locations still work for the Angyl Battle?
2) no
1) Is Orralus 3 finally secure?
1) seems to be
For the moment anyway
2) What was Angyl Prince's specialty and powerlevel? (Based on how they defended their daemonworld when the Triumvirate took it to begin with)
2) they were low honoured, and seemed to be an Inquisitor
3) Will the Angyl Prince be personally taking the field?
3) yes
4) How scary is it to fight a war beast heavy force that has IFF Healing Cataclysm working on them?
4) terrifying
5) Should I count the Euryale as a contacted people (since Areatha introduced us to Lamia ages ago), or uncontacted because we haven't done it under the new system?
5) contacted
6) Is Sky Dragon invisibility something we can replicate with psychic creators? If so, is it relatively suitable or more of a high control power?
6) it's a high control power
7) Same things for Dragonfly stunning
7) more viable
1) Viable enough to do, or does the high power requirements to really deal with enemy psykers on the battlefield and stuff carry over to psytech?
1) the high power requirements carry on
best for dealing with infantrating psykers
1) Can we instead put the hypotehtical Dragonfly Stunning machine on a Titan and expect it to work better? Since both psychical power and Sa power wise it should have enough oomph for it
1) maybe
create one and find out
2) Infiltrating psykers, since the amount of power they'd need to overpower it would also make them noticeable enough to screw up their stealth?
2) yep
8) Do I file the Fae under peoples or guardians?
8' people's
9) Is graphite on the troll truemat list?
9) no
2) Are we able to call Jane in here, since she did some hunting actions this turn, or do we just assume that she's never available in flashpoints?
2) assume she is never avalible
unless she in mentioned in the write up
she is an asset of the scale you might get flashpoints to clean up after her rather then the reverse
1) Will we be able to search for a couple of specific items on the troll truemat list as long as they're on it instead of just things with a particular purpose?
1) yes but in limited numbers
1) Does the Dragonfly stunning power only work on psykers using their own power, or does it apply to other things like sorcery or blessings (as long as they're weak enough)?
1) should work on sorcery, not on blessings
1) Wrote this The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)
1) amaxing timing
I literlly jsut finished threadmarking it
1) How much more significant is it to cripple or kill a daemon prince compared to a daemon of the same power?
1) far more
with a daemon they use up bandwidth from their god that can be reallocated after death
some or all of a daemon princes power is theirs not their masters
and that power is lost with their death
2) What happened to all our Cataclysm Casters?
2) lost some with inceased number of choirs
3) Has someone already sent that thank-you letter to Mogral in the slim hope of distracting Mortarion, who's being more of a problem lately, or do we need to propose it at the meeting this turn to do that?
3) its been tried and had no nimpac
4) Just to check, but we had three resurrected people slots, with two being taken by the Giants and Mechanytes at this point, right?
4) yes
5) Who's better at commanding Psykers, Hajek or Xavier?
5) xavier
6) Do Sirens, like the lizardmen, not really do gender, with all the feminine pronouns we've been using simply being for human convenience?
6) pretty much
7) Has the aquatic xenotech we got from the Eldar that we originally only traded to the Azure Bay and Deep Sea sirens proliferated among all of them by now, or is the no trading other people's tech away to third parties taboo still in place there?
7) its been shared with the Council fo peoples
8) What is the quality level of our Knight Corps? They're filed under PDF..
8) Helguard
1) Why are the knights under PDF then?
1) thata how theya re orgnaised
2) What's the firepower of 1 Choir vs 1 Cataclysm Caster?
2) choirs is far greater
several times as much
1) How much do Tjapals tend to adapt after each battle?
1) the better ones a decent amount
most little
2) Is flint on the troll truemat list?
2) yes
3) Are Riksjaeger a good addition to an Astartes-off or somewhat redundant?
3) some would help, a major deployment is not needed
4) Are gemstones a single Truemat or is it one for each gemstone (Emerald, Ruby, Diamond, etc)?
4) theya re one
5) Would the Animancers have fully understood how Lin's blessing and the modifications to his soul worked? What about Avernus?
5) yes
6) How many Titan Battlegroups is '1 Titan Legion'?
6) 15-30
you are fielding two understength legios
7) Can we retask (some of) the BA task force over to the Devaworld instead and shore them up with Riksjaeger? The narrative of Astartes seems a lot more useful on the Devaworld than on fighting an Astartes-off?
7) no, they have their own rasons to be there in particular
(narrative ties to the enemy astartes)
8) In-Character who's doing the force distribution?
8) Rakes
9) Are Tranth-Pattern Titans better or worse compared to Callamus-Pattern Titans in a fight against an Archangyl?
9) better as one of the big issues is getting shots off against it
10) Did Avernus or its saner researchers manage to make any headway into the termite god's idea of applying Cataclysm spell creation principles to divine servitor creation, or was that judged to be impossible or nearly impossible, with the god being ganked out of an abundance of caution rather than because it was making real progress?
10) no
11) What was the average Martial score of Old Imperial generals?
11) late teens
with their being outliers on both ends of the scale
you have some martial idiots with less then 5
some military genuises with upper 30s
12) How do we get the option to do more psychic creators for different powers, if we can find a suitable power? Do we need an individual feasibility for each?
12) yes
13) What is the diminishing returns point for psyker choirs and Cataclysm Casters for the Zortheon uprising?
13) around a hundred of each
14) Where do undeployed troops go to?
14) reserves
15) What does the maximum forces on each front represent?
15) varies by location
but mix of room for them and tramsport limits
16) Are there/Has there been any Khornate Empire equivalent to the Principalities of Change or the Realm of Death?
16) no
none of the khrone lords with the inflaunce to make one wanted to
1) How do the Sky Dragon Corps fare for each location?
1) they work well everywhere but the insurgancy
2) I figure that for the non-Uprising Fronts, there are no diminishing returns points for PEF, Choirs or Cataclysm Casters?
2) no
3) If Ophelia decides to hit the Zortheon Uprising with an Exterminatus what would we do?
3) evacuate
4) What makes L.C Aurulius so certain he will win?
a) What reason did he give for losing the first time around? (I assume he taunted us..)
4) you dont know
a) unreasonble number of psykers
1) Whose psykers were those anyways?
1) yours
1) Does that give a slight narrative advantage to us if we bury them under another pile of Avernite psykers?
1) no
1) Based on the results of the First Battle of Caridian, how much more forces would Aurulius have needed to reverse the result and win?
1) a several times the numbers or a lot more elites
5) Is Wood a viable Truematerial?
5) no
6) Do we have a better idea of what the Sanguinor was nature-wise these days?
6) no
7) Besides Alpis, who we know died in the Grand Incursion, what's the status on the rest of these? The Long Night Part Two: Sparks at Midnight: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k)
7) they are rumoured to exist
8) Can the Masakh (who need to eat Sapient Flesh) consume Waitwoods for sustenance?
8) no
9) Have the Masakh tried a kroot-lite approach where they join as auxiliary forces to other factions and get corpses of friend and foes as pay?
9) that is what theya re trying
10) As the Unrestricted Goddess of Healing, does Isha sort of like.. tax.. the Chaos Gods whenever they heal/ressuruct their Champions?
10) yes
11) Are there still cavern Orks down there, or did the PM purge them along with their surface cousins a while back?
11) they got pruged
12) Is Maledictus the Threnody Dragon who fell to Tjapa during the Gilded Skies incursion still alive, or did he die sometime before now?
12) still alive
2) Is he on the Ophelian front right now, or elsewhere?
2) elsewhere
13) Is metal (not any particular kind of metal, just metal in general) a valid truemat, and if so, do the trolls have it on their list?
13) no
14) Would the Mechanicus conservatives who blew up a quarter of Vanaheim's shipyards during the civil war be Tjapa bait if they existed today, seeing how we've basically dived into mega-heresy these days?
14) yes
16) Do the Masakh have to eat flesh where the DNA would be able to create a sapient being if cloned, or is it more conceptual, where it needs to come from a thinking being, with mindless clones with a sapient species's genes not working and say, a perfectly sapient Khoswe flesh blob abomination of science working?
16) more conceptional
17) Is the sophistication of Tranth's super projects such that even the elder Races are paying attention?
17) sme yes
18a) What rank do you need to be in the Trust army to get Hyper-Juvenat?
18b) What rank for the navy?
18) Lieutenant-General
b) Commodore
19) Is there an official webway gate in the Avernus system?
19) yes
20) Could you make a new stored actions tab in the Bonfire thread sometime? A bunch of the stuff in the linked Sparks tab is either missing (examining Pert's stuff, for example), no longer a thing (Asteroid Miners, which we needed to do a new version of), or out of date (like Chaos counterfrequencies)
20) at some point I will
1) Could Isha theoretically fix the Masakh's need to consume flesh, since both they and she would view it as a problem to be fixed, or does conceptual healing need the problem to be something inflicted upon the individual or race later on or put in as an accident during creation rather than intentionally baked in at the start?
1) in theory yes
1) In practice, is it more incredibly difficult or something she could do easily enough but lacks the time to?
1) could do easily but lacks the time
2) Any issues or advice on this deployment?Force Distribution Flashpoint 4 (Shard's)
2) looks good to me
3) What are the more common forms of anti-psyker forces used by Tjapals these days?
3) wards and kill teams
4) In Turn 4 results, Jane's hunting actions, Ridcully's Unchained and Mortarion GDs, and the LDs are missing their stunt bonuses
4) will add
3) Are specific types of wood viable truemats, or is it just the idea of trees or using them for material not being prevalent enough throughout the galaxy?
3) more the definition iof wood is too broad
and no single type is used enough
4) What kinds of materials are common throughout galactic history for being written on/holding writing?
4) unknown
5) What's the -Stealth on Degenerate Matter Reactor?
5) similar to AM
6) Can troll reactor be used on Degenerate Matter Reactor?
6) no
1) Do Sleigh Beggy, the rare individuals among other peoples of Avernus who are Fae magnets (and display other traits like being good at manipulating illusions), still have issues if they move out of the system (ie being daemon magnets or having hero's luck)?
1) tend to end up with heroes luck
1) Are the Khoswe and Sakarians on the second continent with the Space-Warped Vale?
1) they are
alsot he Termites
2) It's mentioned in the Tzazar omake that "earthquakes can birth ground maws" on Avernus, alongside the fact that wildfires sometimes become sentient elementals. Do I file ground maws under wildlife, and if so, do you have any more details for the entry?
2)short lived Wind of Fire elermentals
theya re wildlife
3) If we were to write a wiki entry about humanity on the peoples page, what notable traits would you put down?
3) wide range oif technology
biggest known range in psychic ability
only known speices to have nateral Ka and Sa users
fast breeding
4) Same for the Quartok
4) large, tough and get bigger as they age
nateral marksmen
average at best reflexes
5) Adamant Body reduces the cost of Upscale Weapons one step to +100%/x2 weapons, but how does it work with Two Steps Larger weapons?
b) I assume it has no interaction with One/Two Step Smaller weapons? Even if those would be Spinal Weapons
5) reduces them to +900%/*10
b) it does not
6) Can the Anatolian create a second Grey Knight lineage from his new body?
6) he could
does not see the need
the first one is doing fine
2) Could he create a Trueborn analogue upgrade package?
2) he probebly could
3) GK question: But like most things doesn't have time and doesn't have need since chaos isn't the most pressing concern right now.
3) yep
7) Is healing Zahhak taking Isha's full attention right now, or is that more something she just needs to poke every now and then while she does other things?
7) takes up around a third of her time
8) Are "Skaven" and "Great Horned Rat" actual in-universe names used to describe those entities at some point?
8) Yes
some of the ancint histories of the Khoswe still remember those names
but their normal taes refuse to use them
9) Are diamonds their own truemat, or lumped into gemstones?
9) lumped into gemstones
10) Is the Anatolian trying to learn High Magic?
10) no
1) Lack of time as opposed to lack of interest? High magic feels like the sort of thing everyone who gets advanced enough would want to learn eventually for the sheer utility if nothing else, unless they are absurdly specialised or entirely incompatible.
1) pretty much
1) For the sirens: IIRC they don't derive any benefit from eating souls normally, are there ways to do that and if so does it automatically fall into the realms of darkest magic?
1) they are and yes
2) Are enough demons eventually poisonous to a siren?
2) in quick sucession yes
over time they digest them
4) Are Anatolian's Transcends relevant towards the Blackstone Fortress 2.0 Project?
4) one of them is
1) one of them is: learning, cause even if it isn't his area of speciality I'm sure you can apply principles from one to another.
1) yeah
2) ...OK this might be a bit of an offer, but IIRC one of the seals on the sword requires a living Necrontyr, and it's super strong as long as the chance exists one could live again. Does the world have Necrontyr DNA?
2) something does, not the word but something
1) Should we be concerned that nobody knows who or what that is? Unless its Trazyn 😛
1) maybe
3) How fucked would we be if the dragon was swapped with an OO? Say when emps died.
3) it depends on from when
but think about fighting against the krork
and Avernus
but buffed
4) Roughly when will the next crop of superweapons like the Blackstone Fortress 2.0 Project, start getting deployed on the Dragon Front? Did you start a timer or something after the last superweapon exchange with the Void Dragon? Or are these projects tracked individually?
4) tarced seperatly
1) Does that mean that the Dragon War may well be won by way of either side getting a random nat 100 on one of the research rolls for these superweapons?
1) would need to explode
a nat 100 could be decisive, but not a silver bullet
not by itself
2) Out of curiosity how long would Ribbit's lighthouse last without the geomantic principles used for permanence?
2) without external pressure in the current warp?
decades
if one of the five tried cracking it?
weeks
1) So is it something about true geomancy that tells them to fuck off/just makes it practically immune to their nonsense as chaosy beings? Or damage.
1) more makes it way harder to damage
2) oh...I think I'm starting to realise why fights with true geomancy get nasty. I take it that Ka can destroy true geomancy stuff, better than almost anything else, but because its permanent things start getting...weird.
2) yeah Ka can
doing so has an impact
you didnt think it was just negative emotions that turned the Sea of Souls into the Warp did you?
1) Nope, way too big and too permanent of a change for that. I assume that vice versa true geomancy has some weird effects on Ka too. Cause they're just...not meant to interact like this.
1) more it can hold up against Ka far more then any other Sa construct
2) Did the boost to Warp powers in the Materium from the Great Ritual benefit Chaos or the Sane more?
a) If Chaos, how much Psychic evolution is necessary before humans edge them out?
2)probebly chaos
a)NA
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Humanity will probably be very sad that sol no longer exists, I wonder if eldar could restore it with the favor for rescuing isha
- Location
- Elsewhere
[X] Plan Shard's Okay Force Distribution
[X] Plan Shard's Okay Force Distribution
Is there a reason we are sending Light Aggressor Corps to Tankor III when they are discouraged there?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Oversight. Fixed. Thanks for catching.
HanEmpire
Delicious
[X] Plan Shard's Okay Force Distribution
@Durin:
1) how did the Silver Tide react to the tale of the Men of Iron and the Cybernetic Revolt, and the resulting cargo cult bigotry against synths?
2) has the example of the Silver Tide being eternally loyal to their creators affected Mechanicus theological debates at all?
3) would Nurma having a Silver Tide friend have eventually let us weigh in on Mechanicus debates on the nature of the STC?
@Durin:
1) how did the Silver Tide react to the tale of the Men of Iron and the Cybernetic Revolt, and the resulting cargo cult bigotry against synths?
2) has the example of the Silver Tide being eternally loyal to their creators affected Mechanicus theological debates at all?
3) would Nurma having a Silver Tide friend have eventually let us weigh in on Mechanicus debates on the nature of the STC?
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1) sad but not too effected
they dont really care about humans
2) not really
3) no
- Location
- madison
[X] Plan Shard's Okay Force Distribution
looked through it, the only idea i had to offer was moving some psykers from the 2nd Battle of Caridian to swap with another force since they are expecting psyker focus. However, shard instead took marine killers to counter the expected counter. Which is is at least as effective, and still lets us lean on our psykers per our doctrine. maybe pull one riskjager corpse off of Caridianto help the Zortheon Uprising?
looked through it, the only idea i had to offer was moving some psykers from the 2nd Battle of Caridian to swap with another force since they are expecting psyker focus. However, shard instead took marine killers to counter the expected counter. Which is is at least as effective, and still lets us lean on our psykers per our doctrine. maybe pull one riskjager corpse off of Caridianto help the Zortheon Uprising?
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
The Zortheon Uprising is alas maxed out. Adding a Riksjaeger requires removing a Battle Psyker Corps or Helguard Infiltration Corps.
School's Out Forever
- Location
- madison
School's Out Forever
Alarm lights slowly strobed, as a vox message commanding all students to seek safety repeated on loop. Something was afoot in the magical Scrofashroom, one of the three great Academies of Zirdium Prime, and Harald Potstorm was going to get to the bottom of it.
"Shouldn't we be heading to the shelters, Harald?" Harmony was as ever nervously clinging to petty rules, annoying but fitting for one of such low birth.
"Ah, don't be a wet blanket, Har, when has Harald ever steered us wrong?" Rinald of House Weselton as always put his faith in Harald, and had ever since the pair of them had slain his treacherous older brother. The arrogant son of Weselton had dared question Harald's claim to the Potstorm authority, simply because he had been raised in hiding among the slaves in the wake of his family's death.
"The whole place has gone on lockdown! It wasn't this bad even when that serpent was hunting in the halls." Harmony rather impudently pointed out.
"And we were able to slay that abomination as mere second years!" Harald smiled. "We've grown so much in the years since." He let the twisted mark on his forehead glow, the trapped soul fragment of the Chaos sorcerer within straining to break free.
Harmony said nothing, her mouth drawing into a tight line. She may have been brilliant enough to earn her way into Scrofashroom with only a Zeta's power and chattel for parents, but she still had the heart of a slave.
"If you're worried about running into the hall monitors, don't be, they don't even know about these passages," Rinald reassured her. Before they could get into yet another argument whether the staff was truly ignorant or merely pretending, the debate was cut off as sound itself seemed to be dampened. The three of them exchanged looks, before Harald pulled out his vanishing cloak, enshrouding them all in holy shadow.
The three of them crept forward, gazing through the inset one way mirror in the secret passage's door. The room beyond was bathed in an unholy green light, the result of some blasphemous ritual being carried out by a single heretic witch. Around them, four power armoured heretics had taken up defensive positions.
"What are they doing?"
"I think I've heard of this," Harmony whispered, reluctant to reveal the depths of her forbidden knowledge. "Some kind of perverse ritual that can be done by a single heretic, yet strikes with the force of a full choir. We need to tell someone."
"No," Harald spoke with conviction. He had looked at the souls of his foes, and found them wanting. These fools were barely wizards, the strongest of them was an Epsilon at most. "They are weak, and their backs are to us. We can deal with them ourselves."
"Damn right." Rinald sounded eager for combat and glory.
"Are you mad?" Harmony of course was not. "Those heretics are in power armour, enchanted power armour," she urgently whispered. "They don't give that out to any but their veterans!"
"You can help or not, but I'm going in and I doubt you'll get far without my cloak." It was improper to argue like this with a subordinate, but her skill had earned her some small measure of leeway.
The matter settled, they stole into the room, the hidden passage flicking from a solid wall to the illusion of one over a door for a moment as they strode forth. Each preparing for battle in their own way. Harald charged his force staff, Rinald silently drew his golden blades, and Harmony pulled a small obsidian symbol from her robes. Against an unaware caster they would be more than enough, and the chaos of a misfiring ritual would serve them well in dealing with the foul witch's foolish guards.
The heretics were vigilant, but facing the wrong way, and Harald's cloak of shadows was near perfect. Harald smiled; his victory was going to be almost too easy. Then, it all went wrong. Rinald whirled blades glowing with sacred power, barely stopping a blow one of the power armored invaders had launched at what must have been empty air. The cloak of shadows unwove around them and the trio now stood exposed.
Power surged as Rinald became a whirlwind of golden blades, each strike met with the crackling plasma blade of his foe, Harmony dashed her symbol upon the ground, flooding the room with shadow, and Harald sprinted towards the casting sorcerer.
An act of unholy will saw the shadows pushed back, revealing a heretic in his path. Harald's power surged, drawing deeply upon the enslaved soul fragment bound to his scar as he fell back upon his signature technique. His foe was fast, but his will was faster still.
"Exarmare!"
His foe jerked as weapons erupted away from them, knives, grenades, strange heretical artifacts, but the weapon they'd dare raise against their better flew into his outstretched hand. He'd barely felt its reassuring weight in his hand when the power armored heretic exploded into motion, shooting towards him like a bullet. With a grin he poured his power into the unfamiliar weapon, commanding it to fire.
NO
The sheer strength of the rejection threw his powers out of his control, sending them running wild. Power raw and unrefined exploded out in five perfect columns of crackling gold lightning that passed harmlessly over Harald. The gun went totally dead, and the charging intruder stumbled mere steps from him. With a righteous cry he brought his crackling force staff up in a desperate blow, striking the blank fishbowl helm of his foe, his psychic might shattering it like glass. His heart soared in triumph, until he saw his foe's face. She was oddly plain, with a few scars and short blond hair, but she looked at him with an expression that was somehow both intensely focused and barely interested. His instant of hesitation had been too long. With a bizarre wrenching motion, a shower of parts fell from her now dead armor, and she was moving again.
Harald's will became a pane of golden force, only for her to somehow juke to the left, moving with a dancer's grace despite the weight of her armor. He swung a textbook perfect skull split towards her exposed face, but she tilted like a stumbling drunk and his blow sheared through her pauldron. And now she was inside his reach and her fist filled his world.
Harald was on the ground, pain radiating from his face. Rinald's advice came to him in a flash; if you don't remember how you got there, move. He hurled himself to the side just as something heavy came down, shattering the tiles where his head had been. He scrambled forward on his hands and knees, desperately trying to stand as he heard heavy footsteps behind him. With a desperate act of will he filled his hands with holy molten gold, before commanding himself to face the foe.
Power forced him up, and brutally twisted him around, the might of the Emperor demanding his servants face the enemy standing and head on. The brutal force of it strained his bones, and lent his desperate throw far more power than he could have otherwise managed. The Emperor guided his aim, and the burning gold flew toward the heretic's face. It was only the blind luck of her already having her arm up that let her block his holy barrage, the gold washing over her armored gauntlet, but the sizzle of cooking fat and smell of burnt flesh indicated that some of his attack had struck true. More importantly, for an instant her own gauntlet had obscured her view. Harald reached out with his hand and will for the force staff he'd dropped, the staff that was now directly behind his attacker.
His staff flew true, burning with holy light, Scrofashroom itself empowering him to strike down the heretic within its hollowed halls. With an explosion of crimson and gold the head of his staff burst through her gut, with only yet another impossible last minute shift sparing her spine. No matter, he would have to but touch it to cook her from the inside out!
He shot forward, the Emperor speeding his steps, his hand reaching for the golden aquila to claim victory, only for it to suddenly vanish from sight. Receding into the bloody darkness with a squelch and a scream of effort, as the invader pulled it out of her back, once more dragging it through her own guts. Harald glanced up at his foe's face. Her once placid face was now marred by specks of gold, and a weeping bloody mess where her right eye once was. In her remaining eye he saw a flash of utter hate. Her free hand, the one covered in now solidified gold, swung at his face. He willed the gold to be still, and her fist froze mid blow, before becoming leverage for her to throw herself towards him, head first. Her face filled his vision and he saw a faint smile before she slammed into his forehead, directly on the single binding of the soul fragment empowering him. The warding glyph flared and exploded into life, erupting into a wave of force.
Yet again, Harald was sent tumbling backwards, though this time he was at least facing his foe. She seemed to have gotten the worst of it, slumped in her armor with her neck at an awkward angle. For a moment he dared hope she was dead, before her neck slowly strained, as the blood pouring from her gut slowed to a wet trickle. She stared at him intensely with her remaining eye, but her breath was labored and her gaze ever so slightly wavered. In her left hand, Harald saw that she was clutching his staff.
"How dare you! That's mine!"
She smiled. "Then come and get it."
"No, you're going to give it back."
The fool had given him a few seconds, more than long enough to complete his working, casting his faith and soul against her feeble mind.
He was not in the familiar halls of Scrofashroom, and he was no longer Harald Potstorm student of sorcery. He was as he truly was, a radiant golden soul leading the charge against a heretic fortress. Before him was the mind of his foe, an ancient fortress wrought of wood. With a yell he charged forth, conjuring an army of ideas behind him. Holy axes met heretical wood and bit deep, revealing the faint green of young and untested timber beneath a veneer of strength. His foe was so unused to mental combat she could not even strike back! Merely endure as he ground her defenses to nothing. Gold met wood and the assault pressed on.
Golden copies of his friends appeared, acting as lieutenants for the final assault on the gate. Harmony erecting a barrier against trickery and traps, while Rinald became a whirling golden buzzsaw. With a final eruption of splinters the gates collapsed, and Harald strode through triumphantly, and then he was alone. He could hear the distant crash of timber and panicked cries of his legion, but he was alone. Trees so tall their peaks vanished into mists stretched away in every direction, while strange cries filled the darkness. He called for his constructs, his legion, his comrades, and nothing. They were not here, for in this place He Was Alone.
This was not a true forest, merely a mental trap. The way out was the one he picked, and so Harald strode forth, refusing to let fear shake him. Roots tore at his footing, the feel of mocking jests and doubt, cries forged from surprise and shock deafened his ears, and the fog of creeping dread coated him, asking with his own voice what such defenses meant. The forest was strengthened with memory, and just how much memory did his foe have?
A beast summoned by his own fear pounced. He struck at it but its flesh was wood hardened by tribulation. It reached him and sunk fangs made of revelation into his flesh, a memory.
The Warp shook as something happened, something wrong and galaxy shaking. She clung tight to her mother's legs as the shelter shook without moving. Her mother reassured her even as she failed to hide her own fear. There was a flash of Gold, so unlike the kind saint she'd known, and then a new voice, a new monster. It called her a witch and demanded she kneel to the master of mankind.
Harald gasped as he came out of the memory. The feeling of violation shuddering through him as he recovered from being forced into such wrong ways of thinking. But he could not turn away from the truth. This insect, this heretic, had seen the rebirth of the Emperor with her own witchsight. She was a minor psyker, barely better than a blunt! And yet, and yet she was in a sense older than his god. The implications that she was that old, that she had survived for so long, did not bear thinking about.
He forced his fear down, but it was too late. The forest around him smelled blood, and it was hungry. He ran back the way he'd come, back to reality where he might have a chance. At his heels slavering beasts rose from the ground, things of roots and old pain, above him flew mocking birds feathered in shame, swooping at him with talons of inadequacy and cowardice. Fear and doubt flowed into him like poison from a serpent's bite, and the path ahead stretched into infinity even as a sea of roots rose to drown him in despair. He heard a faint chuckle as something massive and unseen moved in for the kill and then-
Pain, honest concrete physical pain exploded in his gut. For a moment he thought it was yet another layer of mental deception, for he stood once more in a forest. But this one was new, not even yet born. Trees and vines were still growing, still impossibly forcing their way towards a familiar ceiling, cracking open the floor of Scrofashroom. Then the branch that had struck him wound up and drove itself into his gut again. He staggered back, reaching with his will for his staff and the foe that held it, only to see it torn from her grasp by a lashing vine as she retreated into the shadows, warding away the murderous greenery from her breached armor.
Once more his staff flew to his hand at his Command, just in time to sever a thick branch as it swung at his head. He could not muster his will for a shield, instead using his force staff like a machete to cut away the murderous plants around him. This proved to be a mistake, as with a wooden creak a massive willow reared up, apparently affronted by his damage to its roots. Whatever it had been focused on, now it was focused solely on him.
Branches came in from every angle as the enraged tree launched its assault. Harald fled, swinging his crackling staff with wild abandon at branches from its trunk. A vine snaked around his foot, sending him to the ground, the branches trailing a passing trunk scraping him as a blow flew overhead. The creaking of wood drew his attention, showing the vast trunk of the twisted willow bunching up for a strike. With a cry he forced his will once more into a shield, the heretical tree shattering itself against it.
"Harald! Over here!" Harmony was but a few feet away! A swirling portal of shadow was behind her, and Rinald laid at her feet, his eyes glassy and his torso soaked in blood. "It won't stay open long!"
He rose to his feet, just as he turned to go, he felt something. Psykers, dozens, maybe hundreds, and they were getting closer, emerging from the mad forest like mutants from the underhive. Among them was one so much stronger than the rest, one emerging mere strides from him, one who he could just barely tell was facing the wrong way.
No, NO! He would not flee in disgrace like a coward! Not when the Emperor had given him a chance at redemption. He turned his back on safety and towards the enemies of mankind, striving forward, knowing beyond doubt that the Emperor was with him. Providence guided his steps. A shadow pulled itself from the tree before him, becoming more real as he broke into a charge. He poured all he had into his staff and more, the very soul fragment that had empowered him burned, consumed in an instant for this holy task. His ancient force staff burst into holy flames so intense they bleached out all other color with their cleansing golden light. A power armored figure appeared, its back to him and his staff dove towards its head, before stopping dead inches from it.
The new foe stepped out of the shadows and off of the ground. Almost lazily, they floated to face him, a rapier in one hand and a crackling purple nimbus in the other. Her gaze fell upon him, crushing him in place. The flames on his staff blew out like a candle in a hurricane, taking the molten ruin of his weapon with them. Her helm was intact yet he could feel her gaze, her inhuman eyes studying him, Her gaze was purple and as heavy as worlds. Harald tried to speak, to pray to rally, to do anyth
@Durin an omake for last turn, thanks to @Shard and @StormySky for helping edit it.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
vote locked
The next part of the quest will be the naval update, where various ship and fleet designers can present their ships, the more detail the better, and argue why they should be used
you can inlcue both new designs and refits of existing designs
The next part of the quest will be the naval update, where various ship and fleet designers can present their ships, the more detail the better, and argue why they should be used
you can inlcue both new designs and refits of existing designs
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I have to disagree.
With how complex and optimised the design process has become one look at the designer has made it clear to me that I would not be able to design a viable ship in the alotted time.My prediction is that the discussion will mainly drift onto discord after the majority of hobby designs have been dismanteled for their very real flaws.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
fate can only do so much vs recklessness
canon
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
*Deep Breath*
Okay, I've been preparing this sheet for the last couple of turns. This is an absolutely simplified fleet design with a minimum of ship designs. Only ship designs that have been thoroughly tested and evaluated are allowed entry.
Shard's New Fleet Design Proposal
Details:
Okay, I've been preparing this sheet for the last couple of turns. This is an absolutely simplified fleet design with a minimum of ship designs. Only ship designs that have been thoroughly tested and evaluated are allowed entry.
Shard's New Fleet Design Proposal
Details:
Standard Warp Fleet
(6 Generalist, 4 Harass, 1 All-Purpose)
Dust (All-Purpose Screen Carrier)
This is probably the ship that has had the most dramatic battles in ship design. Oh my gods, it has been put up in simulated fights against everything. Crosswinds/Hunters, designed to specifically to counter it's ACTORP strategy. The Dust won. It has been put up against a whole ton of different variants of Golems and Zephyrs, including even having it be outnumbered to simulate cost differences. The Dust won. It has been put up against a light cruiser version. The Escort version won. This is probably the most refined design possible that SDB has ever made.
(Yes, even after considering that it can run out of Attack Craft in those engagements. The simulations were extremely intense.)
It's a monstrosity. It's a true multipurpose Escort. It completely slaughters in all simulated fights. There are ways to beat the Dust in designing, but you make major compromises and you only get a slight edge for them. As for how it got to become the monstrosity it is, it's not just runes - It's competing with designs that have runes. Instead it turns out that Tranth upgrading Torpedoes have turned Escort Torpedoes into a lethal joke weapon when combined with bombers. Seriously everything else either dies or can only manage a slight edge at best when fighting with this Speed 9 Escort monstrosity.
I like to imagine that this ship is orb-shaped, to contrast with all the cylindrical ships. It's probably mostly hollow space (storing attack craft and torpedoes) and designed exactly to fit into a Dock (something like 0.8km long, 0.24 km^3 volume).
Promethean-G (Spinal Cruiser)
We designed this already; The sheet version uses more runes to improve the durability more after carefully analyzing Rune-Cost-Efficiency.
Promethean-H (Spinal Harass Cruiser)
This is basically the Promethean but with a bunch of extremely expensive runes (25% more expensive than the -G version) to let it hit Speed 10 and thus harass enemy fleets with a spinal weapon. You can refit a Promethean-G to a Promethean-H in extremis as they're really the same ship. (The other way around wastes a lot of resources.)
Storm (Carrier Harass Cruiser)
This is a harass cruiser designed to complement the Dust as well as provide enough hangers for the fleet. It's basically a replacement for the Cloud. It also has a single unit of Waitwoods, enabling it to replaced the Torch class - I argue that this is on net a big benefit, because although the Storm class is overkill compared to the Torch class, the Storm is far more useful in combat and also has infinite endurance. This means it can do the Torch's job way better, without an escort, and in the event of war, is a very good ship still. It's a multipurpose ship with no notable weaknesses.
It uses an as-yet unproven-to-exist Carrier PA.
Bruiser (Gunboat Battleship)
This is basically the replacement for the Gridarvol-R. It's more cost-effective in every metric measurable. More durable, more firepower, etc. There's not much to say, it's a very strong workhorse design without any notable weaknesses. Pretty Krorkian.
Thunderspark (Harass Pocket Battleship)
If you will examine the design more closely, you will notice it uses a Light Cruiser Chassis. Yet it's in the Pocket Battleship weightclass! Well this is the first non-stealth Psyship. It uses extensive bleeding edge DAOT parts, shitton of runes, and a Veteran Beta Primaris to let a tiny light cruiser fight at the level of a Pocket Battleship. While harassing, too! Overall our analysis suggests that it has the capabilities of about 1/2 of a Pocket Battleship with about 1/3 the cost (internal calculations include the approximate Cr-Cost of a psyker).
This ship is stated as Speed 10, but can hit Speed 11 or higher with some sacrifices (minor for S11, moderate for S12, painful for S13).
Twister-A (Harass Sniper)
Basically the Twister but with a ton more stats and also Speed 10.
Surtr (Tachyon Sniper)
Twister but Speed 6 and with Tachyon Sensors. I took this design from Enerael and optimized it.
Deus II (The SDR at last)
The ultimate ship in our lineup. Crazy firepower and durability. Two minor variants, one with UDB and one without. The one without UDB (my preferred) has about 8% less durability (~15.3k HP+Shields) but saves like 60% of our rapidly depleting UD stockpile. The one with UDB has 8% more durability (~16.7 HP+Shields), but uses more UDB.
Stealth
Prowler (Stealth Scout Ship)
I haven't really statted it out, but the cost of +2 stealth to all prowlers is very negligible (1~3%). +1.5 Speed to all Prowlers is less negligible (10~30% cost) but doable. This would be a very good boon for our stealth fleet. Depends a lot on whether the runes still work if you're chilling in space for a year or two at a time though. Rune of Power would double the relevant costs.
Gloom (Stealth 'Screen' Psyship)
This ship can basically replace the non-specialist portion of the Stealth Fleet. It's a psyship, requiring a Veteran Beta Primaris, but it really invalidates the need to have a Stealth Screen Fleet. Or a Stealth Capital Fleet, for that matter. It's fast, it's stealthy, it can vaporize one of our own cruisers in a round. It's also ridiculously tough, so it's actually extremely good in the event that we need it fighting in our regular fleet.
Quicksand (Stealth IA Gunboat)
TBH not a huge fan of this design, but it does output damage even faster than the Gloom which is sometimes needed. It also outputs that damage very fast if it goes into our regular fleet in wartime, so it gets in on multi-usefulness.
Mirum (Stealth Spacemine Battleship)
I'm not aware of any ship that can survive being near a Mirum. Note that there isn't any need to build more Mirums; We have a lot of Boulders that can be refit into Mirums who are honestly just a lot more useful. Has better speed, and uses a few Protomatter projector so firepower is better and it even has a slight amount of good firepower at range to kill people who somehow get away.
Specialists
Meteor (Corvette Descent)
This is basically the Kraken descent with more HP+Shields and renamed (to avoid confusion with Void Kraken). With 21 HP+Shields, it actually has better than coinflip chances of tanking the hidden DR batteries that kill so many Descents. More firepower, etc, etc. Nothing new.
Skyfall (Bombardment Cannon Light Cruiser)
This thing has a Bombardment Cannon firepower output of 250. Despite not being designed for naval combat it can actually contribute meaningfully to them. The important thing is that building Skyfalls is more cost effective than building Starfalls.
Garden (Logistics Cruiser)
We designed this already. No changes needed.
Tephra II
The Human Ghostship. Speed 11 (Ghostships are Speed 8). Enough speed to reach every other ship, enough firepower to slag basically everything in it's weightclass or below. This is one of the few ships I'd be fine deploying to the Dragonfront. It's a monstrosity.
Siegebreaker II
Applying more advanced technology and runes to the Siegebreaker II has resulted in more than triple the firepower compared to the original. It's.. uh.. Okay, this thing can take out multiple of our own BB stations (when it's supposed to be the other way around). Bring this into range of an enemy station and it turns to slag. Even regular fleets that outmaneuver this thing's frontal armored prow (it's main weakness is that it's slow) will take horrific casualties killing one.
Orbital Defences
Airstrip (Screen Supercarrier)
No real changes, just a bit of runes to improve durability.
Trench (Generalist Cruiser)
It has reserves for Airstrips, and a spinal weapon, and a warp reactor to power PA (effects of PA: Fortress not included here, they might influence design decisions but mostly the weapons loadout only.)
Bunker (BB Station)
Basically a gunboat defence station, nothing much to say.
Citadel (DR Station)
Even more gunboat.
Heaven (SDR Station)
The most gunboaty station of them all.
Defence Fleet
N/A
No Defence Fleet. There's none which are noticeable more effective than a warp ship design. With Runes and superior designing they just suck so much. Systems shouldn't bother building defense fleets anyway, there's not a single system in the Trust that can stand alone against an outside attack anyway. If you need an in-system fleet, just build a regular warp ship and pay the tithe to the Trust to have your own fleet, it's way more effective that way. Runes stronk. Before runes the best ship design advice was along the lines of 'Promethean but rip out the warp drive', now that advice doesn't even apply.
If the Promethean ship design didn't exist it might have been possible to make an effective Warp Reactor Cruiser Defence Ship, but it exists so the scope of effective defense ships is nil. I'm against the concept anyway.
Summary
During our extensive simulations, we concluded that running out of attack craft isn't actually a disaster in fleet combat. This is because in a battle where you run out of attack craft, your ship is usually so badly damaged you need to be repaired pronto and you need to be leaving the battlefield ASAP. Essentially you tend to lose attack craft at about the rate at which you lose ships.
Runes OP for the Trust. For other powers the mass use of runes would 2x+ the costs making it not really worth it, for the Trust it's only 10~30% cost increases for like 2x goodness.
Global Fleet Changes:
All External Torpedo Launchers should use Enchanted Rune of Fire. I've calculated that this is the most optimum level of runic enchantment for them. More is cost-ineffective, less is under-runing. This is very elegant since we can just edit the stats of External Torpedoes directly. (Or since all torpedoes are being E-RoF'ed, edit the stats of torpedoes directly.)
Shipyards:
Huge Shipyards need to be merged into Gargantuans as much as possible. Battleships were last calculated at being 1.57x the value of a Pocket Battleship, cost efficiency wise w.r.t Shipyard Production. Even moreso, like 2x+ in the context of other limiters like our rapidly dissapearing piles of Ultra-Dense Alloys that Perturabo gifted us so long ago*
*Unfortunately raiding Perturabo and destroying his fleets for more UDA doesn't seem viable. It's a logistics thing, combat wise I'm pretty sure we'd come out ahead on net.
There isn't a PBB design I want us to build. The Psychic Cannon Gridarvol is fine, but with the UD crisis, PBBs are kind of no good because they guzzle UD super fast. Building more Prometheans has to be seriously considered as there's a good chance it's more optimal than Grid-Rs (13~15 PRs vs 1x G-R). Prometheans are good enough ships that you can easily justify it.
Scrapping/Refits:
Our Hurricanes and Earthquakes need to be scrapped pronto, to retrieve the UDB and accelerate our production of the Deus II (or complete a bunch of Twisters/Surtrs, either is fine). They're just not very good ships and refitting them costs a lot of CP, a lot of math, inverted helix has done them.
I have not seriously analyzed the cost-benefit on refitting/scrapping/donating the lighter ships. Screen ships can probably be refit minimally. Other ships will probably be donated. Over a period of time obviously, to avoid a vulnerability period.
Other:
I have probably forgotten a bunch of stuff in all of this, the discussions in the Ship Design Thread on Discord was long, extensive, and heated. I've tried to pare down the fleet design to the most effective designs possible and eliminating everything else.
(6 Generalist, 4 Harass, 1 All-Purpose)
Dust (All-Purpose Screen Carrier)
This is probably the ship that has had the most dramatic battles in ship design. Oh my gods, it has been put up in simulated fights against everything. Crosswinds/Hunters, designed to specifically to counter it's ACTORP strategy. The Dust won. It has been put up against a whole ton of different variants of Golems and Zephyrs, including even having it be outnumbered to simulate cost differences. The Dust won. It has been put up against a light cruiser version. The Escort version won. This is probably the most refined design possible that SDB has ever made.
(Yes, even after considering that it can run out of Attack Craft in those engagements. The simulations were extremely intense.)
It's a monstrosity. It's a true multipurpose Escort. It completely slaughters in all simulated fights. There are ways to beat the Dust in designing, but you make major compromises and you only get a slight edge for them. As for how it got to become the monstrosity it is, it's not just runes - It's competing with designs that have runes. Instead it turns out that Tranth upgrading Torpedoes have turned Escort Torpedoes into a lethal joke weapon when combined with bombers. Seriously everything else either dies or can only manage a slight edge at best when fighting with this Speed 9 Escort monstrosity.
I like to imagine that this ship is orb-shaped, to contrast with all the cylindrical ships. It's probably mostly hollow space (storing attack craft and torpedoes) and designed exactly to fit into a Dock (something like 0.8km long, 0.24 km^3 volume).
Promethean-G (Spinal Cruiser)
We designed this already; The sheet version uses more runes to improve the durability more after carefully analyzing Rune-Cost-Efficiency.
Promethean-H (Spinal Harass Cruiser)
This is basically the Promethean but with a bunch of extremely expensive runes (25% more expensive than the -G version) to let it hit Speed 10 and thus harass enemy fleets with a spinal weapon. You can refit a Promethean-G to a Promethean-H in extremis as they're really the same ship. (The other way around wastes a lot of resources.)
Storm (Carrier Harass Cruiser)
This is a harass cruiser designed to complement the Dust as well as provide enough hangers for the fleet. It's basically a replacement for the Cloud. It also has a single unit of Waitwoods, enabling it to replaced the Torch class - I argue that this is on net a big benefit, because although the Storm class is overkill compared to the Torch class, the Storm is far more useful in combat and also has infinite endurance. This means it can do the Torch's job way better, without an escort, and in the event of war, is a very good ship still. It's a multipurpose ship with no notable weaknesses.
It uses an as-yet unproven-to-exist Carrier PA.
Bruiser (Gunboat Battleship)
This is basically the replacement for the Gridarvol-R. It's more cost-effective in every metric measurable. More durable, more firepower, etc. There's not much to say, it's a very strong workhorse design without any notable weaknesses. Pretty Krorkian.
Thunderspark (Harass Pocket Battleship)
If you will examine the design more closely, you will notice it uses a Light Cruiser Chassis. Yet it's in the Pocket Battleship weightclass! Well this is the first non-stealth Psyship. It uses extensive bleeding edge DAOT parts, shitton of runes, and a Veteran Beta Primaris to let a tiny light cruiser fight at the level of a Pocket Battleship. While harassing, too! Overall our analysis suggests that it has the capabilities of about 1/2 of a Pocket Battleship with about 1/3 the cost (internal calculations include the approximate Cr-Cost of a psyker).
This ship is stated as Speed 10, but can hit Speed 11 or higher with some sacrifices (minor for S11, moderate for S12, painful for S13).
Twister-A (Harass Sniper)
Basically the Twister but with a ton more stats and also Speed 10.
Surtr (Tachyon Sniper)
Twister but Speed 6 and with Tachyon Sensors. I took this design from Enerael and optimized it.
Deus II (The SDR at last)
The ultimate ship in our lineup. Crazy firepower and durability. Two minor variants, one with UDB and one without. The one without UDB (my preferred) has about 8% less durability (~15.3k HP+Shields) but saves like 60% of our rapidly depleting UD stockpile. The one with UDB has 8% more durability (~16.7 HP+Shields), but uses more UDB.
Stealth
Prowler (Stealth Scout Ship)
I haven't really statted it out, but the cost of +2 stealth to all prowlers is very negligible (1~3%). +1.5 Speed to all Prowlers is less negligible (10~30% cost) but doable. This would be a very good boon for our stealth fleet. Depends a lot on whether the runes still work if you're chilling in space for a year or two at a time though. Rune of Power would double the relevant costs.
Gloom (Stealth 'Screen' Psyship)
This ship can basically replace the non-specialist portion of the Stealth Fleet. It's a psyship, requiring a Veteran Beta Primaris, but it really invalidates the need to have a Stealth Screen Fleet. Or a Stealth Capital Fleet, for that matter. It's fast, it's stealthy, it can vaporize one of our own cruisers in a round. It's also ridiculously tough, so it's actually extremely good in the event that we need it fighting in our regular fleet.
Quicksand (Stealth IA Gunboat)
TBH not a huge fan of this design, but it does output damage even faster than the Gloom which is sometimes needed. It also outputs that damage very fast if it goes into our regular fleet in wartime, so it gets in on multi-usefulness.
Mirum (Stealth Spacemine Battleship)
I'm not aware of any ship that can survive being near a Mirum. Note that there isn't any need to build more Mirums; We have a lot of Boulders that can be refit into Mirums who are honestly just a lot more useful. Has better speed, and uses a few Protomatter projector so firepower is better and it even has a slight amount of good firepower at range to kill people who somehow get away.
Specialists
Meteor (Corvette Descent)
This is basically the Kraken descent with more HP+Shields and renamed (to avoid confusion with Void Kraken). With 21 HP+Shields, it actually has better than coinflip chances of tanking the hidden DR batteries that kill so many Descents. More firepower, etc, etc. Nothing new.
Skyfall (Bombardment Cannon Light Cruiser)
This thing has a Bombardment Cannon firepower output of 250. Despite not being designed for naval combat it can actually contribute meaningfully to them. The important thing is that building Skyfalls is more cost effective than building Starfalls.
Garden (Logistics Cruiser)
We designed this already. No changes needed.
Tephra II
The Human Ghostship. Speed 11 (Ghostships are Speed 8). Enough speed to reach every other ship, enough firepower to slag basically everything in it's weightclass or below. This is one of the few ships I'd be fine deploying to the Dragonfront. It's a monstrosity.
Siegebreaker II
Applying more advanced technology and runes to the Siegebreaker II has resulted in more than triple the firepower compared to the original. It's.. uh.. Okay, this thing can take out multiple of our own BB stations (when it's supposed to be the other way around). Bring this into range of an enemy station and it turns to slag. Even regular fleets that outmaneuver this thing's frontal armored prow (it's main weakness is that it's slow) will take horrific casualties killing one.
Orbital Defences
Airstrip (Screen Supercarrier)
No real changes, just a bit of runes to improve durability.
Trench (Generalist Cruiser)
It has reserves for Airstrips, and a spinal weapon, and a warp reactor to power PA (effects of PA: Fortress not included here, they might influence design decisions but mostly the weapons loadout only.)
Bunker (BB Station)
Basically a gunboat defence station, nothing much to say.
Citadel (DR Station)
Even more gunboat.
Heaven (SDR Station)
The most gunboaty station of them all.
Defence Fleet
N/A
No Defence Fleet. There's none which are noticeable more effective than a warp ship design. With Runes and superior designing they just suck so much. Systems shouldn't bother building defense fleets anyway, there's not a single system in the Trust that can stand alone against an outside attack anyway. If you need an in-system fleet, just build a regular warp ship and pay the tithe to the Trust to have your own fleet, it's way more effective that way. Runes stronk. Before runes the best ship design advice was along the lines of 'Promethean but rip out the warp drive', now that advice doesn't even apply.
If the Promethean ship design didn't exist it might have been possible to make an effective Warp Reactor Cruiser Defence Ship, but it exists so the scope of effective defense ships is nil. I'm against the concept anyway.
Summary
During our extensive simulations, we concluded that running out of attack craft isn't actually a disaster in fleet combat. This is because in a battle where you run out of attack craft, your ship is usually so badly damaged you need to be repaired pronto and you need to be leaving the battlefield ASAP. Essentially you tend to lose attack craft at about the rate at which you lose ships.
Runes OP for the Trust. For other powers the mass use of runes would 2x+ the costs making it not really worth it, for the Trust it's only 10~30% cost increases for like 2x goodness.
Global Fleet Changes:
All External Torpedo Launchers should use Enchanted Rune of Fire. I've calculated that this is the most optimum level of runic enchantment for them. More is cost-ineffective, less is under-runing. This is very elegant since we can just edit the stats of External Torpedoes directly. (Or since all torpedoes are being E-RoF'ed, edit the stats of torpedoes directly.)
Shipyards:
Huge Shipyards need to be merged into Gargantuans as much as possible. Battleships were last calculated at being 1.57x the value of a Pocket Battleship, cost efficiency wise w.r.t Shipyard Production. Even moreso, like 2x+ in the context of other limiters like our rapidly dissapearing piles of Ultra-Dense Alloys that Perturabo gifted us so long ago*
*Unfortunately raiding Perturabo and destroying his fleets for more UDA doesn't seem viable. It's a logistics thing, combat wise I'm pretty sure we'd come out ahead on net.
There isn't a PBB design I want us to build. The Psychic Cannon Gridarvol is fine, but with the UD crisis, PBBs are kind of no good because they guzzle UD super fast. Building more Prometheans has to be seriously considered as there's a good chance it's more optimal than Grid-Rs (13~15 PRs vs 1x G-R). Prometheans are good enough ships that you can easily justify it.
Scrapping/Refits:
Our Hurricanes and Earthquakes need to be scrapped pronto, to retrieve the UDB and accelerate our production of the Deus II (or complete a bunch of Twisters/Surtrs, either is fine). They're just not very good ships and refitting them costs a lot of CP, a lot of math, inverted helix has done them.
I have not seriously analyzed the cost-benefit on refitting/scrapping/donating the lighter ships. Screen ships can probably be refit minimally. Other ships will probably be donated. Over a period of time obviously, to avoid a vulnerability period.
Other:
I have probably forgotten a bunch of stuff in all of this, the discussions in the Ship Design Thread on Discord was long, extensive, and heated. I've tried to pare down the fleet design to the most effective designs possible and eliminating everything else.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
Imma be real, I was kinda rooting for the bad guys here. You did an excellent job at making these characters.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Our psyker researchers try to design one. If it doesn't work out* then they use a different PA, probably 'just be really tough'.
*It's not clear whether Psychic Architecture: Carrier is even possible or through what mechanism it works through.