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The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)

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Adhoc vote count started by Durin on Dec 13, 2024 at 8:48 PM, finished with 76 posts and 18 votes.
  • [X] Plan DaemonHunter T -1
    -[X] Military Support Level: independent Command
    --[X] There is a huge gap in the ability of worlds to deploy forces. Planets in the Core Sector with greater development and the influence of the Lighthouse can deploy a far greater proportion of their forces (and also absolute amount of forces) due to safety and superior economics. Setting the same standard across worlds would be inefficient.
    -[X] Military Support Target: Unchained
    --[X] Right now the various Ophelian forces are as weak as they can be, a fact which will very quickly change if the First-Damned has the time to get their house in order. Investing as heavily as possible as early as possible will have the greatest possible impact. The danger of Ophelia rebornis also much more severe - Should Ophelia be reborn proper, not just the Unchained but also Callamus would be tied down handling a disaster. Better to invest as much as possible to cull it before we see the Abomination acting intelligently.
    -[X] Demon Worlds: Two
    --[X] Two worlds will still provide us most of what we want, and focusing on less worlds means better outcomes since forces can be concentrated more plus weaker worlds selected.
    -[X] Chaos Polities: One
    -[X] Chaos Polities: Sslyth Concordat
    --[X] This is a polity of Slaanesh, who recently lost critical domains. They will likely have had to purge large parts of their military and leadership and be very disorganized, so we can take them out right now at a bargain price compared to doing it later.
    --[X] Their patron deity losing a third of their power, plus the massive reorganization that they will need to do (plus possibly having just gone through/going through a minor/major civil war) means extreme damage can be done for comparatively very little effort.
    -[X] Gylfaginning: Oppose
    -[X] Trade Levy: Remove
    --[X] The primary reasoning behind the Trade Levy, self-sufficiency and the cost of protecting merchant vessels, no longer holds given the dramatic advances in technology that have occurred. Primal Trade Vessels just as an example will gradually negate the cost and danger of relying on trade, and Trust space is far more secure these days.
    -[X] Lower Militia Standards: Write in argument
    --[X] Implement a two-tier militia system, with half keeping the current standards, while the other half (those not meeting health standards for guard recruitment, working in high productivity professions, etc) only training for 4 hours a week (so they are still not helpless/useless in genuine emergency/invasion, as well as preserving martial culture).
    --[X] The dangers of a ground invasion these days is simply much less, and our ability to respond to invasions also much greater (crazy warp travel speed & primal travel are the big ones here). The value of a greater economy to the military can't be understated.
    [X] Military Support Target: All- You are already planning to go with a bit of a scattershot approach to this, might as well have it happen on all levels.
    [X] Chaos Polities: Kingdom of Confusion- The Kingdom of Confusion owes its allegiance to the First Prince, and is liable to become a staging ground for his forces to attack you if any such attacks are planned. While the best defended of the possible targets, this risk makes it a high priority.
    [X] Gylfaginning: Support - Gylfaginning has the defences and industry to qualify, if only just.
    [X] Trade Levy: Keep- Encouraging a level of self-reliance will be useful in case the military situation changes.
    [X] Military Support Level: independent Command - Encouraging member worlds to provide their forces will boost connection between members and various allies, and increase the amount of military forces deployed without overly stressing any world's economy.
    [X] Demon Worlds: Two - Tripling your amount of Deva Worlds will allow you to trade with few limitations.
    [X] Chaos Polities: One - You should be able to take on a single polity at a time without needing to devote your full military might to the campaign.
    [X] Lower Militia Standards: Support- The reduction in the defences of many trust worlds should be more than offset by the boost to your economy.
    [X] Military Support Level: Use PDF
    [X] Military Support Target: Unchained
    [X] Demon Worlds: All of them
    [X] Chaos Polities: One
    [X] Chaos Polities: Kingdom of Confusion
    [X] Gylfaginning: Support
    [X] Trade Levy: Remove
    [X] Lower Militia Standards: Write in argument
    -[X] Rather than uniformly dropping militia standards, propose a downsizing instead. As our militia is basically never called upon to fight, its primary benefit is as a training pool for our higher level forces. Approximately 30% of the current militia will not meet health standards to progress to the guard anyway, so we will also exempt those people from militia service. We can also provide various exemptions for high productivity professions which are unlikely to ever be inducted into the PDF, with an aim of reducing the overall militia force by approximately half. This will allow us to retain most of the benefit of the militia while halving the cost.
    [X] Military Support Level: Use PDF - While it will put some strain on many worlds to support it, a partial mustering of the PDF will massively boost the Imperial Trust's ability to support its allies.
    [X] Demon Worlds: All of them - While it will stretch your elites, taking every demon world will give you the ability to rapidly transfer armies or trade goods to the Un chained or other powers connected to the deva world network.
    [X] Chaos Polities: Two - Attacking two chaotic polities that are each larger than you and at the end of a long logistic chain will require pretty much everything that you have, but will allow you to rapidly clear your region of potential threats
    [X] Chaos Polities: Sslyth Concordat- The Sslyth Concordat is the closest of the Chaos Polities to the Imperial Trust and the smallest of them. This makes it a far easier target then the others, a good choice if you don't have a lot of forces to spare.
    [X] Lower Militia Standards: Oppose- This reduction in training will have too much of an impact on your ability to defend your worlds from both raids and conquest.
    [X]Plan Deus Ferreus
    -[X] Military Support Level: independent Command
    -[X] Military Support Target: Unchained
    -[X] Demon Worlds: Two
    -[X] Chaos Polities: One
    -[X] Chaos Polities: Kingdom of Confusion
    -[X] Gylfaginning: Support
    -[X] Trade Levy: Keep
    -[X] Lower Militia Standards: Write in argument
    --[X] Implement a two-tier militia system, with half keeping the current standards, while the other half (those not meeting health standards for guard recruitment, working in high productivity professions, etc) only training for 4 hours a week (so they are still not helpless/useless in genuine emergency/invasion, as well as preserving martial culture).
    [X] Plan DaemonHunter T -1
    -[X] Military Support Level: independent Command
    -[X] Military Support Target: Unchained
    -[X] Demon Worlds: Two
    -[X] Chaos Polities: One
    -[X] Chaos Polities: Sslyth Concordat
    --[X] This is a polity of Slaanesh, who recently lost critical domains. They will likely have had to purge large parts of their military and leadership and be very disorganized, so we can take them out right now at a bargain price compared to doing it later.
    -[X] Gylfaginning: Oppose
    -[X] Trade Levy: Remove
    -[X] Lower Militia Standards: Write in argument
    --[X] Implement a two-tier militia system, with half keeping the current standards, while the other half (those not meeting health standards for guard recruitment, working in high productivity professions, etc) only training for 4 hours a week (so they are still not helpless/useless in genuine emergency/invasion, as well as preserving martial culture).
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The Hundred and Twelfth Meeting of the High Council Part Three: Proposals Resolved and the Dragons Nest Sector
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    • The Hundred and Twelfth Meeting of the High Council Part Three: Proposals Resolved and the Dragons Nest Sector

    X] Military Support Level: independent Command
    --[X] There is a huge gap in the ability of worlds to deploy forces. Planets in the Core Sector with greater development and the influence of the Lighthouse can deploy a far greater proportion of their forces (and also absolute amount of forces) due to safety and superior economics. Setting the same standard across worlds would be inefficient.
    -[X] Military Support Target: Unchained
    --[X] Right now the various Ophelian forces are as weak as they can be, a fact which will very quickly change if the First-Damned has the time to get their house in order. Investing as heavily as possible as early as possible will have the greatest possible impact. The danger of Ophelia rebornis also much more severe - Should Ophelia be reborn proper, not just the Unchained but also Callamus would be tied down handling a disaster. Better to invest as much as possible to cull it before we see the Abomination acting intelligently.
    -[X] Demon Worlds: Two
    --[X] Two worlds will still provide us most of what we want, and focusing on less worlds means better outcomes since forces can be concentrated more plus weaker worlds selected.
    -[X] Chaos Polities: One
    -[X] Chaos Polities: Sslyth Concordat
    --[X] This is a polity of Slaanesh, who recently lost critical domains. They will likely have had to purge large parts of their military and leadership and be very disorganized, so we can take them out right now at a bargain price compared to doing it later.
    --[X] Their patron deity losing a third of their power, plus the massive reorganization that they will need to do (plus possibly having just gone through/going through a minor/major civil war) means extreme damage can be done for comparatively very little effort.
    -[X] Gylfaginning: Oppose
    -[X] Trade Levy: Remove
    --[X] The primary reasoning behind the Trade Levy, self-sufficiency and the cost of protecting merchant vessels, no longer holds given the dramatic advances in technology that have occurred. Primal Trade Vessels just as an example will gradually negate the cost and danger of relying on trade, and Trust space is far more secure these days.
    -[X] Lower Militia Standards: Write in argument
    --[X] Implement a two-tier militia system, with half keeping the current standards, while the other half (those not meeting health standards for guard recruitment, working in high productivity professions, etc) only training for 4 hours a week (so they are still not helpless/useless in genuine emergency/invasion, as well as preserving martial culture).
    --[X] The dangers of a ground invasion these days is simply much less, and our ability to respond to invasions also much greater (crazy warp travel speed & primal travel are the big ones here). The value of a greater economy to the military can't be understated.

    Between your well reasoned arguments and reputation you were able to win enough votes to convince the High Council to support allowing but not forcing the Trust's member governments to deploy their PDF forces to support various allies, winning by a pair of votes over having the Trust muster its PDF directly. The vote over who the Trust should support was similarity close, with your vote and that of the Sub-Sector Governor Rolof of Valinor being enough to have the High Council focus its support on the Unchained rather then split it between the Unchained and the Silver Skulls
    Military Support Level
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=87+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)+5(argument)=178: Success, convince 9 votes

    Military Support Target
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=6+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)+5(argument)=97: Success, convince 1 vote

    The High Council was liable to end up deciding to go after two daemon worlds even without your arguments, but once you put your words and reputation behind it two ended up winning by a solid six votes.
    Daemon Worlds
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=58+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)+5(argument)=149: Success, convince 6 votes

    The High Council was rather determined to go after two different chaos polities at once, confident in the superiority of the Trust's military. You spent days arguing down the various proponents of that goal, and eventually managed to gather just enough support to reduce the targets to a single polity. The argument over which polity to target was far easier, as while going after the Kingdom of Confusion was generally supported there was still a good bit of support for the other two targets, enough that you were able to convince enough High Councillors to go after the easy target that the Sslyth Concordat currently makes.
    Chaos Polities Number
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=85+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)=171: Success, convince 9 votes

    Chaos Polities Target
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=60+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)+10(argument)=156: Success, convince 7 votes

    The High Councils mood on Gylfaginning was very split, enough so that you are unsure whether the proposal would have passed or not if you abstained. As it was your vote and political weight was enough to ensure that the proposal was soundly defeated. The trade levy vote was far more unified, with a solid majority voting to repeal it even before you got involved. You hope that the various economic improvements will be enough to support the Trust without having to raise the taxation rate even more to make up for the loss of the levy.
    Gylfaginning
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=65+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)=151: Success, convince 7 votes

    Trade Levy
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=25+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)+10(argument)=121: Success, convince 4 votes

    Your compromise proposal where only half of the militia has its training reduced was quickly agreed on, though you suspect that Avernus is not the only world that will keep its militia training above the legally mandated minimum. You estimate that this change should increase general economic productivity by around a sixth.
    Change Militia standards
    DC 90/100/110/120/130/140/150/160/170
    d100=32+27(stats)+21(standing)+18(prestige)+20(Minister of War)+20(compromise)=138: Success, convince 5 votes


    The Dragon's Nest Sector eighty light-years to the east of Midgard is the second sector in the Imperial Trust, in pretty much every way. Ruled by the Blood Dragon's chapter of Astartes it was once an Astartes Protectorate that was considered to be the most powerful Imperial Remnant in the region, time which gave it a level of social cohesion that few other parts of the Imperial Trust can boast of. As the second oldest of the Trusts sectors it has had the most time to develop barring the Core Sector, and is the only Sector with more than a fraction of the Core Sectors economic or military might.
     
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    • Durin said:
    The Dragon's Nest Sector eighty light-years to the east of Midgard is the second sector in the Imperial Trust, in pretty much every way. Ruled by the Blood Dragon's chapter of Astartes it was once an Astartes Protectorate that was considered to be the most powerful Imperial Remnant in the region, time which gave it a level of social cohesion that few other parts of the Imperial Trust can boast of. As the second oldest of the Trusts sectors it has had the most time to develop barring the Core Sector, and is the only Sector with more than a fraction of the Core Sectors economic or military might.
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    is this for the next update or is it missing something becouse i don't understand why this bit is here?
     
    If Gylfaginning's sector can't bring more than a fraction of the core sector economic or military might then I feel better about voting it down as a world of strategic importance.
     
    Given the long lead on development the core had, I'm not sure that's a fair or viable determinant.
     
    w34v3r said:
    Given the long lead on development the core had, I'm not sure that's a fair or viable determinant.
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    Systems of strategic importance shouldn't be determined by what's fair. It should be determined by strategic importance.

    Gylfaginning was specified in the previous update as not having more economic might than several other systems that weren't labeled as strategically important. And it doesn't have anything else of significance to it than economic output.
     
    inverted_helix said:
    Systems of strategic importance shouldn't be determined by what's fair. It should be determined by strategic importance.

    Gylfaginning was specified in the previous update as not having more economic might than several other systems that weren't labeled as strategically important. And it doesn't have anything else of significance to it than economic output.
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    Which is why Viable was also invoked. Simply put the core is always gonna be the biggest producer by a wide margin, unless someone else pulls an Us inside trust territory. By the metric of production there's never going to be any other systems of strategic importance. We need to be looking at warp routes, proximity to various points of interest, and unique training facilities.
     
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    Briefvoice said:
    If Gylfaginning's sector can't bring more than a fraction of the core sector economic or military might then I feel better about voting it down as a world of strategic importance.
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    That's actually a argument for declaring I an strategic world, it having extremely high developement and fortification level in an otherwise underdeveloped and outlying sector makes it a very important hub and strongpoint for the region, giving it strategic importance due to its strategic position. It was definitely up to discussion, but definitely not as a clear-cut decision you've and some other posters are implying.
     
    You need 2/3 of the votes for a system to be made one of strategic importance.
     
    The Hundred and Twelfth Meeting of the High Council Part Four: Trade and the rest of the Trust
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    • The Hundred and Twelfth Meeting of the High Council Part Four: Trade and the rest of the Trust

    As the High Council Meeting comes to a close come the time in which various worlds traditionally set up trade deals for the coming half century.

    Finally it is time to make any trade deal you need to conduct for the coming century, or half century as the galaxy sees it.
    (note, from your point of view you will get half of what you pay for, and have to pay half as much)
    GeneralThrones ModifierMaterial ModifierMetal ModifierPromethium modifierAM multiplierEM multiplierFood multiplierRelic Material ModifierProduction Multplier
    61.03761057324014628437912471
    Total IncomeThronesMaterialMetalPromethiumAdvanced MaterialExotic MaterialFoodRelic MaterialProduction
    Income Building2,759,47901,177,1886,5801,980,33211,940,66452,75310251.4275,615
    Income Base17,266,68187,7529,043,218634,90983,626,95330,142,25236,88610473.74,567,672
    Bonus Morale4,316,67021,9382,260,805158,72712,544,0431,507,1139,22101,141,918
    Productivity Bonus347,275116,8311600020,62341,509
    Upkeep (Building)-42,988,792-1,003,527-544,367-3,493,339-7,913,067-7,814,589-9,120-3,858.00
    Upkeep (City)-726,586-211,109-288,909-110,259-6,969-30,344-100,2030
    Upkeep (Military)-13,653-244,3950-47,437-20,423,040-17,650,323-5,668-457.20
    Upkeep (Other)-46,707,253-23,948,542-34,299-75,362-15,464,903-5,686,894-5,357,706-9,351.90
    Upkeep (Space)-11,337,898-389,819-343,076-1,266,111-1,225,150-662,222-3-242.68,014
    Saving Admin128,736,71820,347,6171,101,4004,547,37219,987,6708,923,6131,373,6511,895.50
    Trade
    Tithe24,976,046983,04015,145,6468,113,7394,915,200
    Net Income-14,158,714772,4744,920,814355,24088,251,51628,783,009935,6358,7116,034,729
    Current Reserves94,406,015174,535,50525,163,68710,213,86321,768,20991,136,1729,268,577141,695


    Current DebtNext turn debt
    261,019,26622,727,931,476
    Tax RateTax after Sales
    219,729,6152,246,639,017

    Imperial Trust Trade MatrixBuy/Sell PriceBuy LimitSell Limit
    Thrones50.00NoneNone
    Material214.0130,000,000None
    Metal141.6210,000,000None
    Promethium29.6415,000,000None
    Advanced Material164.0835,000,000None
    Exotic Material151.7040,000,000None
    Relic Material5,000.000.00None
    Food386.695,000,000None

    The poorly named New Sector and the Crystal Sector the first colony sectors, being the first two sectors wholly formed out of planets colonised by the Imperial Trust. There are another three sectors currently in the process of being colonised that are expected to achieve independence in the next few decades, and four more that will achieve independence within the century.
    The older of the two, the New Sector lies around a hundred light-years north of Midgard, and was colonised in the aftermath of the iron war. As such many of its worlds were colonised by refugees brought into the Trust in the lead up to the Iron War, giving it the most varied cultural makeup out of any sector within the Imperial Trust, including the Boessaewth one of the two alien members of the Imperial Trust. Its six sub-sectors have little tying them together bar astrography and a sense of independence from the three main cultural groupings of the Imperial Trust.
    The Crystal Sector is another fifty light-years past New Sector, and was formed by colonists from the Imperial Trust, the vast majority of whom came from the more densely populated worlds such as Midgard. Actually, Midgard may have provided the majority of colonists by itself, you would have to check the records. It's only a few decades since the Crystal Sector graduated from being colonies and it has yet to form any strong identity as a whole.
    Beyond the Crystal Sector lies three sectors that are currently being colonised, stretching another four hundred and fifty light-years North.
    Even further to the north lies the two Vestri Sectors, the Vestri Heartlands and the Vestri Outer Reaches. Until little over a quarter of a century ago the Vestri Sectors were an independent polity allied with the Imperial Trust. While their joining the Trust was long planned on both sides, between their long independent history and the fact that they mostly consist of Squat Abhumans has led to them being very culturally distinct from the rest of the Trust. In fact, unlike most of the Trust they are not even a successor state to the Old Imperium. It's unclear how the Vestri will integrate into the Trust in the long term, but as things are they have been mostly cut off and rather clannish.
     
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    • Durin said:
    It's got a population of around three trillion
    It's not the most densely populated hive world there is, but it's on the listb
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    @Durin:
    1) What are the most populated hive worlds in the galaxy at this time, from top down to Midgard? Can't imagine the list of hive worlds is that long these days.
    2) How would the average Midgardian these days rate in the Old Imperium in terms of education and taboo knowledge?
    3) Is Muspelheim looking to build new cities at all?
     
    HanEmpire said:
    Can't imagine the list of hive worlds is that long these days.
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    Literally every single world in Trust is a hive world by Imperial standards - one of requirements for transitioning from colony to full member world is population of over 100 billion, Midgard at the start of the quest had population of 110 billion as was considered a hive world, even I not particularly populous one.
     
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    HanEmpire said:
    @Durin:
    1) What are the most populated hive worlds in the galaxy at this time, from top down to Midgard? Can't imagine the list of hive worlds is that long these days.
    2) How would the average Midgardian these days rate in the Old Imperium in terms of education and taboo knowledge?
    3) Is Muspelheim looking to build new cities at all?
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    1) not fully fleshed out, Midgard is somwhere in the top 50
    2) the average Midgardian has a better education then anyone outside of the Mechanicus, and is routinely taught knowledge that the Inquisition killed its own members for knowing
    3) a few but not many
     
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