The Leila Hann Let's Watch Spoiler Thread: Seriously, Stop Spoiling Stuff

Is there anything particularly notable about this set of RWBY episodes? Otherwise this will be a pretty boring couple updates.
No. These are the episodes where the cast sticks themselves in YET ANOTHER HOUSE for three episodes (they were stuck house-sitting for 10 episodes in Season 5 waiting for the plot to come to them) while they angst and whine about how impossible their odds are. I'm guessing these episodes were picked because they "address the show's criticisms" by having Yang repeatedly say "why are we even doing this?" in Episode 6...and then it turns out she was under partial mind control, so we're supposed to take these as strawman points.
 
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Is there anything particularly notable about this set of RWBY episodes? Otherwise this will be a pretty boring couple updates.
Presumably, whoever commissioned them thinks this is where RWBY really gets good you guys. IIRC, that sort of opinion just kept coming up during her RWBY watch every time she was past the last place it was supposed to have gotten good.

Either that or they're just a sadist with money to waste.
 
I've more or less adjusted to the fact that RWBY has a dedicated fanbase who are convinced they can make Leila like it, no matter how much reality gets in the way.
 
Presumably, whoever commissioned them thinks this is where RWBY really gets good you guys. IIRC, that sort of opinion just kept coming up during her RWBY watch every time she was past the last place it was supposed to have gotten good.
The only time this ever became true was Season 7 Episode 11, which they immediately squandered in the very next episode by throwing all their storytelling away for even more dumb BS because how dare we have a sympathetic character that doesn't blindly obey Ruby.
And then Season 8 happened and Ruby instantly became the most despicable human being in the entire setting without any of the writing staff (or fans, given the Nuts&Dolts fanbase somehow managed to survive this season's tainting of their ship) realizing it.
 
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I enjoyed much of the book 1 of RWBY, but it already had enough things (mainly White Fang and Jaune) for me to dislike that i never watched book 2.
 
I genuinely like the show and have no idea why anyone would think Leila is going to, at this point. Like... it's okay for people to not like something that you like! Forcing it on her doesn't do anyone any favors.
 
The only time this ever became true was Season 7 Episode 11, which they immediately squandered in the very next episode by throwing all their storytelling away for even more dumb BS because how dare we have a sympathetic character that doesn't blindly obey Ruby.
And then Season 8 happened and Ruby instantly became the most despicable human being in the entire setting without any of the writing staff (or fans, given the Nuts&Dolts fanbase somehow managed to survive this season's tainting of their ship) realizing it.
No, what happened there was that a character whose fall to villainy had been foreshadowed since his first appearence in Season 2 finally completed his fall to villainy. But because he was a Hard Man who Makes Hard Decisions, a bunch of people bent over backwards to pretend he'd never done anything wrong in his life.

And I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about re: RWBY becoming despicable in Volume 8
 
No, what happened there was that a character whose fall to villainy had been foreshadowed since his first appearence in Season 2 finally completed his fall to villainy. But because he was a Hard Man who Makes Hard Decisions, a bunch of people bent over backwards to pretend he'd never done anything wrong in his life.

And I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about re: RWBY becoming despicable in Volume 8
Ruby unilaterally decides to dump most of the people in Atlas into a hostile desert, then condemns the rest to death by the city they are on falling out of the sky, or having a city fall on top of them.
 
Ruby unilaterally decides to dump most of the people in Atlas into a hostile desert, then condemns the rest to death by the city they are on falling out of the sky, or having a city fall on top of them.
No, Ruby arranges for the entire population of both Atlas and Mantle to be evacuated to only place in the world that has the manpower to keep them safe, and the only reason it didn't go off without a hitch is because the Genie was a jerkass with the wording.

She also didn't unilaterally decide anything, it was a plan made with the input of multiple people
 
No, what happened there was that a character whose fall to villainy had been foreshadowed since his first appearence in Season 2 finally completed his fall to villainy. But because he was a Hard Man who Makes Hard Decisions, a bunch of people bent over backwards to pretend he'd never done anything wrong in his life.
Foreshadowed =/= believably- or well-executed. People sympathized with Ironwood not because "WOW SO MANLY", but because he was the ONLY PERSON with any kind of plan, while all the protagonists were just complaing about how "enacting martial law" in a city ACTIVELY UNDER SIEGE BY EVIL MONSTERS was being mean. It's as if Londoners were complaining about war bonds during the Blitz. And then Ruby, rather than try and argue or compromise with him, actively antagonizes him and makes herself and her whole team enemies just to satisfy her own ego, leading to all the problems that make up Season 8.


And I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about re: RWBY becoming despicable in Volume 8
All the stuff involving her interactions with Penny, insisting on aiding terrorist militias who wanted to move people from their homes to a refugee camp, trying to continue the Amity Plan instead of turn back on the power in Mantle (directly leading to the rest of Penny's issues that season), hiding in a mansion drinking tea while Atlas was under attack, and then having the entire plot collapse around her to justify all her actions and beliefs as the right ones.
 
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No, what happened there was that a character whose fall to villainy had been foreshadowed since his first appearence in Season 2 finally completed his fall to villainy. But because he was a Hard Man who Makes Hard Decisions, a bunch of people bent over backwards to pretend he'd never done anything wrong in his life.
We both know that's not true. Why do you seem to think you're the only person who watched the show?
 
Foreshadowed =/= believably- or well-executed. People sympathized with Ironwood not because "WOW SO MANLY", but because he was the ONLY PERSON with any kind of plan, while all the protagonists were just complaing about how "enacting martial law" in a city ACTIVELY UNDER SIEGE BY EVIL MONSTERS was being mean. It's as if Londoners were complaining about war bonds during the Blitz. And then Ruby, rather than try and argue or compromise with him, actively antagonizes him and makes herself and her whole team enemies just to satisfy her own ego, leading to all the problems that make up Season 8.
Okay, let say this this straight out: Ironwood's fall was foreshadowed believably, and in a well executed manner. I was there in volume 2 when everyone's first reaction to him was "Future villain here, for sure." I was there in Volume 7, when the sentiment throughout the entire season was "Ironwood's definitely gonna be a villain, but I hope the heroes can stop that. The show's surprised us before". I was there when people were pointing out his character flaws and how they would lead to him going bad after every episode he appeared in. I was there when people were posting about his behavior in previous volumes, and the ways that his flaws were obscured by being to the heroes benefit in those moments.

Ironwood didn't have a plan. He had idea in the midst of a mental breakdown and refused to consider any options other than that one.

And no, the protagonists were not complaining about him "enacting martial law", they took issue with him abandoning his duty and leaving numerous people to die.

Here's a better analogy for the situation: This situation would be like if the Queen ordered all the lights in poor people's houses to be left on during the blitz so that the bombs would be dropped on them instead of her. A callous, and entirely unnecessary sacrifice of human life.

And don't even try to feed me this bullshit about them antagonizing him. He's the guy who antagonized them. He's the guy who responded to "We're still with you" by getting mad at them. He's the guy who was acting like a paranoid lunatic before he knew that Salem was coming there personally.

Ruby did try to argue with him, she did try to convince him not to abandon his duty to protect Mantle. He refused to budge. Oh, and let's not forget that when Ruby got a call in the middle of that conversation, and reached for her phone to answer it, his response was to reach for his gun.

All the stuff involving her interactions with Penny, insisting on aiding terrorist militias who wanted to move people from their homes to a refugee camp, trying to continue the Amity Plan instead of turn back on the power in Mantle (directly leading to the rest of Penny's issues that season), hiding in a mansion drinking tea while Atlas was under attack, and then having the entire plot collapse around her to justify all her actions and beliefs as the right ones.
1. Yes, because insisting that your friend not kill herself is such a terrible thing to do.

2. What fucking terrorist militias? Are you talking about Robyn, the person who was trying to stop Ironwood from illegally stealing supplies to funnel into a side project? Oh and don't think I didn't notice you complaining about the Happy Huntresses leading people to the warmest place in a tundra black out right before placing the blame on said blackout on the protagonists.

3. Yes, the Heroes focused on doing what they were capable of doing to help the situation, instead of doing something they were completely incapable of doing. But, do you know who could have turned the heat back on in Mantle in no time at all, for no cost that he wasn't already paying? Ironwood. He could have had Watts in a second. And instead of doing that, what Ironwood did was have an agent of the enemy he's fighting take control over the person he has every reason in the world to want to keep out of the enemy's hands.

4. They hiding because one of their team mates was in critical condition and needed medical aid. And also because they have every reason to believe that trying to help fight the grim will just result in Ironwood ordering his men to arrest them because they disagreed with him.
We both know that's not true. Why do you seem to think you're the only person who watched the show?
Because all Greener is doing is parroting the same talking points as a dozen other online dipshits who make a career out of creating clickbait videos bitching about RWBY.

For the entire time Ironwood has been on the show, I watched it as it came out. I saw everything Ironwood did, and I saw the audience reaction to him as the episodes came out. I saw people peg him as a villain the moment they saw him. I saw their surprise when he turned out to be on the heroes side. And I saw everyone realize the ways he was flawed as a person and how they would be really bad if he ever turned against the protags.
 
Rule 3: Be Civil
Okay, let say this this straight out: Ironwood's fall was foreshadowed believably, and in a well executed manner. I was there in volume 2 when everyone's first reaction to him was "Future villain here, for sure." I was there in Volume 7, when the sentiment throughout the entire season was "Ironwood's definitely gonna be a villain, but I hope the heroes can stop that. The show's surprised us before". I was there when people were pointing out his character flaws and how they would lead to him going bad after every episode he appeared in. I was there when people were posting about his behavior in previous volumes, and the ways that his flaws were obscured by being to the heroes benefit in those moments.

Ironwood didn't have a plan. He had idea in the midst of a mental breakdown and refused to consider any options other than that one.

And no, the protagonists were not complaining about him "enacting martial law", they took issue with him abandoning his duty and leaving numerous people to die.

Here's a better analogy for the situation: This situation would be like if the Queen ordered all the lights in poor people's houses to be left on during the blitz so that the bombs would be dropped on them instead of her. A callous, and entirely unnecessary sacrifice of human life.

And don't even try to feed me this bullshit about them antagonizing him. He's the guy who antagonized them. He's the guy who responded to "We're still with you" by getting mad at them. He's the guy who was acting like a paranoid lunatic before he knew that Salem was coming there personally.

Ruby did try to argue with him, she did try to convince him not to abandon his duty to protect Mantle. He refused to budge. Oh, and let's not forget that when Ruby got a call in the middle of that conversation, and reached for her phone to answer it, his response was to reach for his gun.
Hey, I also watched season 2 when it aired, and you're full of shit. I also remember what actually happened in the show, and you're lying to my face. Do you really think you can get away with lying about objective reality? You're not Ruby, the world doesn't distort to pretend whatever you say is what happened.

Trying to defend RWBY by lying about it is actively counter-productive. Try to at least stick to the truth.
 
Okay can we not start an argument like this here? It's not the place and it's definitely not going to be productive.
 
Hey, I also watched season 2 when it aired, and you're full of shit. I also remember what actually happened in the show, and you're lying to my face. Do you really think you can get away with lying about objective reality? You're not Ruby, the world doesn't distort to pretend whatever you say is what happened.

Trying to defend RWBY by lying about it is actively counter-productive. Try to at least stick to the truth.
I'm not lying about anything. I literally rewatched the scene where Ironwood turned against them while writing that post.

Wasn't it originally Winter's idea to enact martial law?
She may have brought it up in a prior scene, I can't quite recall. But during the scene itself, the Martial law bit only comes well into the scene, after the "Abandon my duty to protect mantle, and leave the rest of the world to rot by raising Atlas to the sky" plan is announced, and I doubt Winter would make the same suggestion if she knew that was the goal.
 
The way this is going I actively dread whatever jerk is going to inevitably commission more Jojo
At a bare minimum, Leila enjoyed the building blocks of Jojo enough that she straight up wrote a fanfic retelling part 1 and 2, so I honestly wouldn't be against someone commissioning a few later episodes if they think there's a particular fight or something she would enjoy.

By comparison, RWBY has generated nothing but active contempt and moderate hatred from Lelia for more than half its full runtime; it's frankly far too late to change her opinion with a "no really it gets good here" unless some insane masterpiece of writing occurs, which.

It's RWBY. That won't happen.
 
I'm not lying about anything. I literally rewatched the scene where Ironwood turned against them while writing that post.
And that's your problem. The show is lying to you, and you're turning around and repeating that lie either deliberately or because you've outright forgotten what happens in the show. Either way, it's still a lie.

RWBY isn't consistent. The writers don't care about being consistent, and so it contradicts itself in a way that reality can't. You consistently try to present it as a series in which things happen for a reason other than the writers feeling like it.

Look:
She may have brought it up in a prior scene, I can't quite recall.
Here's something that's actually critical to the discussion at hand, and you don't recall. From your own mouth, you don't recall, so you're going by what a later episode of the show says.

You are hurting your argument by doing this.

RWBY is a badly made series. You can like it, that's fine, but don't pretend it's not.
 
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But I do think they should get better means of tormenting Leila
Right? If the goal is to make her unhappy for sadistic reasons you could at least find something that'll lure her in and then surprise her with being awful, rather than something everyone involved should know she's not going to like from jump.

At a bare minimum, Leila enjoyed the building blocks of Jojo enough that she straight up wrote a fanfic retelling part 1 and 2, so I honestly wouldn't be against someone commissioning a few later episodes if they think there's a particular fight or something she would enjoy.

By comparison, RWBY has generated nothing but active contempt and moderate hatred from Lelia for more than half its full runtime; it's frankly far too late to change her opinion with a "no really it gets good here" unless some insane masterpiece of writing occurs, which.

It's RWBY. That won't happen.
I mean, she even says in this review that because of the earlier stuff not being written super well, even if the writing did become amazing it'd be hard to write their way out of the problems the early seasons left. And, like... that's just true?

Again, I like the show and think that the last couple of seasons in particular are substantially better in several ways than the ones that've come before. I think the Ironwood heel-turn was decently executed (even if it, like most of the show, could've been better and clearer if it wasn't so rushed), and that people blame RWBY (the characters) for things that aren't their fault pretty much constantly (like, there's been something in each season since... 3? 2? 4 at the absolute latest, that some member of RWBY is evilbad for doing/not doing).

But even as someone who likes it, the early messiness leaves a lot of flaws that just... won't go away just because the current writing is better. The White Fang, for instance.

Okay, let say this this straight out: Ironwood's fall was foreshadowed believably, and in a well executed manner. I was there in volume 2 when everyone's first reaction to him was "Future villain here, for sure."
Hey, I also watched season 2 when it aired, and you're full of shit.
This just sounds like y'all watched/talked with different people who had different reactions, I gotta say. 'Cause I know some people were all-in on him being a villain (either immediately or in the future) and a lot of other people were glad he so obviously wasn't a villain.
 
Keeping this to addressing the last paragraph to avoid spaghettiposting. Might say more in PMs.

No, these are my own observations. People criticizing RWBY is not some kind of grand conspiracy of sourpusses trying to make people miserable, it's people being upset at having their time wasted and trying to rationalize it the best way they can.


EVERYONE was expecting Ironwood to turn out evil from the moment he was introduced in Season 2. This show really isn't subtle FFS. But they've completely mishandled what he's supposed to be meant as over the course of the SEVEN SEASONS he's existed in, which when combined with how mishandled the rest of the cast is, he ends up being painted as more sympathetic and reasonable than any of the actual protagonists. They're trying to go for a General Ripper, but they ended up with Rossiu - and not in a show ruled by hot-blooded determination like Gurren Lagann or Naruto, but in a show that's trying to be all DARK and COMPLICATED like the big prestige live-action shows a la Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad. And I honestly have no idea how they ended up like that from their original Tarrlok template.
No, Ironwood doesn't get painted as more reasonable and sympathetic than the cast. Keeping your voice calm doesn't mean you're acting reasonably.

And that's your problem. The show is lying to you, and you're turning around and repeating that lie either deliberately or because you've outright forgotten what happens in the show. Either way, it's still a lie.

RWBY isn't consistent. The writers don't care about being consistent, and so it contradicts itself in a way that reality can't. You consistently try to present it as a series in which things happen for a reason other than the writers feeling like it.
I present the show as what it actually is instead of twisting everything around in order to demonize it as you are doing.
Look:
Here's something that's actually critical to the discussion at hand, and you don't recall. From your own mouth, you don't recall, so you're going by what a later episode of the show says.

You are hurting your argument by doing this.
Forgetting one thing doesn't mean I've forgotten everything about the show. And don't think I didn't notice you cutting out the part of the post where I go over the massive change in context that happened between Ironwood choosing Martial Law and whatever scene that Winter would have made that suggestion in.

Now, after writing this I've gone to look up the scene where Winter recomends Martial Law. And I find that Winter's suggestion is even less relevant to Ironwood's decision than I previously thought. Winter makes this suggestion several episodes prior to Ironwood declaring Martial Law. In the scene where she recomends it, she does so in order to stop another character from interfering in their current plan, to rebuild Amity Arena and re-established global communications. By the time that Ironwood actually declares Martial Law, he does so because he believes that the people of Atlas' government would object to him abandoning said plan to reestablish global communications.

TLDR, Ironwood declared Martial Law for literally the exact opposite reason that Winter suggested it.
 
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