I think Monogatari might profit from just how weird some of the later stuff gets. I have been thinking about how I managed to forget so much creepy shit in the early series, and my theory is - and this is going to sound really terrible - that the early creepyness just isn't memorable enough compared to what comes afterwards. Like, I remembered without a doubt that Monogatari had creepy shit in it, but moments like the famous toothbrushing scene are what always came to my mind. And that one is just so surreal and removed from usual, recognizable human sexuality that it isn't actually that repugnant, somehow. Like, I remember that one constantly being posted on reddit without any loud complaints.
The Leila Hann Let's Watch Spoiler Thread: Seriously, Stop Spoiling Stuff
- Thread starter E73S
- Start date
- SPOILERS
I think Monogatari might profit from just how weird some of the later stuff gets. I have been thinking about how I managed to forget so much creepy shit in the early series, and my theory is - and this is going to sound really terrible - that the early creepyness just isn't memorable enough compared to what comes afterwards. Like, I remembered without a doubt that Monogatari had creepy shit in it, but moments like the famous toothbrushing scene are what always came to my mind. And that one is just so surreal and removed from usual, recognizable human sexuality that it isn't actually that repugnant, somehow. Like, I remember that one constantly being posted on reddit without any loud complaints.
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Mark Twain arguably codified the modern isekai in the 1889 with A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, while also being cleverer and more introspective than most of them. I mean like both it and Gate have a scene where medieval knights get gratuitously mowed down by machine guns, but the tone and outcome of each couldn't be more different. Its also kind of impressive that Mark Twain wrote it decades before WWI would prove just how gratuitous industrial era butchery really could be.
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- Writeland
It was post American Civil War, which was more than a good enough sneak peek at what was to come of industrialized warfare for anyone who cared to actually think about it.
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- West Michigan
Yeah, Nisemono- really shifted the tone of "What the fuck, Araragi?" from "Araragi wants to molest Mayoi" to "Araragi is probably cheating on Hitagi with at least one of his sisters (if not both)."
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Rule 3: Be Civil
... given said sisters are closer to Mayoi's age then Sengouhara's that doesn't make him or the show less peadophilic.
Edit: So because this needs to be made clear for some fucking reason and you all aren't getting it. @SwiftRosenthal @CeBrudras @McFluffles @RoyalNoises @Valmond @Bernkastel @Doby Mick @Greener223224
"CHILD PORNOGRAPHY IS BAD, ACTUALLY"
"IF YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO WATCH IT YOU ARE A BAD PERSON"
"IF IT IS A DRAW FOR YOU, YOU MAY BE A BAD PERSON"
"IF YOU MAKE EXCUSES FOR IT YOU MAY ALSO BE A BAD PERSON"
Edit: So because this needs to be made clear for some fucking reason and you all aren't getting it. @SwiftRosenthal @CeBrudras @McFluffles @RoyalNoises @Valmond @Bernkastel @Doby Mick @Greener223224
"CHILD PORNOGRAPHY IS BAD, ACTUALLY"
"IF YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO WATCH IT YOU ARE A BAD PERSON"
"IF IT IS A DRAW FOR YOU, YOU MAY BE A BAD PERSON"
"IF YOU MAKE EXCUSES FOR IT YOU MAY ALSO BE A BAD PERSON"
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Bernkastel
The Witch of Miracles
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- United Kingdom
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Yes? I've not at any point disagreed with any of that.
If you'd point out the place where I said "Child Pornography is pretty cool, actually" or made excuses for it, that would be quite nice, since I don't recall saying anything of the sort. What I said was, and I quote:
I am in no way justifying Bakemonogatari having borderline/softcore child porn; I am not saying that "oh boy this is a draw for me can't wait to watch it!" The likelyhood is I'll have forgotten all this next week anyways, and will never get around to watching the show since I have a backlog of shit to do that doesn't have those issues anyways.
I am saying that this is the first time I've ever heard of that being an issue with the show, and that as I mentioned, Bile Fascination: since this is such a genuine surprise to hear about, I almost want to know and see for myself just how bad this apparently gets, and I can then condemn the show on my own views rather than just "Leila has said it's child porn guess it's child porn".
You can stick with implying half the people in the thread are in fact pedophiles for daring to discuss a piece of media if you want though, that's cool. Really, if we're going that far, how's that Grand Order thing you presumably have interest in, judging by your avatar? I seem to recall it having multiple crossovers with Prisma Ilya, the pedo-bait spinoff with fate, and oh yeah an interlude with a free character that everyone gets where she goes around sexually assaulting other pre-teen girls, guess that makes you a bad person for having ever viewed the game or anything adjacent to it.
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I could probably argue as to why this is a ridiculous equivocation but your position is most likely based on personal feelings so none of that would be relevant to you. Suffice it to say that yes, in fact, I agree that child pornography is bad. I just don't agree that this constitutes child pornography.
Also please don't tag me into your weird hate-bait posts.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
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- She/Her
Can we stop talking about this and focus on literally anything else? I'd take people doing weird dunks on RWBY over Monogatari and everything to do with it. Here, I'll do a bad comment semi-mocking Leila so someone use it as a springboard to dunk on me, just so we don't talk about this again.
Leila: NOOOOO you can't just do blatant references to other popular works of fiction!! You're ruining my immersion of the show by choosing to continue to do the things you've always done, you should match up to my expectations more!!!!
RWBY: Haha Redead go BRRRRRRR.
Leila: NOOOOO you can't just do blatant references to other popular works of fiction!! You're ruining my immersion of the show by choosing to continue to do the things you've always done, you should match up to my expectations more!!!!
RWBY: Haha Redead go BRRRRRRR.
thePUNisher
Unbothered. Moisturized. Happy. In My Lane
- Location
- Brazil
YES, LET'S DO THAT!
So that RWBY fellow, it's kinda weird how despite being all about Hunters and shit the Grimm never seem to be a big part of it beyond being disposable mooks and all the antagonists are human besides Salem.
So that RWBY fellow, it's kinda weird how despite being all about Hunters and shit the Grimm never seem to be a big part of it beyond being disposable mooks and all the antagonists are human besides Salem.
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That's because the Grimm were created to be disposable mooks. They were made to be easy to animate blob monsters for the girls to do really over the top anime combat on because that's what Monty was good at and what he liked doing, them being a real threat was never intended to be a thing because they're just there to job to waifus to show off how cool and powerful they are.
Now Monty is gone. And with him, the purpose of the Grimm. They can't do the same kind of over the top spectacle action anymore, and the show is way more about stuff like personal drama, and politics, and weird disjointed fantasy worldbuilding. So the Grimm really don't serve much of a purpose beyond just providing an excuse for more of those three things.
Now Monty is gone. And with him, the purpose of the Grimm. They can't do the same kind of over the top spectacle action anymore, and the show is way more about stuff like personal drama, and politics, and weird disjointed fantasy worldbuilding. So the Grimm really don't serve much of a purpose beyond just providing an excuse for more of those three things.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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- The Destination of Fate
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- She/Her
It's almost as if RWBY freely acknowledged from day 1 that the biggest issues plaguing mankind are one another instead of abstract forces of darkness and anonimity, and understands that giving faces to your antagonists is far more interesting for a long-term narrative! But that'd be giving it too much credit, apparently.
Oh well. I'm sure we can find something else to dunk on, like uhhh (desperately flips over script) Ironwood and how his character arc totally wasn't deserved and foreshadowed from the moment he was introduced. I hear complaining about that one is good nowadays.
Oh well. I'm sure we can find something else to dunk on, like uhhh (desperately flips over script) Ironwood and how his character arc totally wasn't deserved and foreshadowed from the moment he was introduced. I hear complaining about that one is good nowadays.
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Oh no, the script still often pretends that the Grimm matter. Whenever it needs them to anyway.
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Can you please stop concern trolling?
Plus, like I said, I'm not watching it because I like underage tits or to spite people. I'm considering watching it because it feels like I need to watch this porn in order to understand other 2010s anime. Or do you think it's possible to understand Black Clover without watching Naruto first, or Fire Force without Soul Eater?
If it's not necessary for any GOOD anime, then I won't do it. I hate fanservice anime like you wouldn't believe.
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Stop: Do not start fights.
- Location
- Void of Observation
do not start fights.
Deliberately starting a fight and incensing the thread by pinging multiple posters and attacking their moral outlooks on a sensitive issue is against Rule 4. As such, @Lupercal has been temporarily removed from the thread for 72 hours.
Deliberately starting a fight and incensing the thread by pinging multiple posters and attacking their moral outlooks on a sensitive issue is against Rule 4. As such, @Lupercal has been temporarily removed from the thread for 72 hours.
remain on topic and civil
The moral stances of people on certain suggestive content is not exactly relevant to the thread.
The moral stances of people on certain suggestive content is not exactly relevant to the thread.
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And often in the dumbest ways.
"Let's make the episode cliffhanger be a giant river of Grimm heading towards Mantle...and then follow that up next episode by having the river FLY UP TO ATLAS TO DISABLE THEIR SHIELDS...and then Monstro lands in Atlas to cliffhanger that episode."
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Should we get her to watch Berserk... She might just bounce off it considering the subject matter.
thePUNisher
Unbothered. Moisturized. Happy. In My Lane
- Location
- Brazil
Have her read Berserk, that way if she picks it up she won't have to endure the 2016 anime.
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Nah, just commission her to do EX-ARM if we want to cringe at bad CGI.
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Well yes that's what I was suggesting lol... Unless she watches the 90s adaptation...
Edit: or the movies as imperfect they may be
Leila has misunderstood things previously and ran with that misunderstanding to the detriment of understanding the series she's watching before, so her word on the situation is not always the most reliable. Given what we see in the Bakemonogateri reviews it may not be unfounded, but it is also not entirely unlikely to be an exaggeration on what is happening.
They're usually more a part of the setting than simple antagonists. Like monsters running around in D&D, which Leila does seem to have a familiarity to compare with.
They matter like bad weather or other natural disasters matter, because they are part of the setting instead of villains or characters. The fact a villain can make them more dangerous or target them at objectives just makes them more like an evil wizard throwing a storm or dragon at things.
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Eh, I'm pretty skeptical this is true. Leila can misunderstand things but given that we know that the show panders to creepy Otaku trends I don't think it's plausible that she's just confused.
No, given the show I think it's very likely that her reaction is entirely justified.
Can you think of a couple of examples?
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That is true (sees her misunderstanding King Bradley's motivations)
I guess the best way for me to put it would be to paraphrase RoyalNoises up above: I agree that child pornography is absolutely a bad thing; just that without seeing the content for myself, I couldn't tell you for sure if it crosses the line from general anime shit into what Leila believes constitutes child pornography. I certainly don't think Leila is unreliable on this matter, and absolutely respect her decision to drop something that has reached that degree of disgusting her, but do wonder to what degree it might just be pre-established disgust at the rest of the show boiling over to a breaking point, and what degree might be Monogatari's fault. Judging by what a few others have said in this thread, I'm certainly leaning towards "it's godawful but also the worst the show has to offer in that regard, it improves from there and isn't exactly framed as a good thing".
Not specific examples exactly, but it's a pretty common thing that when something breaks from enjoyable to not enjoyable you'll start picking up on and nitpicking more and more small issues that could be glossed over if you enjoyed the content more. Leila's RWBY reviews are a good example of this - she even outright says in the latest ones that if it weren't RWBY, she'd be willing to give a lot more slack, but because she's pre-dispositioned to a stance of "RWBY is godawful garbage" from slogging through the first three seasons, it becomes more "well I GUESS this is good for RWBY standards" and then every small thing sets her off again.
Or to point at something I like but exasperated Leila, there's Jojo's Bizarre Adventure - there's a lot of moments I just gloss over or shrug my shoulders at since i'm a fan, but when she was getting more and more frustrated with the show, more and more small issues would build up as "what the fuck is this show doing".
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