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The Hearts of Iron Megathread

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Personally I think Speer is comparable to modern day far right "intellectuals" such as Steve Bannon or Alexander Dugin, only in power and more technocratic than ideological this time around. In that while they reject the most blatant display of Nazism, they update it to new terminology and ideas, and seek an alliance of far right nations spreading toxic ideas rather than a single hegemonic mass sealed off from the world, or also . As Speer is also a technocrat, this comes with updating the economic structure of the ideology as well.

But when you dig closely you can see that the true image of the hateful ideology they seek to cover up remains

Through to be honest, DreadGrunt(the germany dev behind Dengist!Speer), explicitly based Speer to be Deng with a Nazi paint.
 
always_confused said:
Even more baffling are people who think Samara are the good guys by any measure of the term. No matter what path you take, Samara are objectively Nazi-collaborators that, at best, indirectly made life worse for Russians as a whole and contributed to hundreds of thousands of deaths. They're only marginally less scummy than the Aryan Brotherhood.
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I don't know, I'd say people like the Komi Far-Right, Yazov, Tukhachevsky, Rodzaevsky, Shepunov, Matkovsky, and Kaganovich are far scummier than Zykov (no objection with Bunyachenko and Oktan).
 
Nervos Belli said:
I feel like whoever designed this really liked the word Clique.
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The reality is that basically almost every single one of these states aren't legally independent nations. These are all explicitly just regionally governments under the control of various military dictators. Based on how we have 2 different states called Government, chances are each clique is partial to one or the other.
 
So there's been some more attempts to create Drama with TNO and while I'd like to avoid bringing it up at all, I want to ensure no one has a false impression of the TNO team. So here's a Reddit post explaining things.
old.reddit.com

Announcement from the Subreddit

Fucked up the title whoopsie. Anyway this all is an announcement from the discord made by Tortle, so this is in his writing,...
old.reddit.com old.reddit.com
 
A teaser about the upcoming rework to France in Red Flood:


 
About the "Dengist Speer" meme, I think that the comparison is how both transformed their respective countries into a functioning capitalistic dictatorship by removing the most radical aspects and keeping enough of its trappings to still be recognizable.


Teen Spirit said:
So there's been some more attempts to create Drama with TNO and while I'd like to avoid bringing it up at all, I want to ensure no one has a false impression of the TNO team. So here's a Reddit post explaining things.
old.reddit.com

Announcement from the Subreddit

Fucked up the title whoopsie. Anyway this all is an announcement from the discord made by Tortle, so this is in his writing,...
old.reddit.com old.reddit.com
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I wonder if those shitheads were inspired by the implosion of the Fallout: the Frontier mod team because one of the main members made pedophile drawings? :rolleyes:
 
ElMariachi said:
I wonder if those shitheads were inspired by the implosion of the Fallout: the Frontier mod team because one of the main members made pedophile drawings? :rolleyes:
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Almost certain this is the case.

In other news, here are some lore I came up for Canada in the Millennium Dusk reboot I've talked about doing. It would be probably a long time before development even gets started through as I want to formalize some sort of backstory(which is admittedly rather implausible-but I need a premise so I'm going to have to play a " Bukharin loses to the Nazis card") and some background for lore. And I have to learn about the modding thing.

With the collapse of the US government, the Canadians found themselves with a massive refugee crisis of American exiles, along with a massive economic crisis brought about by the collapse of all trade with the US that the Canadian government along with the persistent echoes of the Great Oil Crisis. This has put the liberal government under Michael Ignatieff to opposition from the edges of the political spectrum, with both the Conservatives and the NDP seeing an opportunity from this crisis to take power.

This is concerning to not just liberals, but to political moderates as well. While the leadership of the NDP and the Conservatives both are committed to the Canadian Parliamentary system of government, there are radicals within both parties-some of whom have linked with likeminded refugees coming from the south-with plans to mold their respective parties, and by extension Canadian society to their image, while seeking alliances with radicals on the left and the right worldwide. While both Cullen and Kenney have maintained control of their parties and loyalty from their members, all this could change with the right series of moving the overton window leftwards or rightwards….

However the crisis has also been opportunities for Canada to expand its political influence in the wake of the power vacuum left by America. When Alaska broke free, Canada was quick to exert it's influence over the new region; the oil in the region giving it's economy a significant boost, and has began to exert its influence on Warlords in the former United States on the East coast it finds conductive to it's policies. However the shadow of potential re-unification looms on the horizon, it's quite likely that these initial advantages might fade, especially if a unfriendly power unifies the United States, or a friendly power demands Alaska and greater political independence. Canada treads on a thin geopolitical line if it wants to carve out a new political order in North America.

tl;dr: Centrist libs vs. increasingly radical New Democrats and Conservatives.

Now some people might be uncomfortable with this portrayal but I will say this isn't some horseshoe theory crap, the most radical elements of the NDP can genuinely create a good society and their main issue is that they are open to working with tankies and political figures on the "libsoc/twitter anarchist hate list" on the world stage(I can describe them as bascically "hardline anti-imperialists), but the more radical Conservatives=more of a complete nightmare with the added "feature" of being able to work with literal fascist on the world stage.

While I don't even have any gameplay at all yet my plans for Canada is basically that the NDP and the Conservatives both have hardline and ultra-radical wings that can't come to power at the first election, but can come to power depending on how much the player screws up and what focus, and you need to make a certain number of screwups to get the hardliner dippers or Cons, and even more to get the anti-imperialist wing of the NDP or the cryptofash wing of the Conservatives into power. That said, this dosen't preclude more moderate wings of both parties from working with the more radical wings.
 
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Mechasaurian said:
Play Sverdlovsk.

I will stan for Sverdlovsk and blessed Comrade Rokossovsky.
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Why's that? I'd like to hear more.

Teen Spirit said:
Have you played Speer? Because I could think of several reasons why the Deng Comparison does not work with Speer.
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It's not a perfect comparison, but I can see why it's made and I think it's apt enough.

Hakazin said:
That is an incredible mischaracterization of what Speer's path entails. Speer isn't seeking to "deradicalize" the Reich by any means. Speer wants to use the Gang of Four to reform the German economy and military into a functional state, and to use their reformist credentials as a way of legitimizing German domestic and foreign policy, but at the end of the day, he's still fully committed to Nazism and all the horror it entails. His goal isn't to "deradicalize" the Nazi regime. If anything, his goal is to legitimize it to the world.
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Well yeah, I know that. I think you've misunderstood me. I agree with you one hundred percent. Speer wants to reform the regime to make it functional state, while legitimizing it on the world stage. I've done a Speer run, I've read the story lines on reddit. I know the lore/background, and how it plays out. The thing is that by sidelining the hardliners that oppose him, the regime is deradicalized to a certain extent, without actually changing who's ruling the country. It's more of a side effect than actual goal since it leaves the reform minded fascists and yes men in control of the party behind Speer, who's still a Nazi at the end of the day. The most self destructive and self defeating policies are down away with, while retaining power and resisting attempts at democratization.

Hence the comparison to Deng and China. The CCP managed to reform post Mao without actually having to give up control over the country. It made its authoritarian state more sustainable and presentable. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that China is the same as Nazi Germany. That's not the intention. I'm pointing out why Fascist Speer is called Dengist Speer. The writing itself deliberately invokes such comparisons, especially with the usage of the term 'Gang of Four,' though it is in a very different context.

As a side note, the thing I found most interesting about Speer's run is that he had very few ideas of his own until the end. It was mostly listening to the Gang of Four vs Hardliners the entire time. If was somewhat amusing, the grand architect had no grand plans of his own. Just vague notions about how to correct the system.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't basically every possible Reich (that doesn't get nuked by Burgundy) explicitly doomed to failure?
  • Speer loses to the Gang of Four, putting Germany on the (slow) path to some kind of sanity
  • Speer ends up a decrepit old Nazi with the Reich sputtering along on life support
  • Borman ends up a decrepit old Nazi with the Reich sputtering along on life support
  • Goering ends up a decrepit old Nazi with the Reich sputtering along on life support
  • Heydrich ends up a decrepit old Nazi with the Reich sputtering along on life support
That's basically it, right?

The question isn't "Will the Reich implode (again)?", but rather "Word will the Reich implode for good?". Even if the Gang of Four sidelines Speer and actually factually tries to de-Nazify the country, that's still an uphill battle, and even then it's not like the OFN and Russia is gonna go "Okay yeah those were the bad Germans, you guys are cool" and let them keep on keeping on.
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Some people have replied to specific variants of this, but to put it all in one post:

(Spoilers for literally every currently implemented German path in TNO)

Speer: Speer isn't a "Dengist" - if anything he's a very orthodox Nazi. But because Bormann has that niche locked down, he's had to adopt the students and dissidents from Nazism as his support base, something he's very unhappy about. Depending how the player (or AI but I've never seen AI Speer do anything but implode) juggles the various factions, the endings are four:
  • Speer is puppeted by Nazi conservatives, and this can basically be considered a variant of the Bormann ending. Can happen any time your regime stability dips too low and isn't restablized in time. No real content as of yet but Europas Narben could change this.
  • Speer loses to Schorner during the Slave Revolt. Goering without Goering.
  • Speer is puppeted by the Gang of Four, and democracy begins to return to Germany. However, this is not the Wholesome 100 Ending it has been made out to be - Russia is still gearing up for war with Germany for Moscowien, and the Go4 are going to be blamed if Germany loses that war.
  • Speer outmaneuvers both these factions and purges them. Nazism remains the dominant ideology of Germany, and Germany is still strong enough to remain a superpower for at least the rest of the mod, even if it's long-term trajectory is still probably towards collapse.
Bormann: Has been slightly changed from his original incarnation. Bormann is willing to make token reforms to keep the Reich going, but nothing that would seriously challenge Nazi ideology. At the end of his term, Germany has been painfully stitched back together and seems to be on the road to recovery - only for Bormann to be diagnosed with cancer and realize when he dies, Germany will collapse into Civil War all over again. The Red Army Faction is also starting to be active towards game's end, and it's strongly implied TNO!Germany is about to enter it's equivalent of the German Autumn.

Goering: The inverse of Speer, actually. Goering is somewhat of a reformist (and even reaches out to Speer early on, an offer that is promptly rejected) but is forced to champion the militarist faction because Speer has already occupied that niche. This route can only end in two ways:
  • Goering's mad dash to revitalize the German economy via more war comes to a screeching halt when Germany meets opposition it can't steamroll, the bottom of the German economy falls out and Germany quickly collapses into another Civil War.
  • If Goering somehow fails upwards to the point war with Japan or the United States is on the table, Goering and Schoerner are powerless to resist a new clique of ultra-militarists who are so deluded they believe Germany can actually win this conflict. Nukes fall, everyone dies.
Heydrich: Heydrich can either be a good little puppet for Himmler and hand over enough nukes to start a nuclear war, or decides to cut his strings and wages an apocalyptic war against Burgundy. In the first scenario, Nukes Fall, Everyone Dies. In the latter; Nukes Fall, Burgundy and Germany Die, and Heydrich ends up committing suicide because he believes he's failed Nazism as an ideology by slaughtering so many Aryans. Either way, Germany has been reduced to radioactive rubble.

There's also Speidel's Germany and the DSR but neither are currently implemented and will probably undergo multiple changes before they are.
 
HeyJune said:
Some people have replied to specific variants of this, but to put it all in one post:

(Spoilers for literally every currently implemented German path in TNO)

Speer: Speer isn't a "Dengist" - if anything he's a very orthodox Nazi. But because Bormann has that niche locked down, he's had to adopt the students and dissidents from Nazism as his support base, something he's very unhappy about. Depending how the player (or AI but I've never seen AI Speer do anything but implode) juggles the various factions, the endings are four:
  • Speer is puppeted by Nazi conservatives, and this can basically be considered a variant of the Bormann ending. Can happen any time your regime stability dips too low and isn't restablized in time. No real content as of yet but Europas Narben could change this.
  • Speer loses to Schorner during the Slave Revolt. Goering without Goering.
  • Speer is puppeted by the Gang of Four, and democracy begins to return to Germany. However, this is not the Wholesome 100 Ending it has been made out to be - Russia is still gearing up for war with Germany for Moscowien, and the Go4 are going to be blamed if Germany loses that war.
  • Speer outmaneuvers both these factions and purges them. Nazism remains the dominant ideology of Germany, and Germany is still strong enough to remain a superpower for at least the rest of the mod, even if it's long-term trajectory is still probably towards collapse.
Bormann: Has been slightly changed from his original incarnation. Bormann is willing to make token reforms to keep the Reich going, but nothing that would seriously challenge Nazi ideology. At the end of his term, Germany has been painfully stitched back together and seems to be on the road to recovery - only for Bormann to be diagnosed with cancer and realize when he dies, Germany will collapse into Civil War all over again. The Red Army Faction is also starting to be active towards game's end, and it's strongly implied TNO!Germany is about to enter it's equivalent of the German Autumn.

Goering: The inverse of Speer, actually. Goering is somewhat of a reformist (and even reaches out to Speer early on, an offer that is promptly rejected) but is forced to champion the militarist faction because Speer has already occupied that niche. This route can only end in two ways:
  • Goering's mad dash to revitalize the German economy via more war comes to a screeching halt when Germany meets opposition it can't steamroll, the bottom of the German economy falls out and Germany quickly collapses into another Civil War.
  • If Goering somehow fails upwards to the point war with Japan or the United States is on the table, Goering and Schoerner are powerless to resist a new clique of ultra-militarists who are so deluded they believe Germany can actually win this conflict. Nukes fall, everyone dies.
Heydrich: Heydrich can either be a good little puppet for Himmler and hand over enough nukes to start a nuclear war, or decides to cut his strings and wages an apocalyptic war against Burgundy. In the first scenario, Nukes Fall, Everyone Dies. In the latter; Nukes Fall, Burgundy and Germany Die, and Heydrich ends up committing suicide because he believes he's failed Nazism as an ideology by slaughtering so many Aryans. Either way, Germany has been reduced to radioactive rubble.

There's also Speidel's Germany and the DSR but neither are currently implemented and will probably undergo multiple changes before they are.
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There's also Bormann's fail state where he's replaced by his Deputy Fuhrer, Baldur von Schirach, if he doesn't discover his plot and trigger the Second Night of Long Knives. There's not much to that ending though, since it'll inherent the same problems Bormann was dealing with. It turns up surveillance a bit more, apparently.

always_confused said:
I'll take almost any Russian faction in Moscow over the Go4. Easily.
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Definitely. Even in Go4 ending it's turned into a military mandate 'jointly' run by the Pakt. We'll see in TNO2 what Go4/Speer's plans are for managing it. It can't easily be turned into a native collaboration regime like the other Reichcommissariats, given the rest of Russia still exists. It's a massive population and industrial center. It's not easily contained.
 
HeyJune said:
Some people have replied to specific variants of this, but to put it all in one post:

(Spoilers for literally every currently implemented German path in TNO)

Speer: Speer isn't a "Dengist" - if anything he's a very orthodox Nazi. But because Bormann has that niche locked down, he's had to adopt the students and dissidents from Nazism as his support base, something he's very unhappy about.
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Eh I wouldn't call Speer an orthodox Nazi. He is still a Nazi and an allaround awful person, but he does realize the need to modernize the ideology enough to "legitimatize" it for the second half of the 20th century. He is comparable to modern day far right neofascist figures seeking to adapt ultranationalist worldviews to the present day and water them down enough to appeal to a wider or more global crowd but keeping enough venom in it and remaining tied to the hateful core ideals at heart, except in power and with a technocratic and economical bent along with an ideological one.

I think once the victor and the judge rework comes out, Goering might potentially be even more of a reformist through, and be driven by more apolitical and simple power-seeking motivations.
 
Does anyone have any tips for breaching fortification lines? I'm trying to force my way from France into Italy along the coast so that I can move in and encircle the enemy troops in the mountains. I have attached dive bombers on CAS and a task force that can be assigned to hold position off shore (is anchoring off shore really all that needs to be done to get gunfire support? I never seem to see them actually firing on land targets).

In particular I am wondering about the merits of overtech medium tanks vs *highly* experienced motorized for forcing the breach (while I don't mind learning other templates, those are the most powerful tools I have at the moment).

Also, anyone got tips for creating division templates for low supply areas? I've been using a combination of Colonial, Cavalry, and light tank brigades with a few Colonial Divisions (plus some expeditionaries whose templates I don't control) but I've largely kept the default structures for them. Despite the supply issues I'm seriously considering switching my Colonial divisions to a 7-2 template similar to my regular infantry (minus the AT company and with cavalry instead of motorized for recon). Trying to hold back the Japanese in Vietnam with minimal artillery support hasn't been going so well.
 
So the recent controversy has attracted attention of the HOI4 co-op and they decided to believe allegations despite them clearly being lies and falsehoods. I'm sorry to turn this into the HOI4 drama thread and if this stuff needs it's own separate thread that's fine. I just want everyone here to understand these allegations are false, the TNO team is full of wonderful people and I don't want anyone here to think less of them because of slander.
 
Teen Spirit said:
So the recent controversy has attracted attention of the HOI4 co-op and they decided to believe allegations despite them clearly being lies and falsehoods. I'm sorry to turn this into the HOI4 drama thread and if this stuff needs it's own separate thread that's fine. I just want everyone here to understand these allegations are false, the TNO team is full of wonderful people and I don't want anyone here to think less of them because of slander.
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I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. What's the HOI4 Co-Op?
 
RiverDelta said:
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. What's the HOI4 Co-Op?
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It's a Discord server that's meant to give mod devs a platform to cooperate and share assets and things. Most of the major mods participate in it afaik.

I've been kinda side-eyeing the co-op ever since they banned the Bring The War Home devs, so I'm not totally surprised.
 
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