It is to some extent what happens in canon, with the OFN formulating a ceasefire between the USSR and Germany in a plot to push the crumbling German sphere into the OFN.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
The Hearts of Iron Megathread
- Thread starter Kiyone4ever
- Start date
- Megathread
Arthur Frayn
Fake God by Occupation, Magician by Inclination
- Location
- Land of Do As You Please
- Pronouns
- They/Him
True, but even then it'd have a shitload of strings attached. They might give them cover, but they wouldn't welcome them with open arms. Look at Italy, for instance - they have to jump through a lot of hoops to get into the OFN, and even then the OFN is perfectly content to sit on their hands when Egypt implodes, and can easily go "Yeah that sounds like a you problem" during the Arabian crisis.
Any rapprochement with a Gang of Four-lead Germany would almost certainly involve the loss of their Eastern European puppets, some kind of admission of war guilt/war crimes trials, etc.
- Location
- Wörms, the half continent
Isn't there a True Speer path that's like, annoyingly functional but still really horrific?
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
To an extent, it would also depend on the state of the other superpowers. If Japan and China were both completely wrecked by the Great Asian War and Russia was either favorable to America or too weak to do much then they'd be a lot more demanding of Germany than if they had a situation where German industry and manpower could be crucial to a future conflict.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Which Rus was it? Because Lydia's Rus is quite militaristic.
Yeah Speer's whole thing is a about making a viable German state that's still National Socialist.
Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
- Location
- Lost among fields of history
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ooh, is it? I hadn't realized.
Yes, it was Lydia's Rus. No wonder she managed to stop me cold. Go her.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, just in my personal opinion I'd probably rank Lydia!Kemerovo as the fourth Strongest Russia outside of Omsk, Tukh and Despotist Samara.Ooh, is it? I hadn't realized.
Yes, it was Lydia's Rus. No wonder she managed to stop me cold. Go her.
Well actually, there is the Speer path where he outmanoeuvres both, the GO4 and hardliner faction and sets the Third Reich on a path where it's modified into a state of sustainable authoritarianism that makes Nazism able to continue riding well along into the modern day. This path is otherwise popularly dubbed by the TNO fandom as the "Dengist Speer" path, not much due to any in-depth similarity that could supposedly be drawn towards Deng/post-Deng PRC, but rather because, rightly or wrongly, the modern PRC is seen as an archetype of "dictatorial one-party rule done effectively". Otherwise, I suppose something similar link could be just as well said for Oceania in "1984"- "boot stamping on the face forever" and all.
Hakazin
Serpent Admirer
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Speer actually has three routes. Either he gets couped by the conservatives (which is considered a fail-state), the Go4 manages to secure their powerbase and puppet Speer while implementing their reforms, or Speer manages to secure his powerbase against the Go4 while still benefiting from their reforms.
That last route is the only one I'd consider to have a fighting chance against Russia in most scenarios.
- Location
- IN SPACE
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'd once more argue that regardless of leader Kemerovo is easily the third strongest military unifier and possibly jumps to second under Lydia. Your military gets a substantial number of buffs, you can easily reach spartan discipline and your economy is backed by the Siberian Plan. Despotist Samara is much hyped among the devs, but I find in practical terms it is far weaker than Kemerovo, and honestly kind of underwhelming compared to the hype.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Some France Details
Walker Of Chaos
Best/Worst Dynasty
- Location
- Sweden
That is a common misshearing of what was said regarding the "canon" (honestly people place way too much importance on that thing IMO). What was said was that the WRW2 happened, Russia advanced for a bit then things stalemated and a ceasefire occurred. It was only after that the OFN got involved because Germany threw itself towards them with open arms.
I'll admit, it's tough to keep track of all the Russian unifiers, especially the western ones. It's all Russian to me. Those with more unique names, identities, or cities are the only ones I remember. I think others may have that problem as well. Maybe that's partially why the real crazy ones are easier for people to remember. They're more over the top and memorable than Russian autocrat number whatever. The ex-Soviet states have brand recognition going for them too. Vyatka? Samara? Sverdlovsk? Krasnoyarsk? I know not who these people are. It also doesn't help that quite a few are doomed to seemingly always lose, so I only ever see a few expand beyond regional stage.
I think the comparison is apt. Speer's the ruler deradicalizing the country after its founder died, while implementing economic and political reforms, opening the country up diplomatically, without actually weakening the party's hold on the country. All while party hardliners are sidelined and eventually pushed out of power. In real life that eventually lead to Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. In TNO the result is a more stable and economically dynamic, but still authoritarian Germany. It's dropped the anti-Semitism and racism from official policy, but former slaves are still second class citizens and it's not about to issue any apology or compensation for the Holocaust. It carved the fat and bloat off the dysfunctional regime.
I don't know what it's dubbed in universe. Fascism with German Characteristics? Reformist National Socialism?
I think the comparison is apt. Speer's the ruler deradicalizing the country after its founder died, while implementing economic and political reforms, opening the country up diplomatically, without actually weakening the party's hold on the country. All while party hardliners are sidelined and eventually pushed out of power. In real life that eventually lead to Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. In TNO the result is a more stable and economically dynamic, but still authoritarian Germany. It's dropped the anti-Semitism and racism from official policy, but former slaves are still second class citizens and it's not about to issue any apology or compensation for the Holocaust. It carved the fat and bloat off the dysfunctional regime.
I don't know what it's dubbed in universe. Fascism with German Characteristics? Reformist National Socialism?
- Location
- somewhere on this dying planet
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What exactly did you find underwhelming about Bunyachenko and why do you believe he is way weaker than King Rurik?
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Technically, Sverdlovsk is one of the ex-Soviet states. It's one of the ones that can choose to either become authoritarian with the promise of restoring the Soviet Union later, or elect Boris Yeltsin
That said, I totally get it. There are a lot of names to remember. Vyatka is the Romanov state in the west - the one that isn't under house arrest. Samara is either the Nazi-collaborators or the ones who think Slavs are the superior race and want to adopt Nazi tactics. Don't remember which. Krasnoyarsk is the megacorp country that was given content in a recent patch. It is in Central Siberia.
Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
- Location
- Lost among fields of history
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Play Sverdlovsk.
I will stan for Sverdlovsk and blessed Comrade Rokossovsky.
Lady Insane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
Samara are the collaborators, although only one path keeps collaboration up in the unification stages (the most corrupt, far-right path). The megacorp country you are thinking of is Novosibirsk; it can go in a path that basically creates Putin's Russia, or one that veers away to reclaim some idealism (and with it, a measure of functional democracy). Krasnoyarsk is a military-run clique making promises of democratization eventually.Technically, Sverdlovsk is one of the ex-Soviet states. It's one of the ones that can choose to either become authoritarian with the promise of restoring the Soviet Union later, or elect Boris Yeltsin
That said, I totally get it. There are a lot of names to remember. Vyatka is the Romanov state in the west - the one that isn't under house arrest. Samara is either the Nazi-collaborators or the ones who think Slavs are the superior race and want to adopt Nazi tactics. Don't remember which. Krasnoyarsk is the megacorp country that was given content in a recent patch. It is in Central Siberia.
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
Samara are the collaborators.
"Slavs as master race" is the variant path (Hyperborea) for the Aryan Brotherhood (who start out as fanboys for the Nazis).
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Gotcha. Apologies for the misinformation.
Lady Insane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
Speaking of Krasnoyarsk, seems TWR has teased the (at least initial) focus tree for the Krasnoyarsk in its rework.
It would appear that there may be a path for Zhukov's clique to collapse to the Tuvans.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Have you played Speer? Because I could think of several reasons why the Deng Comparison does not work with Speer.
Hakazin
Serpent Admirer
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That is an incredible mischaracterization of what Speer's path entails. Speer isn't seeking to "deradicalize" the Reich by any means. Speer wants to use the Gang of Four to reform the German economy and military into a functional state, and to use their reformist credentials as a way of legitimizing German domestic and foreign policy, but at the end of the day, he's still fully committed to Nazism and all the horror it entails. His goal isn't to "deradicalize" the Nazi regime. If anything, his goal is to legitimize it to the world.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
Even more baffling are people who think Samara are the good guys by any measure of the term. No matter what path you take, Samara are objectively Nazi-collaborators that, at best, indirectly made life worse for Russians as a whole and contributed to hundreds of thousands of deaths. They're only marginally less scummy than the Aryan Brotherhood.
Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere
I think the basic idea of it is just them reforming something that was obviously failing into another thing that wasn't, and damn those that think they shouldn't. Though I guess the main difference is that Deng wasn't too concerned on making communism perfect, but Speer seemingly is in the game.