If Germany's political situation develops similarly to Russia's I fucking hope it gets a Putin analogue. Because after Putin, you have two flavors of borderline insane ultranationalists; one that would like to see a Russian Empire restored, and one that would like to see a Russian Empire restored but with Soviet aesthetics. No good options, just bad, awful and apocalyptically devastating.[Except that without the insecurity of Russia in the 1990's and still maintaining a considerable empire the move to an Putin like figure could take much less time.]
1. Yes, that was the inspiration for that paragraph. I was watching TV, hoping for something, when the people started to boo Ceaușescu and the live transmission was terminated. My father joined the anti-Communist protestors in the University Square shortly afterwards.1. Well that scene in Berlin where Hitler is unable to understand the growing hostility of the crowd to what he's saying reminds me a lot of the last day of Ceausecu's regime, when he faced a bitterly hostile crowd and was totally unable to comprehend that people were finally desperate and angry enough to stand up to him. It was helped in that case by the collapse of the wider Soviet empire, which gave them hope and an example and left the Romanian regime politically isolated. Whereas here, apart from less access to news from the wider world Germany is secure and the government is able to claim considerable successes. [Securing substantial territorial gainsas well as total security for Germany and its inner empire. Plus the promise of dramatic new technological successes, both militarily and non-miltary.] There is some comparison with the Soviet case in that fascist regimes elsewhere have fallen [Italy] or are falling [Japan] but neither of them were significant for the Germans as a whole and Italy was largely seen [rightly or wrongly] as a burden.
2. Adolphine has made some dramatic progress in realising changes need to be made and even if unwilling to accept it openly, that Hitler is at the heart of the problem. Whether its practical for Germany to simply have Hitler [and many of his party and military supporters] simply retired I don't know, although I suspect he will end up dying shortly. There is simply too much bad history with his actions and views and too many victims, even if most of the regime is going to end up being pardoned in some way. [His assassination could make matters even worse as he could end up being presented as a martyr by many of the ultra-nationalists].
3. I fear that Germany is far more likely to end up like Russia post the fall of the Soviet empire without a real chance to clear out the sewers of the last decade or so and the extreme nationalism that enable it. Except that without the insecurity of Russia in the 1990's and still maintaining a considerable empire the move to a Putin like figure could take even less time.
1. The most likely option is, in my opinion, some General(s). Yes, Speer is still around and he will appear again in the story.1. With Adolphine concluding that Hitler must go, and most of the prominent party leadership gone, who's the likely option in case Hitler actually steps down?
Is Speer still around? He's one of the few guys I'd trust to unfuck Germany's imploded economy without doubling down on Nazi savagery for good measure.
2. If Germany's political situation develops similarly to Russia's I fucking hope it gets a Putin analogue. Because after Putin, you have two flavors of borderline insane ultranationalists; one that would like to see a Russian Empire restored, and one that would like to see a Russian Empire restored but with Soviet aesthetics. No good options, just bad, awful and apocalyptically devastating.
3. Fuck, with the war officially over - I hope nobody thinks of asking for their MEFO bils to be paid right now. That's the last thing Germany needs right now.
Seems about right for that thickheaded blowhard.In France, there were widespread protests against the percieved betrayal of the Allies with occasional violence against British and American civilians, soldiers and diplomatic facilities. Charles de Gaulle's virulent three hours long speech inflamed the spirits even more and was condemned by both Truman and Churchill.
Look, just pull more of your future antics. With any luck he'll lose his shit and a second stroke puts him into permanent retirement.Damn! I am a bloody coward! Why can't I talk to Adolf and make him understand that it is for the best to just retire voluntarily!... I shall at least try... No, I can't. Oh, I'm such a pussy!
3. The mentions of "Slovakia" and "Czechia" implied the acceptance of the dissolution of Czechoslovakia but, apparently, not the annexation of the remaining Czech lands to Germany.
- to recognize the Governments of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia³ and Hungary as the legitimate representatives of their peoples;
4. The lack of any mention of "Croatia" seemed to imply that, unlike Slovakia, the Western Allies were not ready to recognize the seccession of Croatia from Yugoslavia.
Slovakia is recognized as a de jure independent country. To stop being a German Puppet, no referendum is needed but only a change of government possibly brought forward by free elections.I have a question regarding this. So they want Germany to have a referendum in czech, yet they dont ask for a referendum in Slovakia regarding the abolition of the German puppet nazi regime and rejoining czechoslovakia? or becoming democratically independent? or both? True that the Germans might not accept such a referendum in Slovakia, but at the same time, it's breeding resentment to have a slovak puppet regime which a large part of Slovaks see as a puppet and while they're asking for referendums, dont see the reason for it's exclusion. Especially when the Slovaks for the most part mainly withdrew from Czechoslovakia and formed a pro-german regime due to fears of a German annexation of them along with the czech part otherwise, and in this case that fear would no longer be as valid
True they're all likely to be influenced by Germany but currently the regime of Slovakia is a Nazi puppet regime so likely to be loyal to Hitler and is very unpopular among many Slovaks. As well the Slovak withdrawal from Czechoslovakia was under threat of invasion and so ulwithout it, to my knowledge it's questionable if the majority would want to try and unite with Czechia in a referendum or remain separateSlovakia is recognized as a de jure independent country. To stop being a German Puppet, no referendum is needed but only a change of government possibly brought forward by free elections.
However, the situation is more complicated than that. The Western Powers realize very well the geopolitical situation in which all countries under the Dome are guaranteed to be German Puppets in various degrees. Therefore, the kind of independence they are asking for Czechia is not what you have imagined but rather a Slovakia like status.
Let me draw a parallel here with the 1989 situation.True they're all likely to be influenced by Germany but currently the regime of Slovakia is a Nazi puppet regime so likely to be loyal to Hitler and is very unpopular among many Slovaks. As well the Slovak withdrawal from Czechoslovakia was under threat of invasion and so ulwithout it, to my knowledge it's questionable if the majority would want to try and unite with Czechia in a referendum or remain separate
Ah yeah that makes sense. And indeed the creation Ustashe was one of the worst of the puppet regimes if not the worst, luckily most serbs are now away for the Ustashe since once they're gone, if the serbs were inside, they'd probably be the leaders of the revolution against the UstasheLet me draw a parallel here with the 1989 situation.
[Simplistic view] The Soviet Union was surrounded by a string of Puppet States (the Eastern European Communist states, the Warsaw Pact members). When Gorbachev started to liberalize the Communist System in the Soviet Union, he let / asked his puppets to do the same. Some of them complied happily (Poland, Hungary), others under some pressure (Czechoslovakia, DDR, Bulgaria) while in Romania it turned rather ugly but with the same end result.
In the same vein, it is all but expected that, after the fall of the Nazi Regime, Germany will let / pressure its puppets to democratize or, at least, to remove from power the most unsavoury elements. And I'm not talking only about Slovakia here, whose regime was not the worse by any account, at least not compared with the Croatian Ustashe or the Hungarian Arrow Cross.
In conclusion: Of course that Germany's allies / puppets will get rid of their own Fascist regimes or, at least, democratize enough to be considered palatable.
How much would the ordinary German know about the declaration as opposed to what the regime told them about it?
- In Germany, the already widespread opinion that a regime change was desirable became even more justified and acquired a sense of urgency. With the vast majority of both the civilians and, more importantly, the Wehrmacht seriously disillusioned with Hitler and the Nazi propaganda and with no more war and fear of invasion, the days of the Nazi Regime were numbered. The only question was whether the regime change would be brought by a quick and relatively bloodless coup or by a devastating civil war.
This is a potential huge human disaster. Your talking about, even if talking only the smallest definition of 'ancient Greece territories' Greek occupying large areas of Turkey and what happens to millions of Turks in those territories. IT may be attractive to Stalin as a way of winning support in Greece and also in gaining control of the straits but it could well backfire. If Hitler and a few token figures are removed and a regime in Berlin that the west thinks they can risk trusting then they could well turn to supporting both loyalist Greeks, although the latter may be undermined, and deterring further Soviet expansion.
- In Greece, the Greek Communists received a huge gift which, more than any weapons or "volunteers", rapidly tipped the balance in their favour: Stalin announced that Constantinople, Smyrna and other ancient Greek territories will be returned to a Socialist, Democratic Greece.
- For Turkey, that meant imminent war with the Soviet colossus. Despite the Turkish desperate pleas for help, the Western Allies, not ready to fight the Soviets while Nazi Germany was still around, declined to issue any guarantees.
- For Japan, the Memorandum meant the end of any hope for a negotiated peace. Germany had abandoned them and the Americans had no intention to negotiate and would simply obliterate Japan with atomic bombs. The Emperor and the Peace Faction realized that surrender was the only option and began to plot a coup against the military who was holding them captive in a war which could spell the end of their country and people.
With Adolphine concluding that Hitler must go, and most of the prominent party leadership gone, who's the likely option in case Hitler actually steps down?
Is Speer still around? He's one of the few guys I'd trust to unfuck Germany's imploded economy without doubling down on Nazi savagery for good measure.
If Germany's political situation develops similarly to Russia's I fucking hope it gets a Putin analogue. Because after Putin, you have two flavors of borderline insane ultranationalists; one that would like to see a Russian Empire restored, and one that would like to see a Russian Empire restored but with Soviet aesthetics. No good options, just bad, awful and apocalyptically devastating.
Edit:
Fuck, with the war officially over - I hope nobody thinks of asking for their MEFO bils to be paid right now. That's the last thing Germany needs right now.
1. Opinion polls taken in the American Sector after the war revealed that up to 60% of the Germans had access to information from the West (mainly BBC, directly and indirectly from gossip) and almost 90% of those believed the BBC rather than Goebbels.1. How much would the ordinary German know about the declaration as opposed to what the regime told them about it?
2. This is a potential huge human disaster. Your talking about, even if talking only the smallest definition of 'ancient Greece territories' Greek occupying large areas of Turkey and what happens to millions of Turks in those territories. IT may be attractive to Stalin as a way of winning support in Greece and also in gaining control of the straits but it could well backfire. If Hitler and a few token figures are removed and a regime in Berlin that the west thinks they can risk trusting then they could well turn to supporting both loyalist Greeks, although the latter may be undermined, and deterring further Soviet expansion.
3. Could Stalin afford such a conflict? Even fighting the Turks will pose problems while in the event of western opposition they could face massive western firepower and a lot of ground forces in the not too distant future. Both sides lost millions of men in the dome. The west however have their people held prisoner and it would be in the interests of a new German government to release them quickly, both to curry favour with the west and make it easier for such intervention. Most of the Soviet forces inside the dome are already dead or most likely soon to be and even any survivors are unlikely to become available to the Red Army in the near future. Furthermore the allies have a lot of forces in the Med and they could be deployed fairly quickly in support of Turkey. While also the Soviets have been cut off from western L-L.
4. There is likely to be a stronger peace faction, although have they been warned about the actions of extremist OTL. The bombing attacks have already started that devastated much of the country and the noose around Japan's supply lines is tightening with food and other necessities becoming steadily more unobtainable. Although at least now, with the contention between Stalin and the west they know that a Soviet attack is highly unlikely. Your probably got a chance of an earlier and more successful Japanese surrender but still likely to see some fighting yet. Probably also, as OTL, inside Japan.
5. Also your probably very accurate about Adolpine's response to the situation. She knows something needs to be done but is probably unwilling to face up to Hitler, either because she can't face 'deserting him' or the probable violent reaction to her telling him to stand down. Also that she can't yet face the idea he may well need to be removed violently.
Most extremists will be surprisingly receptive to more moderate paths to solve things they consider to be problems. A big part of extremism is perceived helplessness, resulting in a desire to lash out against your opponents.
1. Opinion polls taken in the American Sector after the war revealed that up to 60% of the Germans had access to information from the West (mainly BBC, directly and indirectly from gossip) and almost 90% of those believed the BBC rather than Goebbels.
2. True, that could turn into a huge human disaster, even if we are not talking about "millions" of Turks. The whole population of Turkey was only about 18 million back then and Istanbul had only 800,000 people (yes, it increased that dramatically in the last 75 years).
That is Stalin's reasoning: "As long as the Western Powers are still at war with Germany, they cannot start a new war with the Soviet Union. Better hurry then, take over as much as I can before they sign the peace!"
Moreover, the public opinion from the UK and the USA will likely not accept to attack their former allies together with their former enemies. Not that soon. In fact, that was one of the main reasons in OTL why Operation Unthinkable was shelved (together with the fact that it was unwinnable, barring massive nuclear weapons use).
3. See above. Neither the Germans nor the Poles are going to kill Soviet PoWs (in the case of the Germans, not anymore). Some may still be killed in action in Poland but millions will remain PoWs for the foreseeable future.
4. Japan really has no other chance besides surrendering (with a few concessions to save face a little). The sooner the better, for everybody but especially for them.
5. Adolphine has to tread a fine line here. She is not completely invulnerable. She is not out of danger. Hitler is crazy. If forced, he may beat or even kill her, then kill himself, Germany be damned! In OTL, he wanted to destroy Germany anyway and only Speer saved a little by disregarding his orders. Hitler said that the Germans did not deserve to live because they failed him. Yes, he was totally unhinged in his last weeks.
Most extremists will be surprisingly receptive to more moderate paths to solve things they consider to be problems. A big part of extremism is perceived helplessness, resulting in a desire to lash out against your opponents.
Putin might be bullying his smaller neighbors, but with the radicals actually at the helm it'd be worse.
1. Correct but, as I have already said, there were minor unauthorized demonstrations in Nazi Germany in OTL 1944-1945 and there was no significant crackdown, on the contrary, Hitler relented and gave them what they were asking for.1. Note that that's up to, which suggests its the highest figure occurring in one of a number of polls. Also Germany now has peace and security which the regime is claiming credit for and given the large secret police establishment its going to take some very brave people to actually openly oppose the regime and hope that others will follow them. OTL some army units and commanders were willing to surrender to avoid further death and destruction but that was with the successful western allied forces at the gate. TTL there is no such hope of a safe way out.
2. At the very least we're talking about the region around the Straits, including Istanbul and possibly other cities in NW Anatolia plus the Smyrna region so that's probably at least a couple of million. If you include other areas that had a long period of Greek settlement prior to the ~1920 ethnic cleansing such as the Pontiac coast region you could see that figure rising.
3. Normally no but that assumed that the Soviets weren't on an expansionist rampage of their won, which is effectively what's happening with Turkey and also I suspect Stalin is going to be less than willing to withdrawal from his occupation zone in N Iran.
4. You will probably have a very large number killed in the fighting especially given the desperate nature of the fighting and that all sides know not to expect much if any mercy. Also if any surrender how are they going to be fed and housed given the state of the region, repeated devasted by heavy fighting. Don't forget that Germany and the SU are still at war and the bulk of the former state still views the Slavs very much as sub-human. Similarly do you think their given up the slave labourers that so much of the economy now depends on? They will come under pressure given the suggested large scale demoblisation of the forces but a lot of business interests have a vested interest in cheap labour and unlike those from the western empire the eastern ones are unlikely to be released outside the dome.
5. Very true but there are a lot of fanatics there so its not going to be easy. Although one thing that will make things slightly better for Japan, if the allies relax their 1894 dateline is that Japan, without a Soviet dow on them and with Stalin becoming increasingly unpopular in the west, may well keep the Kurils and S Sakhalin, which they currently hold.
6. Yes Hitler was that deranged. I suspect the major factor however is that Adolphine psychologically is still rather unwilling to give up on the dreams she was brought up on as its a hell of a step to largely reject them. Especially since it would also means the loss of the new family she so deeply desired. This will change over time and is changing pretty rapidly but I would suggest that's the major driver in her continued believe that a non-violent solution would be possible to the 'Hitler problem' at the moment.
7. Sarawak will appear several times in this story.7. With chapter 50 one unexpected result for the Americans is that the Brooke dynasty in Sarawak might survive as it was very popular there, at least for a while. [There were some doubts over the succession as Charles Vyner Brooke, the current raja, was elderly and without a male heir of his own while he was something estranged from his brother and nephew.]
8. Although I doubt that Japan would particularly push for such independence in many areas as there is no incentive for them, other than possibly as a bargaining condition for things they valued as more important. I.e. basically holding onto as much territory, resources and self-government as they can themselves. With the exception of a few people, generally at low levels in the regime, the co-prosperity sphere and the argument of Asia for the Asians was simply propaganda to excuse their own conquests. The US would find the idea inviting because of their opposition to direct imperialism but Japan has no reason to make more than token support for such moves.
9. Presuming the peace comes through OK it could make a big different in the region. Without direct Soviet intervention, which seems highly unlikely at the moment, Korean is likely to be united under a pro-American [if not necessarily that democratic] government. Also Mao's people are unlikely to get control of Manchuria and its resources which was very important to them in the civil war. You are likely to still see a messy situation there, especially if Stalin does start serious support for Mao, which is likely to last longer than the OTL civil war but could go in any one of a number of ways.