pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hi, we have personal shields. Just developed them last year. Any chance you'll trade us all of the advancements you've made in ship design over the last 40 years with us?
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Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest
Below our level of abstraction.
Assume that if it's sensible, it's already in use.
In this case, I doubt a ship is cheaper than simply throwing up an environment dome.
Yeah, that doesn't work at all.
You don't take someone's stuff then declare that they donated it and expect them to grin and bear it.
That's possibly even more insulting than simply stealing it and not saying anything.
I'm certainly not currently convinced the Quarian state is worth undue contortions.
But this just makes unnecessary enemies.
Layered cover stories.
Initial cover story being that we independently invented it in one of our military RnD programs.
Any similarities being due to incorporating shit they released to us in order for us to support their fleet.
We did update our fleet to Citadel-tech levels before the Quarians came, so I know we have a naval RnD program going. It's not implausible
Cover story under that being reverse-engineered insights from the orbital shipyard we took from the lystheni, along with other shit we dug up.
Again, we are currently fighting an automated defense system on Amalinya, so it's also plausible that we did come across stuff that we have been studying for insights.
Cover story under THAT being actual quarian files recovered from lystheni espionage files.
Basically, layer the entire thing like an onion.
- Location
- Sydney
[X][PM] Campaign as normal. Ti'ord has gathered substantial support, but not nearly enough to threaten you as things stand.
[X][POLICY] No, a focus on a well-connected and -developed mining network can only be to your benefit at the moment.
[X][COLONIES] No, this sets a poor precedent. The FDO will retain a limited remit of space-based development, and you will develop Nimal Pak at your leisure.
[X][POLICY] No, a focus on a well-connected and -developed mining network can only be to your benefit at the moment.
[X][COLONIES] No, this sets a poor precedent. The FDO will retain a limited remit of space-based development, and you will develop Nimal Pak at your leisure.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
You mean like an ogre?
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Definitely like a cake, people are more likely to swallow cake than onions or ogres.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That might be seen as acting in bad faith. Sure we didn't get or steal the info from them, but we got it from people who did and didn't turn it over to our nominal allies.
Otherwise, ya. Layer that shit like mommas casserole.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Mmmmm, pastries.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This is the best derail in history.
Valkur
The True Valkyria, Valkur!
- Location
- Fólkvangr
@PoptartProdigy
This Knight of Justice would like to write about Mira T'vael's very unjust opponent! But forgets her name because as a Knight she has taken many blows to her head which cost her brain cells!
Luckily mien face has beuty to spare to use in HOLY JUSTICE!
JUSTICE HOE!
This Knight of Justice would like to write about Mira T'vael's very unjust opponent! But forgets her name because as a Knight she has taken many blows to her head which cost her brain cells!
Luckily mien face has beuty to spare to use in HOLY JUSTICE!
JUSTICE HOE!
- Location
- Somewhere near L1... I think
This is not the baked goods thread.
But we could say that the advances are incremental upgrades and refinements when really we developed the advances as part of our naval R&D program which hides that we reverse engineered the advances from the Precursor Ruins which is a cover for us getting the designs from the Lystheni which is a cover for us getting the designs on accident because of a careless technician which is a occludes the fact that we got the designs from a dock worker repairing the quarian ships which hides the story about just how much Kurik slept around with the engineering division which hides the notion we sliced into their network which hides the fact most of the advances were more of a case of 'does this look right?'
But we could say that the advances are incremental upgrades and refinements when really we developed the advances as part of our naval R&D program which hides that we reverse engineered the advances from the Precursor Ruins which is a cover for us getting the designs from the Lystheni which is a cover for us getting the designs on accident because of a careless technician which is a occludes the fact that we got the designs from a dock worker repairing the quarian ships which hides the story about just how much Kurik slept around with the engineering division which hides the notion we sliced into their network which hides the fact most of the advances were more of a case of 'does this look right?'
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's the recipe alright.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
Remember, some of the data we pukled would be doctrine updates. And as we literally just revamped our military to take advantage of our new doctrine, suddenly having the quarians doctrine data is much harder to explain than tech etc.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We could hold off on introducing those, feed Beshkar the data, and have him work out hopefully-unrecognizable implementations in the context of our overall doctrine? After all, assuming Rannoch isn't using Raiding Doctrine, we'd probably have to do some work adapting their ideas to apply to it anyway.
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
Rannoch uses Massalian Doctrine, which is also known as the Territory Defense Doctrine.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think it is very risky and for precisely that reason is a bad idea. We don't need the technology so desperately that it's worth disrupting our inter-allied coordination with a fleet that represents a sizeable fraction of our total force and ALL our genuinely available reserve forces (as far as I can tell) that aren't locked down doing something else most of the time.
It's a pity we can't use the "just ask the admiral" option with a Double Down and other steps taken to maximize odds of success, but we already failed that roll once under terms that strongly suggest it can't be done again or would have a nigh-impossible DC.
Furthermore, as noted, we do not need the potential for massive diplomatic shit with the quarians postwar. Sure, it might not be a problem, but it very, very well might, and we're going to have enough trouble establishing ourselves as an independent power (as seems to be the quest goal) without a nominally Citadel-affiliated species specifically able to press claims against us for robbing them during the war.
I am strongly against any such proposal because I don't think it's necessary or proper. It's the kind of audacious gamble that works much better in fiction against cardboard cutout characters whose real purpose in the narrative is to accede to the protagonist's will. And I don't think Poptart plays their NPCs that way.
Maybe. That's why it's literally the last layer of the onion.
My preferred cover story is basically to say that we came up with much of this independently.
Obfuscate some as coming from xenotech discoveries, but most of it being from a topsecret skunkworks. We just couldn't afford the time or expense to implement all their ideas and innovations, not when the Rachni were literally battering our gates down, and our economy was being strangled by indigenous corruption.
It even makes sense from a military standpoint.
Better a full battle fleet that's using lastgen Citadel tech than a cutting edge fleet that is drastically understrength.
Just read Arthur C. Clarke's Superiority.
Superiority (short story) - Wikipedia
Short Story - Superiority - by Arthur C. Clarke
And it's not like there isn't precedent; the first jet engines were patented in 1930, and the US ignored Goddard's rocketry work for most of the 30s.
Doctrine is literally the easiest thing to work up.
We created Beshkarian Doctrine in isolation, using entirely homegrown talent and the fruits of fifteen years of unsupported warfare against the Rachni, and it still took us several years to roll it out into full implementation in the navy.
That we have had the time to work up updates is not exactly incredible.
It's entirely plausible that we have other things we have cooked up in wargames and simulations, but we didn't think were ready for primetime, whether because it was still in testing, or we weren't comfortable with our navy's technical ability to pull it off, or in the training of our spacers. Or their educational level and expertise.
Tech and hardware advancements is harder to explain. It usually is.
But that can be largely accounted for by us being too poor and too desperate to implement some of the theories that our naval RnD came up with. And our industry just not being efficient enough to countenance exploring some of the changes we
Now that we have a full battle fleet worked up, backed up by a raiding fleet, the Quarian 3RWF, and multiple military bases capable of handling ship maintenance while the major ship dockyards are undergoing upgrades? We have some breathing room.
Enough to make it possible to consider implementing wholesale industrial and technological changes that weren't possible before.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For the record, I ran the military expansion stopgap past my eco professor with the caveats of a lack of further military industrial expansion and all that.
Her recommendation for the best possible implementation was making the army build public works and infrastructure like china, but her overall opinion was that it was a bad idea, mainly due to veteran support and the like.
I don't remember our particular policy there, but overall she said it was highly likely this would hurt in the long term much more than it help in the short term.
With that reasoning:
[X][BILL] Veto for this one. Bill rejected. Army does not expand.
Her recommendation for the best possible implementation was making the army build public works and infrastructure like china, but her overall opinion was that it was a bad idea, mainly due to veteran support and the like.
I don't remember our particular policy there, but overall she said it was highly likely this would hurt in the long term much more than it help in the short term.
With that reasoning:
[X][BILL] Veto for this one. Bill rejected. Army does not expand.
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean...that's explicitly acknowledged as part of the option:
The point is that our short-term situation is bad enough that trading long-term loss for lesser but immediate gains may be worthwhile.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And my teacher was of the opinion that the long term costs were too costly and short term benefits too few.
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
To add to what Wiadi said, I'd note that our short-term problems are severe, and require immediate, drastic action. The long-term problems that this bill could present, however, can be largely predicted ahead of time. This doesn't mean that they won't be problems, but it does mean that we can plan for them.