Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest
Assuming we go full-throttle on building new, better-armored and reengined capitals, we have quite a few options for older ships.
1) We can retain them where they are, and adjust our fleet tactics for a new and more capital-heavy force composition.
2) Transfer older ships to one or two of the raiding fleets and throw in some more new builds at them, reforming said raiding fleets into line fleets (admittedly, something of a temporary measure).
3) Form new dedicated squadrons of capitals with very light subcapital support, with the intention to use them as a tool to qualitatively reinforce someplace without throwing an entire fleet at it.
4) Just mothball them.
5) Finally, gift or sell those ships. Could be a nice way to make Frontier Confederacy a bigger player in TA if they can boast of having a proper battle fleet of their own.
Alternatively, could be used to butter up NDL or NIC border Region... Or we could throw all the old capitals at Jondam and watch them bankrupt themselves fleshing out and running a fleet.
We did just expand our shipbuilding facilities in order to support four fleets instead of three.
And at the very least, we can pull the power systems and replace them with the new Yulair hotness, either increasing available power to kinetic barriers and guns, or shrinking the size and tonnage of the power systems and using the mass budget and volume for other things.
The real question IMO is whether we can afford it.
-Intrigue is her dump stat.
-True.
But if they were going to do that, I suspect it would already have happened. Or the Racial Council thing would still exist. Canonical salarian society is built around neofeudal bonds between dalatrasses and their progeny, and their progeny's progeny and so on.
If salarian firebrands are disrupting political alliances that dalatrasses favor, it points to a further weakening on dalatrass social influence.
Which might explain the insecurity.
Not really a priority atm.
Should be done, but there's wolves at the gates.
EDIT
Yeah. They're all gonna die. Or worse.
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Just to replace the powerplant we'd need to more or less disassemble the ship in question; We'd also need to replace power distribution network.
Then there're the new guns, new and more power-hungry sensors, new engines, new armour, internal structure in need of reinforcement... It'd be easier to name what wouldn't be replaced, in full or in part - so, if it's a new ship in all but name, why bother with retaining a few choice bits of the old ship?
It's not 40k, building capitals is cheaper and faster than upgrading older ones.
- Location
- Italy
yeah. which leaves us with a pretty simple decision
1)mothball them
2)gift/sell them to other terminus polities (there probably IS some polity that can support more ships
3)dismantle/recycle them
4)..some of them might be good enough to give to the police, especially the smaller ones?
Reserve fleets. Patrol. Secondary asignments. They are still good, semi-modern ships, and we are in war.
Why are you assuming a requirement to disassemble the ship to replace a power plant?
You are assuming that there werent actual allowances made for follow-on upgrades when the ship was being built in wartime?
You know, like how in modern ships a SWaP-C allowance is standard and gas turbines are essentially modular installations.
I dont think replacing the power distribution network is necessary in a setting with superconductors either(yes, we're throwing fusion power around).
Or that we need to implement a new spinal gun in a refit instead of just installing new shields and sensors.
There is certainly nothing to suggest at the moment that building new ships is faster than upgrading old ones.
Arguably installing parts built elsewhere is going to be significantly faster than building a ship and ship's hull from scratch.
It might not be as good as a newbuild design incorporating all the changes and improvements.
But it will be better than the old ship.
And thats what counts.
I imagine it's theoretically possible, but likely not practical. Eezo is a pretty rare substance, and there are always more uses for it.
- Pronouns
- he/him
well it would allow to put enormous amount of energie in a laser shot without risquing the lens cracking so
- Location
- Poland
Quick question. Is there a map for this quest anywhere? I remember seeing one but its been a while and I can't find it.
Status screen, Maps tab.
Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest Sci-Fi
Status Screen Polity: Attican Commonwealth Capital: Virmire, Sentry Omega Leader Title: Prime Minister Government: Elective Dictatorship Population: Present Population: 9,285,325,299 (5,210,567,200 Salarian [~56%], 2,115,408,750 Batarian [~23%], 1,092,104,933 Asari [~12%], 867,244,416 Volus...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
- Location
- Poland
KhazintheDark
May or may not be insane...
- Location
- Not where you are. Probably.
No it wouldn't... Lens crack due to heating because they have differant optical properties when compared to the medium the laser is moving through. This causes energy to change to heat at the boundaries. Eezo isn't going to stop a lens from getting hotter.
- Pronouns
- he/him
well if it's gravity lens there isn't realy a lens there just gravity bending the light so there is nothing to heat
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Modern ships are built in a different environment.
For one, modern ships are built in a much smaller series; Even United States with their humongous navies boasts only of several hundred hulls, most of which take several years to build, and most of the classes are single-digit or low double-digit in size, with a few exceptions.
The less said about other navies IRL, the better.
In such a position, when the ship has to serve at least 20 years, and might last 60 in the ranks, modularity and room for modernization are very much necessary.
However, in quest, almost every navy - and, in particular, Virmire's navy - is very much not a peacetime navy; In TTL's case, capability to quickly replace lost hulls is far more important than the ability to fit a decade into the future stuff onto a decade-old hull.
Then, you have to consider build-times and class sizes; Even battlecruisers take less than a year to build, dreadnaughts are not likely to take substantially more, and even the biggest ships of ours are built at least in low double-digits - and that's the most expensive ships that are protected quite literally at the cost of cheaper ones.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have hundreds to thousands of corvettes and frigates.
At these numbers, I wouldn't assume that it is very easy or very cheap (or, for that matter, very quick) to modernize the ships that are very likely to have been optimised for last decade's combat on the cheap at the expense of modernisation potential.
After all, it doesn't make sense to leave a lot of (quite expensive) room for modernisation in a class when many ships of said class likely wouldn't survive to see that modernization.
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- Location
- Earth
Not really, there's a lull in the fighting right now so we've got the perfect chance to build up and get our internal issues all sorted out so that we're stronger and more stable when the war heats up again. Also makes it a good time to upgrade the fleet since we don't need literally every ship to keep us alive. We need to think a bit longer term since we're not stuck jumping from crisis to crisis.
Modularity is as much about ease of construction and repair, as it is about upgradeability.
If you build a ship to be easy to repair, so you can yank damaged internal components or replace damaged structural sections, you have most if not all of the conditions necessary for it to be easy to upgrade.
And we know thats how ships are designed, since we did that for the Quarian fleet. And IIRC, thats how we build our defensive fortresses.
And the attrition rates among Citadel/Terminus polities are not the same as those among the Rachni.
Virmire specifically operated battlecruisers for over a decade and half before losing one.
The massacre at Horsehead Nebula a couple turns ago was very much atypical for the Citadel, not the norm.
- Location
- the Moon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I imagine how complicated the power source/eezo core is, and how protected it is makes a big difference. If we take an Iowa's citadel 'all or nothing' armor, then swapping out the armor should be relatively straight forward, but putting in the upgraded power sources in would be a pain because you need to compromise the citadel, swap the power source, then make sure you put the citadel back how it was.
Modularity is tangential to the issue of rebuilds vs newbuilds.
With our class sizes and build times, and total war being the name of the game, ships and modules are very likely to be built with a lot of sacrifices on the altar of cost efficiency, and they're likely to be extremely optimized. Meaning little modernization potential.
And increase in gross power production by a third is most assuredly beyond that potential. To make good use of increase in power, you'd need to replace and upgrade most of the ship, as original components either wouldn't get much out of "more power", or would even be unduly stressed.
And if you have to replace most of the ship for the refit to make sense, you might as well go for new builds - particularly as newbuilds are net+ for ships, which is better than net0 for rebuilds; Even if we ourselves can't use all the ships we build, there's a whole TA of customers who likely would take gently-used last-gen ships if offered at an appropriate price.
Canon Omake: Eletania AAR
THIS DOCUMENT IS CLASSIFIED
UNCLASSIFIED
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
ARMY BOARD ON THE REVIEW OF DOCTRINE AND EQUIPMENT BRIEF
ARMY REPORT ON THE READINESS AND CAPACITY OF VIRMIREAN SURFACE FORCES TO ENGAGE IN COMBAT WITH ENTRENCHED RACHNI SURFACE FORCES
SANITATION 01.11.512 GS
APPROVAL 09.12.512 GS
RELEASED 10.12.512 GS
I. ABSTRACT
Pursuant of Army Directive C-23.01.512-AR this board has reviewed and analyzed the offensive and defensive actions during OPERATION LIGHTNING STRIKE (OLS), OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER I (ORT I), OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER II (ORT II), OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER III (ORT III), OPERATION FOX HUNT (OFH), OPERATION LIGHTS OUT (OLO), OPERATION JAILBREAK (OJB), OPERATION SUNKEN CITY (OSC), OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE I (OIR I), and OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE II (OIR II). In cooperation with the Army Branch of Training and Doctrine (TRADOC), the Army Branch of Ordnance and Equipment (ORDEPT), Army Branch of Logistics and Sustainment (LOGSUS), and Army Branch of Warfare and Command (WARCOM) this Army Board on the Review of Doctrine and Equipment has collated the After Action Reports and Combat Analytics of the above referenced operations to render unto the Office of the Minister of War recommendations and a proposed course of action to rectify identified deficiencies in the Army of Virmire.
II. INTRODUCTION
By order of the Minister of War Toral K'Sharr at the behest of Prime Minister Mira T'Vael under Army Directive C-23.01.512-AR this Army Board on the Review of Doctrine and Equipment has been convened. The objective of this Board and cooperating institutions is to identify deficiencies in the natural doctrine and equipment of the Army of Virmire and its components. To accomplish this task, over the course of the past year this Board and cooperating institutions have compiled analytics, equipment performance data, requests by officers and enlisted personnel, and general after action reports. Through the analysis of these documents, this Board has identified several critical deficiencies in the logistical capacity, warfighting capability, and protective equipment of the Army of Virmire.
III. SUMMARY OF ACTION
OPERATION LIGHTNING STRIKE (OLS), or the Eletania Campaign, on AB-1.3, commonly known as Eletania, commenced on 06.03.508 at 0638 Virmire Standard Time (VST). The primary objective of OPERATION LIGHTNING STRIKE (OLS) was the destruction of Rachni forces for the purpose of improving security in rear areas. OLS can be subdivided into three separate phases of engagement. These are: Orbital Bombardment and Target Identification, Primary Ground Operations, and Clean-up and Security Operations.
OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER I (ORT I), OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER II (ORT II), and OPERATION FOX HUNT (OFH) constitute the orbital bombardment and target identification phase of OLS. Beginning on 06.03.508 at 0638 VST elements of the 1st Battle Fleet under the command of Admiral Kasha Yi'hun began general orbit to surface bombardment of structures identified to be of Rachni construction via orbital imagery. Under cover of orbital suppression of Rachni surface assets 1-10th Battalion Covert Action Group (1-10 CAG) landed and began surface scouting of locations suspected to contain hardened Rachni facilities under OPERATION FOX HUNT (OFH). 1-10th Battalion sustained approximately a forty percent casualty rate in the course of OFH. 1-10th Battalion identified and marked eight hundred and forty-nine concealed positions and four hundred and sixty-two hardened facilities, eighty-nine percent (89%) of which required Battlecruiser or Dreadnought caliber weapons to penetrate and damage from orbit. 1-10th Battalion identified the approximate locations of three hundred and twenty-one Rachni operational bases and resupply points, but failed to isolate and mark them for orbital bombardment. It is believed that anywhere from twenty-five percent to fifty percent of these facilities were successfully destroyed by area saturation bombardment. On 08.04.508 1-10th Battalion was withdrawn from the surface of Eletania. It was during this stage of operations that Virmirean forces first encountered Form 4 Rachni, colloquially known as Warriors or Elites.
Due to patrol and garrison obligations, on 09.04.508 beginning at 0900 VST 1st Battle Fleet withdrew from orbit around Eletania. During the ten hour period between the departure of the 1st Battle Fleet and arrival of 1st Raiding Fleet under the command of Admiral Hiral Beshkar, 1-10th Battalion observed rapid recovery and resupply operations conducted by Rachni forces beginning approximately six hours after 1st Battle Fleet had completely exited orbit of Eletania. The arrival of 1st Raiding Fleet to continue orbital bombardment in place of 1st Battle Fleet appears to have taken the Rachni off guard as many of their convoys and personnel were in unsheltered or unhardened areas upon resumption of bombardment. It is estimated that Rachni losses due to this error were between one million and two million tons of construction and war materials and between two hundred thousand and three hundred thousand Form 2 Workers and between twenty thousand and fifty thousand Form 3 and Form 4 Soldier and Warrior forms.
On 20.04.508 at 1200 VST, twenty Mark XXXVII EMP devices were initiated in orbit of Eletania. Subsequently, the 1st Army Corps began large scale landing operations with heavy orbital support from 1st Raiding Fleet to clear and establish landing zones for the second wave of Army ground forces and supporting Marine detachments. The 1st Army Corps sustained significant casualties in the course of OPERATION LIGHTS OUT (OLO) due to the presence of previously unidentified anti-air emplacements and swift enemy QRF response. Twenty-four hours after the initial landings by the 1st Army Corps, twenty primary landing zones were deemed secured and forward elements of the 1st Army Group under the command of General Grishak Valar began landing operations to reinforce the 1st and 2nd Marine Divisions as they were engaged in deep strike missions. The second and third wave of 1st Army Group soldiers would come twenty-four hours and seventy-two hours later respectively. By 25.04.508, Virmire had approximately three million armed services personnel on Eletania and 1st Army Group LOGSUS personnel had constructed the surface support infrastructure necessary to sustain current operations. General Valar ordered the beginning of the general offensive on 27.04.508 with the landings of the 2nd and 3rd Army Groups along with reinforcements for 1st Army Group.
OPERATION JAILBREAK (OJB) and OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER III (ORT III) commenced on 30.04.508 with combined orbital and surface bombardment of identified and suspected entrenched Rachni positions. The primary focus of this bombardment was to disrupt the Rachni formations encircling the primary landing zones and the destruction of Rachni surface artillery. Estimates of the effectiveness of this bombardment vary greatly, however orbital bombardment was successful in dispersing massing formations of Rachni. 1st Army Group initially began OJB by attacking in all directions expanding the area available for the disembarkation, housing, and support of further surface forces. Once the area for the primary landing zones was deemed sufficient, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Army Groups began targeted offensive pushes toward the Rachni's refinement and industrial centers nearest each primary landing zone.
Due to rough terrain, lack of infrastructure beyond simple dirt roads, and the unpredictability of Rachni attacks, progress was limited to a maximum of 5 km per day on foot. Air transportation assets were of limited utility during these offensives due to massed enemy anti-aircraft fire. Once an area was cleared of conventional Rachni resistance, forces were regularly rotated for rest and resupply through air transport. Using this rotation and leapfrogging method, on 26.06.508 all ground forces had successfully reached all target sites. Refining Facility 5 was the first encounter by Virmirean Army forces with Rachni armored fighting vehicles (AFVs). These vehicles proved somewhat difficult to disable or destroy with the organic weapons found at the squad level and often had to be engaged by supporting artillery or via a flanking maneuver to place demolition charges. As of 26.06.508, Virmirean Army personnel actively operating on AB-1.3 totalled approximately one hundred thirty-four million sapients with casualties due to enemy action standing at approximately three and a half million sapients. Estimated losses for the Rachni as of 26.06.508 incurred since 06.03.508 is projected at six and a half million as of 03.04.512 by the Army Branch of Warfare and Command.
OPERATION SUNKEN CITY (OSC) commenced on 01.07.508 with the goal of seizing all surviving Rachni resourcing, housing, and production facilities. With the majority of the remaining Rachni surface infrastructure either captured or destroyed, this phase of operations took place in the subterranean cities and tunnel networks the Rachni had constructed. Initial progress was slow and casualty rates spiked as Form 2 Workers employed suicide tactics in combination with their demonstrated burrowing ability to flank and perform grievous injury to Virmirean forces. Tunnel fighting also proved difficult to coordinate as the many direction changes in the tunnels caused significant degradation of traditional radio communications. In this phase of operations, enemy armored assets proved both significantly easier and in some ways more difficult to neutralize as they lacked space to maneuver, however this was also true for our forces. This was remediated by the introduction of the MLC-3 Heavy Support Weapon which was capable of neutralizing enemy armor where flanking was infeasible.
Operations continued and with concentrated assaults three of the surviving Rachni operations centers were captured by 14.10.508. It was noted that with the neutralization of Form 4 Warriors often found in these locations that local command and coordination of Form 2 and Form 3 Rachni would rapidly degrade. With this noted, CAG forces would be deployed ahead of regular Army forces to target apparent field commanders in addition to their previous duties of scouting and sabotage. These strategies proved highly effective and by 14.11.508 Rachni strategic movement had collapsed completely with the fall of eight primary facilities. During this latter period of operations there was a notable drop in both casualties as Rachni forces suffered command degradation even at the tactical level.
With the death of the presumed last Rachni commander on AB-1.3 during an attempted mass night attack on 16.11.508 all semblance of command had broken down among Rachni forces to the point that groups of Form 2 and Form 3 Rachni who were geographically isolated from each other could work at cross purposes to each other. With the confirmation of the destruction of the last mass force of Rachni on AB-1.3 following sustained orbital bombardment and deployment of thermobaric weapons, OPERATION SUNKEN CITY (OSC) was declared completed on 29.12.508.
OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE I (OIR I) and OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE II (OIR II) are the names given to the closing operations of OPERATION LIGHTNING STRIKE (OLS). OIR I commenced immediately upon the conclusion of OPERATION SUNKEN CITY (OSC) and consists of the clean-up phase of operations on Eletania. With the total collapse of effective command and control among Rachni forces on Eletania Virmirean Army forces enjoyed significant tactical and strategic advantages over the residual enemy forces. During this time the wide scale use of optical and seismographic decoys proved extremely effective with nearby Rachni holdouts regularly attacking these decoys in an uncoordinated manner. During these assaults, the area would be saturated by surface artillery and orbital support fire before the origin point of the attacking forces would be identified and saturated.
OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE II (OIR II) commenced at the general withdrawal of the 2nd through 12th and 14th through 40th Army Groups from Eletania and the establishment of Fort Overlook and Fort Searchlight as long term operation and suppression bases on the planetary surface for the 1st and 13th Army Groups. Due to regular patrols and survey sweeps no major military incidents have occurred on Eletania since 05.03.510. It is currently projected that the Rachni presence on Eletania will be fully neutralized by 515 GS with a final security date of 520 GS.
END INITIAL REPORT AND SUMMARY OF ACTION
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Canon! Glad to see it coming out!
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Fortunately we are in an excellent position to escalate our raiding tactics.
- Location
- A beautiful new land, at once alien and familiar.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Seems like the CAG does good work, but suffers a bad case of squishy-itis.
Seems like better stealth and survival capabilities for them could be an area of high-growth-potential.
Is active-camo extant at this point? What sort of senses and technology do the Rachni rely on most? Would it be possible to produce some sort of pheremone-like expressor that hides our operatives presence?
Thoughts?
We're talking about the fusion plant(s) and the propulsion and maneuvering thrusters, not the eezo core.
I cant speak on how easy or hard it is to open up the armor belt of a capital, since Im not even sure what the hull is made of; could well be some carbon weave polymer, or could still be metals.
And thats assuming the ship isnt literally designed for drop-in upgrades.
I mean, its worth remembering that its canonical that the Quarians retrofitted dreadnought-scale spinal guns into their liveships.
Without a shipyard.
No it isnt.
When you build something to be easy to replace in the event of battle damage, its just as easy to plug in a latter generation component with the same form factor, particularly if you have been planning ahead. The same if you plan ahead for changes in the arms race of a long war.
For RL examples, I will point at the Fletcher-class destroyer, and the difference between their starting armament suite when the US entered World War 2, their armament suite at the end of the war, and their loadout in the Korean War five years later. Or the Essex-class of fleet carriers, and their progressive modification throughout the war. USS Intrepid for example allegedly added two deck catapults, eight quad 40mm AA, twenty one additional 20mm mounts, an enlarged flag bridge, and two new radar installations in its two years of WW2 service.
The US Navy's contractor for its latest frigate class quite literally claims the ability for a drop-in upgrade of installed generating capacity by a third, from 4x3MW generators to 4x4MW generators, in the event that its needed.
So no, drawing from RL terrestrial naval experience, I dont agree.
Not at all. There are different bottlenecks in shipbuilding. You can only produce so many ship hulls at a time; only so many slipyards rated for a particular class, so many warship-qualified construction workers capable of working so many hours at a time in orbit, so much hull-quality steel/buckmintsterfullerene avalaible at a time et cetera.
Meantime, a lot of ship components like better computers, better sensors, more efficient shield emitters and secondary weapons are going to be literally coming off assembly lines or out of stockpiles before being spacelifted to the applicable shipyards. In part because they are the same components that go into a lot of our fortresses.
And the people involved in installing the innards of new ships can just as well be busy with the refits while new ship hulls are being built.