Voting is open
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest | Page 463 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 11575-11674]
##### NetTally 1.9.8

[X]Plan Steamroller
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 21

[X] Plan Hard Line part 2
-[X]Demands
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 12

[X] Plan Opening Salvo
-[X]Demands
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 3

[X] Plan One Step At A Time edit
-[x]Demands
--[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
-[x] Leverage
--[x] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
--[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
-[x] Concessions
--[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF)
No. of Votes: 1

--[X] A general withdrawal of militaryforces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 1

-[X] Start laughing
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 35

[X]Plan Steamroller
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).

Our winner! Vote closed.
 
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest | Page 463 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 11575-11674]
##### NetTally 1.9.8

[X]Plan Steamroller
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 21

[X] Plan Hard Line part 2
-[X]Demands
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 12

[X] Plan Opening Salvo
-[X]Demands
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 3

[X] Plan One Step At A Time edit
-[x]Demands
--[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
-[x] Leverage
--[x] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
--[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
-[x] Concessions
--[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF)
No. of Votes: 1

--[X] A general withdrawal of militaryforces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
No. of Votes: 1

-[X] Start laughing
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 35

[X]Plan Steamroller
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).

Our winner! Vote closed.

...So no carrot, if they do everything we say we'll just take away the stick. Well if we wanted them to start the war instead of us this is the way to do it. Unless they agree so they have time to get things into position to put a knife in our back at the worst possible moment.
 
...So no carrot, if they do everything we say we'll just take away the stick. Well if we wanted them to start the war instead of us this is the way to do it. Unless they agree so they have time to get things into position to put a knife in our back at the worst possible moment.

we essentially can't trust them as an independent power. So one way or another they are walking out this as a vassal state.
 
...So no carrot, if they do everything we say we'll just take away the stick. Well if we wanted them to start the war instead of us this is the way to do it. Unless they agree so they have time to get things into position to put a knife in our back at the worst possible moment.

Keep in mind that they just gave us a laughably bad offer on their end. Granted, it was their highball offer, but even so it was really, really bad. Now it's time to haggle, and respond in turn with our own highball offer, and there's likely to be at least one more round of negotiation - we'll add a carrot or two and maybe lessen the number of sticks depending on what their response is.
 
So we have gone from being the federation to the Terran Empire?
We were never the Federation, we were an isolated planet under siege trying to survive by keeping up a full-tilt military mobilization. Even our exploratory efforts are driven as much by fear of the unknown and desire to exploit any advantages we can find as they are by simple curiosity.

I don't want to deal with the Lystheni in an overtly evil way, but they've done a lot to create a situation in which their continued autonomy is at best unpalatable from the point of view of the continued welfare of Virmire.
 
We were never the Federation, we were an isolated planet under siege trying to survive by keeping up a full-tilt military mobilization. Even our exploratory efforts are driven as much by fear of the unknown and desire to exploit any advantages we can find as they are by simple curiosity.

I don't want to deal with the Lystheni in an overtly evil way, but they've done a lot to create a situation in which their continued autonomy is at best unpalatable from the point of view of the continued welfare of Virmire.

Yes but we are trying to annex a cult one that has proved hostile to us in the past and proably has decent intrigue and learning scores. Who will cause us all manner of trouble.

We could be looking at our own Massada if we are not careful and I really don't want to find out they have a black bird base in virmires home system.
 
Yes but we are trying to annex a cult one that has proved hostile to us in the past and proably has decent intrigue and learning scores. Who will cause us all manner of trouble.
This has come up before.
Let me repeat: We are explicitly not trying to annex them. If we were, we would have simply invaded at the beginning.
Or walked away once we got our merchants back, THEN invaded.
 
This has come up before.
Let me repeat: We are explicitly not trying to annex them. If we were, we would have simply invaded at the beginning.
Or walked away once we got our merchants back, THEN invaded.

Heh

We might as well be trying to annex them if plan steamroller is anything to go by. I mean we are literally setting up watch stations, looking to dominate there economy through our larger one and taking over their fleet to fight the bugs sure but I really wouldn't rate it.

How long till we vote to take them over?
 
Heh

We might as well be trying to annex them if plan steamroller is anything to go by. I mean we are literally setting up watch stations, looking to dominate there economy through our larger one and taking over their fleet to fight the bugs sure but I really wouldn't rate it.

How long till we vote to take them over?

Plan Steamroller is a plan for our opening position, not for what we actually expect to get. We should fully expect to be haggled down from this (much as the Lystheni will be haggled down from their ridiculous initial proposal).
 
How long till we vote to take them over?
Never? They have a smaller population than New York City.

Virmire's population adds in excess of ten times the total population of the Lystheni each year.
If they choose to vote for assimilation and are willing to follow our laws, we'd probably take them on general principles.
But economic and military leverage is more than sufficient for our purposes.
 
Plan Steamroller is a plan for our opening position, not for what we actually expect to get. We should fully expect to be haggled down from this (much as the Lystheni will be haggled down from their ridiculous initial proposal).

An opening which may force them (if the roll goes poorly) to leave the table then we are almost back where we started
 
An opening which may force them (if the roll goes poorly) to leave the table then we are almost back where we started

It's an aggressive move, yes. I'm not saying it's an ideal plan; I didn't cast my vote for it. But acting like people are actually expecting to get all of this is just wrong.
 
It's an aggressive move, yes. I'm not saying it's an ideal plan; I didn't cast my vote for it. But acting like people are actually expecting to get all of this is just wrong.

Sigh

Sorry maybe I'm just projecting my own view of a particularly group of idiots in my country here who believe they will get everything on a silver plate.

Sorry for going off the rails @Wiadi and @uju32
 
I mean if the Lystheni walk away, we don't have to do a thing to force their economy to collapse. it'll happen all on its own. At that point they can either try to draw down their own navy and sell us the ships they made, or grovel for us to open our boarders again.

As is, I expect them to drop the doubling the BZ, accept trade on the old terms and then tell us their version of events on why they left Citadel space in exchange for us keeping our merchants on a leash and drawing down the 3RWF. no idea about that station tho.
 
I have a bit of an odd question in regards to the Lystheni what kind of economic model do they use because until they met us they had no one but themselves to trade with?

Also considering what we have seen of there fleet what are the chances they have political officers reason I ask is if we have to fight with them at are back it could cause problems.
 
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Sigh

Sorry maybe I'm just projecting my own view of a particularly group of idiots in my country here who believe they will get everything on a silver plate.

Sorry for going off the rails @Wiadi and @uju32
Look, we cannot prevent the Lystheni from being stupid.

Our options are to give them extremely lopsided concessions so that they never have an incentive to cross us because we give them everything they could possibly desire in exchange for minimal considerations and concessions on their part...

...Or to counter their list of demands with our own and expect them to be willing to meet us halfway.

If it turns out they're stupid enough to walk away purely because we even dared to utter a list of demands that doesn't give them what they want from us, we were never going to be able to have fruitful negotiations with them anyway. Because in that hypothetical scenario, the only outcome they would ever have been willing to accept was one that we can't accept, and they would then have been too inflexible to acknowledge that "compromise is the art of leaving everyone equally unsatisfied."

So we have to hope that they're sane enough to be willing to listen to our offer and recognize that compromise is necessary, that they will have to give up some things they would prefer to keep. They could have avoided reaching this state of affairs, but now they have, and we cannot sit around indefinitely wondering what the hell they're up to while they do things like sneak planetfuls of artifacts out from under our noses..
 
Look, we cannot prevent the Lystheni from being stupid.

Our options are to give them extremely lopsided concessions so that they never have an incentive to cross us because we give them everything they could possibly desire in exchange for minimal considerations and concessions on their part...

...Or to counter their list of demands with our own and expect them to be willing to meet us halfway.

If it turns out they're stupid enough to walk away purely because we even dared to utter a list of demands that doesn't give them what they want from us, we were never going to be able to have fruitful negotiations with them anyway. Because in that hypothetical scenario, the only outcome they would ever have been willing to accept was one that we can't accept, and they would then have been too inflexible to acknowledge that "compromise is the art of leaving everyone equally unsatisfied."

So we have to hope that they're sane enough to be willing to listen to our offer and recognize that compromise is necessary, that they will have to give up some things they would prefer to keep. They could have avoided reaching this state of affairs, but now they have, and we cannot sit around indefinitely wondering what the hell they're up to while they do things like sneak planetfuls of artifacts out from under our noses..

Things that we can certainly concede is control over their apparently pitiful navy as well as the spy stations. With an open market, our traders will spy for us anyway.
 
By Other Means
[X]Plan Steamroller
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).

By Other Means
You give the Dalatrass a sharp smile, and take a deep breath. "No," you say.

She frowns. "Excuse me?"

"No," you repeat, patiently. "Your demands are unacceptable. In fact, Dalatrass, you don't really seem to understand the nature of this situation. Allow me to clarify." You lean forward, steepling your fingers. "We have caught you in the middle of several transgressions against our state. We have caught you in blatant violation of a signed treaty. While we have bled to protect you, you have repeatedly taken advantage of us, presumably either blissfully ignorant of the fact that we knew about it, or confident in our distractions otherwise. Well, you have miscalculated. We know. We are not happy. Today is not a day for negotiations between equals. This summit was for removing our citizens from your hands -- which we have done -- and then outlining the new reality to you. Kirai."

The matriarch stands, walking around the table to the Dalatrass's aide and passing off a datapad. As she walks, she says, "The forms I am giving you outline Virmire's current course of action, and what you need to agree to -- before anybody leaves this room -- to head off that course of action."

You watch, smug, as the Dalatrass and her aide read the datapad, turning progressively more flushed with fury before abruptly turning white with horror. You steeple your fingers in front of your face. "I'm a rather straightforward woman, you know. So I suppose that I should thank you. You've made this simple. When I leave this room, I am going to order the 3rd into the border zone to occupy it, seize those stations you've been illegally operating, and then blockade you. Unless."

"You would make us your client!" chokes the Dalatrass, staring at you in fury.

"I would remove your ability to continue subverting my efforts at keeping us all alive," you say, tone cool. "And in exchange, you no longer have a gun to your head."

"No, merely in your hands!" shouts the Dalatrass.

crack

You lift your hand off of the table, letting the sound of its impact echo and fade. "The gun has always been in my hands, and it is not my fault that you thought you were safe from it just because I was pointing it elsewhere. You've acted as though I wouldn't dare to call you to account. You were wrong. Today is the day that reckoning comes due. Your ships -- including the designs stolen from us -- are ours. The stations are ours. Your history is ours. Your secrets are ours. Your economy is ours. And if you refuse, I'll turn you into a wretched backwater with a fleet hanging over your heads, everything you've sacrificed to achieve lost." You point at the datapad she's holding. "Sign, or I walk out and-"

clickclickclick

You blink at the group of gun barrels suddenly pointing your way from the guards and the Dalatrass's aide. Your eyebrows shoot up as your guards react, leveling their rifles on their opposite numbers. "You're serious."

The Dalatrass calmly produces a pistol from within her robes and levels it at you. "Yes, I quite am. I am...tired of this charade." She gives you a thin smile, smoothing out her hunched posture. "I must admit, I was almost alarmed when your fleets began moving into position at our border. Spoiled our plans for a preemptive strike quite thoroughly. Imagine my delight when you threw away your advantage for the sake of negotiations." She chuckles. "Now. Prime Minister. Let's clarify the situation. However much leverage your nation holds, it holds only as much as it can bring to bear, and without a leader it can do nothing. You will order your guards outside to stand down, and you will return to Taramnal with me. Or your matriarch puppet master will die here, and then your guards, and then you, if you push it that far. And then we will simply launch our assault while your forces thrash in-"

"You're serious," you say, your fingers a twitch away from completing the barrier mnemonic. "This is your plan?"

She frowns. "...well, I can see you're having a bit of trouble parsing the situation. That's fine. We can attend to it in a moment. Stand up and-"

You roll your eyes and twitch your fingers. Your barrier raises, and the Lystheni fire on impulse. The shots stop dead, and although your barrier weakens, it's enough to give you the time to stand, your guards to pull their triggers, and Kirai to throw up a barrier across the middle of the room. You vault up onto the table and charge as the Dalatrass's guards drop dead under your guards' fire, pulling your pistol. The instant you clear Kirai's barrier, you hurl a biotic blast that sends the Dalatrass's aide crunching headfirst into the wall, and then slide feet-first into the Dalatrass's chest, knocking her down and the pistol out of her hands.

Your pistol barrel comes up level with her forehead as you pin her down by the throat, and you activate your private communicator, opening a line to the head of your security contingent on the station and saying, "Negotiations have broken down. Execute Contingency Four."

"It will be done, ma'am."

You then haul the Dalatrass to her feet, slamming her against a wall. "Did you know that I was a Huntress before I entered the military?" You give her a half-feral grin. "Been too long since I had the chance for a good fight."

"Prime Minister, please step away," says the batarian guard you brought into the room, approaching on your right. "Let us secure her."

"Check her teeth," says Kirai. "Suicide capsules."

You step back, keeping you gun trained on the Dalatrass. "Good advice. Check, soldiers."

"Yes, ma'am," says the asari guard as the two secure the Dalatrass.

She coughs, finally getting her breath back after the series of impacts to which you've subjected her. "...wh- wha...?"

"Threatening me was a bad idea," you say, turning away. "Even if I hadn't had my guards here, that just would've meant that I would have needed to shoot you all instead. Get it done with quicker." You shake your head. "And even if you'd managed to take me down, what do you think would happen? We have a chain of command. Virmire wouldn't be crippled." You open the door to the room, and a Lystheni soldier topples through, dead from a headshot. "And now all your soldiers here are dead. Funny, how that works out."

Kira steps up to you as the Dalatrass begins to scream. "What do we do now?" she asks, looking unsettled at all of the violence.

"Now we go to Plan B," you say, pulling out your PDA and starting to send out orders. "We're done talking. Time to resort to diplomacy by other means."



The Dalatrass responded to your demands by trying to take you hostage.

You are on a disarmed defense platform, with all Lystheni soldiers dead and the Dalatrass captured. You have a company of Virmire Void Marines (roughly 100 soldiers) with you. Outside you have the task force of warships described at the beginning of this event chain, opposed by the Lystheni task force similarly explained. Neither have yet received word of events on the platform. On a broader level (one not yet relevant to you, but for reference's sake), you have the 3rd RWF on active status and ready to invade Lystheni space at the first sign of betrayal, which recent events constitute. They are opposed by (what passes for) the Lystheni navy.

But before you attend to matters of strategy and campaigning, how do you plan to secure this system?

[ ] Shoot first, shoot often. Sucker punch the Lystheni with an all-out assault. You possess the advantage of quality. An alpha strike could easily burn half of the Lystheni's ships before they get their engines started, and secure the battle.
[ ] Play it cool. Depart in your own shuttle without comment to anybody. Get off of this toothless platform before the shooting starts.
[ ] Write-in.

TWO-HOUR MORATORIUM. THIS VOTE HAS NOT YET CLOSED.

There is a limit to how much Mira, personally, is willing to tolerate.

Here we observe this limit, firsthand.

Have fun, folks!
 
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[ ] Shoot first, shoot often. Sucker punch the Lystheni with an all-out assault. You possess the advantage of quality. An alpha strike could easily burn half of the Lystheni's ships before they get their engines started, and secure the battle.

Well, I was not surprised at this turn of events. Might as well make it as short as possible. Science ho!
 
[] Play it cool. Depart in your own shuttle without comment to anybody. Get off of this toothless platform before the shooting starts.
-[] Call for the surrender of the "Navy". Hopefully they're more reasonable.
--[] And make sure it's recorded for posterity.
 
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