- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Fanatic Xenophile Egalitarians with a direct democracy and the shadow council civic.
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Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest
rdc30
While you learned to write, I studied the blade.
Making the demand in the first place requires us to reveal the extant of our spying. Showing our hand like this for leverage over something we don't even want is just silly.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Ah that makes sense.
mmm one problem with Mass Effect is that there ain't really any species you can pin as Fallen Empires.
- Location
- Central Europe
I don't see us revealing that information. Mira could just generally demand that they aid us in our fight against the Rachni. No reason to tell them immediately which ships we want.
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- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
This is easily explained by the Reapers though, so it is to be expected. Maybe the Leviathan in a pinch.
I'm genuinely not certain if you're writing that from the Lysenti point of view.
...
So, at the ultimatum post, @PoptartProdigy included a stinger referencing WWI.
One of the many factors leading into WWI was the Austria-Hungarian demand that Austria-Hungarian police be put in charge of the investigation into the death of Franz Ferdinand.
This was interpreted by Serbia (and a lot of other nations) as an attempt to usurp Serbia's sovereign rights.
I see a potential parallel.
I'd like to avoid getting into a pointless war, particularly when all we would get would be a few outdated ships and the ability to bleed the Lysenti.
EDIT: To clarify, don't back them all the way into the corner, leave them a few things that might give them a sense of security.
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rdc30
While you learned to write, I studied the blade.
Then they say they don't have a military and have no industry capacity to sustain one.
Pointless war? No.
We dispose of unreliable entity in our strategic rear, get a developed colonisation prospect and get to improve our army in one move.
That's not exactly a bad move. Not the best, I will grant you, but not bad either.
- Location
- United States
[X]Plan Steamroller
- Location
- Central Europe
I really doubt they will tell that to the people with a fleet at their doorstep
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That would be somewhat hard to do if they accede to the following demand:
--[] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
rdc30
While you learned to write, I studied the blade.
I really doubt they will that to the people with a fleet at their doorstep
So, now you're going to war over the worthless bargaining chip you never even wanted in the first place?
- Location
- Central Europe
Plan Steamroller doesn't threaten war.
All I'm saying is: Your statement - that the Lystheni could force us to reveal how deep we have infiltrated them by stating that they have no forces to aid us with - is comically absurd.
VOTE
[X]Plan Steamroller
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
Okay. Vote now, replies in a bit.
[X]Plan Steamroller
--[X] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[X] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[X] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[X] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[X] Leverage
--[X] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[X] Concessions
--[X] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
Okay. Vote now, replies in a bit.
rdc30
While you learned to write, I studied the blade.
To call them out on it REQUIRES us to at least reveal we know SOMETHING. What if they say they have a quarter of the ships we know they have? Are you going to call them out on it?
- Location
- Europe
You're getting bogged down in minutiae. We're not actually expecting them to aid us in the war effort. We're not going to reveal how large their navy is. We're just using it as a bargaining chip. The fact that we know they have a navy means nothing.
rdc30
While you learned to write, I studied the blade.
No, I'm saying the Lystheni are going to say its not even a bargaining chip because they can't give something they don't have in the first place. To call them out on it, we have to reveal that we have acquired one of their most closely guarded secrets.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Was gonna say this, too. Plus they start the game with a full Ascended-perk set of Prothean uplift genemod points. Biotics, thousand year Lifespan, super-psychically-Charismatic, Gynogenetic (kind of), Deviant. Probably Talented, too.
Harbringer-Protheans, sort of, but nobody finds them until they Awaken as a mid game crisis.
The ME galaxy is a little different in that you're largely limited to your local cluster unless you use the (Primary) Relays, so large polities in the galaxy remain unaware of each other for hundreds of years. So... hyperlanes are separated into clusters, pre-existing gateways link clusters, which you can reactivate to enable travel to a different cluster.
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- Location
- Central Europe
Their secret that they have spaceships outfitted for combat?
We do NOT have to tell them we know they stole our designs. We do NOT have to tell them we know how many ships they have.
All we are doing is telling them: We demand that you contribute to the defence of this cluster under our direction. No spacefaring civilisation that controls multiple star systems can reliably claim to have 0 defensive capabilities. Especially not one as paranoid as the Lystheni.
IMO both of the current leading plans are bluffs (eg. we won't get even half the things we demand in them). So, if you only want science go vote for the one you think is least likely to cause the Lystheni to walk out immediately.
Otherwise I can offer you my old Plan with 0 votes:
[] Plan One Step At A Time
-[]Demands
--[] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
-[] Leverage
--[] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
-[] Concessions
--[] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
The lystheni are going to be gathering intel regardless, just like we will.
No real margin to giving them better ship designs. Not without more incentive than is currently on the table.
1)Because it's valuable to them, which means we can trade it as a lever for things that are important to US. Consider the way their spies were valuable to them or our merchants were to us.
Monaco is an independent city-state that gets to claim independence. It still jumps when France snaps it's fingers. Vatican City is an independent city-state with massive diplomatic influence. It still steps carefully around the Italian state in political and criminal matters. The Federated States of Micronesia are independent, but dependent on the United States for defense and a bunch of other things.
You do not require overt political control to....persuade people to your point of view.
Furthermore, we're a democracy. Our citizens WANT to be here. Same with the Citadel. Forced annexation goes very much against that, and increases our internal security concerns.
As long as they don't cause us trouble, I'm entirely willing to consider guaranteeing their independence, within certain limits.
2)Why exactly would the Citadel care?
The canon batarians maintained a worsening caste system for two millenia, with an increasing sponsorship of the slave trade in foreign citizens, and sponsorship of petty warlords in the Terminus, and the Citadel swallowed it.
As long as they aren't doing anything openly egregious, the Citadel will happily ignore them. If they are, they'll talk to us.
This is true whether we declare independence or not, because you can't move force through the Sentry Omega relay without either our permission or breaking our navy.
Doesn't really matter if it's the dalatrass or a body double pretending to be her; the decisions made here are binding regardless.
If they send a body double who is incompetent at diplomatic negotiations to negotiate a treaty, the more fool they.
Which would fit most of their actions thus far.
1) They literally parked a light cruiser and four frigates across from the station where we're meeting.
The frigate is our design. We aren't blind, even if we sometimes pretend to be.
And some of the other options explicitly allow us to keep an eye on their military shipyards; that's the point of the monitoring stations.
2) And? They are going to be attempting to steal information anyway as long as we have any sort of contact.
That's the nature of diplomacy and espionage.
That's Shurna's job to keep them away from anything we don't want them to have, and to return the favor.
It's not like ships we are putting on the frontlines or in monitoring the Rachni have secret specifications.
3) GOOD. Then we don't have to worry about Lystheni warships in our backyard and we can reduce the ships we'd keep behind to patrol our territory and send more to the frontlines. It's a win win situation for us.
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