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Tangled Fate [Ranma 1/2 / Exalted]

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I am... tentatively down with this, depending on where it goes from here?

There's shades of stuff that I've had enough of in Ranma 1/2 fics, but I'm not sure if that's just me projecting from the hundreds of fics I've read or not.

Every Ranma 1/2 character seems kinda OOC, but then again...
I don't really care, 'cuz canon Ranma characters can get very irritating very quickly, so... yeah. Like, I can never re-read the manga ever again, or watch more than two episodes in a row 'cuz God, these assholes make me want to tear my hair out, no matter how much I love them.
 
Honestly, given what he has decided about how Jusenkyo functions is really interesting and the lock makes sense not only within the lore of Exalted (I think, I don't fully get it) but it does make sense with the lore of Ranma.

Plus this looks like it might be a long haul kind of thing, and Ranma commonly gets the most interesting shades of character development when placed on the back foot like this.
 
Lunaryon said:
Honestly, given what he has decided about how Jusenkyo functions is really interesting and the lock makes sense not only within the lore of Exalted (I think, I don't fully get it) but it does make sense with the lore of Ranma.

Plus this looks like it might be a long haul kind of thing, and Ranma commonly gets the most interesting shades of character development when placed on the back foot like this.
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plus this is by no means a
permanent lock. There are ready made solutions in Exalted Canon.
 
VagrantPhantasm said:
I am... tentatively down with this, depending on where it goes from here?

There's shades of stuff that I've had enough of in Ranma 1/2 fics, but I'm not sure if that's just me projecting from the hundreds of fics I've read or not.

Every Ranma 1/2 character seems kinda OOC, but then again...
I don't really care, 'cuz canon Ranma characters can get very irritating very quickly, so... yeah. Like, I can never re-read the manga ever again, or watch more than two episodes in a row 'cuz God, these assholes make me want to tear my hair out, no matter how much I love them.
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Well I'm happy someone is sticking around. I knew going into this it wasn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. Ranma 1/2 is so old at this point that the Fandom carries more baggage than a 747. As for the OOCness... A bit, definitely a bit. I'd like to attribute it to being about 6 months post Jusendo, but a little bit of it is I honestly have trouble writing jerks or idiots. Egos I can manage, outright nastiness is difficult.
 
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The Dangers of Writing Fanfiction in Ye Olde Fandoms
  • Apocrypha
    • For reference;

    Normal Fandom

    Here be the fresh and enthusiastic fans who have just stumbled upon the additional material being dug up from the rich prospects at the surface. These new fandoms are full of claims which look promising, however an excessively enthusiastic author may inadvertently start digging in the wrong direction or get lost in some dark corner of canon!


    Well Established Fandom (etc. Fate, Video Game Plot)

    At this stage the fandom is in full swing and large scale hole digging can begin. Most of the obvious claims have been prospected already and digging will be well underway. Care must be taken in order to avoid digging into the naturally occurring pitfalls and traps formed by failure to comply with canon, however calcification has yet to fully set in and people will probably find falling into them amusing in their search for new material.


    Ye Olde Fandom (Harry Potter, Naruto, ZnT, Ranma)

    Once things hit the Ye Olde Fandom stage you really have to be careful to avoid the mineshafts and quarrys that those who have come before you have already dug. Be wary of digging in what looks like new ground, as it is very likely that there's at least a few pitfalls and old claims to stray into somewhere along your route. Be mindful that attempting to apply new techniques to an already claimed prospect will likely gain you some detractors who remember how such things were tried 'back in the olden days when every new story hit gold!'. Also, beware of the griefers and trolls who exist only to undermine new stories and mess with any authors who dare venture into their favourite hunting grounds!

    I have no idea where this just came from... Apparently I'm more bored than I had realised.

    Edit. I just got threadmarked... I don't think this has ever happened before :D.
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Honestly, (good) plots involving "Ranma gets locked and has to deal with gender issues" (or even "Ranma has to deal with gender issues") are literally my fav, it's just...

    So many don't deal with it well. Or at all. Or take it to weird, creepy af places, so every time it comes up, I feel like I'm stepping on to a minefield with a vague promise of something good at the end.

    I'd say I've come across maybe nine or so (that I can recall) with that plotline that were... y'know, not piles of flaming garbage.
     
    VagrantPhantasm said:
    Honestly, (good) plots involving "Ranma gets locked and has to deal with gender issues" (or even "Ranma has to deal with gender issues") are literally my fav, it's just...

    So many don't deal with it well. Or at all. Or take it to weird, creepy af places, so every time it comes up, I feel like I'm stepping on to a minefield with a vague promise of something good at the end.

    I'd say I've come across maybe nine or so (that I can recall) with that plotline that were... y'know, not piles of flaming garbage.
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    I also like good lockfics. Unfortunately they tend to be bashfics or transsexual wish fulfillments.
     
    PoetHeather on Fanfiction had a pretty good one.

    Journey is the Destination I think it was called.
     
    JadeKaiser said:
    Once again, "have the chemicals/base knowledge needed" =/= "will develop the same technology with those chemicals/base knowledge that we did." It just... doesn't. The world doesn't work that way.
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    I did remember that you said it, you just happen to be wrong in this specific case. The world does work like I described. It cannot work otherwise unless you substitute the intervention of an Exalt or a God. We didn't develop those technologies because it was divinely ordained, we developed them because they are required to do what we needed them to do -- allow us to mass produce gun powder.

    In order to have enough sulfur and potassium nitrate to make gun powder armies feasible, you must have a certain minimum level of chemistry knowledge. You cannot avoid it except by not developing those technologies -- say, by having someone somehow build a mountain of those chemicals for you (God or Exalt).

    You might be able to make do with natural deposits for a while, but sooner rather than later you will run out and then you'll have to pick one of the following: Abandon guns; Find a better propellant (which will require alchemy or chemistry or magic); Find a way to manufacture the resources you need (chenistry).
     
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    I think JadeKaiser's point was the other way around. That is, an Exalt or God with the required level of Chemistry...might not necessarily decide to use that knowledge to make gunpowder for their armies.
     
    Gindjurra said:
    I did remember that you said it, you just happen to be wrong in this specific case. The world does work like I described. It cannot work otherwise unless you substitute the intervention of an Exalt or a God. We didn't develop those technologies because it was divinely ordained, we developed them because they are required to do what we needed them to do -- allow us to mass produce gun powder.

    In order to have enough sulfur and potassium nitrate to make gun powder armies feasible, you must have a certain minimum level of chemistry knowledge. You cannot avoid it except by not developing those technologies -- say, by having someone somehow build a mountain of those chemicals for you (God or Exalt).

    You might be able to make do with natural deposits for a while, but sooner rather than later you will run out and then you'll have to pick one of the following: Abandon guns; Find a better propellant (which will require alchemy or chemistry or magic); Find a way to manufacture the resources you need (chenistry).
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    That is pretty much completely irrelevant to what I said. In fact, you seem to be responding to exactly the opposite of what I actually said.

    What I was saying was that just because they have that chemistry knowledge doesn't mean that they are going to use it to create guns, or even necessarily gunpowder. Knowing the prerequisites is far from a guarantee that you will take the same next step from them that we did.
    Bel said:
    I think JadeKaiser's point was the other way around. That is, an Exalt or God with the required level of Chemistry...might not necessarily decide to use that knowledge to make gunpowder for their armies.
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    Close enough. More like "might not necessarily realize that using that knowledge to make gunpowder for their armies is a viable/productive option in the first place," but close enough.
     
    Or perhaps they do create gunpowder, but don't realize that it can be used in that particular way.

    After all, guns exist because of a single badly made ritual device.
     
    JadeKaiser said:
    That is pretty much completely irrelevant to what I said. In fact, you seem to be responding to exactly the opposite of what I actually said.

    What I was saying was that just because they have that chemistry knowledge doesn't mean that they are going to use it to create guns, or even necessarily gunpowder. Knowing the prerequisites is far from a guarantee that you will take the same next step from them that we did.

    Close enough. More like "might not necessarily realize that using that knowledge to make gunpowder for their armies is a viable/productive option in the first place," but close enough.
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    Your obsessive focus on Exalts is causing you to ignore half of the argument, then argue as if you were aware of all of it.

    You dismiss that other half as irrelevant, not because it actually is irrelevant, but because of your obsession.

    I doubt that this will be viewed as anything but another irrelevancy, but: The people of Creation as a whole are just as creative and intelligent as the people in our world. Like us, they cannot afford to ignore partial solutions in hopes of finding complete solutions to problems that are killing them right now. However, unlike us, they have a greater need for powerful weapons, and know full well that certain avenues of research (Essence Cannons, etc) are closed to them.
     
    Gindjurra said:
    Your obsessive focus on Exalts is causing you to ignore half of the argument, then argue as if you were aware of all of it.

    You dismiss that other half as irrelevant, not because it actually is irrelevant, but because of your obsession.

    I doubt that this will be viewed as anything but another irrelevancy, but: The people of Creation as a whole are just as creative and intelligent as the people in our world. Like us, they cannot afford to ignore partial solutions in hopes of finding complete solutions to problems that are killing them right now. However, unlike us, they have a greater need for powerful weapons, and know full well that certain avenues of research (Essence Cannons, etc) are closed to them.
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    There is not necessarily any reason why guns haven't been made yet in Creation, and you don't need one beyond 'No idiot has made some explosive powder, looked at it, and gone "huh... I wonder what would happen if I stuffed this into a tube, stuck something in front of it, then set it off?"'.

    Tech doesn't advance uniformly, and you can't just put a failure to achieve something down to a lack of intelligence. There has to be a need for it and a bit of luck in the first place to start off a development like firearms.
     
    Reality isn't a strategy game, there isn't a linear tech tree that civilizations progress down. Technology A does not necessarily lead to Technology B. Sometimes people don't think of B. Sometimes A leads to C, or D, or F. We have numerous examples of this in our history, examples that have already been brought up in this thread. Just because people are intelligent does not mean they will all have the same ideas, or apply those ideas in the same manner.
     
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    Something to consider isn't what can be invented by hypothetical modern people dumped into exalted but rather what would the specific named characters we are working with think of to solve the problems. We aren't talking about SV goers here but rather the cast of Ranma 1/2. I doubt any of them but the JSDF would even consider guns as a potential solution and the handful of JSDF soldiers probably don't have the chemistry of metallurgy knowledge to make early guns, at least on short notice. Ranma and team would probably think more along the lines of martial arts boot camp for the cities armies with zany antics themed deep strike missions sabotaging the enemy army before it arrives.

    A typical soldier doesn't carry all that much ammunition on them from a logistial perspective so it is unlikely that they can last for an extended conflict without running out of ammo. If they are lucky they might be able to figure out gunpowder but they aren't going to get up to high enough modern standards to work with their current guns. They certainly won't be getting the blasting caps produced in time. The will realize this and strive to get the maximum use out of the limited ammunition they have, likely either will use it in a series of ambushes designed to get the most out of each bullet, or give all the ammunition to a handful of the soldiers that are the best shots to pick out officers.
     
    Gindjurra said:
    Your obsessive focus on Exalts is causing you to ignore half of the argument, then argue as if you were aware of all of it.

    You dismiss that other half as irrelevant, not because it actually is irrelevant, but because of your obsession.

    I doubt that this will be viewed as anything but another irrelevancy, but: The people of Creation as a whole are just as creative and intelligent as the people in our world. Like us, they cannot afford to ignore partial solutions in hopes of finding complete solutions to problems that are killing them right now. However, unlike us, they have a greater need for powerful weapons, and know full well that certain avenues of research (Essence Cannons, etc) are closed to them.
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    I haven't mentioned exalts once. Not a single time. The closest I have come was to all but say outright that they are irrelevant to the discussion. You have been ignoring practically everything that I say in order to argue against something that is completely different from anything that I have mentioned.

    The chances of them happening upon guns astronomically small; them being creative is the only reason they aren't utterly nonexistant. That isn't a disparagement of them, because the same was true for us. Knowing the prerequisites for a technology is no guarantee that you will develop the technology; it merely means that doing so is theoretically possible.
    Pyrotech51 said:
    There is not necessarily any reason why guns haven't been made yet in Creation, and you don't need one beyond 'No idiot has made some explosive powder, looked at it, and gone "huh... I wonder what would happen if I stuffed this into a tube, stuck something in front of it, then set it off?"'.

    Tech doesn't advance uniformly, and you can't just put a failure to achieve something down to a lack of intelligence. There has to be a need for it and a bit of luck in the first place to start off a development like firearms.
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    Grounders10 said:
    Reality isn't a strategy game, there isn't a linear tech tree that civilizations progress down. Technology A does not necessarily lead to Technology B. Sometimes people don't think of B. Sometimes A leads to C, or D, or F. We have numerous examples of this in our history, examples that have already been brought up in this thread. Just because people are intelligent does not mean they will all have the same ideas, or apply those ideas in the same manner.
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    These. These two people get what I am saying. You, @Gindjurra, do not. No matter how many times I tell you and no matter how clearly I state it, it seems. Instead, you appear to be obsessively focused on arguing with a fictional person of your own invention, while pretending that this person is me and ignoring what I actually say.

    I'm done answering your arguments. Rage against your straw... things all you want. I can't call them straw men, because a straw man argument is actually relevant to the argument of the person who is being attacked.
     
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    JadeKaiser said:
    I haven't mentioned exalts once. Not a single time. The closest I have come was to all but say outright that they are irrelevant to the discussion. You have been ignoring practically everything that I say in order to argue against something that is completely different from anything that I have mentioned.

    The chances of them happening upon guns astronomically small; them being creative is the only reason they aren't utterly nonexistant. That isn't a disparagement of them, because the same was true for us. Knowing the prerequisites for a technology is no guarantee that you will develop the technology; it merely means that doing so is theoretically possible.


    These. These two people get what I am saying. You, @Gindjurra, do not. No matter how many times I tell you and no matter how clearly I state it, it seems. Instead, you appear to be obsessively focused on arguing with a fictional person of your own invention, while pretending that this person is me and ignoring what I actually say.

    I'm done answering your arguments. Rage against your straw... things all you want. I can't call them straw men, because a straw man argument is actually relevant to the argument of the person who is being attacked.
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    Uhh...

    The Strawman falacy doesn't actually have to be relevant to the argument of the victim, it is simply a paper thin target for the attacker to strike at. While the attack has evolved to the point that it is no longer relevant simply means that you have been burdened with the straw man.

    I've seen enough Strawmen to know that much.
     
    Lunaryon said:
    Uhh...

    The Strawman falacy doesn't actually have to be relevant to the argument of the victim, it is simply a paper thin target for the attacker to strike at. While the attack has evolved to the point that it is no longer relevant simply means that you have been burdened with the straw man.

    I've seen enough Strawmen to know that much.
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    [pout]
    Stop picking apart my annoyed rant.
    [/pout]
    ...
    lol
     
    JadeKaiser said:
    [pout]
    Stop picking apart my annoyed rant.
    [/pout]
    ...
    lol
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    Sorry, I've been watching Commentaries on youtube alot lately, and when looking back at the any of the Doodles Trees it seems that someone always brings up Strawmen or Hypocrisy or Ad hominems, even tho it seems that no one understands what one of those is anymore...
     
    The only problem, as a whole, that I have, is that Terrestial Martial Arts should be more... I don't know, weak I guess?

    Yes, one on one, a master of Solar Hero style vs a master of any Terrestial Style will probably end with the Solar taking the DB's lunch money, but I can't imagine that Ranma etc will be able to out school a Sidereal at first.

    And as a second thing, I believe it's a theory (fan theory) that Creation did have guns, just... you know, when the Three Sphere Calamity happened, entire concepts were wiped away.

    Unless shellcasters are a thing.
     
    bejammin2000 said:
    The only problem, as a whole, that I have, is that Terrestial Martial Arts should be more... I don't know, weak I guess?

    Yes, one on one, a master of Solar Hero style vs a master of any Terrestial Style will probably end with the Solar taking the DB's lunch money, but I can't imagine that Ranma etc will be able to out school a Sidereal at first.

    And as a second thing, I believe it's a theory (fan theory) that Creation did have guns, just... you know, when the Three Sphere Calamity happened, entire concepts were wiped away.

    Unless shellcasters are a thing.
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    I'm very confused by your statement.

    Are you arguing that Ranma is a master of Solar Hero Style?
     
    No. I'm arguing that they're a solar that's a master of a (sorta) Celestial Martial Art, which I believe heroic mortals can learn.

    Of course they're able to fight off a Terrestial one at a time.

    But that's the problem. At least when I played a solar game, the GM had the Wyld Hunt drown us in legionaires until we ran out of motes.
     
    Ah, oh.

    Well, I cannot say for certain, given that I can't find anyone around where I live whose willing to run a game, so I'm not certain about that angle...

    But this IS post canon Nerima Wrecking Crew.

    They are kinda really awesome

    and as that Goddess Lady said, these are - Discounting that one guy with the Fire Sword and his student, pretty much the dregs and swill of the local army.
     
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