Going heavy on trade requires having resources important enough to trade, having transportation to make large amounts of trade worth it, as well as knowing enough civilizations to trade with.
Long range trade through intermediates was a thing back in the Neolithic. Your Obsidian blades could be bought and sold so often that they end up on the other side of the map.
Long range trade through intermediates was a thing back in the Neolithic. Your Obsidian blades could be bought and sold so often that they end up on the other side of the map.
The switch to the pop-system means there are no actions like that anymore. You will get control over their remaining worker and Red-Wolf though.
Indeed, but before you can become good at something, you need to start doing it. Starting local trade would create both the infrastructure and desire to innovate in that direction, potentially leading to a Phoenician civ down the line. Culture is the most important ingredient for these things and you will be hard pressed to suddenly go from warriors to traders once you've mooched the right techs from your neighbours.
Adhoc vote count started by Kirron 999 on Jun 27, 2018 at 10:53 AM, finished with 1305 posts and 17 votes.
[X] Plan Juggling Moods
-[X] [Segregation] Order the clans to disperse across the village. There is no place for tribes within the tribe. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
[X] Plan: Glacial Change -[X] [Segregation] Allow the clans to build these fences. They harm no one by doing so. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans.
[X] Plan Juggling Moods
-[X] [Segregation] Order the clans to disperse across the village. There is no place for tribes within the tribe. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
[X] Plan Gradual Change -[X] [Segregation] Forbid the clans from building fences to separate themselves. There is only one village. -[X] [Monopoly] Take control of the night-stone trade. The Speaker-Clan will benefit from their work, but they can not use their sales to further their interests. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
[X] Plan Gradual Change -[X] [Segregation] Forbid the clans from building fences to separate themselves. There is only one village. -[X] [Monopoly] Take control of the night-stone trade. The Speaker-Clan will benefit from their work, but they can not use their sales to further their interests. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
[X] Plan: Glacial Change -[X] [Segregation] Allow the clans to build these fences. They harm no one by doing so. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. [X] [Burial] Write-In: Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them. Separate bodies showing signs of cannibalism.
[X] Plan Juggling Moods
-[X] [Segregation] Order the clans to disperse across the village. There is no place for tribes within the tribe. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them. [X] Plan: Glacial Change -[X] [Segregation] Allow the clans to build these fences. They harm no one by doing so. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans.
[X] Plan Juggling Moods
-[X] [Segregation] Order the clans to disperse across the village. There is no place for tribes within the tribe. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
Long range trade through intermediates was a thing back in the Neolithic. Your Obsidian blades could be bought and sold so often that they end up on the other side of the map.
The switch to the pop-system means there are no actions like that anymore. You will get control over their remaining worker and Red-Wolf though.
Vote closed. This is going to be the Chinese brand of interesting.
Adhoc vote count started by Azel on Jun 27, 2018 at 4:18 PM, finished with 1310 posts and 18 votes.
[X] Plan Juggling Moods
-[X] [Segregation] Order the clans to disperse across the village. There is no place for tribes within the tribe. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
[X] Plan: Glacial Change -[X] [Segregation] Allow the clans to build these fences. They harm no one by doing so. -[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Write-In: Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them. Separate bodies showing signs of cannibalism.
[X] Plan Gradual Change -[X] [Segregation] Forbid the clans from building fences to separate themselves. There is only one village. -[X] [Monopoly] Take control of the night-stone trade. The Speaker-Clan will benefit from their work, but they can not use their sales to further their interests. -[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans. -[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
[X] Plan Juggling Moods
-[X] [Segregation] Order the clans to disperse across the village. There is no place for tribes within the tribe.
-[X] [Monopoly] Ignore the matter.
-[X] [Minor Clans] Present absorption into the village as a chance for them to no longer be ignored by the larger clans.
-[X] [Burial] Tell the Bone-Tenders to accept all bodies brought to them.
None of the choices had come easy to the council, especially not as they felt it prudent to not discuss them in the open. While the village was yet orderly, if tense, any one of these matters had the chance to spiral out of their tenuous control and plunge the tribe into strife. It was not a momentous affair, a single night of long talk that saw a conclusion in the morning, but it stretched over days before the first things had been agreed upon an half-a-moon in total for the last matter to get settled.
Oddly enough it was Winter-Sun who managed to settle the first two things, though there was still a lot of teeth grinding on his part at the compromise that he had brokered. That both of his fellow council members saw it as the best course to focus their efforts on integrating the minor clans was what drew him out of the dour shell he had retreated into. To him, it was the first step back into the right direction, finally putting the ways of the villagers above those of the clans and undermining the base of their strength. The Greater Elder did not like that it would take a veiled acceptance of their vile practices and allowing them to keep performing them in the wake of their new burial rites, though he saw the use of it.
To the lesser clans, that they had learned, this was thing they feared losing the most. They could be brought to abandon the idea of clans, said structure having always put them into the lowest rungs of any group they were part of, but they would not easily let go of what they felt tied them to their ancestors. What no one expected though was how badly the villagers had taken this choice. As the Bone-Tenders got their ruling and began to tell about it in the village, the clans were mostly pleased, though not exactly ecstatic for their rites were still treated like a shameful secret. The villagers on the other hand were apoplectic. They felt the council had been swayed to the foul ways of the clans or maybe pressured by their chieftain with the threat of force, thus making the ruling entirely invalid.
Thus the Elders suddenly saw a minor reversal of their fortunes, many feeling their shouting and worries not so unreasonable in hindsight. Other than that, what little peace and goodwill could be garnered from the Clans for this ruling was more then made up by the unrest among the villagers. While those following the hunters were not overly concerned by it, due to spending the most time of all villagers with clan-folk and having learned to accept their beliefs, those in the village who had been more sheltered from their new neighbors so far felt suddenly threatened by them. It was more tinder for the fire that slowly grew among the people.
Cannibalism will be tolerated, though not openly.
Clan Reaction: 61 -> Decently pleased.
+1 Mood for White Clans Faction
+1 Mood for Greenvalley
Villager Reaction: 16 - 10 (Perseverance) = 6 -> People up in arms about it.
-2 Mood for Greenvalley
-2 Mood for Matrons
+1 Influence for Elders
+1 Mood for Elders (smugness over being proven right)
Stability Check needed! Perseverance bonus not available due to perceived backing down from the new rites.
Stability Check:
78 - 30 (Existing Instability) = 48 -> -1 Stability
Stability now at 6/10
Maybe the lesser clans were worried to due to the growing tensions and thus more receptive to the offer. Maybe it was the evidence that the council was willing to make sacrifices for them. Whatever the reason though, when the council next approached them, they were greeted with open arms. As Winter-Sun had predicted, with the reassurance that their way of life would not be extinguished without a thought in the process, they became very eager to shake the bonds the Elm-Clan and Speaker-Clan had tied them down with so long. What surprised no one is how badly the larger clans had taken this overtures to what had been for all intents and purposes their subjects and with a direct admission of seeking to break their power no less.
Sell the idea of assimilation to the minor clans, who have little to loose and a lot to gain.
89 + 20 (Acceptance of Endo-Cannibalism) = 109 -> Overwhelming success.
White-Clans Sub-Faction "Minor Clans" becomes full Faction.
Large-Clan Reaction: 2 -> Critical Failure.
Both clans furious with the council.
White-Clans and Minor Clans in disarray, stats unknown until settled down.
Alas, as the council still deliberated, shutting itself away from the growing tension to not have their sessions devolve into violence, they saw too little of these signs and too late. What they knew was that the minor clans could be leveraged for their boldest move, but not how they had backed the Elm-Clan and the Speaker-Clan too far into a corner. Of Red-Wolf they heard nothing, she was out on a hunting trip and none of them had seen hide or hair of Tall-Peak for days, unaware how he desperately tried to put out the fires their actions had lit. So the order went out to break up the congregations of the clans.
The lesser clans had no issue with this, for their gatherings rarely went beyond two huts and the councils actions had convinced them to trust their motives for this. To them, this was the promised push to break the larger clans, for it was them who had began to fence in their homes. Not directly though, but by exploiting those small clans that they held sway over. These small families had settled around the huts of the great clans, fencing in their own huts and incidentally thus creating a fence around the entirety of the larger clans holdings. To anyone who had paid attention to these things, it was obvious that they had orchestrated this to make it less likely that they would be censured for their actions, instead aiming to shift blame towards others as they always did.
When the envoys of the council came, mostly made up out of hunters and clans-men from the lesser groups, it was obvious what would happen. The clans that had been turned into buffers did not resist the orders given in the slightest, some even joining the envoys in their task, but the great clans themselves would not budge. To them, this order was nothing but an insult and one that they did not even have to take seriously. Their leader was still Tall-Peak, or so they claimed while affixing quite a few derogatory terms to his name. So the envoys pressed the orders they had come to carry out, the clans doubling down on their refusal and beginning to insult the council, claiming it a worthless waste of time that had no authority in this village. These comments were taken poorly by the envoys and it came to blows among the groups. It was just fists at first, then a spear was thrown, but the envoys were not yet ready to start a war over this and retreated before any were killed. Blood was spilled though, and fear griped the village as they saw the wounded envoys moving back towards the center to report to the council.
Attempting forced relocation of clans-folk.
Stability Check: 32 + 10 (Perseverance) - 40 (Existing Instability) - 30 (Forced Relocation) = -32 -> -4 Stability
Stability now at 2/10
Then everything happened far too fast. The elders of the Elm-Clan and Speaker-Clan came together to talk about what their reaction to the events would be, their warriors barring any not belonging to these clans to even approach the huts used for the talks. A runner arrived from beyond the river, having tried and succeeded in finding Red-Wolf, who just now camped near the cracks with her hunting band, having planned to return to the village by tomorrow, but now determined to march fast and reach it by nightfall. The council congregated too, desperately trying to reassure the people coming to it and trying to make sense of the conflicting reports of what was going on in the village, while most hunkered down in their huts to weather the storm brewing around them.
Then another runner came, reporting that the great clans had called their warriors to their compounds and arming them. Hot on his heels came a messenger dispatched by them. He had been a village hunter, but now he was no more, for burning logs had been used to char his hands into uselessness. Among his arms he carried the severed head of Tall-Peak. Apparently he had tried to calm down the clans, but failed utterly. The message that the mutilated man was meant to convey to the council had been simple: "You are next."
Last chance for order. Tall-Peak tries to prevent an uprising.
28 - 80 (Instability) = -62 -> Far too little. Far too late.
Chieftain Tall-Peak has been slain.
White Clans rise up against the Council.
Loyalties
Great Persons:
Snow-Fox: 48 -> Undecided. Will follow Red-Wolfs lead.
Red-Wolf: 50 + 20 (Minor Clan sympathies) = 70 -> Hesitant, but following the council.
Villager Factions:
Hunters: 58 + 30 (Snow-Fox) = 88 -> Loyal to the council.
Matrons: 37 -> Small bands of rioters formed. Most stay formally loyal to the council, but won't act on its behalf.
Minor Clans: 85 + 30 (Earlier Success) = 115 -> Ready to die for the council.
Clan Factions:
Elm-Clan: 6 - 30 (Antagonized by the Council) = -24 -> Open Rebellion
Speaker-Clan: 48 - 30 (Antagonized by the Council) - 20 (Opportunistic) = -2 -> Open Rebellion
The Elm-Clan and Speaker-Clan have risen in rebellion, seeking to dethrone the council and take control of the village. What was the councils response?
[] Try diplomacy one last time. Send people to talk sense into them. (Pick at least one of the following.)
-[] Send Great Hunter Snow-Fox.
-[] Send Skaog, now technically Chieftain, Red-Wolf.
-[] Send Great Elder Winter-Sun.
-[] Send Great Matron Crocus.
[] Offer the two clans a seat in the council for each of them. They can gain the power they want without bloodshed.
[] Disband the council and call for the whole tribe to gather to find a new way to rule itself.
[] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.
AN: The winning plan had "memorable results" written all over it. It did not disappoint.
I will refrain from updating the front-page until the body-count is in.
Well i changed my vote to that plan without thinking to hard... When the vote closed i realized that were forcibly relocating them... and i was like DERP...
LUCKILY most of the White Clans are on our side, the minor clans being the majority the only ones rebelling other than some rioters from the matrons are the influential but overall SMALL major clans.
[] Disband the council and call for the whole tribe to gather to find a new way to rule itself.
Leaning towards this, or diplomacy
We have the biggest advantage, we have the minor clans who are the vast majority of the White Clans on our side. We only have small bands of rioters from the Matrons so were good on that front for now.
Reforming our tribe, diplomacy or war is what we need.
[X] Try diplomacy one last time. Send people to talk sense into them. (Pick at least one of the following.)
-[X] Send Skaog, now technically Chieftain, Red-Wolf.
[X] Try diplomacy one last time. Send people to talk sense into them. (Pick at least one of the following.)
-[X] Send Skaog, now technically Chieftain, Red-Wolf.
I can also be swayed towards political reform. I will not ever go for giving 2 clans 2 seats on the council.
The hole has been far too deep for Planning to dig it any deeper.
It might even save you, since it gives Red-Wolf an advantage when approaching the village in case of combat.
On that note, keep in mind that sending someone to do diplomacy has a very high chance of only getting back their severed heads if they don't succeed. The major clans are done with playing nice.
The hole has been far too deep for Planning to dig it any deeper.
It might even save you, since it gives Red-Wolf an advantage when approaching the village in case of combat.
On that note, keep in mind that sending someone to do diplomacy has a very high chance of only getting back their severed heads if they don't succeed. The major clans are done with playing nice.
Thats fine, sucks that the minor clans are the most wanting of cannibalism; however this civil war will call for major cultural reform in a way and now i am tempted to Political reform
That or just killing the small major clans.
Forced integration was a dumb idea. I didn't think people would actually vote for that or I would have advocated harder for my own plan. Just removing the fences would have been more than enough.
Anyway, for the vote:
[X] Offer the two clans a seat in the council for each of them. They can gain the power they want without bloodshed.
I honestly wanted to do something like this earlier so it seems like a no-brainer to me. Hopefully we'll also be able to add a seat for the minor clans later, but even if we don't then this arrangement still gives us a 3-2 advantage and furthers the integration.
