Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

[Tomcost]

The artisans managed the production required for sustaining the hunters so it was expected for that to happen.

 

[Azel]

Spoiler: Winning Vote

[X] Plan The People Yearn, Unification Beckons
-[X] Try to influence a faction.
--[X] Hunters
---[X] Remind the Hunters of the days when their actions brought them acclaim and not ridicule. The Wolf's raids on Brushcrest, from whence the secret of farming was said to be learnt. The sacking of Softhill, from whence the People learned how to herd and make cloth. What separates these days and deeds from those of the so-called "Great" Deer? Only the same evil that lead an elderly man to name himself equal to the greatest heroes the Valley people had ever known-- a certain vice, a certain hubris, the lusting after glory for the sake of glory. In the days of old, the hunters acted in concert with the others of the tribe. The Great Wolf raided Brushcrest and brought back seed, not baubles; so that Serfs might work to feed the Hunters, Artisans, and Fishes alike in the days to come. She thought not of her personal valor but of the way the designs of the whole tribe might be realized by her courage and the strength of her spear-arm. There is a glory that is born of vanity; and there is a glory that is born of the love and acclamation of one's fellow villagers. If the Hunters might set aside this vainglory, and, like Great Wolf before them, work alongside the Artisans and the Fishes as the strong spear-arm and the defenders of the Valley People, then surely in time they will once again walk in the footsteps of their great forefathers.
----[X] 1 Culture
--[X] Artisans
---[X] Speak to the Artisans about Broken-Shell of Brushcrest and the Makar. The Artisans were wise, of course, to realize that the hunters had become overcome with a lust for glory, and also to have recognized the necessity of trade, but the lowlanders have been violent and treacherous before. As the seasons turn, the wind may blow another way. Once again great hosts may clash in the lowlands, and if the Valley People pledge their troth in alliance with one party or another, blood will be spilled and trade ruined. Would it not be wiser for the Valley People to be to the lowlanders as they are to the Clansmen: neutral parties with whom all trade, all respect? And if something like the Makar arise again, or others turn greedy eyes to the wealth of the Valley Peoples, would it not be wise to be armed and strong in hunters so as to defend their interests? The Artisans have a unique opportunity to unite the tribe, but they should avoid being like the vainglorious hunters before them, running roughshod over all others in the Valley. If the Artisans will but be a little generous at the onset, as a trader might be with a new customer, then they might, over time, receive a wealth of gratitude in return. (Artisan: Diplo Ties -> Trade Ties but No Permanent (Entangling) Alliances, Rehabilitate Hunters as Defenders, Don't Force Hegemony).
----[X] 2 Culture
[X] Organize a meeting to try and establish a new High Council.
-[X] Artisans, Hunters, Fishes, Bone Tenders (as Mediators)

As the years went on, the people of the valley seemed to grow together again. The arguments and distrust of years past seemed gone from Greenvalley and even old distrust towards the hunters was lessening. With their sustained efforts, the Bone Tenders had moderated those who had not followed Willows madness so long ago and by now, their children and their children's children had become humbler people. Still they wanted to prove themselves by great deeds and spawn tales of their own, but they had lost their arrogance. Instead of leading at the expense of others, they were willing to serve a cause and thus the Valley People.

It was not solely the Bone Tenders work though, for at the same time, the Artisans had begun courting the hunters. There were worried whispers about the former clansfolk that had taken up residence around Laketop in the last years. Gladly they proclaimed their allegiance to the Fishes and while there were no signs that they would raise their spears against the people of the valley, many who supported the Artisans still felt that having their own armed folk wouldn't go amiss. Thus the remaining hunters soon took up the cause of the Artisans, many even moving to the village of Lakerest to take advantage of the large and so far unused hunting grounds around the new village.

Meanwhile the Bone Tenders were focusing their attention on those supporting the Artisans, preaching of caution and restraint. They argued that distance should be kept from the lowlanders and their alliances, for they were passing things and bloodshed inevitable among them. This time though, their efforts not only failed, but led to fierce resistance. To many it sounded like the words of the Fishes, praising isolation and claiming that contact with the lowlanders would only bring ruin. But had the lowlanders not gotten stronger from their alliances, so much so that they could gather mighty hosts that outnumbered the Valley People's hunters by far? Was that not a strength that should be embraced and taken advantage of? As far as the Artisans were concerned, it was folly to discount these alliances and instead they wanted to enter into them.

It did not help matters that what the Bone Tenders preached sounded suspiciously like what the Fishes kept telling to the few groups of people in the valley who were still neutral in the conflict. The serfs were picking their sides too, many going to the Fishes but some also being pushed away by them and into the Artisans arms. Soon enough, there was no one left who had not picked a side and while things stayed peaceful, it seemed again as if conflict was becoming inevitable. And then calamity struck, tearing open old wounds and grievances.

Over the years, the hunters brought less and less game. The herds were getting smaller, the animals thinner and no one could find a reason for it. At first, it was merely worrisome, but then one year came where the herds were almost gone. No wild goats and yaks came down into the valley. No beavers could be found along the streams and brooks. The deer were few and far in between, many sickly and not good for eating at all. While far from starvation, the valley knew hunger that winter and soon blame was cast.

The Fishes were blaming the Artisans for not supplying their hunters properly, claiming that the problem could have been avoided by more obsidian tips for spears and arrows. And had they not enticed so many hunters to leave the valley? Certainly that too had contributed, because it meant the hunters couldn't range as far. The problem was that they were not entirely wrong in their allegations, for the amount of tools and weapons delivered to Laketop had indeed been rather low in the past years and everyone knew it. Instead, the Artisans had even enticed people to leave their orchards and apprentice under them, leaving many trees untended to.

That however did not discourage them from making their own allegations. Of sabotage they spoke, claiming the fishes were starving the valley on purpose to get their way. Some went even so far as saying that the sparse game was a punishment by the ancestors for the Fishes having tried to pervert the Bone Tenders. Worryingly, many agreed with that idea. Quite a few people on both sides of the conflict felt that the Bone Tenders were neglecting their duties, pointing to the overgrown gardens of the White Halls and proclaiming that the Bone Tenders were not providing wisdom in guidance, but were meddling for their own ends. That they also had been calling to assemble a gathering and form a new High Council just added fuel to these speculations and accusations.

Spoiler: Food

Greenvalley

Name	Current	Maximum	Multiplier	Rolls	Result
Gathering	2​	-	1.7​	3​	5.1​
Hunting	3​	-	1.6​	0​	0​
Fishing	5​	5​	1.5​	4​	6​
Orchards	5​	6​	1.6​	5​	8​
Cattle Raising	2​	2​	1.5​	4​	6​

Total: 25
Consumption: 28
Balance: -3

Lakerest

Name	Current	Maximum	Multiplier	Rolls	Result
Gathering	1​	-	1.9​	1​	1.9​
Hunting	1​	-	1.8​	0​	0​
Fishing	0​	0​	1.5​	0​	0​
Orchards	1​	0​	1.6​	1​	1.6​
Cattle Raising	0​	0​	1.5​	0​	0​

Total: 4
Consumption: 3
Balance: +1
Pop Growth: 9 -> No growth.

News trickling in from other places were almost forgotten in between these tensions. While no great trade had been established with the Goat People or lowlanders, their caravans were now regularly making stop in Lakerest, giving the Artisans a chance to learn more about the other people. Many old preconceptions about the lowlands were shattered in those days and it was with quite some shame that many of the Valley People learned just how far their knowledge of their neighbors was out of date.

The tale of Sparrow had not ended where the Valley People's tales of the Red Rivers were ending. Instead, he had ventured to the west and presented himself at the court of the Vile Butcher Makar. He had served that court for years, winning battle after battle against the tribes that had been rallied by Brushcrest. In this time, he helped them adapt to new ways of fighting and brought discipline and honor to the bloodthirsty hosts. But the court was growing wary of his power and influence and thus planned to have him killed. Sparrow saw through their tricks though and marched his host to the village of Makar himself. There he found the palace empty though, the Vile Butcher nowhere to be found and in his stead only lying courtiers that pretended to rule in his name.

So he cleansed the palace of their presence, leading the slaves and his soldiers likewise in a battle so grand it defied description. Many died on that day, but Sparrow survived and once the dead had been burned, he was the one whom the people choose to lead them. Henceforth the village was renamed Sparrowhome and his descendants still ruled there to this day. He made peace with Brushcrest after his ascensions and while his grip on the villages of Riverbend, Oaklade and Red Earth were much lighter then that of the court he had slain, they still were loyal to his line.

In the south, near the great sea, Brushcrest was leading another group of tribes. Both Roiling Waters and Shallow Lake paid homage to Brushcrest, trading sea shells and salt in return for wood, dyes and other things brought from the many trade routes the village had established. Only the village of Goldenfields, ruled by people who had strong ties to the western steppe, was more or less neutral between these two alliances. However, in recent generations, the Trading Village had been established to foster friendship and cooperation between Swallowhome and Brushcrest, culminating in an agreement to defend each other against outside foes.

To this, the Goat People were outsiders. A few generations ago, some of their number had braved to explore the lowlands, making sure to skirt around the mountains were man-eating monsters were supposed to live. They had come upon fishers from Brushcrest and soon trade had been established with caravans coming from the peaks of the great mountains down to the Trading Village. Much of what the Goat People sold though was not of their own making, but instead made by the Ox People who lived between two rivers east of the mountains and who were in conflict with a group called the Deer People in recent times. The Artisans were most curious about these people, especially how they made the brown containers that the Goat People called pottery, but the nomads still remembered the time when they and the Valley People had been enemies, thus keeping their lips tight and tales short.

Only to the north of the valley, where Speaker's Rest had become the home of most if not all clansfolk was quiet. There, the clansmen and the new Speaker were busily trying to expand their new homes to accommodate clan after clan who decided to settle there. A great temple had been erected around the stone that had given the settlement it's name and the mines producing the blue and green dyes used by the clansmen were making so much of it that there was talk about finding other trade partners to the north. Food remained an issue for the people, especially since both gatherers and hunters were struggling to produce as much as before when they could work one seasons in the mountains and another in the lowlands. None the less, the village was flouring and the council of three that was leading it was well liked among it's people, with a reputation for fairness and wisdom.

The contrast was stark and the Bone Tenders couldn't help to worry about it. While the world around them had found unity and prosperity, the Valley People were still locked into their struggle caused by the dissolution of the High Council. But could that be fixed? Could they really hope to create a new High Council with the Fishes and the Artisans at each others throats? Their own standing had suffered from the events of the last years and the plan to host a conference seemed increasingly like wishful thinking. Sure, they could try, but could they also succeed? Maybe it would be better to postpone the idea for now, some argued, while others were advocating more drastic measures.

What did the Bone Tenders decide to do in regards to the reforming of the High Council?
[] Don't try to reform the High Council right now. (Turn-vote will follow if this option wins.)

[] Have the conference and try to mend the differences, lest they fester even more in coming years.
-[] (Optional) Claim that you are acting on direct orders by the ancestors. (Increased influence over proceedings, but might have long-term consequences.)
-[] (Optional) Invite the clans as a moderating influence. (Fishes and Artisans will dislike this.)
[] Approach the Council of Three in Speaker's Rest and try to legitimize it as the new High Council.
[] Write-In

Spoiler: Current Situation

The Valley People
Symbol: The heads of a bear, a wolf and a man.
Government: Absolute Directorial Despotism - Mandate of the Ancestors

Spoiler: Details

General rules
- Meetings of all Councils will be held in private. However, each person attending the council may bring an additional guest, who may listen but not speak unless invited to speak by the council.
- All groups setting out to interact with outsiders must contain a representative of the their Council. Low Council representatives can only do so for groups smaller than their own community with larger groups being the domain of the High Council.
- All matters affecting more than two communities must be brought to the High Council. Matters between two communities may be resolved by their Low Councils if they can come to a consensus, or otherwise be brought to the High Council for arbitration.
- Disputes between individuals and families within a community are to be resolved by the Low Council of the community.
- High Councilor, Low Councilor, Mediums, Priests and Vice-Councilors positions are exclusive. Upon gaining one title they lose all others of the list

Organization structure
- High Council:
-- The High Council will be the highest authority of the state, referring to the three who comprise supreme authority.
-- The High Council is advised by Mediums, one selected by each Low Council. The Mediums can be a member of any community.
-- The High Council can appoint representatives from any community to speak with their authority for specific tasks when the Council cannot be present themselves.
-- Each member of the High Council must maintain at least one, and no more than three Vice-Councilors for their council duties. These Vice-Councilors must be taught how to perform and assist with the duties of a High Councilor. They can be chosen from anyone under the authority of the High Council, except for High Councilors, Low Councilors and Mediums.
- Low Council:
-- The Low Councils refer to the local authorities, each governing one permanent(lasting at least one full lifetime from birth to death) community comprising of at least three population units of adults. Such a community may be fixed or mobile in nature, so long as someone can be born into it and die belonging to it.
-- Each Low Council consists of two leaders chosen by the community, and one leader chosen by the High Council. The community leaders must be members of the community, but the High Council can choose either a local or send a representative.
-- The Low Council can appoint representatives from their community to speak with their authority for specific tasks when the Council cannot be present themselves. They may appoint representatives from other communities with the agreement of either the High Council or the other community involved.
- Priests
-- The priests must maintain an advisor to the High Council at all times, who will be allowed to listen to and advise any decisions.
-- The priests may send one advisor to any Low Council, who will be allowed to listen to and advise any decisions.
-- The priests must preferentially raise their new initiates from the orphans of the People where available. Where there are more orphans than need for new initiates, they will be chosen by lot.

Succession
- High Councilors are elected with a majority vote by the High Council and the Mediums of each Low Council from the pool of Vice-Councilors. At least two thirds of the Mediums must be present to pass such a vote.
- Mediums are selected with a majority vote by the Low Council they represent. Their status can be revoked by the same process.
- One Low Councilor seat of each community is fixed to the High Council's appointment, if this Low Councilor is removed by any means, they will be replaced by the next appointed representative of the High Council.
- The remaining two Low Councilor seats are chosen by the community they govern. Groups with preexisting selection methods may use their traditional methods, or permanently change their process to a simple majority of their community.
- High Councilors will step down in the following events:
-- Voluntary abdication, which will start the process of raising a new councilor while they remain a councilor until their successor is chosen.
-- Death
-- Incapacitation such that they are no longer able to perform their duties for more than a season.
- Low Councilors will step down in the following events:
-- Half or more of the community they govern votes to replace them.

Religion: Faith of Bones
Capital: Greenvalley


Cultural Ideas

Spoiler: Mandate of the Ancestors - Identity (Inactive)

At the dawn of time, the people were lost and separated. But in these trying times emerged three great persons that led them together again to build a brighter future. Like the Mountain Father, the Black Bear and the White Wolf, the Council of Three rules to this day, the wisdom of the ancestors guiding them on their path. No higher authority can there be in this world.

Effects:
- gain +2 on combat morale
- gain +2 on stability checks
- troops will never disobey orders or join revolts, but may participate in civil-wars normally
- allow the deployment of military units to temporarily raise stability
- may use Subjugation actions even outside of wars with that war-goal
-- can destroy Pops to eliminate cultural values of a Faction
-- can destroy Pops to eliminate a Faction entirely
-- can forcibly resettle Pops
- using subjugation actions or deploying military units to establish order raises mood
- weaker polities receive -1 Morale when facing someone with this value
- must always treat other polities as lesser and can't interact with them as peers
- Council of Three must always be the highest authority in the state
- factions unable to alter social order or political system, but can still try to gain control of the government
- social change occurs slower, but sometimes breaks violently
- during a civil war, other groups can claim the Mandate of the Ancestors to gain legitimacy
- this idea will be destroyed when the government collapses or the polity is absorbed by another polity

Spoiler: Perseverance - Ideal

Challenges come and go, but only the steadfast will remain in their wake. Neither directionless action, nor hiding from them will save the people from these trials. One must face these challenges no matter how daunting they seem, and though the price they reap might be dire one will grow stronger for these losses.

Effects:
- gain +1 on stability checks
- gain +1 on Inspiration stat of all commanders
- stability loss when radically changing a started course of action due to difficulties

Spoiler: Blood Rites - Ideal

Blood is life. It is shed when we come into the world and all too often it is shed when we leave it. To willingly give it to another, be they living or dead, is the highest gift one can make, for the giver offers nothing less then a piece of his life. Never should such a deed be done lightly and gravest misfortune will come to those who befoul such sacred acts.

Effects:
- gain +1 on stability checks
- religion more likely to spread to populations who have no codified rites
- religion less likely to be subsumed by other faiths
- lower risk of betrayal by oath-sworn subjects sharing this value
- factions more resistant to size and influence loss, except when caused by population drop
- lower chance to detect faction plots

Spoiler: Mastery of Nature - Fad

A man might build himself a home. He can stack stone and wood to find shelter against the elements and make a place he can call his own. Yet many man can build many homes, and with dedication and effort, even greater works they can accomplish. The world is there for man to shape and to make it more pleasing for himself.

Effects:
- bonus to development of landscaping technologies
- large-scale landscaping projects increase mood
- diplomacy malus of -1 with all groups who venerate nature
- malus to stability checks and increased mood loss from natural disasters

Current Factions

Artisans
Description: Having their support chiefly among the miners and artisans of Cliffside, Crackhome and Greenvalley itself, this group is second in prestige only to the hunters and more numerous too.
Size: 7 (Large)
Influence: 7 (High)
Mood: 7 (Happy)

Main Issues: Stability, Ressources, Trade
Secondary Issues: Diplomatic Ties


Fishes
Description: Named after a joking answer to the question who they support, the fishers of Laketop have slowly drifted apart from the rest of Greenvalley to form their own distinct group. While wielding little direct influence in Greenvalley, the amount of food they contribute to the valley gives them still some leverage.
Size: 7 (Large)
Influence: 6 (Average)
Mood: 3 (Unhappy)

Main Issues: Peace, Stability, Segregation
Secondary Issues: Isolationism


Bone Tenders
Description: While they generally try to stay out of political affairs, the Bone Tenders wield quiet some influence among the population and are known to try and keep the peace among the people in times of strife.
Size: 1 (Tiny)
Influence: 7 (High)
Mood: 5 (Content)

Main Issues: spread of Faith of Bones, honoring the Ancestors, Neutrality
Secondary Issues: Peace


Settlements

Spoiler: Greenvalley

Greenvalley
Location: Clearing in the forest near a river bend.
Size: Large Tribe
Development: Long House settlement

Stability: 5 / 10
Stability Check Bonus: +2
Mood: 4 / 10
Military Experience: 4 (Regular)
Diplomatic Experience: 5 (Regular)
Dominant Factions: None
Modifiers: Succession Crisis

Spoiler: Map

Minor Villages:
- Crackhome - Limestone Quarry Village
- Cliffside - Obsidian Quarry Village
- Laketop - Fishing Village
- White Halls - Holy Site with Pilgrim Village
- Rivercrossing - Village

Population:

Type	Number	Culture	Faction	Notes
Workers	20	Valley People	Fishes (13)
		Valley People	Artisans (7)
Hunters	3	Valley People	Artisans (1)	1x Regular Infantry
			Fishes (2)	2x Light Infantry
Artisans	5	Valley People	Artisans (4)	4x Basic Goods -> Production

Buildings:

Name	Upkeep	Effect
Holy Site - Faith of Bones	0.6 Production	3 Culture
Pilgrim Village	1 Food	can generate 1 Culture of own or friendly culture, or create 1 own Culture in friendly polity
Stone Wall	0.2 Production	defensive bonuses in combat

Active Trades:
- give 0.7 Production to White Clans for 1 Dye (Azurite)
- give 1 Culture and 0.2 Production to Lakerest

Resource Production:

Name	Current	Maximum	Bonus
Gathering	2	-	+30% (Base) +20% (river) +20% (low area utilization) Total: +70%
Hunting	3	-	+30% (Base) +10% (hunting dogs) +20% (forested terrain) Total: +60%
Fishing	5	5	+30% (Base) +20% (Advanced Dugouts) Total: +50%
Orchards	5	6	+30% (Base) +10% (forested terrain) +20% (river) Total: +60%
Cattle Raising	2	2	+30% (Base) +20% (river) Total: +50%
Clay Mining	1	3
Limestone Mining	1	1
Obsidian Mining	1	1
Woodcutting	2	4
Silver Mining	1	1
Unassigned Workers	0	-
Unassigned Artisans	1	-

Production & Culture:

Name	Task	Production	Culture
Artisans	Basic Good -> Production	+4
Holy Site	Base Income		+3 (Valley People)
Pilgrim Village	produce Valley People Culture		+1 (Valley People)
Luxury Goods	1 Unit of Obsidian (basic conversion) 1 Unit of Dyes (Azurite) (basic conversion) 1 Unit of Silver (basic conversion)		+3 (Valley People)
Trade Balance		-0.9	-1
Building Upkeep		-0.8
Pop Upkeep		-0.6
Cultural Ideas Upkeep			-5
Total		+1.7	+1

Spoiler: Lakerest

Lakerest
Location: On a small lake where the Gentle River and the Goat River meet.
Size: Small Settlement
Development: Long House settlement

Stability: 8 / 10
Stability Check Bonus: +2
Mood: 8 / 10
Military Experience: 3 (Green)
Diplomatic Experience: 5 (Regular)
Dominant Factions: Artisans

Population:

Type	Number	Culture	Faction	Notes
Workers	2	Valley People	Artisans (2)
Hunters	1	Valley People	Artisans (1)	1x Regular Infantry

Buildings:

Name	Upkeep	Effect
-	-	-

Active Trades:
- Receive 1 Culture and 0.2 Production from Greenvalley

Resource Production:

Name	Current	Maximum	Bonus
Gathering	1	-	+30% (Base) +20% (river) +40% (very low area utilization) Total: +90%
Hunting	1	-	+30% (Base) +10% (hunting dogs) +20% (forested terrain) +20% (low area utilization) Total: +80%
Fishing	0	0	+30% (Base) +20% (Advanced Dugouts) Total: +50%
Orchards	1	2	+30% (Base) +10% (forested terrain) +20% (river) Total: +60%
Cattle Raising	0	0	+30% (Base) +20% (river) Total: +50%
Clay Mining	0	0
Woodcutting	0	0
Unassigned Workers	0	-

Production & Culture:

Name	Task	Production	Culture
Trade Balance		+0.2	+1 (Valley People)
Pop Upkeep		-0.2
Cultural Ideas Upkeep			-5
Total		0	-4

Technologies

Spoiler

Warfare
- Throwing Spear
- Thrusting Spear
- Stone Knives
- War-Axes
- Archery

Hunting
- Endurance Hunting
- Ambush Hunting
- Stalk Hunting
- Drive Hunting
- Pit Traps
- Hunting-Dogs

Resource Gathering
- Gathering
- Stone Chipping
- Tanning
- Woodcutting
- Mining

Crafting
- Stoneworking
- Woodworking
- Basketweaving
- Primitive Sewing
- Masonry

Building Materials
- Hide
- Wattle and Daub
- Wood
- Stone
- Limestone Plaster

Transportation
- Dugout canoes
- Advanced Dugouts

Sustenance
- Hunting
- Gathering
- Spear Fishing
- Hook & Line Fishing
- Smoking
- Orchards

Domestication
- Wolves / Dogs
- Goats & Sheep

Miscellaneous
- Snow Shoes
- Winter Coats

Click to shrink...

---

AN: No, you didn't roll badly on the calamity table. The hunters just collectively decided to utterly fail their food production rolls. Things went downhill from there.

 

[thefoolswriter]

great now we have a successor state in the making

 

[Azel]

great now we have a successor state in the making

Click to shrink...

Depends on your definition of a successor state.

 

[Pyro Hawk]

My thoughts is don't claim to speak on behalf of the ancestors, but instead make an ultimatum. Either the People come together and form a new High Council… Or shatter the symbol of the High Council and dissolve the Mandate, for all of the Valley People, by forsaking Unity, have lost claim to it.

 

[nat_401]

The unity of the Clans as they settle could see them claiming the mandate of the ancestors if tensions don't die down soon, going ahead and claiming direct ancestor guidance could work but any mistakes we make will have magnified effects. Inviting the Clans might force the Artisans and Fishes to try to save face in front of them but it might convince them that Greenvalley won't regain the mandate anytime soon and someone else needs to step up.

 

[Tomcost]

Okay, I have no freaking idea about what to do now. They don't want to be allied, so what do we do about that? Do we help to dissolve one faction directly?

 

[Walker Of Chaos]

Leaning towards claiming the Ancestors ordered the conference and inviting the Clans. We need a third party to offset the Fishes and Artisans and it's becoming rapidly clear we are falling behind the neighbors. We need unification and soon.

EDIT We should definitively also try buttering up with Sparrow Home.

 

[thefoolswriter]

I think the artisans are going to break away from the people at this point they have all they need to form an independed state warriors food and the trade links to make up for what they lack

 

[Satar]

I cannot believe the arrogance of the Artisans at this point. We spend 2 Culture and they won't even bend on a secondary objective, and now they are even casting aspersions on the one group trying to keep the Valley People together.

Still, I think we need to unify this turn, or else expect the worst.

I think the artisans are going to break away from the people at this point they have all they need to form an independed state warriors food and the trade links to make up for what they lack

Click to shrink...

It's becoming a legitimate worry. Before, every group was to a degree interdependent. But every turn we hemorrhage Culture and every turn the Fishes and the Artisans grow more and more independent.

But it's a gamble, going through with the meeting. In the worst case we implode this turn.

 

[thefoolswriter]

I cannot believe the arrogance of the Artisans at this point. We spend 2 Culture and they won't even bend on a secondary objective, and now they are even casting aspersions on the one group trying to keep the Valley People together.

Still, I think we need to unify this turn, or else expect the worst.



It's becoming a legitimate worry. Before, every group was to a degree interdependent. But every turn we hemorrhage Culture and every turn the Fishes and the Artisans grow more and more independent.

But it's a gamble, going through with the meeting. In the worst case we implode this turn.

Click to shrink...

at this point im looking to integrate the white clans as I think Artisans will break away and if they do we need to teach the price of treachery or excommunicate them I so them as a lost cause

 

[Walker Of Chaos]

I don't think there is too much worry of the Artisans physically breaking away (with the exception of Lakerest), way too much of their wealth and power is bound to the land. No the worst case scenario is probably just plain old civil war, with the Artisans likely leveraging Brushcrest for support.

 

[thefoolswriter]

I don't think there is too much worry of the Artisans physically breaking away (with the exception of Lakerest), way too much of their wealth and power is bound to the land. No the worst case scenario is probably just plain old civil war, with the Artisans likely leveraging Brushcrest for support.

Click to shrink...

and with bushcrest vassalizing the artists if they win as a condtion of their support

 

[Satar]

I don't think there is too much worry of the Artisans physically breaking away (with the exception of Lakerest), way too much of their wealth and power is bound to the land. No the worst case scenario is probably just plain old civil war, with the Artisans likely leveraging Brushcrest for support.

Click to shrink...

If they used lowlander troops in a civil war, I would never forgive them. It would be an unforgivable and despicable act.

 

[Satar]

At the Conclave, I think we might allow the Artisans to make allies with the proto-kingdom of Sparrowhome, but no more. I think we can justify an alliance with Sparrowhome by a loophole; as Sparrowhome is a settlement forged by Sparrow, who was one of the Valley People, and thus not a foreigner, and his line, however time may have wrought them, are still of the Valley People. Furthermore I think we might convince the Fishes of this, as when the lowlanders came in force it was Sparrowhome that basically spared us a sack. Surely that must count for something.

But the Artisans have to accept this and not insist on making alliances with just about everyone; they've got to concede something somewhere or this won't be a compromise, but outright Artisan tyranny.

 

[GildedSergeant]

I'm at kind of a loss as of what to do... We need to unify fast, but if we fail now it will have disastrous results. The arrogance of the artisans is rather irritating, and I don't think we'll be able to get them to fall in line with the others. That combined with them having slightly more influence makes me think that it may be more productive to try and get the fishes to further soften on their position. Maybe mention that the lowlanders of the past are not the lowlanders of the present, and that we share even more blood and culture than we thought due to Sparrow's influence and lineage?

 

[Walker Of Chaos]

Hmm I wonder just how much cultural info regarding us propagated from Sparrow.

 

[Azel]

The Sparrow People are culturally very distinct from the Valley People and if you want to bank on Sparrow coming from Greenvalley, you are about a century too late for that. It's unlikely that the lowlanders would even acknowledge that fact.

To them, where he came from is a much less relevant part of oral history then what he did in the lowlands.

 

[DXCS]

new here but i think that might be the chance for a major reform
1. the ancestors speak and they are furious, the valley people have broken the mandate and insulted them
2. because of the inability of the valley people to work together and restore the mandate the ancestors will impose their ruling
3. the hunters are the main culprits for the downfall of the mandate, their recent misfortune on their hunts not the result of shoddy tools or sabotage but the punishment of the ancestors
4. to appease the ancestors three hunters have to be sacrificed to the flame at the temple and hunters will be barred from serving on the high council for five generations (the hunters that joined after the mandate broke down are considered innocent in the matter and will be spared)
5. the ancestors have decided that the entire valley is the sacred site of the ancestors where no nonbeliever may walk
6. the ancestors congratulate the artisans to their wise desicion to start trading with the lowanders as well as building the new village, and the fishes to their gerneous concession to accepting it under the condition that no nonbeliever may enter the valley
7. the ancestors warn the artisans of hubris, to reject any compomise with the fishes on the matter of alliances after the fishes have conceded on the matter of trade and the new village is a mistake - the example of the hunters shows what the consequneces of trying to impose your will on the entire tribe and not taking the valid concerns of others into consideration are
8. the ancestors decide that it is to early to decide the matter of aliances: while the artisans have made good arguments about their worth, the ancestors tell the tribe that those that forget history are doomed the repeat it and remind the tribe of the disasterous consequences of trusting broken shell of Brushcrest. Rushing into agreement with him without knowing all the facts was folly. Therefore the matter shall be decided after two genrations have passed and the valley people know if the lowlanders can be trusted.
9. the bonetenders are always neutral in all nonreligious matters and are advisors that seek to clam tensions and mediate between quarreling parties. The boneterders were only doing their duty in trying to find a compomise between the fishes and artisans. That they advised the artisans to make a concession after the fishes alredy had made their concession is only natural. Claims that the bontenders are stooges of the fishes is a blated attempt to undermine them and the faith itself. The ancestors consider this to be blasphemy, the loudest agitator shall burded alive in the flame at the temple to appease them. All further transgessions against the faith should be handeled in the same matter.
10. the ancestors remind the tribe that it is their will they all should work together and that disagreements should be resolved through discussion and compromise in the high council
11. the ancestors congratulate the serfs to their developement, their vital role in the tending to the orchards and the temple garden is pointed out. Especially when the mandate broke down and the temple gardens grew over the importance of their work became obvious to everyone.
12. the ancestors remind the tribe that everybody form from highes to the lowest of the valley people has his role and society and without eberybody fulfilling their role society breaks down
13. the ancestors declare that the time has come for the serfs to be repesented on the high conuncil and to be include in the discussions of the tribe
14. in the future there shall be no more than one high council member from any group to avoid one group tying to dominate the high council
15. the ancestors command that the high council is immediately restored with serfs, fishes and artisans each choosing their most trusted member to sit on the coucil, in the future there will be a return to the usual procedures of choosing high council members with the two changes made in 14 and 4
16. the ancestors warn of dire consequences for any that try to undermine their ruling to foster division
17. the ancestors stress that they only had to raise their voice because the mandate broke down and that they would prefer to stay silent in the future - that they had to speak in the first place is a sign of the grave failings of the valley people

 

[Ghostdevil]

Is our army still in the far eastern mountains doing fuck all? Can they at least return to the south river and fuck around there? At least then they will be following the original plan even if its a couple turns to late.

 

[Walker Of Chaos]

Is our army still in the far eastern mountains doing fuck all? Can they at least return to the south river and fuck around there? At least then they will be following the original plan even if its a couple turns to late.

Click to shrink...

It's been decades. Most likely they just got themselves killed, alternatively they might have decided to just go "fuck it" and settled somewhere else.

 

[Ghostdevil]

It's been decades. Most likely they just got themselves killed, alternatively they might have decided to just go "fuck it" and settled somewhere else.

Click to shrink...

I hope not, thats just fucking salt inducing, and makes me almost want to drop the quest tbh. Since Its not how any one thought the vote was going for >.<

 

[GildedSergeant]

Is our army still in the far eastern mountains doing fuck all? Can they at least return to the south river and fuck around there? At least then they will be following the original plan even if its a couple turns to late.

Click to shrink...

It's been four turns since we last heard of them... They most likely eventually bit off more than they could chew or just decided never to come back.

EDIT: 'd

 

[Ghostdevil]

It's been four turns since we last heard of them... They most likely eventually bit off more than they could chew or just decided never to come back.

EDIT: 'd

Click to shrink...

Yea, I can't be happy about that because it'd mean we effectively voted to piss everyone off and then decided to kill all our military pops off.
This is the absolute worst way this could have gone and its all because of poor wording rather than any genuine mistake in planning.

 

[GildedSergeant]

Yea, I can't be happy about that because it'd mean we effectively voted to piss everyone off and then decided to kill all our military pops off.
This is the absolute worst way this could have gone and its all because of poor wording rather than any genuine mistake in planning.

Click to shrink...

Tbh, I'm a bit mixed on the idea. On the one hand, it sucks that we'll have to rebuld our military. On the other, it could be a blessing in disguise seeing as how likely we thought a hunter-led civil war would be if they came back. And once we stabilize, we can more easily control and influence an initially smaller number of pops to actually make them behave.