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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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Duesal said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

And here we see Planning truly biting us in the ass.

That was a hell of a lot faster than I thought it'd be.
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Yeah, sure, it was planning, of course. It wasn't stupidly trying to merge our society with another that was far larger than ours, and had ideas and ideals completely antithetical to ours. It wasn't taking the resulting chimeric entity and then shooting it twice by not only angering the loyalists (villagers) by tolerating cannibalism but also trying to poach the minor clans from the great clans.

No, Duesal, this debacle is what you get when you have a severe lack of any planning and a surfeit of unreasonable optimism.

gutza1 said:
[X] Try diplomacy one last time. Send people to talk sense into them. (Pick at least one of the following.)
-[X] Send Skaog, now technically Chieftain, Red-Wolf.
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I understand why people might go for diplomacy but it's a bad idea. The villagers(old loyalists) need assurances that we (the council) haven't been subverted or culturally polluted to the point of no longer representing their interests. The minor clans (new loyalists) need assurances that we (the council) will defend them from the oppression that the great clans have exerted upon them. Being irresolute and wavering, at this juncture, will only convince our supporters to quit in disgust and any opportunists to pick the other side.

What we need is to crush the great clans, militarily, and recentralize control. We have far better odds now that we've absorbed the minor clans. Go, go, onwards to war!

[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.
 
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Ghostdevil said:
Thats fine, sucks that the minor clans are the most wanting of cannibalism; however this civil war will call for major cultural reform in a way and now i am tempted to Political reform
That or just killing the small major clans.
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Mind you that the minor clans are fine with doing their cannibalism in private if it means getting rid of the Elms and Speakers. If only the minor clans remained, the practice would probably quietly fade away in a few generations due to a lack of any strong proponents.
 
Azel said:
Mind you that the minor clans are fine with doing their cannibalism in private if it means getting rid of the Elms and Speakers. If only the minor clans remained, the practice would probably quietly fade away in a few generations due to a lack of any strong proponents.
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So your saying that this civil war is an opportunity?
Sweet,
[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.
 
Satar said:
Yeah, sure, it was planning, of course. It wasn't stupidly trying to merge our society with another that was far larger than ours, and had ideas and ideals completely antithetical to ours. It wasn't taking the resulting chimeric entity and then shooting it twice by not only angering the loyalists (villagers) by tolerating cannibalism but also trying to poach the minor clans from the great clans.

No, Duesal, this debacle is what you get when you have a severe lack of any planning and a surfeit of unreasonable optimism.
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And it is a gorgeous mess of utter chaos. @Azel, do our Great Hunters ever improve from the trials they overcome? Kind of like abstract XP in a way.

[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.
 
Hmm. After some consideration, I'm worried that Red-Wolf's potential murder at the hands of the White Clans would further destabilize the union, as the marriage uniting the Clans and our tribe would no longer exist.

[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.
 
Ghostdevil said:
So your saying that this civil war is an opportunity?
Sweet,
[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.
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Everything is an opportunity if viewed from the right angle. All I'm saying is that you have a good pretext to do politics by stabbing a bunch of people you don't agree with.
 
Peaceful re-assimilation doesn't seem as if it will work at this point. Too many hurt feelings and too many diametrically opposed ideals. We can only integrate so many things since cultural diversity causes stability hits over time, and assimilation causes stability hits in the moment. Ideally we flip the board and reset the political landscape, while keeping the current practices. The easiest way to do that is to give them council spots or fully reorganize the leadership model we use and push against changes against the current status quo.

The fastest way is to simply kill them off in another war, but we've had quite a few of those recently already.
 
Azel said:
Everything is an opportunity if viewed from the right angle. All I'm saying is that you have a good pretext to do politics by stabbing a bunch of people you don't agree with.
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Stabbing people with a sharp piece of metal, bone or wood is always the basis of all politics! Whether it be metaphorical or literal.
 
Deliste said:
Why do we get negatives from one group being upset but no positives from other groups being very happy?
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Because one group is actively stirring trouble (thus the penalty) and the happy groups having no leverage to stop them.

Bonuses to stability rolls from Factions would only happen in specific political systems and circumstances. Like an Imperial China like state, where a very happy Bureaucrat Faction could actively work to suppress unrest caused by others.
 
[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.

Could've just told them to piss off into the mountains for a year but here we are.
 
Deliste said:
[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.

Could've just told them to piss off into the mountains for a year but here we are.
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And lose out on all the tech they gave us for awhile and have a hard struggle with extremely low population while risking them coming back and ending us.
If we win (and we have a vast majority of both the clans and the village on our side) We pretty much relegate cannibalism to fad level and only have to wait for it to fade soon.
 
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Ghostdevil said:
And lose out on all the tech they gave us for awhile and have a hard struggle with extremely low population
If we win (and we have a vast majority of both the clans and the village on our side) We pretty much relegate cannibalism to fad level and only have to wait for it to fade soon.
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IF we win we still need to see what our pop looks like afterwards and I highly doubt anyone that voted for the merger had all this nonsense planned out.
 
[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.

I hope the rest of the voters take the time to consider their plans more thoroughly from now on. This result could have been avoided but now we are on the verge of societal collapse. Lets hope the dice favor us.
 
Deliste said:
IF we win we still need to see what our pop looks like afterwards and I highly doubt anyone that voted for the merger had all this nonsense planned out.
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We have literally the vast majority of the population both ours and THEIRS on our side, In least we just straight up RNG out of existence we should win,
You may highly doubt that, but this scene was nigh inevitable with the traits that the village hated as well as the fact that with our planning trait making civil wars more likely means that there was little chance that an uprising wouldn't happen. I knew this when i voted the merger (Well not the planning trait obviously) and i voted for it because the merger was the BEST CASE SCENARIO.
 
It has honestly seemed to me from the prior update that the ones most strongly against integration were the minor clans, who were (like our elders) a comparatively small and toothless faction.

The two major clans were both very happy with us, and a crit fail combined with several stability checks pushed them into open revolt in a single turn.
The Matrons, who were our largest and most influential faction, are also revolting for reasons of "low die rolls", which is meh.

It would be nice if we could just murder the offending leaders and hope everyone else falls in line, but I can already tell the bloodthirst has taken over the voters.

The Dice Gods giveth and they taketh away.
 
Ghostdevil said:
We have literally the vast majority of the population both ours and THEIRS on our side, In least we just straight up RNG out of existence we should win,
You may highly doubt that, but this scene was nigh inevitable with the traits that the village hated as well as the fact that with our planning trait making civil wars more likely means that there was little chance that an uprising wouldn't happen. I knew this when i voted the merger (Well not the planning trait obviously) and i voted for it because the merger was the BEST CASE SCENARIO.
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We've been at the whims of RNG since this quest began so I wouldn't discount it.

We didn't know their traits, subfactions, motivations and political history at the time of the vote to merge, let alone that we'd get most of them siding with us so I'm pretty damn impressed at your prescience.

Interesting to see how Ruthlessness will be effected by mass (extended)kinslaying, maybe even cannibalism is impacted here if they don't want to take the spirits of The Speakers and The Elms into themselves, they've resented them longer than they've known us.

Does Planning take a hit from the failed coup or double down and consider the failure due to a lack thereof.

I think the only major decision so far not involving significant violence was the decision to move to the Valley.
 
Deliste said:
We didn't know their traits, subfactions, motivations and political history at the time of the vote to merge, let alone that we'd get most of them siding with us so I'm pretty damn impressed at your prescience.
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We did know at least two traits at the time. Cannibalism and Clans. And our Tribe HATED the cannibalism, but we kept with it anyways.
 
Ghostdevil said:
Thats fine, sucks that the minor clans are the most wanting of cannibalism; however this civil war will call for major cultural reform in a way and now i am tempted to Political reform
That or just killing the small major clans.
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Better cannibalism than the stupid 'spawn a rival civ' if discontent gets too low, which fortunately happened too fast here to trigger.
 
[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.

Seriously, fuck these guys. I hope Snow-Fox and Red-Wolf tag team the shit out of them with their dice bonuses.


Raichu1972 said:
It has honestly seemed to me from the prior update that the ones most strongly against integration were the minor clans, who were (like our elders) a comparatively small and toothless faction.

The two major clans were both very happy with us, and a crit fail combined with several stability checks pushed them into open revolt in a single turn.
The Matrons, who were our largest and most influential faction, are also revolting for reasons of "low die rolls", which is meh.
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Yeah, it turns really nonsensical when you put it that way. I mean, okay, I can buy the 'SUDDENLY A COUP' from the major clans if I have to, but the Matrons?? 'Oh, okay, let them take power by butchering our children and then turning us into slaves. If they don't eat us first. Oh, and we are one of the factions that stand more to lose influence if they win. Meh, its cold outside.'


Edit: I'm now a Hunter backer to the hilt, at least IC. They barely complain, keep the tribe fed, kill its enemies, all for the other factions to screw the village while they go away so they don't all starve.
 
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[X] The time for words and gestures has passed. Send out the hunters and the clans loyal to the council to crush the rebels.

I'm not sure why anyone expected, or even hoped for, any better of a result. That this would happen just seems like it should have been expected.
 
bigbow said:
but the Matrons?? 'Oh, okay, let them take power by butchering our children and then turning us into slaves. If they don't eat us first. Oh, and we are one of the factions that stand more to lose influence if they win. Meh, its cold outside.'
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The Matrons behaved rather understandable in this case.
By the way, slaves are not there yet, so that worry is moot. They did not want a war and probably gambled to be the mediator between the clans and the villagers and come out with juicy influence out of this. But when they saw that everything has escalated quickly, they got cold feet and sat in their huts to not get poked by a random spear.

Them favoring the Elm/Speaker combo is because they feel they would get more gratitude if they help the weaker side over the top. On the other hand, they want to not really get involved, that is why they are still mostly at their homes.
 
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