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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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veekie said:
Note this DOES give them more power, by breaking up more influential clans and dispersing them.

Low Influence means their main means of resistance is by doing things poorly, which they did. They can't lose influence they never had by being dispersed, since they already ARE dispersed.

Its the high influence clans who are flashpoints. By pitting them against the minor clans, you only ensure that they will fight integration all the way.

We're looking to melt divisive clan structures down, not reinforce them
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Elm and Speaker are in our pocket for the most part. I doubt they're the ones who will be causing the bulk of this trouble. It's the minor clans who are the problem, even if they can hardly influence anyone.

Voting to disperse the minor clans will trigger instability among them, which is their secondary issue since we can't honestly help them change leadership nor desire to. Their cultural idea -Identity will trigger from the instability and folks from the minor clans will migrate as a result.

I honestly don't have a problem with doing this later, but I'd rather our demographic situation rectify itself first, if we want to go there.

Could you plz wait for us to be in stronger position. These clans, unlike us, are divided later since they so recently formed into the larger entity we know. We can play on this, especially since the minors have low influence.
 
Orisha91 said:
Elm and Speaker are in our pocket for the most part. I doubt they're the ones who will be causing the bulk of this trouble. It's the minor clans who are the problem, even if they can hardly influence anyone.

Voting to disperse the minor clans will trigger instability among them, which is their secondary issue since we can't honestly help them change leadership nor desire to. Their cultural idea -Identity will trigger from the instability and folks from the minor clans will migrate as a result.

I honestly don't have a problem with doing this later, but I'd rather our demographic situation rectify itself first, if we want to go there.

Could you plz wait for us to be in stronger position. These clans, unlike us, are divided later since they so recently formed into the larger entity we know. We can play on this, especially since the minors have low influence.
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I strongly disagree. The dissolution of the minors into the village plays into the greater White Clans desire of integration, when Elm and Speaker do not want integration.

There isn't really a better time to do it than before the battle lines are laid down and calcified by us.
 
If you're gonna piss someone off either way you may as well do it all at once and start on making them less pissed off.
 
[X] Plan: Glacial Change

Getting real sick of the way things are headed...
 
Azel said:
How so? I do hope it's not an issue with the quest itself.
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Nah, GMbro, you fine. I was just bitchin' about us not being a conquering, militaristic civilization or isolationist and instead going for SV-style make friends and research victory. Maybe it's because I'm a history buff, but I've noticed that there's quite a few types of civilizations that SV never ever goes for. For example, nomadic horse-lords ranged across the wide expanse of the steppe from the Carpathian mountains to Inner Mongolia, and washed over settled societies, sweeping away everything in their way. But we've never had a civ quest featuring them. Or a civilization like the Phoenicians-- diplomatic and savvy traders. Nope, it's always early agriculture > early domestication > agricultural society settled in one place. That's not a bad thing, mind, but every single quest still running is like that these days.
 
Satar said:
Nah, GMbro, you fine. I was just bitchin' about us not being a conquering, militaristic civilization or isolationist and instead going for SV-style make friends and research victory. Maybe it's because I'm a history buff, but I've noticed that there's quite a few types of civilizations that SV never ever goes for. For example, nomadic horse-lords ranged across the wide expanse of the steppe from the Carpathian mountains to Inner Mongolia, and washed over settled societies, sweeping away everything in their way. But we've never had a civ quest featuring them. Or a civilization like the Phoenicians-- diplomatic and savvy traders. Nope, it's always early agriculture > early domestication > agricultural society settled in one place. That's not a bad thing, mind, but every single quest still running is like that these days.
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I've thought long and hard about offering a nomadic start for exactly that reason, but when plotting out what kind of gameplay that would entail, I've decided against it. Doing nothing but hunting, grazing, moving and fighting would get stale very quickly. Horse-nomads are certainly interesting, though I feel they are simply boring after a few turns. The only long-term goals there are either "more burning and pillaging" or "conquer something and become sedentary".

In regards to a trading based civ, that is very much on the table. It would just require less isolationism and more exploring to get some options in that direction. Right now, you are kinda stewing in your own little valley with your internal problems.
 
Satar said:
Nah, GMbro, you fine. I was just bitchin' about us not being a conquering, militaristic civilization or isolationist and instead going for SV-style make friends and research victory. Maybe it's because I'm a history buff, but I've noticed that there's quite a few types of civilizations that SV never ever goes for. For example, nomadic horse-lords ranged across the wide expanse of the steppe from the Carpathian mountains to Inner Mongolia, and washed over settled societies, sweeping away everything in their way. But we've never had a civ quest featuring them. Or a civilization like the Phoenicians-- diplomatic and savvy traders. Nope, it's always early agriculture > early domestication > agricultural society settled in one place. That's not a bad thing, mind, but every single quest still running is like that these days.
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I'd be up for Isolationist Research Victory, an impregnable valley within which the rest of the world can only dream of the wonders.

Horse Raiders too, we will need fresh blood, resources, inspiration etc. but eventually there will be a radius of safe distance around our Valley, horses will be necessary to push beyond that without other cities etc.
 
I'm afraid that technology will advance piece-meal based on your current activities and not be something that you can force. As a result, more population and a more diverse polity are more likely to produce inventions. Likewise, diplomatic and especially trade ties to other people make it much more likely to gain new things developed elsewhere and bring fresh ideas to your population.
 
Azel said:
I'm afraid that technology will advance piece-meal based on your current activities and not be something that you can force. As a result, more population and a more diverse polity are more likely to produce inventions. Likewise, diplomatic and especially trade ties to other people make it much more likely to gain new things developed elsewhere and bring fresh ideas to your population.
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River Raiders with a Great Walled Valley City.

We'd travel far enough we should able to raid one place, trade another, and meet more new people than we would otherwise so that should cover diversity and idea trade.
 
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Deliste said:
River Raiders with a Great Walled Valley City.

We'd travel far enough we should able to raid one place, trade another, and meet more new people than we would otherwise so that should cover diversity and idea trade.
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That would work out quite differently, though it's hardly what I would call isolationist.
 
Azel said:
Well, entirely isolationist cultures do have a tendency to stagnate or even regress in their development. ;)
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I just want to be The Shining City and I've been keen on the river system ever since it was mentioned.

Dugouts when we get Fishing because Wood Research is happening already?

Dugouts and Gathering tools could work well together, grazing the riverside for kilometres should be pretty effective I'd think.
 
Deliste said:
I just want to be The Shining City and I've been keen on the river system ever since it was mentioned.

Dugouts when we get Fishing because Wood Research is happening already?

Dugouts and Gathering tools could work well together, grazing the riverside for kilometres should be pretty effective I'd think.
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You don't have any wood-crafters so far, so the probability of getting dugouts is extremely low.

It's one of those things you are far more likely to learn from someone else.
 
bigbow said:
Really lost on what to do. The integration really made our gameplay out of wack.
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I mean, the general idea so far is to keep all the factions happy while also integrating the clans and creating specialist vocations to meet the tribes needs.

If you're talking about long term plans, then there is really no way to achieve any of the ones mentioned as a Stone Age Civilization

Any sort of conquest would require a heavy integration phase with large chances of revolt or people just leaving for somewhere else.

Going heavy on trade requires having resources important enough to trade, having transportation to make large amounts of trade worth it, as well as knowing enough civilizations to trade with.

Going full isolationist city requires having the population density for an actual city, so that's also off the table.

I think people should focus more on our immediate situation over long term plans that might never have the conditions to really be viable.
 
veekie said:
I strongly disagree. The dissolution of the minors into the village plays into the greater White Clans desire of integration, when Elm and Speaker do not want integration.

There isn't really a better time to do it than before the battle lines are laid down and calcified by us.
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What I'm getting at is that dispersing them will erode whatever population we get from them since their cultural idea of identity will activate.
Deliste said:
If you're gonna piss someone off either way you may as well do it all at once and start on making them less pissed off.
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I get that. I'm saying the people who will be pissed off will migrate in numbers that lower their population until things stabilize.

Why sacrifice manpower when we'll get waifi on the council soon and regain an action?
 
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