tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X]Plan why though
Strategic Arms Quest 3/2: Armor Edition
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan science better
Contest 6: Testing 1
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
After sending out the no-thank-you letters to Thryssen and Krupp, and then the 'no we mean it fuck off' letter to Thryseen, you got to work with the Ulm Testing Ground about doing your cavalry vehicle testing. You managed to book two weeks, and deliveries of the prototype vehicles were done pretty easily. For operating crew, Folgers managed to round up his company (who were currently in stand-down since his regiment needed yet more tanks) and get everyone over there without too many problems. The Tortoise modification couldn't be expanded to seat eight (which was your basic grouping of cavalrymen until further notice) so if you decided to do any testing with the dismounts it was going to be at a notable disadvantage.
First up was the winding track around the base that you tested tanks on all those years ago. Fifteen kilometer circuit race over the main road, an entrenching field, the artillery range, a scree slope, and a bombed-out maintenance road the Luftwaffe used as a moving target bomb range when they were testing out dive bombers. Apparently the old maintenance road had been lengthened to avoid some still-undetonated two hundred kilo bombs from the now-aborted Strategic Range Bombing Program, so that was that.
After about an hour of screwing around in the parking lots as the crew got used to their vehicles and dozens of humorus screwups (including one where the crew of the MANN CO submission stole an old sheet steel target and put the Fenrus submission in their cargo compartment so they could have tracks in their tracks) the race was off.
Surprisingly, the half-motorcycle half-track came in first, with a time including two stoppages of twenty three minutes. Stoppage one was a jam in the carburetor getting rattled closed in the artillery field traversing a crater, while stoppage two was a track snap after the scree slope. In all, the driver and passengers said that while it wasn't a comfortable ride, it kept it's speed well and the transmission shifted cleanly unless you were going into reverse. The steering was a bit kick-y if you tripped the differential breaks by accident, but other than that it worked extremely well.
The Tortise Mod 1 came in second at a time of thirty one minutes with five stoppages. Four of these were tire failures, in one case with the wheel sheering it's lugs and rolling away angrily, while the last issue was getting stuck in a rather large crater and requiring the passengers to get out and bodily lift the blasted thing out. The driver's comments were that the wheel was unfamiliar and didn't have enough turning authority, requiring him to spin it like a roulette wheel while constantly messing with the clutch and five speed gearbox. In the test, they also broke the consumer-grade dashboard and two of the dials in the instrument cluster, as well as one of the bench seats and severely damaged the suspension.
The MANN CO halftrack came in last at forty minutes with one malfunction where the clutch cut out in a gear shift, requiring a vehicle restart and one of the crew to climb underneath the vehicle with a wrench and length of scavenged pipe to reset the system while the engine was off. The driver's commentary was that the clutch stuck terribly, the four-speed transmission had a tendency to jam on the third gear, the driver's seat suspension gave out, the right wing mirror fell off on the scree slope, the steering had the mechanical advantage of pushing wet rope, and the machine made a terrible ratcheting noise when using the reverse gear. In addition, the crew in the open-back compartment complained of the lack of seating or handholds, getting tossed around and bruised by their borrowed infantry kit.
The GBA-92, as up-armored by the company themselves, came in at twenty nine minutes and with one major malfunction, a damaged front right tire. The driver explained it was fairly pleasent to drive, however it had the distinct disadvantage of being mostly a civil-grade vehicle on the interior- their holsters and assorted and sundry kit had beaten the wooden interior elements to bits, and the cloth seats were badly damaged by the now-traditional tanker's dirks holstered across the small of the back in case a crew member needed a long enough prybar to open a stuck hatch. The passengers had a decent enough ride, and had no major complaints except an oppressive atmosphere.
The CCC modified GBA-92 came in at thirty five minutes, with seven major malfunctions. The first three were crash-induced tire and axle damage, as the driver's seat was somewhat foreward of the front axle, leading to severe disorientation of the drivers and more than a few crater exploring incidents. Four and five were both track failures, as the newer, wider tracks were a tad big for their road wheels and had a tendency not to track true on the suspension in a hard turn, while the last was a complete failure of the number two left side drive axle, which was easily handled by the passengers. Said passengers found their compartment highly cramped, but considered it well protected considering how it didn't suffer any internal damage when a tree ramming and limb dropping on top didn't majorly damage it.
Repeating the course with trailers resulted in the problem that all the offroad trailers became irreparably damaged by the scree slope, and testing could not be finished. You also had to buy apology brandy for the Ulm Testing Grounds commandant because you broke five of his supply trailers.
Endurance trials were done on the dirt roads and farms around Ulm, with new trailers and full loads. In theory, they were supposed to cross two hundred and fifty kilometers.
Practically, everyone had issues with that.
The Tortoise Mod 1, while completing the course of travel, got stuck in the spring mud several times and had severe traction control issues on hills and deep mud areas, in one cases requiring a tow out via a passing farmer. In addition, it also developed an oil pan leak at some point, and the back right suspension strut gave out completely for no foreable reason. On returning, it was held together with panzergaffe and bailing wire, and promptly collapsed near-dead on the parking lot. After chasing away the company chaplain who attempted to declare it dead on arrival, the driver and co-driver recounted their experiences and explained that power assists in the transmission gave out halfway through, and the gearbox had severe issues with mud gunking up the third to second shift pattern.
Fenrus' contraption didn't complete the whole course of travel on it's internal tanks due to fuel exhaustion by a thin margin, but it did finish thanks to external supplies carried in a secondary container mounted on the back. It got itself stuck on nine separate occasions, most of which were solved with the unditching logs carried by the two-axle cargo trailer for this express purpose. After dealing with the mud, the main issue was the fact the drive train had the habit of trying to disengage the clutch when the power wheels were under too much strain as a safety feature. It also drank oil in rough, high-rpm handling needed to extract it, but this wasn't a bad thing since it kept running. The driver's opinion was that it needed a oil level gauge readable during operation, a clutch disconnect saftey override to get emergency torque, and track extenders for average driving. The passengers, meanwhile, wanted something more cushioning than bare steel in the back, and would happily take wood paneling or something.
The MANN CO halftrack completed the course on its own internal fuel and four times the expected oil consumption and after two clodged fixes to the radiator, which had the tendency to not cool enough during high-rpm engine operation due to poor airflow under the armored hood. It handled the mud and poor terrain well enough, but had mechanical difficulty in the clutch and transmission jamming more than a Werser machine pistol with half-loaded ammo, the mirrors fell off again, and the crew riding in the back were sufficiently injured that they were given medical leave for two days and light duty for the rest of the week.
The GBA 92 had no problem completing the course as written, and their largest notable problem was a ten minute stop when mud clogged the under-hood ventilation scheme and the truck needed ten minutes or so to cool off.
The CCC-modified GBA-92 halftrack had several severe issues with the mud, and did not complete the course without large amounts of assistance to escape entrapment at one point. It could not confidently pass through deep spring mud, and on several instances lost tracks due to clogging. The previously damaged and repaired axle gave out again, as well as another driving axle on the other side. Both front tires failed at points, and the engine overheated numerous times and at several points the clutch failed to allow a gear change. The driver was physically ill from fumes escaping into the fairly enclosed driving compartment, and the passengers were disorientated when the emerged into daylight the few times they could help extract the vehicle in testing.
For stationary weapons testing, the ranges were set up and for once you had reasonably good weather. Targets were at fifty meters and every hundred meters hither until five hundred meters, at which point you honestly needed a good tripod to hit things reliably. Targets were also placed so as to test the fields of fire on each vehicle.
Fenrus' halftrack half motorbike thing went first. Without any major issue it managed to engage all targets within ninety degrees off resting bore (resulting in the front arc from broadside to broadside able to be engaged) with an additional forty-five degrees off bore achievable if the gunner was willing to clamor over the driver's seat. In the forward arcs it was accurate to about three hundred meters using the stock adjustable sight on the gun, past which it took a saturation fire to hit the targets. In the arcs requiring clamoring around the driver's position, anything further than a hundred yards required a saturation attack to confirm hits.
The MANN Co halftrack, interestingly enough, did not ship with a true pintle mount but rather a model 65 tripod top fixture for it's Mg.51 and therefore had some outlying results in that it could, accurately, provide non-saturation fire from forty-five degrees off bore accurately out to nearly eight hundred meters. However, accuracy rapidly dropped off from that due to a slightly cramped operating space for the gunner, and from forty six to one hundred twenty degrees off bore accuracy was only good to four hundred fifty meters. The final sixty degrees could not be fired on at all, leaving the vehicle defenseless from the rear.
The GBA-92 that was up-armored directly was not tested, but the CCC modification was- and it turned out quite well. With full, three hundred and sixty degree engagement out to three hundred eighty meters, the otherwise problematic vehicle had no issues defending itself or others.
The Tortise Mod 1 fared rather poorly here, being only able to engage twenty-four degrees off bore with any degree of accuracy, pushing thirty if the gunner was willing to contort himself in the narrow roll cage of the vehicle and was willing to bump his foot on the radio set. The fire wasn't very accurate either, only good out to two hundred and fifty meters at best.
The armor testing was done the next day, against standard Mg.51 and I.Gew 49 rifles for standard fires, the G.Kar 69 anti-tank rifle firing the 6.5x80mm anti-tank cartridge from early in the war, and the PzJ.Gew 70 firing 13.2x96 anti-tank cartridge from late in the war. Weather was cloudy with a strong northwest breeze, with all guns firing from one hundred fifty meters.
First up was the motorcycle half track, by which now several of the crews of the other vehicles had developed a particular hate for due to the fact it didn't exist in a perpetual maintenance hell and actually let the crew have situational awareness. Because it was nominally unarmored, the dedicated anti-tank rifles were not used. Due to its small size, the first minute of fire by machine gun and ten rifles did fairly little, but once they had dialed in on the target it took only another twenty seconds of fire to detonate the light machine gun ammunition and start a nasty oil fire. The company chaplain was allowed to perform last rites, and the vehicle was moved into the Ulm Testing Ground vehicle graveyard for future generations to wonder what you were thinking.
The GBA-92 was next, and was rendered inoperable within a minute as the front end exploded into steam from a burst radiator, and shortly after caught fire when the sparking battery caught a fuel line on fire. Damage analysis of the crew substitute pigs was inconclusive due to damage from fire extinguishing, but it was judged likely they would have survived if not for the fact the vehicle was on fire and could possibly explode.
The CCC GBA-92 went in as soon as the last vehicle went out, and fared much better. The driver and co-driver were conclusively dead after three minutes, and the topdeck gunner was as well after two on the technicality of a headshot, or otherwise it would have been minute four. The engine was rendered inoperable at minute five, which was rather depressing as that's when the anti-tank rifles were ready to go.
The MANN CO halftrack was next, and much like the CCC design it lost it's top gunner to headshot early. The engine lost the radiator and oil pumps fairly quickly at minute three, but the driver and co-driver with window shields down lasted until minute six and the G.Kar 69s opened up, cutting through the battle shutters fairly easily. On inspection, the rear engine bay firewall was still intact, and if not for the shutter damage the operating crew would have been just fine while the engine soaked up bullets. Thankfully, the vehicle did not ignite under fire.
The Tortise Mod 1 was destroyed in under a minute, bursting into a rather dramatic fireball when the fuel tank was holed and a tracer round caught the cloud of spreading fumes. Post-shoot analysis was that this was not designed to take bullets, and the armor was effective only at making more shrapnel to shred the engine compartment.
Finally, you got down to the part that Anne-Marie had drilled into you the entire time you were in Ostafrika: how much did it cost?
Aside from equipping costs, which were the same in terms of adding the pintle gun and helmet rests and religious symbols so that bored chaplain didn't start complaining the Machine Spirits were malnourished, things worked out kind of odd.
(For comparison, a rifle is about one thaler these days, an Lmg.71 is about forty five thalers, and a W-5 is about two hundred sixty thalers. Your salary as a teaching oberstleutnant is about forty-five thalers yearly plus benefits worth an additional thirty thalers.)
The Tortise Mod 1 was about fifty thalers sixty kreutzer, and parts costs for peace use came out to nine thalers yearly (outside fuel and PoL requirements)
That thing Fenrus made was about fifty eight thalers twenty kreutzer, and parts costs per peacetime year came out to six thalers yearly. Fenrus also told you that off the books he'd send you one if it got adopted and gave him a good chance to honorably retire early and keep his whole pension package.
The GBA-92 as modified by GBA would run about sixty six thalers one thirty kreutzer, and parts costs per peacetime year would come out to eleven thalers yearly. Potsdaman told you off the books they could probably get the price down some more if there was a large enough contract and they could open up a new shop, but if you modified the design costs would probably shoot up.
The CCC modified GBA-92 would run about eighty five thalers one hundred kreutzer, and parts cost per peacetime year would run ten thalers yearly. Jung has told you that price is pretty thin, but modifications to the design wouldn't be hard unless you wanted a radical redesign and they had to change the roll cage or armor cage. Jung also told you she'd be happy to show you a tour of Commorate Casting Corporation sometime, and help personally tailor any work you had to present to a board.
The MANN CO design came in at the most expensive, running at ninety thalers apiece even, with yearly maintenance costs of twelve thalers.
Well. Time to think.
VOTES
(plan votes plz)
(Reminder: you can adopt multiple vehicles in the end: adopting one and leaving the rest for further refinement is possible)
[] ADOPT a vehicle?
[] MODIFY a vehicle?
[] REJECT a vehicle?
First up was the winding track around the base that you tested tanks on all those years ago. Fifteen kilometer circuit race over the main road, an entrenching field, the artillery range, a scree slope, and a bombed-out maintenance road the Luftwaffe used as a moving target bomb range when they were testing out dive bombers. Apparently the old maintenance road had been lengthened to avoid some still-undetonated two hundred kilo bombs from the now-aborted Strategic Range Bombing Program, so that was that.
After about an hour of screwing around in the parking lots as the crew got used to their vehicles and dozens of humorus screwups (including one where the crew of the MANN CO submission stole an old sheet steel target and put the Fenrus submission in their cargo compartment so they could have tracks in their tracks) the race was off.
Surprisingly, the half-motorcycle half-track came in first, with a time including two stoppages of twenty three minutes. Stoppage one was a jam in the carburetor getting rattled closed in the artillery field traversing a crater, while stoppage two was a track snap after the scree slope. In all, the driver and passengers said that while it wasn't a comfortable ride, it kept it's speed well and the transmission shifted cleanly unless you were going into reverse. The steering was a bit kick-y if you tripped the differential breaks by accident, but other than that it worked extremely well.
The Tortise Mod 1 came in second at a time of thirty one minutes with five stoppages. Four of these were tire failures, in one case with the wheel sheering it's lugs and rolling away angrily, while the last issue was getting stuck in a rather large crater and requiring the passengers to get out and bodily lift the blasted thing out. The driver's comments were that the wheel was unfamiliar and didn't have enough turning authority, requiring him to spin it like a roulette wheel while constantly messing with the clutch and five speed gearbox. In the test, they also broke the consumer-grade dashboard and two of the dials in the instrument cluster, as well as one of the bench seats and severely damaged the suspension.
The MANN CO halftrack came in last at forty minutes with one malfunction where the clutch cut out in a gear shift, requiring a vehicle restart and one of the crew to climb underneath the vehicle with a wrench and length of scavenged pipe to reset the system while the engine was off. The driver's commentary was that the clutch stuck terribly, the four-speed transmission had a tendency to jam on the third gear, the driver's seat suspension gave out, the right wing mirror fell off on the scree slope, the steering had the mechanical advantage of pushing wet rope, and the machine made a terrible ratcheting noise when using the reverse gear. In addition, the crew in the open-back compartment complained of the lack of seating or handholds, getting tossed around and bruised by their borrowed infantry kit.
The GBA-92, as up-armored by the company themselves, came in at twenty nine minutes and with one major malfunction, a damaged front right tire. The driver explained it was fairly pleasent to drive, however it had the distinct disadvantage of being mostly a civil-grade vehicle on the interior- their holsters and assorted and sundry kit had beaten the wooden interior elements to bits, and the cloth seats were badly damaged by the now-traditional tanker's dirks holstered across the small of the back in case a crew member needed a long enough prybar to open a stuck hatch. The passengers had a decent enough ride, and had no major complaints except an oppressive atmosphere.
The CCC modified GBA-92 came in at thirty five minutes, with seven major malfunctions. The first three were crash-induced tire and axle damage, as the driver's seat was somewhat foreward of the front axle, leading to severe disorientation of the drivers and more than a few crater exploring incidents. Four and five were both track failures, as the newer, wider tracks were a tad big for their road wheels and had a tendency not to track true on the suspension in a hard turn, while the last was a complete failure of the number two left side drive axle, which was easily handled by the passengers. Said passengers found their compartment highly cramped, but considered it well protected considering how it didn't suffer any internal damage when a tree ramming and limb dropping on top didn't majorly damage it.
Repeating the course with trailers resulted in the problem that all the offroad trailers became irreparably damaged by the scree slope, and testing could not be finished. You also had to buy apology brandy for the Ulm Testing Grounds commandant because you broke five of his supply trailers.
Endurance trials were done on the dirt roads and farms around Ulm, with new trailers and full loads. In theory, they were supposed to cross two hundred and fifty kilometers.
Practically, everyone had issues with that.
The Tortoise Mod 1, while completing the course of travel, got stuck in the spring mud several times and had severe traction control issues on hills and deep mud areas, in one cases requiring a tow out via a passing farmer. In addition, it also developed an oil pan leak at some point, and the back right suspension strut gave out completely for no foreable reason. On returning, it was held together with panzergaffe and bailing wire, and promptly collapsed near-dead on the parking lot. After chasing away the company chaplain who attempted to declare it dead on arrival, the driver and co-driver recounted their experiences and explained that power assists in the transmission gave out halfway through, and the gearbox had severe issues with mud gunking up the third to second shift pattern.
Fenrus' contraption didn't complete the whole course of travel on it's internal tanks due to fuel exhaustion by a thin margin, but it did finish thanks to external supplies carried in a secondary container mounted on the back. It got itself stuck on nine separate occasions, most of which were solved with the unditching logs carried by the two-axle cargo trailer for this express purpose. After dealing with the mud, the main issue was the fact the drive train had the habit of trying to disengage the clutch when the power wheels were under too much strain as a safety feature. It also drank oil in rough, high-rpm handling needed to extract it, but this wasn't a bad thing since it kept running. The driver's opinion was that it needed a oil level gauge readable during operation, a clutch disconnect saftey override to get emergency torque, and track extenders for average driving. The passengers, meanwhile, wanted something more cushioning than bare steel in the back, and would happily take wood paneling or something.
The MANN CO halftrack completed the course on its own internal fuel and four times the expected oil consumption and after two clodged fixes to the radiator, which had the tendency to not cool enough during high-rpm engine operation due to poor airflow under the armored hood. It handled the mud and poor terrain well enough, but had mechanical difficulty in the clutch and transmission jamming more than a Werser machine pistol with half-loaded ammo, the mirrors fell off again, and the crew riding in the back were sufficiently injured that they were given medical leave for two days and light duty for the rest of the week.
The GBA 92 had no problem completing the course as written, and their largest notable problem was a ten minute stop when mud clogged the under-hood ventilation scheme and the truck needed ten minutes or so to cool off.
The CCC-modified GBA-92 halftrack had several severe issues with the mud, and did not complete the course without large amounts of assistance to escape entrapment at one point. It could not confidently pass through deep spring mud, and on several instances lost tracks due to clogging. The previously damaged and repaired axle gave out again, as well as another driving axle on the other side. Both front tires failed at points, and the engine overheated numerous times and at several points the clutch failed to allow a gear change. The driver was physically ill from fumes escaping into the fairly enclosed driving compartment, and the passengers were disorientated when the emerged into daylight the few times they could help extract the vehicle in testing.
For stationary weapons testing, the ranges were set up and for once you had reasonably good weather. Targets were at fifty meters and every hundred meters hither until five hundred meters, at which point you honestly needed a good tripod to hit things reliably. Targets were also placed so as to test the fields of fire on each vehicle.
Fenrus' halftrack half motorbike thing went first. Without any major issue it managed to engage all targets within ninety degrees off resting bore (resulting in the front arc from broadside to broadside able to be engaged) with an additional forty-five degrees off bore achievable if the gunner was willing to clamor over the driver's seat. In the forward arcs it was accurate to about three hundred meters using the stock adjustable sight on the gun, past which it took a saturation fire to hit the targets. In the arcs requiring clamoring around the driver's position, anything further than a hundred yards required a saturation attack to confirm hits.
The MANN Co halftrack, interestingly enough, did not ship with a true pintle mount but rather a model 65 tripod top fixture for it's Mg.51 and therefore had some outlying results in that it could, accurately, provide non-saturation fire from forty-five degrees off bore accurately out to nearly eight hundred meters. However, accuracy rapidly dropped off from that due to a slightly cramped operating space for the gunner, and from forty six to one hundred twenty degrees off bore accuracy was only good to four hundred fifty meters. The final sixty degrees could not be fired on at all, leaving the vehicle defenseless from the rear.
The GBA-92 that was up-armored directly was not tested, but the CCC modification was- and it turned out quite well. With full, three hundred and sixty degree engagement out to three hundred eighty meters, the otherwise problematic vehicle had no issues defending itself or others.
The Tortise Mod 1 fared rather poorly here, being only able to engage twenty-four degrees off bore with any degree of accuracy, pushing thirty if the gunner was willing to contort himself in the narrow roll cage of the vehicle and was willing to bump his foot on the radio set. The fire wasn't very accurate either, only good out to two hundred and fifty meters at best.
The armor testing was done the next day, against standard Mg.51 and I.Gew 49 rifles for standard fires, the G.Kar 69 anti-tank rifle firing the 6.5x80mm anti-tank cartridge from early in the war, and the PzJ.Gew 70 firing 13.2x96 anti-tank cartridge from late in the war. Weather was cloudy with a strong northwest breeze, with all guns firing from one hundred fifty meters.
First up was the motorcycle half track, by which now several of the crews of the other vehicles had developed a particular hate for due to the fact it didn't exist in a perpetual maintenance hell and actually let the crew have situational awareness. Because it was nominally unarmored, the dedicated anti-tank rifles were not used. Due to its small size, the first minute of fire by machine gun and ten rifles did fairly little, but once they had dialed in on the target it took only another twenty seconds of fire to detonate the light machine gun ammunition and start a nasty oil fire. The company chaplain was allowed to perform last rites, and the vehicle was moved into the Ulm Testing Ground vehicle graveyard for future generations to wonder what you were thinking.
The GBA-92 was next, and was rendered inoperable within a minute as the front end exploded into steam from a burst radiator, and shortly after caught fire when the sparking battery caught a fuel line on fire. Damage analysis of the crew substitute pigs was inconclusive due to damage from fire extinguishing, but it was judged likely they would have survived if not for the fact the vehicle was on fire and could possibly explode.
The CCC GBA-92 went in as soon as the last vehicle went out, and fared much better. The driver and co-driver were conclusively dead after three minutes, and the topdeck gunner was as well after two on the technicality of a headshot, or otherwise it would have been minute four. The engine was rendered inoperable at minute five, which was rather depressing as that's when the anti-tank rifles were ready to go.
The MANN CO halftrack was next, and much like the CCC design it lost it's top gunner to headshot early. The engine lost the radiator and oil pumps fairly quickly at minute three, but the driver and co-driver with window shields down lasted until minute six and the G.Kar 69s opened up, cutting through the battle shutters fairly easily. On inspection, the rear engine bay firewall was still intact, and if not for the shutter damage the operating crew would have been just fine while the engine soaked up bullets. Thankfully, the vehicle did not ignite under fire.
The Tortise Mod 1 was destroyed in under a minute, bursting into a rather dramatic fireball when the fuel tank was holed and a tracer round caught the cloud of spreading fumes. Post-shoot analysis was that this was not designed to take bullets, and the armor was effective only at making more shrapnel to shred the engine compartment.
Finally, you got down to the part that Anne-Marie had drilled into you the entire time you were in Ostafrika: how much did it cost?
Aside from equipping costs, which were the same in terms of adding the pintle gun and helmet rests and religious symbols so that bored chaplain didn't start complaining the Machine Spirits were malnourished, things worked out kind of odd.
(For comparison, a rifle is about one thaler these days, an Lmg.71 is about forty five thalers, and a W-5 is about two hundred sixty thalers. Your salary as a teaching oberstleutnant is about forty-five thalers yearly plus benefits worth an additional thirty thalers.)
The Tortise Mod 1 was about fifty thalers sixty kreutzer, and parts costs for peace use came out to nine thalers yearly (outside fuel and PoL requirements)
That thing Fenrus made was about fifty eight thalers twenty kreutzer, and parts costs per peacetime year came out to six thalers yearly. Fenrus also told you that off the books he'd send you one if it got adopted and gave him a good chance to honorably retire early and keep his whole pension package.
The GBA-92 as modified by GBA would run about sixty six thalers one thirty kreutzer, and parts costs per peacetime year would come out to eleven thalers yearly. Potsdaman told you off the books they could probably get the price down some more if there was a large enough contract and they could open up a new shop, but if you modified the design costs would probably shoot up.
The CCC modified GBA-92 would run about eighty five thalers one hundred kreutzer, and parts cost per peacetime year would run ten thalers yearly. Jung has told you that price is pretty thin, but modifications to the design wouldn't be hard unless you wanted a radical redesign and they had to change the roll cage or armor cage. Jung also told you she'd be happy to show you a tour of Commorate Casting Corporation sometime, and help personally tailor any work you had to present to a board.
The MANN CO design came in at the most expensive, running at ninety thalers apiece even, with yearly maintenance costs of twelve thalers.
Well. Time to think.
VOTES
(plan votes plz)
(Reminder: you can adopt multiple vehicles in the end: adopting one and leaving the rest for further refinement is possible)
[] ADOPT a vehicle?
[] MODIFY a vehicle?
[] REJECT a vehicle?
Fenrus's thing is the only one worth a damn for the intended job as stated. Full stop. A few trivial revisions (improved seating, maybe the oil gauge) and it will do great. My only concern is that carries very few people for the cost.
Since it's got good towing capacity and the trailers used weren't really up to the challenge, I'm wondering about the possibility of putting the call out for trailers to go with it that can carry either a reasonable quantity of supplies or at least 6 guys in acceptable comfort and can do better off-road than the current standard ones. @7734 , is this a thing we can do?
Since it's got good towing capacity and the trailers used weren't really up to the challenge, I'm wondering about the possibility of putting the call out for trailers to go with it that can carry either a reasonable quantity of supplies or at least 6 guys in acceptable comfort and can do better off-road than the current standard ones. @7734 , is this a thing we can do?
- Location
- Belgium
I just worry it is more suited for police forces than cavalry. It's protection is pretty much nonexistent. On the other hand, if the suspension could be improved, it might be used in roles and tactics that other vehicles can't due to their size (such as surprise attacks by charging out of woods normally considered impassable by vehicles). It seems both of it's breakdowns could have been avoided or mitigated by better suspension. But it already has a very potent suspension, so perhaps the carburetor and track are the things that need a second look. Or it could be it's reliability couldn't be improved much more.
And it's low maintenance requirements and low cost definitely are a plus. It seems like something the cavalry would love, even though it doesn't really protect it's crew. But for 'cavalry charges', exploiting gaps in enemy lines, surprise attacks and general blitzkrieg stuff, it seems the best design.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Those are all things that exist; you guys just fucked yourselves with the testing protocol. One fifty kilos is like... Two medium size dudes. Not even two medium size dudes in soldier kit. The OTL equivalent to Fenrus' nifty thing was used at times as an airplane tractor, and its on the low end of hauling power here!
Point being: y'all need to think bigger. Its been about fourteen years since start of quest, and twelve years since Afrika. Characterization is wasted words, remember? Think that fluffy stuff was just to pad a word count? Nah. It mattered.
Yeah nah you're not getting a better suspension for the weight out of it. The "better" suspension right now won't work on such a small scale, and frankly these tests were way under the bar most of these vehicles had.
On second thought, the GBA-92 actually isn't too bad. The interior needs a little work and it would be great if we could get a gun on it like we asked, but it has some potential. It might complement the guncycle pretty well.
I suspect that the realities of modern warfare have pushed much of our cavalry away from fighting on horseback and towards horses as a mobility aid. Machine guns will destroy horses like nothing else, after all. What we're looking at here is probably less a replacement for horses in old-fashioned cavalry tactics and more the development of mechanized infantry.
Well at its cost its a good buy regardless. Light, reliable, harder hitting than ground infantry and faster.
Its no tank, but its pretty good for infantry support no?
Tiny_Dic
Carbon Cringe Lifeform | Hyperborean Coomer
- Location
- My Room
On an unrelated note, is it just basic military tech expensive, or is the good Oberstleutnant getting underpaid for dealing with this crap?
Contest 6 Test 1 results table
Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
Time for tables
Note: the time rating for the armor is time exposed to machine gun fire.
| Manufacturer | Race Time | Stoppages | Rally Fuel | Minor Issues | Major Issues | Armor | Weapon Angles | Weapon Range | Cost | Yearly Cost |
| Kettenkrad | 23 | 1x Engine, 1x Track | Yes | Eats oil, clutch safety | N/A | N/A | 90° easily, 150° possible | 100-300 | 58T20K | 6T |
| Tortoise | 31 | 1x Engine, 4x Track | Yes | Oil leak, traction control, poor handling | Suspension died, gets stuck often | N/A | 24° easily, 30° possible | 250 | 50T60K | 9T |
| MANN CO | 40 | 1x Clutch | Yes | Eats oil, clutch sticks, radiator leaks | Gets stuck easily, unreliable radiator | Engine compartment 3min, Crew compartment 6min + AT rifle | 45° easily, 120° possible | 300-800 | 90T | 12T |
| GBA-92 | 29 | 1x Tire | Yes | Clogged vents | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | 60T130K | 11T |
| CCC mod GBA-92 | 35 | 3x Crash, 2x Track, 1x Tire | Yes | N/A | Gets stuck easily, looses track a lot, broken axles, front end system damage | Engine 5min, Crew 3min | 360° | 380 | 85T100K | 10T |
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- Location
- Belgium
You forgot the Fenrus submission. 23', 2 stoppages: 1 carburetor and 1 track, armor 1'20" of which 1' target acquisition, weapon angles: 90° easily, 135° possible, 300 m weapon range, cost: 58T20K, yearly maintenance: 6T. Easy to maintain. Could use oil gauge, clutch safety override, track extenders and more cushioning for passenger seats..
KhazintheDark
May or may not be insane...
- Location
- Not where you are. Probably.
There were two steel on steel cavalry actions during WWI the first was a charge against infantry which resulted in a German retreat and the second a lancer-on-lancer charge that ended with the same result. BEF was damn good at their jobs.
The cavalry request allowed for a mix of up to 3 vehicles so the Fenrus bike being small and unarmoured doesn't rule it out at all. Give it the mods requested by testers and accept it.
The armoured carrier side of things is a harder decision. The modified GBA-92 seems like it can't quite cope with its own weight but I don't know if that can be fixed on revision. The driver position should be fixable.
The armoured carrier side of things is a harder decision. The modified GBA-92 seems like it can't quite cope with its own weight but I don't know if that can be fixed on revision. The driver position should be fixable.
Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
I also forgot the Tortoise and yearly maintenance. Well, I forgot the two vehicles, I make those tables from information I get through Discord and maintenance wasn't listed. But it's in now anyways.
- Location
- Belgium
You know, with 3 vehicles being acceptable and the cavalry considering Wanderer tankettes and this bit "... including one where the crew of the MANN CO submission stole an old sheet steel target and put the Fenrus submission in their cargo compartment so they could have tracks in their tracks..."
Why not go for Fenrus for rapid action and scouting, ManCo for transport and Wanderer tankettes for firepower?
Why not go for Fenrus for rapid action and scouting, ManCo for transport and Wanderer tankettes for firepower?
Cost maybe? Plus, Wanderer is already putting them out as fast as he can, there literally isn't a way to buy more except to wait for, propably, years until he finishes his backlog.
Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
It has the disadvantage of the highest TCO and issues with getting stuck as well as the radiator. But it's still the best option for the heavy counterpart to the Kettenkrad given that the Tortoise, while being cheap, is kinda shit and the CCC modification is also garbage. The GBA-92 has less issues but also no armor or weapons.
- Location
- Germiston, South Africa
Hmm, assuming nothing has changed, cavalry have three roles.
1. Reconnaissance. The Kettenkrad is a shoe-in for this. Lack of weapon range and armor is irrelevant to recon whose weapon is the Mk1 eyeball.
2. Breakthrough. Gonna have to be one of the armored designs for this, possibly with 1 in 4 unarmored as gun carriers. Otherwise small arms fire stops your attack cold.
None of the armored covered themselves in glory, but the MANN CO was the best of a bad lot.
3. Pursuit. Krad again but will need gun carrier or armored support
[x] Plan Mixed force
-[x] ADOPT the Fenrus. Give him another month for the changes suggested by the testers.
-[x] ADOPT the MANN CO. Conditional on observed weaknesses being addressed.
-[x] MODIFY the GBA-92. Replace passenger compartment with light cannon (29-40mm). Add light (small arms at 200m+) gunshield and driver armor.
The idea here is the Fenrus find the enemy, the Mann fix him with close MG fire, and gun carriers do the slaughter from 300m or so.
1. Reconnaissance. The Kettenkrad is a shoe-in for this. Lack of weapon range and armor is irrelevant to recon whose weapon is the Mk1 eyeball.
2. Breakthrough. Gonna have to be one of the armored designs for this, possibly with 1 in 4 unarmored as gun carriers. Otherwise small arms fire stops your attack cold.
None of the armored covered themselves in glory, but the MANN CO was the best of a bad lot.
3. Pursuit. Krad again but will need gun carrier or armored support
[x] Plan Mixed force
-[x] ADOPT the Fenrus. Give him another month for the changes suggested by the testers.
-[x] ADOPT the MANN CO. Conditional on observed weaknesses being addressed.
-[x] MODIFY the GBA-92. Replace passenger compartment with light cannon (29-40mm). Add light (small arms at 200m+) gunshield and driver armor.
The idea here is the Fenrus find the enemy, the Mann fix him with close MG fire, and gun carriers do the slaughter from 300m or so.
I see nothing going wrong with this addition.
CthuluWasRight
Fresh Meat for the SV Grinder
- Location
- Canada
"Observed weaknesses" strikes me as being too general. We should probably at least give them a basic idea of what we want out of them. The MANN CO design seemed kind of fucked to me, but if it can be fixed let's go for it. The GBA-92 rework should also specify stripping down/strengthening the interior so that we're not trashing all the fancy wood paneling and stuff.
- Location
- Germiston, South Africa
Okay, how about:-
[x] Plan Mixed force
-[x] ADOPT the Fenrus. Give him another month for the changes suggested by the testers.
-[x] ADOPT the MANN CO. Conditional on clutch replacement, radiator and oil use improvement. Add belted passenger seats in transport compartment.
-[x] MODIFY the GBA-92. Replace passenger compartment with light cannon (29-40mm). Add light (small arms at 200m+) gunshield and driver armor. Remove civilian interior for military.
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CthuluWasRight
Fresh Meat for the SV Grinder
- Location
- Canada
I like it. Maybe we should try and cushion the interior a little bit too or add seatbelts or something? A number of soldiers got injured riding around in that thing.