Starship Design Bureau
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
Linked contents
[X] Carve a divot into the aft hull behind the bridge and split a pair of Avidyne thrusters around the entrance. (No Impulse Prototypes/Aft Torpedoes)
Last edited:
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
- Location
- in the trash
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
Surely we can just automate more of the ship, right?
Surely we can just automate more of the ship, right?
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
With more room we can have extra cargo space like we wanted. So what if we don't have enough crew for the latest science labs, we don't really need them for the assignments this ship is expected to preform, namely shipping cargo across the Federation.
With more room we can have extra cargo space like we wanted. So what if we don't have enough crew for the latest science labs, we don't really need them for the assignments this ship is expected to preform, namely shipping cargo across the Federation.
[X] Carve a divot into the aft hull behind the bridge and split a pair of Avidyne thrusters around the entrance. (No Impulse Prototypes/Aft Torpedoes)
Prototyping new impulse engines on this design when we're already intending to prototype new phasers seems like a bit of a risk to me? There was no formal agreement, but I think that was the rough idea. Like, obviously if we could prototype new impulse thrusters and new phasers then that would be brilliant, it's just I think the concern is it might be a bit chancy if even one goes wrong? But maybe that's a bit pessimistic to be fair.
Optional internals last time also included things that had a significant impact on the final stats of the ship, as well as cargo areas - a key design requirement. I'm not sure how much crew it takes to run a cargo bay, but that might be a consideration here. It also may limit our ability to cover for weaknesses in the design or make the ship more versatile when we're in the final phases.
That being said, it's good to see that the vote moratorium has allowed for more discussion and made the vote less bandwagon-ey.
Optional internals last time also included things that had a significant impact on the final stats of the ship, as well as cargo areas - a key design requirement. I'm not sure how much crew it takes to run a cargo bay, but that might be a consideration here. It also may limit our ability to cover for weaknesses in the design or make the ship more versatile when we're in the final phases.
That being said, it's good to see that the vote moratorium has allowed for more discussion and made the vote less bandwagon-ey.
- Location
- his hidden lair
[X] Carve a divot into the aft hull behind the bridge and split a pair of Avidyne thrusters around the entrance. (No Impulse Prototypes/Aft Torpedoes)
We were explicitly told the need for automation adds bulk, and it's hard to think of additional modules that will be more internal volume hungry than cargo bays by their very nature.
We have an idea of how we can get a good tactical score inspite of poor torpedo launchers, we have no clue how to get large cargo bays in spite of less interior space. I'd much prefer the option where we know what we're sacrificing and have a tentative solution as opposed to the option where we're basically just shrugging and saying we'll figure it out later.
We were explicitly told the need for automation adds bulk, and it's hard to think of additional modules that will be more internal volume hungry than cargo bays by their very nature.
We have an idea of how we can get a good tactical score inspite of poor torpedo launchers, we have no clue how to get large cargo bays in spite of less interior space. I'd much prefer the option where we know what we're sacrificing and have a tentative solution as opposed to the option where we're basically just shrugging and saying we'll figure it out later.
That's a good point, I'd forgotten completely that it was mentioned that automation adds bulk. This might be something we can mitigate by going really barebones on other internals, but it's concerning. My larger concern honestly is that two new systems feels like playing with fire on a ship this small, and if we're not going for new impulse thrusters, there's less of a reason to go for the secondary hull in the first place?
Going for the secondary hull, going for new phasers but not new impulse thrusters, and accepting that we may have very little or no room to devote to anything but cargo space on the internals may be possible, though? It may break down to whether we want to trade off potentially have the internal space free to go up a rating on Comfort or Science to avoid a "-" on our Tactical rating from lacking an aft torpedo launcher, I expect.
Interesting dilemma!
Going for the secondary hull, going for new phasers but not new impulse thrusters, and accepting that we may have very little or no room to devote to anything but cargo space on the internals may be possible, though? It may break down to whether we want to trade off potentially have the internal space free to go up a rating on Comfort or Science to avoid a "-" on our Tactical rating from lacking an aft torpedo launcher, I expect.
Interesting dilemma!
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I want as many prototypes as we can cram into this thing. This is about the best, low stakes platform for experimentation as we can get. Even if we have terrible luck and have to make serious compromises, we can still end up with a competent enough little ship. And any prototype tech here will help improve future ships going forwards.
- Location
- Titan
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
Honestly, the Miranda has still got it for a while. If it works, excellent. If not, easy enough to revisit in a few years.
Honestly, the Miranda has still got it for a while. If it works, excellent. If not, easy enough to revisit in a few years.
So, I'm not sure this is the case? My understanding is that a smaller escort and patrol vessel has much tighter tolerances on mass and space, as well as needing to be cheap to build and run. Which means that a major unforeseen issue with systems might be more problematic than it would be for a larger vessel which can eat the mass or cost penalties more easily. This did seem to be indicated in the description we got for the frigate project when we were choosing our next design.
It's entirely possible I'm being pessimistic here, but the intro post and the update when we commissioned the Renaissance class seemed to emphasize how many of SDB's designs in the recent past ended up as one-offs due to technical flaws, costs or not meeting spec. So my reading of that is that this a risk we're intended to take fairly seriously? Of course, we could accept a higher risk of not producing a viable frigate in order to test as much tech as possible for our flagship project, letting Ferdinand walk so that the Ambassador can run.
That's a valid choice but if it's the one we're making, it's something to be aware of going in I think.
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
Even if we don't want experimental impulse engines, the line in the update was: "but given the complexity of the task doing so with unproven technology would be reckless to the extreme and you can kiss any engine improvements goodbye."
The last design's tactical score was contributed to by the maneuverability from its powerful impulse engines; mediocre maneuverability and no aft torpedo launchers sounds like a tactical deficit that could be hard to compensate for without costly upgrades, when this ship's only hard requirement is Tactical.
Even if we don't want experimental impulse engines, the line in the update was: "but given the complexity of the task doing so with unproven technology would be reckless to the extreme and you can kiss any engine improvements goodbye."
The last design's tactical score was contributed to by the maneuverability from its powerful impulse engines; mediocre maneuverability and no aft torpedo launchers sounds like a tactical deficit that could be hard to compensate for without costly upgrades, when this ship's only hard requirement is Tactical.
Last edited:
The decision to try and mete out improvements at a steady drip over time and have (probably) reasonably competent starship designs versus trying to wunderwaffe designs just to See If They Work is certainly something to consider.
This is a fair point.
Also, in fairness, I had been reading the mention of engine improvements as referring to introducing novel impulse thrusters, with the attendant risks of introducing a new technology. But "Impulse Thrusters" is not actually a discrete design stage, so maybe this and the aft torpedo launcher together are more intended to be justification of why the class would get a "-" to Tactics, and not that choosing the secondary hull or no cargo bay will open up a specific future vote option including novel impulse technology.
2337: Project Ferdinand (Spaceframe: Part Three)
Order -> Spaceframe -> Warp Core/Nacelles -> Tactical -> Internals -> Prototyping -> Certification -> Final Review
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
In the end the team decides that a shuttlebay is probably too vital to leave out of any design and begins to revise the planned secondary hull to fit. The new internal brace design prefers rounded shapes wherever possible, and you keep a concerned eye on the mass profile of the ship as it further expands. You comfort yourself with the thought that the difference between the Renaissance and what you have been commissioned to create is largely one of role, and if there is plenty of cargo space and you lean into automation savings you can still meet your crew targets. She probably won't be carrying science labs and advanced medical facilities, after all. The new isolinear computers will help too.
The shuttle bay is finalised with a double-wide rear door in the style of the Constitution-class, but with the addition of a flat landing guide area with an integrated tractor beam. It leaves just enough space for the planned deflector dish, at which point the warp core and antimatter pods should take up the rest of the secondary hull.
With the overall frame decided minus the nacelles, the nitty gritty work of deciding what internal components to integrate has entered full force. Which of course has a lot of interested parties keen to get a test run on their latest inventions. Case in point, Avidyne is pioneering the use of a single integrated impulse engine with increased power output, rather than the classical double design that's been used in most starships since, well, forever. It doesn't take up less space than what they are trying to displace, but it does have improved performance metrics.
The second major proposal is for an enhanced deflector dish. Being substantially larger than the standards currently in service will necessitate redesigning the front of the secondary hull, but the improved performance and efficiency promises to make a Warp 7 cruise viable without upgrading the warp core. Unless a miracle happens then a warp core compatible with the nacelles on the Renaissance won't be available by the time it comes to outfit the Ferdinand, so that might be your only shot at hitting a high cruise factor.
[ ]
-- [ ] Type-5 Avidyne Dual Impulse Thrusters
-- [ ] Type-7 Avidyne Impulse Engine (Prototype)
--- [ ] Recessed Navigational Deflector
--- [ ] Enhanced Deflector Dish (Prototype)
Project Ferdinand
The ship should have sufficient tactical armament for convoy duty and responding to distress, as well as sufficient cargo space to act as a bulk hauler. It must have a crew of 100 or less.
Minimum Tactical Rating: C
Two Hour Moratorium on Voting, Please.
Last edited:
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
[X] Build out a larger secondary hull to fit a shuttle bay and main deflector, displacing the impulse engines to the saucer section. (Less Crew Available for Optional Internals)
What's ultimately pushed me to this option is that to fulfil the ship's role, the only internals we really care about are probably going to be storage (which should have minimal crew requirements, only really applying during loading/unloading) and bulk transporters. We can probably afford to eat a loss of crew availability.
Edit: aaaand ninja'd by the update.
What's ultimately pushed me to this option is that to fulfil the ship's role, the only internals we really care about are probably going to be storage (which should have minimal crew requirements, only really applying during loading/unloading) and bulk transporters. We can probably afford to eat a loss of crew availability.
Edit: aaaand ninja'd by the update.