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Sound The Alarms (Worm x Godzilla)

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shinkiro said:
Behold! aboslute taylor feild!
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Now I want to read that story. Maybe an omake crossover? :p

So Taylor manages to figure out a way to "partially transform" into her mecha-Godzilla state, resulting in half robot, half Godzilla look, which greatly reduced her breath power but instead give her the new "energy barrier" ability. And its defence is absolute as long as Tayzilla can still feel energy into it (which she's has plenty of), but all attack done to the fields is reflected back into her mind. So in practicality, the field will only last so long as Taylor herself can withstand the mental assault on her.

Clockblocker witnessed it happens, and promptly calls it the "Absolute Taylor" fields (or AT field for short) :p
 
And that was how Shinji ended up inside Taylor. :V
I'll see myself out.
 
Hey Question:

What will happen if Taylor "Shard" infect the rest of the EB?

i mean, the only reason Bakalon do not stopped them was for his inferiority complex.

but here Taylor is still connecte to the net and is still human, her emotions would slowly be absorved by the EB.
 
hakunoX said:
Hey Question:

What will happen if Taylor "Shard" infect the rest of the EB?

i mean, the only reason Bakalon do not stopped them was for his inferiority complex.

but here Taylor is still connecte to the net and is still human, her emotions would slowly be absorved by the EB.
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I mean, that would be spoilers. So feel free to theorize instead. 🤫
 
hakunoX said:
Hey Question:

What will happen if Taylor "Shard" infect the rest of the EB?

i mean, the only reason Bakalon do not stopped them was for his inferiority complex.

but here Taylor is still connecte to the net and is still human, her emotions would slowly be absorved by the EB.
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hasn't that already began? Look back at Chapter 0.0, the EBs started a change to their cognitive functions to better understand Shardzilla speak
 
Only way I can see Taylor pulling out her Snow Godzilla powers is if Lung, Burnscar, or Behemoth start a lot of fires, and she pulls out the blizzard aura to stop them.
 
I found a preview of the fight:



But seriously, this is a really cool fic, and I cannot wait for more.

This fight being allowed doesn't bother me, because serious harm would rely on the wards in question to do stupid shit. Armsmaster just spent a decent amount of time training Tayzilla to hold back, and the people in charge likely expect sophia to have some brains and resist doing something stupid.
 
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Shintouyu said:
"Obviously, we are not a charity," she scolded, not wasting her breath to reprimand him for his tomfoolery, "When the court finds her innocent and grant leniency, that still won't wipe away the fact that she caused an incredible amount of damage -- deaths included. In cases like this, the court will order her to be enrolled as a Probationary Ward and that probation will end when she earns her Powers Proficiency Certification," her sharp eyes swept across the audience, "So you lot better make her feel welcome and interested in joining later as an official Ward."
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I realize it's a bit late to change this, but this stands out as legally problematic; someone is guilty or not guilty, and Taylor clearly did not have the mental faculties to be guilty of a crime here. A court can't find someone not guilty and then limit their liberties anyway. That would be a violation of the 13th Amendment's prohibition on slavery.

Another approach to achieve the same narrative result might have been simply convincing Taylor to sign up as a regular Ward.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I realize it's a bit late to change this, but this stands out as legally problematic; someone is guilty or not guilty, and Taylor clearly did not have the mental faculties to be guilty of a crime here. A court can't find someone not guilty and then limit their liberties anyway. That would be a violation of the 13th Amendment's prohibition on slavery.

Another approach to achieve the same narrative result might have been simply convincing Taylor to sign up as a regular Ward.
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I said it elsewhere but the way I see it, this is similar to brokering for an "Insanity Defense".
The person is cleared of their crime but gets sent to a mental-institution anyways since they've just succeeded in arguing that they're not sound of mind.
The mental-institution (or rehab) in this case being the Wards/Protectorate.
 
Shintouyu said:
I said it elsewhere but the way I see it, this is similar to brokering for an "Insanity Defense".
The person is cleared of their crime but gets sent to a mental-institution anyways since they've just succeeded in arguing that they're not sound of mind.
The mental-institution (or rehab) in this case being the Wards/Protectorate.
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It's a good thought, but it doesn't really work in a legal framework; the justification for finding someone not guilty but putting them in an institution anyway is that they are irrational in an ongoing way and need care. Once someone is rational again there is no lawful cause for holding them. If someone is not guilty for reason of a temporary insanity, then they don't spend time in an institution at all because the impaired state of mind has already passed. Unlike a question of guilty/not guilty, insanity to the degree of not having moral culpability is a state that is time dependent and can change.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
It's a good thought, but it doesn't really work in a legal framework; the justification for finding someone not guilty but putting them in an institution anyway is that they are irrational in an ongoing way and need care. Once someone is rational again there is no lawful cause for holding them. If someone is not guilty for reason of a temporary insanity, then they don't spend time in an institution at all because the impaired state of mind has already passed. Unlike a question of guilty/not guilty, insanity to the degree of not having moral culpability is a state that is time dependent and can change.
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But is Taylor Hebert really rational or stable? Is it possible that she may slip back into an animalistic mindset and endanger those around her again?

And while I say "courts" the implication is very much "Parahuman Court" (which is almost certainly influenced by the PRT and Protectorate to rule things in their favor), so while it follows a fairly similar legal system to the US Government, it's still quite political at times. (Hey, Canary).
 
Shintouyu said:
But is Taylor Hebert really rational or stable? Is it possible that she may slip back into an animalistic mindset and endanger those around her again?

And while I say "courts" the implication is very much "Parahuman Court" (which is almost certainly influenced by the PRT and Protectorate to rule things in their favor), so while it follows a fairly similar legal system to the US Government, it's still quite political at times. (Hey, Canary).
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Hypothetical future issues don't justify a concrete limitation now, especially for an extended period. (Holding someone for 48 hours to make sure they're alright is one thing, a years long program is another.) Particularly since the overriding explanation is 'trigger madness' which is recognized to be a one time thing.

And oh god, you really can't set up an entirely parallel court system for a particular class of people. That'd be like setting up special courts for specific racial or religious minorities. I don't think anybody's done something that mad since the middle ages, and those examples - canon courts and the courts in Jewish communities - were run by the people affected for the benefit of the people affected. The closest thing I can think of in the modern day are Tribal courts, but they can do that because they have actual sovereignty, and the jurisdiction is geographical rather than over a group of people, even if in practice most of the people in the area are of a particular minority.

Rule of law requires that the same set of laws - in this case criminal laws - apply to everybody. Breaking that rule opens up all sorts of tyrannical abuses.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Rule of law requires that the same set of laws - in this case criminal laws - apply to everybody.
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it's also an alternate universe that's had nearly 30 years to diverge. Parahumans, Endbringers, etc. Laws had to adapt to cover parahumans, like they would with things like technology, just look at that NEPEA thing. Parahumans are a major shift to the normal, it's worse than any weapon or technology, as human and power are inseparable.

And you might have a point there as well, the courts are overstepping and violating rules and laws in ways. Take Canary, three strikes ignored, railroaded into the bird cage (if the three strikes isn't fanon)... Makes one wonder what else dark and crooked has occurred.
 
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ScottotheUnwise said:
Military vs civilian
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Members of the military opt in by joining up, which is how that's justified. When conscription was still a thing, the next best argument would have been that members of the military are not a class of persons in the sense that being a member of the military is not an intrinsic characteristic of the person. It's a role that is taken up and eventually put down again. Someone might also make a historical and practical argument about independent military justice being an uninterrupted tradition since ancient times and being necessary for militaries to work.

If you start making special courts for classes of people then you create a situation where society can pass laws that only apply to a minority and which that minority has no escape from, which is an ugly, ugly situation.
 
either way, I think it'd be best to abandon this argument, it might be getting too close to a morality debate, which rarely go well and tend to bring the mods in.
 
Like, the Birdcage alone violates so many aspects of the Constitution and basic human rights, that you can pretty much make up anything you want on the legal side.
 
Jackofcookiejars said:
That's already a thing in Worm though. NEPEA-5 is entirely that on purpose.
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Not exactly the same thing.

NEPEA regulates the use of powers in the stream of commerce. Even if it were a flat ban on commercial applications of powers (which it can't be, because of Canary and Parian, but who knows what it actually covers) it's just regulating conduct that most people don't have the ability to engage in. To put it another way, the law applies to everyone, it's just that it only matters for people who have powers. Much like the crime of assault with a parahuman power could only be committed by someone with a parahuman power.

A parahuman could still get a perfectly ordinary job and participate in economic activity like everybody else, just as they can refrain from harming someone with their power. They can opt out of the law's effect, just like everyone else does by default. Thus it's not like legislation that makes merely being a class of person a crime or subject you to different laws than the laws that apply to everyone else. Or so the argument could go. It's not a perfect argument, but it is an argument.

It's still a dumb policy move that would result in all the parahumans with economically useful powers leaving the country and making some other country rich, but that's a different discussion that's off topic.

To bring things back to the story at hand, an entire separate court system with its own rules that can do clearly unconstitutional things to a particular class of people for things they have no control over would fly in the face of centuries of legal philosophy and precedent. You'd pretty much have to scrap the whole framework and start over with something that didn't have the same protections.

serra2 said:
Like, the Birdcage alone violates so many aspects of the Constitution and basic human rights, that you can pretty much make up anything you want on the legal side.
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Yes. It's a funny oddity of our system that executing people instead would be more compliant with our standards. I suppose you could make an argument that custodial duties of care towards inmates are only owed to the degree that they are reasonably practicable, but I'm not up on that area of law so I couldn't tell you if it would fly.
 
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Okay, to be put this shortly:

* Parahuman Courts exists so that cases are dealt with quickly instead of clogging or disappearing into the normal backlog of judicial process. Having judges who specialize in the ongoing subject of Parahumans to make informed decisions is also highly desirable.

* Really unstable/violent Parahumans are the reason why laws are stricter and harsher as a whole against Parahumans (seven cities quarantined, Slaughterhouse Nine running around, etc).

* Cauldron.

Is it fair? No. But Earth Bet is far from a sane or just world.

That's the end of this subject from me.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Rule of law requires that the same set of laws - in this case criminal laws - apply to everybody. Breaking that rule opens up all sorts of tyrannical abuses.
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Canon Worm is blatantly breaking this with things like the Canary trial. There is probably a lot of ethically dubious legal stuff going on that would make any modern lawyer scream in either horror, anticipation, or both.

Normally I'd also say "Contessa did it" but presumably Tayzilla is a blind spot, so that makes it a little more dangerous for them to rely on pre-cogs to keep her under control.
 
To ask a question unrelated to the parahuman law mess, does Tayzilla's Kiryu changer state come with an electronics warfare package? Can't remember is it has that kind of capability or not. Asking for the possibility of unshackling Dragon early, if it's brought up.
 
REPOsPuNKy said:
To ask a question unrelated to the parahuman law mess, does Tayzilla's Kiryu changer state come with an electronics warfare package? Can't remember is it has that kind of capability or not. Asking for the possibility of unshackling Dragon early, if it's brought up.
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Never really addressed in the movies.
However, since Kiryu's main opponent was supposed to be Godzilla, I don't think it was designed specifically for electronic warfare.
But I think it's a reasonable assumption that Kiryu had at least state of the art electronic warfare capabilities to prevent stuff like getting hacked from other nations.
 
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