Shipping It Stargate Style [Worm/Stargate]

No. I'm talking about you as narrator. Who, in my opinion, failed to shown Taylor's thoughts in believable way here.


By that logic Behemoth (with his known capabilities, at least), cannot threaten her either.
But actually, I answered to author's statement:

And called that statement incorrect, with a quote from the chapter.
How dangerous Siberian for Taylor really is wasn't a point (at least for me).

... That's not what I meant, and I suspect you know that. Because I'm not an omniscient narrator in this story, and I'm relaying what she experiences, NOT interjecting as the author.

What exactly about Taylor's thought process doesn't seem right? Taylor as a character is arrogant, sure of her own conclusions, and doesn't consider half of what she should. Add in Odyssey's complete confidence in herself with only a little thoughtfulness, plus a bit of the shipgirl constant full steam ahead, and you get this Taylor. Are you expecting her to be different?
 
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Hm, I thought that ships were always in orbit when beaming to and from, but after poking around a bit you're right; it definitely looks like beaming tech can go much further than near-orbit.

Apparently Ha'taks can also be beamed away, as seen in the very first appearance of an Asgard Mothership:



So yeah, while Taylor can't beam herself from NY to LA, she can probably beam anything else there.


This vid doesn't look like beaming to me. It doesn't match the teleporting in that episode or later ones; entirely different look to the later beaming and all the teleporting within the episode is a deferent sound and colour. To me this looks like the same tech as a weapon, a disintegrator, kind of, especially with the way it seems to disassemble the ships on the ground.

My point is that I don't think this can be used to say Asgard beaming tech could move the Odyssey.
 
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Cmon guys, do you really need to run this argument around and around, yes you both have valid points. No it doesn't matter, so let's just take a step back and let poor TC get on with his life/writing, instead of arguing about minor issues that probably won't have an effect for ages
 
Cmon guys, do you really need to run this argument around and around
I agree. Because
What exactly about Taylor's thought process doesn't seem right?
I'm out of ways to explain it that I didn't used already, on the last two pages (20 and 21) of comments. If there's no good enough explanation, I don't know how to make a better one.

... That's not what I meant, and I suspect you know that. Because I'm not an omniscient narrator in this story, and I'm relaying what she experiences, NOT interjecting as the author.
... That's not what I meant, and I suspect you know that. Because I'm talking about how you "relayed" what she experiences/thinks, not about making an injections of "author's words".
 
Rule 3: Be Civil
I admit, I've mostly been following the discussion while silently agreeing or disagreeing with various points of both sides.
But the bolded statement below actually made me chime in.
What exactly about Taylor's thought process doesn't seem right? Taylor as a character is arrogant, sure of her own conclusions, and doesn't consider half of what she should. Add in Odyssey's complete confidence in herself with only a little thoughtfulness, plus a bit of the shipgirl constant full steam ahead, and you get this Taylor. Are you expecting her to be different?
ARE YOU COMPLETELY NUTS?! SMOKING CRACK? HIGH ON SOMETHING ELSE IF NOT?

At this point in the timeline, she is the opposite of everything in the bolded statement. Her mother dying, father absent, her best friend turning on her, not to mention the bullying campaign and everything around it...

Odyssey and SMSGBS will help, but she is a long way from arrogant at this point. Ans that means that her personality up to this point in-story (and beyond) practically needs a rewrite.
 
I admit, I've mostly been following the discussion while silently agreeing or disagreeing with various points of both sides.
But the bolded statement below actually made me chime in.

ARE YOU COMPLETELY NUTS?! SMOKING CRACK? HIGH ON SOMETHING ELSE IF NOT?

At this point in the timeline, she is the opposite of everything in the bolded statement. Her mother dying, father absent, her best friend turning on her, not to mention the bullying campaign and everything around it...

Odyssey and SMSGBS will help, but she is a long way from arrogant at this point. Ans that means that her personality up to this point in-story (and beyond) practically needs a rewrite.
So a somewhat hard scifi ship and crew was mystically sent through other universes, picked up magical powers, and turned Taylor into a ship girl, and you're okay with it.

But Taylor having a divergent personality requires a complete rewrite?

Note, as well, we're talking about Taylor now, not Taylor pre-ship.
 
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I admit, I've mostly been following the discussion while silently agreeing or disagreeing with various points of both sides.
But the bolded statement below actually made me chime in.

ARE YOU COMPLETELY NUTS?! SMOKING CRACK? HIGH ON SOMETHING ELSE IF NOT?

At this point in the timeline, she is the opposite of everything in the bolded statement. Her mother dying, father absent, her best friend turning on her, not to mention the bullying campaign and everything around it...

Odyssey and SMSGBS will help, but she is a long way from arrogant at this point. Ans that means that her personality up to this point in-story (and beyond) practically needs a rewrite.

She's not arrogant in ego, she's arrogant in her decisions. Yes, even right after the locker. Nobody gets to make a decision about her but her, and she doesn't consider half as much as she should in those decisions. That's a core trait of her, and is present at all times, despite her depression and being beaten down.

Of course in canon she tends to have to let this happen anyways due to low levels of power but she hates it.
 
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Apologies if any of this comes off as rude. I may have let myself get a bit too sarcastic for some lines.
I'm out of ways to explain it that I didn't used already, on the last two pages (20 and 21) of comments. If there's no good enough explanation, I don't know how to make a better one.
You seem to be confused about what "unreliable narrator" means. You're saying that TCGM should have done a better job explaining how Taylor is tougher than Alexandria.
No. I'm talking about you as narrator. Who, in my opinion, failed to shown Taylor's thoughts in believable way here.
The issue is that TCGM is not the narrator; Taylor is. TCGM may be the *author*, but the story is not written from TCGM's perspective. Much like in Worm itself, what we see of the world is colored by Taylor's perspective. That is what 'unreliable narrator' means. The narrator (again, different from author) is not omnicient, and as such not everything in-story is going to be perfectly accurate, because the narrator might not know better. That's what TCGM meant by "taylor can't read the wiki". That Taylor, the person whose perspective we are reading, does not have an omniscient perspective. She has to work with what she knows, not what TCGM knows. Or do you think that everyone in-story should magically be able to know everything about people... in which case, why has nobody arrested Thomas Calvert for being Coil?
ARE YOU COMPLETELY NUTS?! SMOKING CRACK? HIGH ON SOMETHING ELSE IF NOT?
... No, really? Taylor Hebert, the girl who killed Alexandria, warlord of Brockton Bay, she who slew Scion, the Queen of Escalation? Being "arrogant, sure of her own conclusions, and doesn't consider half of what she should."? (this is ripped straight from the quote that you were questioning)
You seem to forget that, in canon, we get shown that one of Taylor's core traits is her sheer determination. The first time she meets Armsmaster, she chooses to infiltrate the Undersiders, despite Armsy, one of her childhood heroes, telling her it's a bad idea. That's at the beginning of the story, where she'd had even more time under the Trio than here.

So personally? I'd say her being cockily sure of herself after gaining the powers of a small starship are pretty reasonable. She is literally more of a heavyweight than literally anything on the planet with exception of the Endbringers and Scion. I'd say that considering that a starship compressed into human size could rival Alexandria for durability might not be that unreasonable... Especially when said ship's computer system is now sharing her mind, thus tinting her view of things.

Also, that was a bit rude, which was completely unnecessary
 
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You seem to be confused about what "unreliable narrator" means.
For me, Taylor is a character, and TCGM is a narrator, who telling us a story from Taylor's point of view.
Maybe those, who lives in the English speaking community, don't use word "narrator" in that sense. English isn't my native language, so sometimes I use unsuitable synonyms. Sorry for that.

You're saying that TCGM should have done a better job explaining how Taylor is tougher than Alexandria.
I'm said that TCGM should've done better job showing how Taylor came to that conclusion.

That Taylor, the person whose perspective we are reading, does not have an omniscient perspective. She has to work with what she knows
Exactly. And she, for her enture life, knew "Alexandria is invilnerable". And then just "I'm tougher. Ok, neat."
Why she decided that? What led her to conclusion that something she believed to be an axiom for her entire life, is false?
 
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Apologies if any of this comes off as rude. I may have let myself get a bit too sarcastic for some lines.

You seem to be confused about what "unreliable narrator" means. You're saying that TCGM should have done a better job explaining how Taylor is tougher than Alexandria.

The issue is that TCGM is not the narrator; Taylor is. TCGM may be the *author*, but the story is not written from TCGM's perspective. Much like in Worm itself, what we see of the world is colored by Taylor's perspective. That is what 'unreliable narrator' means. The narrator (again, different from author) is not omnicient, and as such not everything in-story is going to be perfectly accurate, because the narrator might not know better. That's what TCGM meant by "taylor can't read the wiki". That Taylor, the person whose perspective we are reading, does not have an omniscient perspective. She has to work with what she knows, not what TCGM knows. Or do you think that everyone in-story should magically be able to know everything about people... in which case, why has nobody arrested Thomas Calvert for being Coil?

... No, really? Taylor Hebert, the girl who killed Alexandria, warlord of Brockton Bay, she who slew Scion, the Queen of Escalation? Being "arrogant, sure of her own conclusions, and doesn't consider half of what she should."? (this is ripped straight from the quote that you were questioning)
You seem to forget that, in canon, we get shown that one of Taylor's core traits is her sheer determination. The first time she meets Armsmaster, she chooses to infiltrate the Undersiders, despite Armsy, one of her childhood heroes, telling her it's a bad idea. That's at the beginning of the story, where she'd had even more time under the Trio than here.

So personally? I'd say her being cockily sure of herself after gaining the powers of a small starship are pretty reasonable. She is literally more of a heavyweight than literally anything on the planet with exception of the Endbringers and Scion. I'd say that considering that a starship compressed into human size could rival Alexandria for durability might not be that unreasonable... Especially when said ship's computer system is now sharing her mind, thus tinting her view of things.

Also, that was a bit rude, which was completely unnecessary

Thank you, you've written out an excellent summary of what I was trying to explain.

For me, Taylor is a character, and TCGM is a narrator, who telling us a story from Taylor's point of view.
Maybe those, who lives in the English speaking community, don't use word "narrator" in that sense. English isn't my native language, so sometimes I use unsuitable synonyms. Sorry for that.


I'm said that TCGM should've done better job showing how Taylor came to that conclusion.


Exactly. And she, for her enture life, knew "Alexandria is invilnerable". And then just "I'm tougher. Ok, neat."
Why she decided that? What led her to conclusion that something she believed to be an axiom for her entire life, is false?

Oh, that's what you meant this whole time?

Yeah, that doesn't exist.

The lack of logical connection at the very end of the conclusion process is on purpose. Taylor jumps to conclusions so much she's an Olympic Champion. I can't show you that finalizing thought process because Taylor never went through it.
 
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Oh, that's what you meant this whole time?
I almost literally quoted some of my comments. That's funny how people can get something when you telling that to other people, but not to them. Human psychology is weird, but fascinating thing.

The lack of logical connection at the very end of the conclusion process is on purpose. Taylor jumps to conclusions so much she's an Olympic Champion. I can't show you that finalizing thought process because Taylor never went through it.
Thanks for explaining it. I still think that's unrealistic, but that's my opinion, and if that was a deliberate decision on your end, if you did that on purpose - that's your prerogative.
Anyway, I wish you to have fun writing that fic. We, apparently, have really different images of Taylor as a character, and I don't think I can enjoy the story with Taylor as you see her. Maybe if that was OC, SI, or even different canon character, like Lisa, but not Taylor.
Good bye.
 
That's just it though. Alexandria isn't any tougher than a normal human. She's just hard enough that she ignores everything but exotic effects. Damage that would kill Alexandria would merely be cosmetic for Taylor, barely penetrating halfway through her hull plating.

This. Assuming that the body of the ship is in fact actual folded space or something, and that damage to Taylor in reality = damage to the ship, take one of Bakuda's bombs for example. A timestop or a glass-transmutation bomb would almost certainly work on Alexandria.

Said bombs will likely also work on Taylor, but its entirely possible that those effects must propagate through her ship-space in order to properly damage her. In which case, sure she might lose a chunk of an arm or something, or maybe just a bunch of skin (and that's assuming that ship damage translates to human damage in some way) but it wouldn't kill her outright like it would Alexandria.

Similarly, I suspect that at this point Taylor doesn't need to breathe, and we all know how that went for ol' Alex.
 
Said bombs will likely also work on Taylor, but its entirely possible that those effects must propagate through her ship-space in order to properly damage her. In which case, sure she might lose a chunk of an arm or something, or maybe just a bunch of skin (and that's assuming that ship damage translates to human damage in some way) but it wouldn't kill her outright like it would Alexandria.
And that's assuming that it actually penetrates her shields.
 
And I will laugh when the first time someone throws something dangerous at her the rail gun point defense activates and shoots it out of the air with GREAT PREJUDUCE.
I would find it oddly appropriate (despite technically being from different branches of the U.S. Armed Forces) if at some point Cam quoted Will Smith's character from the first Independence Day movie:

"Oh no, you did NOT shoot that green shit at me us!!"

Whether fairy!Cam is in a tiny F-302 or not... eh, who could say? Pinging @TCGM
 
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... No, really? Taylor Hebert, the girl who killed Alexandria, warlord of Brockton Bay, she who slew Scion, the Queen of Escalation? Being "arrogant, sure of her own conclusions, and doesn't consider half of what she should."? (this is ripped straight from the quote that you were questioning)
You seem to forget that, in canon, we get shown that one of Taylor's core traits is her sheer determination. The first time she meets Armsmaster, she chooses to infiltrate the Undersiders, despite Armsy, one of her childhood heroes, telling her it's a bad idea. That's at the beginning of the story, where she'd had even more time under the Trio than here.
...really? I'm arguing about how she is now, and you go "but in X amount of time she does Y". I don't care how she is or feel at some undefined point in the future, I care about how she is now.

And right now, after her mother dying, the bullying campaign and having no one to rely on, she is downtrodden to put it mildly. You say one of her core traits is sheer determination? It probably all she's got left at this point, and all that's keeping her going.
In canon, gaining any power would give anyone a confidence boost. Gaining pretty much the ultimate surveillance power would make anyone arrogant at some point, especially with no one around to give you a reality check. Defeating Lung would only enhance it.

Here? Odyssey and SMSGBS will give her a confidence boost, but only to a point: the Odyssey is not invulnerable; she has been captured before, and that will be in her memories. That will also limit any arrogance, especially with SG1 around to deflate her head if needed.
As for Taylor being an unreliable narrator, SG1 has their own opinions, and access to the same data as Taylor. They can put the record straight, correct her conclusions or offer different viewpoints.
 
I almost literally quoted some of my comments. That's funny how people can get something when you telling that to other people, but not to them. Human psychology is weird, but fascinating thing.


Thanks for explaining it. I still think that's unrealistic, but that's my opinion, and if that was a deliberate decision on your end, if you did that on purpose - that's your prerogative.
Anyway, I wish you to have fun writing that fic. We, apparently, have really different images of Taylor as a character, and I don't think I can enjoy the story with Taylor as you see her. Maybe if that was OC, SI, or even different canon character, like Lisa, but not Taylor.
Good bye.


Good riddance.

Can we please not get bogged down by people going on page long rants that basically amount to "I don't like it'?

As far as I'm concerned this is a well written story that is pretty much exactly what I was looking for, and I'm really looking forward to how people deal with the might of the Tau'ri showing up to knock some heads together.
 
You know, the story is called Shipping It Stargate Style so who might OdyTay get shipped with? I'm hoping for Amy or Flechette, though Parian could be amusing and cute.
 
You know, the story is called Shipping It Stargate Style so who might OdyTay get shipped with? I'm hoping for Amy or Flechette, though Parian could be amusing and cute.

I think you misunderstand something: Shipgirl Taylor is a ship that ships ships. she needs more crew. LOTS MORE CREW. and her current crew need friends to help them deal with their CPTSD of being trapped on the Odyssey for umpteen years with just each other for company.

Tay isn't going to get involved in the relationships, she IS the relationship, others have ships with / because of / inside -her-. ^^
 
Bakuda look up with eyes wide in terror. Her breath sounded loud in her half deaf ears.

She just...

She just...

"Oh crap." The bitch had the indecency to act apologetic. "i am.. I didn't mean to do that. Listen, I need you to lie very still."

No shit.

Her power helpfully told her why the grenade she threw simply vanished with a bang two inches after it left her fingers.

And if her power didn't the giant hole in the FUCKING TRAIN BEHIND HER would have.

" just... Just sit still ok. You are setting off ALL the warnings on my sensors and the railguns are sorta on a hair trigger. Just don't... Just don't do anything that could startle me OK?"
 
Shields or jammers. Wraith for example, never came up with shield technology, but still found a way to block Asgard transporters after just few nukes.
The Wraith didn't bother with shields for the same reason modern warships don't bother with the kind of armor plating that WWII battleships and cruisers had.
The same reason that until recently soldiers stopped using armor (though it has now started making a comeback).
The shields didn't work on the ancient's drones, so it was a waste of power.
Although I'm surprised the ancients didn't have other weapons. IIRC one of the main problems the Daedalus and Prometheus class had was that they simply couldn't do enough damage to the huge hive ships, which could self-repair. It was kind of like in WWII an aircraft strafing a tanker or cargo ship with the machine guns, or a PT boat trying to do the same when their torpedoes were expended (although they did have some success using a 37mm gun against barges).
 
Somehow, I think Taylor will be developing a generic "Hey Hey" crew that will be taking orders from SG-1. Will most likely look like freaky window dummies at first, before Odyssey remembers personalities or genders.

Hell, General Landry is a good candidate to show up again, since he died onboard like regular fairies do. I mean, the whole thing with ShipGirls is that they come back from the dead, right?

" just... Just sit still ok. You are setting off ALL the warnings on my sensors and the railguns are sorta on a hair trigger. Just don't... Just don't do anything that could startle me OK?"
Bakuda: "Startle you? Bitch, fuck off with that shit and stay the hell away from me!"
 
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