Shards of a Broken Sun [Deprecated; see link in final post for remake]

Doesn't his power come from demon summoning? I don't think he gets super-human dice pools for anything.
His main source of power is the Dragon Stream, which he can bend to his purpose by force of will.

He can summon Satan, which was once Yahweh's greatest weapon. Only a fraction of its power, but even a fraction is impressive.

He almost certainly counts as god-blooded, in Exalted terms. And yes, he is a terrifyingly powerful sorcerer. Megaten has people who'd easily beat him, but... he's a suitable opponent for Amu as she is now, you understand?

Moreover, at present he'll generally be able to convince Amu that he's right to take the actions he does; her low conviction doesn't help here. It'll take an additional jolt, some evidence that he's wrong, to make her go against him.
 
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He can still buy off with Willpower if we try to hammer him down by charm backed force


In case it isn't obvious, where things went wrong with Hotsuin this time is that all your proposals would have undermined his position in one way or another. His counters amount to "do it anyway, but now they're my ideas"; he's far more lenient to the DeSu2 protagonist, who doesn't try that sort of thing.

On the bright side, he's absolutely confident you haven't been doing it deliberately. Getting you to run off for a bit, now, is.. Well, nothing he said is false, but <redacted>.
Yeah we really can't afford to waste effort on infighting, he wants credit, fine.

Good thing Amu doesn't care much on that end, are people better off? Yes? Proceed. We can't begin to cover everything, so if he wants to do the lifting we go lift something else. This is the end of the world, theres always something that needs doing.


All the while we just gradually win him over on charm. Can't change his motivation without destroying him, but intimacies inform motivation.
 
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Yeah we really can't afford to waste effort on infighting, he wants credit, fine.
He don't want credit. He is fucking Taylor Hebert - Japanese Magical version with all the trust issues of thereof (if of different origin, less "everybody is traitor" and more "everybody is incompetent idiot")... and he is completely tired of all this shit so he's doing things his way.

And for too long he had exactly two people "on the level" to bounce of - Alcor (who is damned Alcor) and Fumi (in all her Mad Scientist (TM) glory)). And I don't know which one of the two made worse effect on his personality.

PS. On the flipside he is that rare case that if he will understand what Solar Exalt is and what Solar Exalt can do is likely enough to just fold and become subordinate without any major issues and by his own will. His own life phylosophy demands that. But it requires to prove to him that it's like that by deeds.

PPS. For example he is against giving program to everybody because he thinks that government would go "lol, we have forces now, who need to listen to this inexperienced youngster any more!" and, well, he is most likely right about that. And amount of shit that would happen if things would go like that... is quite big.
 
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PPPS. About proving Solar Superiority... it should take in account "still human" part. Yamato would can* accept superiority of somebody who was given tool and used that tool right. Superiority of somebody who is more powerful "just because" not so much. He is not about power (doesn't matter in what way), but about ability to use said power right. Or speaking Exalted while he is one to accept Solar as rightful ruler... he is also first to lead Usurpation on Solar's ass.

*Well, for full acceptance it should be somebody who "got there" just by his own powers - unlike btw Yamato himself.
 
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He can still buy off with Willpower if we try to hammer him down by charm backed force
From a rules perspective, that's exactly what I attempted to depict there. ("Shaken" doesn't mean "cowed".)

Moreover, at present he'll generally be able to convince Amu that he's right to take the actions he does; her low conviction doesn't help here.
Indeed. (That low Conviction is only one of many problems with that snippet.)

It'll take an additional jolt, some evidence that he's wrong, to make her go against him.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure we're going to get it. I only hope it's soon enough to make a difference.

[X] If you're going to Narukoten shrine, bring a laptop. You can help a bit with the Seal while you're on the road.

Or poke at the Nicaea app, I suppose. But that can wait until we can discuss 'clocking down reality' with Dia.
 
I get that, but I would think that someone at Hotsuin's level of power would be difficult to classify as just a heroic mortal.

Moreover, the fact is that even if you drive him away from the scene, he wouldn't just take that lying down. Anima or not, JPS is still his. And he would have contingencies in place. Effective in stopping Amu or not, it would still ruin things for everyone simply because the organization is loyal to Hotsuin personally. Not Amu.
Well, i was only saying what was causing Hotsuin fear, not that it was a good idea.

His main source of power is the Dragon Stream, which he can bend to his purpose by force of will.
Uh, so he is powered by the same thing that we helped not fall in unreality, and which consider us an user? Well, should he ever become a problem we know what to do: become the Super-User/Administrator and boot him out. Not that it is a thing that we should do obligatorily.
 
Well, i was only saying what was causing Hotsuin fear, not that it was a good idea.


Uh, so he is powered by the same thing that we helped not fall in unreality, and which consider us an user? Well, should he ever become a problem we know what to do: become the Super-User/Administrator and boot him out. Not that it is a thing that we should do obligatorily.
Amu does it through charms and hackery

Hotsuin does it by pure force of glaring at it hard enough that it gets in line. It'd be a bit more complicated than that. Probably some kind of willpower rejecting charm keyed towards Hotsuin or something
 
Ok, so Hotsuin is pretty powerful... but I guess we could take a laptop along together with the party to the shrine. Fumi probably wouldn't mind some occasional patch suggestions atleast.

And I suppose one will have to see how to tip-toe around Hotsuin's sensitive issues for now. Some things might be solvable by how one words it, others by competency and it being really important and time critical... and not having anything better to do.
 
Amu does it through charms and hackery

Hotsuin does it by pure force of glaring at it hard enough that it gets in line. It'd be a bit more complicated than that. Probably some kind of willpower rejecting charm keyed towards Hotsuin or something
Resisting Mental Influence requires willpower, which means that talking to Hotsuin untill his ears fall off is a viable way to make him lose access to the Dragon Stream.

Changing topic, my mind seem to be insisting about making a little overwiev about the pro and the cons of Amu having a Nocturnal Exaltation instead of the Solar one: it is anybody insterested, or i should go rant about the 3rd edition in another topic, like i planned to?
 
Resisting Mental Influence requires willpower, which means that talking to Hotsuin untill his ears fall off is a viable way to make him lose access to the Dragon Stream.
That is to say, convincing him. Without UMI involved, "social combat" is just an abstraction for who is most convincing-cross-most convicted, and I'll give you a tip, it's not Amu.
Changing topic, my mind seem to be insisting about making a little overwiev about the pro and the cons of Amu having a Nocturnal Exaltation instead of the Solar one: it is anybody insterested, or i should go rant about the 3rd edition in another topic, like i planned to?
Wouldn't that just be "Amu goes splat, the end"?

It's not strictly on-topic, but I won't object.

---
<Amu> Ami can do what, now?
<Utau> And she's using it to tickle people! Make her stop!
 
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That is to say, convincing him. Without UMI involved, "social combat" is just an abstraction for who is most convincing-cross-most convicted, and I'll give you a tip, it's not Amu.
Four hours for a favored Charm right? So... 12 hours = Four dots, a presence excellency, and an Irresistible Salesmen later.

And that's for getting five dots on Amu and not counting that Chara training might speed the dot training up.
 
It's subtracted from their Mental Defence Value, not their dice pool, so one dot of Appearance would cost 16 XP for the equivalent of one auto-success. Because we can easily beat mortal MDVs with just an Excellency the effect of an extra auto-success is that resisting costs 1/3 of a point of willpower more, which is horribly inefficient compared to Charms.
It's a constant, passive, reduction to all opponents' MDVs.
The more successes you beat a target's MDV by, the more willpower they have to spend. This means a high Appearance passively makes you better at literally everything social but writing.

No, he's an extremely powerful spellcaster in his own right. The Demon Summoning is, if anything, a side effect of his talent more than anything.
There are plenty of mortals that are extremely powerful spellcasters in Creation - when compared to mortals.

He almost certainly counts as god-blooded, in Exalted terms.
That's not much more powerful than a mortal.
 
It's a constant, passive, reduction to all opponents' MDVs.
The more successes you beat a target's MDV by, the more willpower they have to spend. This means a high Appearance passively makes you better at literally everything social but writing.


There are plenty of mortals that are extremely powerful spellcasters in Creation - when compared to mortals.


That's not much more powerful than a mortal.
I think the point being made here is "Dont assume you can just walk all over him".

So.

Let's not waste time with the semantic bullshit.
 
In a secondary focus, sure, but in their primary focus even a fresh Solar tends to curb-stomp anything short of a spirit (Essence 3-4) with the same focus.
We haven't bothered training Presence at all. I noted a couple posts above we could probably be running roughshod over him in 12 hours if we wanted, 7 hours if we lean on Dia for that last dot of presence and drop Salesman Spirit.

*Shrug* The fallout might be a bit more messy though. Like I said, he's dug in.
 
You mean, 'might' be able to run roughshod over him. There are atleast two potential issues that come to mind though. One this is not Creation but Amala, so he might not need to take willpower hits etc as you might think, and his power might rate him higher here differently, as in, he might be stronger then you'd expect when compared to an exalted. Second is that this runs highly counter to Amu's personality, she wouldn't like such methods at all, which might mean she might not run the plan entirely as expected then.

Of course, that's all speculation and maybe not even very likely one. But they're still concerns, and messing such things up with no fallback is certainly risky when it's not necessary for getting things done. It's probably easier to work with in the system and try to make him want you do things in the areas that need doing.

This also allows one to put more XP and skills to solving the actual problems, rather then fighting the systems.
 
We haven't bothered training Presence at all. I noted a couple posts above we could probably be running roughshod over him in 12 hours if we wanted, 7 hours if we lean on Dia for that last dot of presence and drop Salesman Spirit.

*Shrug* The fallout might be a bit more messy though. Like I said, he's dug in.
Understatements are an amazing thing

As are assumptions.
 
With all this "lets use supernatural social-fu to make him do stuff" going on I must note that knowing when just plain start combat instead of continuing listening to "that persuasive person" is survival mechanism both in Exalted and in MegaTen universe. Supernaturally charismatic beings are a thing and "stop listening and start attacking" is a way to deal with them. Often enough the way.

Initiating social combat on this level with Hotsuin most likely will initiate just old normal combat with Hotsuin. Break social combat by attack is not "player-only" thing.

Want to make him listen? Make proper plans that he would support, not social-fu him. Also he despises social-fu even if he is good in it - he lives under biggest concentration in Japan after all...
 
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and his power might rate him higher here differently
Not really. Baughn gave a pretty clear measure of where he falls in Exalted terms:
He almost certainly counts as god-blooded, in Exalted terms.
Assuming Willpower 10, Integrity 5, Essence 3 (i.e. the maximum a god-blooded can get without becoming a spirit), he has a Dodge MDV of 9. We'll also give him an Appearance of 3 (attractive, but not especially so).
I'll use Amu's social stats with the modification of Presence 4 (necessary for ISS) and Socialize 2 (necessary for Mastery of Small Manners), and the addition of First Presence Excellency, Irresistible Salesman Spirit, Enemy Castigating Solar Judgement, and Mastery of Small Manners.

Amu makes a social attack where she attempts to make Hotsuin feel guilty for not spreading the Nicaea program to provide protection for emergency services. She gets a 2-die stunt (for the sake of argument; it's generally pretty easy, assuming the ST is using the guidelines from the book). She spends 6m on First Presence Excellency, 3m on Irresistible Salesman Spirit, 2m on Enemy Castigating Solar Judgement, and 1m on Mastery of Small Manners (total 12m spent). This gives her a dice pool of 16 dice, and we'll assume the roll is average, giving her 8 successes; this is promptly doubled to 16. Her Appearance of 4 (3 natural, +1 from MoSM) reduces Hotsuin's DMDV to 8. ECSJ cuts that in half to 4 (because this is a social attack attempting to create guilt). This gives Amu 12 threshold successes on her attack.

For every 3 full successes above the target's MDV, they must spend an additional 1 wp to resist. That single attack just drained half of Hotsuin's Willpower (1 + (12/3) = 1 + 4 = 5).

This is ignoring how playing to/against his Motivation, Intimacies, Virtues, etc., would change his MDV, because it's not really important to my point (ultimately, it's perhaps +1 to his MDV before halving): a Solar is completely capable of smashing a mortal in an area where they have invested themselves.

We have not invested in social combat, so we cannot do this yet. I realize this.
 
also like nobody Amu knows would approve o her social-fuing anyone, especially her parents, please do not make Amu social-fu her parents
 
Man, just imagine how fucked up this has to be for the P3 people. Holy shit. Hopefully Door-kun continues to be a Door. Or something.


Door q=q
 
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