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Renegade Sorceress Quest [40K]

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Slamu said:
How resource intensive would a formation like that be, anyway?
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Worse than trying to make an entire company of Terminator armored marines (which is in the AHAHAHAHA no category). We simply don't have the resources and manufacturing capability to pull it off.

Hell, I doubt any Chapter has the resources and manufacturing capability to pull it off, even with calling in a metric ton of favors from the Admech.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Worse than trying to make an entire company of Terminator armored marines (which is in the AHAHAHAHA no category). We simply don't have the resources and manufacturing capability to pull it off.

Hell, I doubt any Chapter has the resources and manufacturing capability to pull it off, even with calling in a metric ton of favors from the Admech.
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Well, we deploy 4 Contemplator Dreads per battle company. So once we have enough resources to build 25 Battle companies we would have enough Dreadnoughts to form a Dreadnought company. And thus probably enough resources to create one if we wanted to.
 
Slamu said:
How resource intensive would a formation like that be, anyway? I mean, they're very heavy hitters...but that can't scale well.
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Depends on losses, recruitment, rate of wounded that qualify for dreadnought conversion and general output of Contemptor class chassis. It would probably be possible, but only with a lot of build up.
 
Hazard said:
Depends on losses, recruitment, rate of wounded that qualify for dreadnought conversion and general output of Contemptor class chassis. It would probably be possible, but only with a lot of build up.
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Tisiphone and Cobalt-Seventeen have made a Contemptor pattern that's more like a MEC and doesn't need a nearly dead Space Marine, just the right set of cybernetics. So only talented pilots and production capacity are the limit here.
 
Arbit said:
Tisiphone and Cobalt-Seventeen have made a Contemptor pattern that's more like a MEC and doesn't need a nearly dead Space Marine, just the right set of cybernetics. So only talented pilots and production capacity are the limit here.
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Kind of a waste to pull Marines off the line for conversion into Contemptors given how valuable Marines are in general and how severely understrength the Storm Crows are in the face of all their potential threats.
 
Hazard said:
Kind of a waste to pull Marines off the line for conversion into Contemptors given how valuable Marines are in general and how severely understrength the Storm Crows are in the face of all their potential threats.
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Contemptors are a huge force multiplier and the Marines can just disconnect from them, unlike with normal Dreadnoughts, if needed.
 
Hazard said:
Kind of a waste to pull Marines off the line for conversion into Contemptors given how valuable Marines are in general and how severely understrength the Storm Crows are in the face of all their potential threats.
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You're misunderstanding.

Both Tisiphone/Cobalt's and the 'traditional' Dreadnought involve plugging a mortaly wounded Marine into a combat walker. We aren't taking healthy Marines and carving them up (that's the Iron Hands' shtick) The big difference is that normally the Space Marine can never leave his walking tomb and is put to sleep between battles. Our version is more expensive, requires a Contemptor chassis but allows the 'pilot' to keep interacting with the rest of the chapter (learning, training etc) but also allows them to try and escape the battlefield if their walker is mission-killed.

For the Crows, machinery and equipment can be replaced (remember everything we field, we can and have made ourselves) but experienced Marines are invaluable.
 
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Look, the real question to ask before making a huge number of expensive war-machines is if you can get something more useful done with all that effort. Dreadnoughts are really expensive, you can get a LOT of stuff for the same price... Maybe even ships.
 
Nah, not ships. That is a whole new level of bullshit resource management.

But basically, even with the Auriga-Pattern Interface, it's not a matter of slapping a USB Port on a Space Marine and calling it a day. Any pilot of a Dreadnought is a Space Marine that has been basically completely stripped of all their organs and augments, because they don't need it anymore. Instead, everything is cut out and replaced with interface augments and life support machinery, so that they can now become one with the giant metal death robot that everyone calls Uncle Blortface*.

The difference with the Auriga-Pattern Interface from the typical Imperial standard one is that the Auriga does not entomb a Space Marine inside a Dreadnought forever. I mean I know the typical Sarcophagus can probably be swapped out between Dreadnoughts in the event that one chassis is too trashed to operate ever again (even though that usually also means the pilot within is dead) but the Auriga ensures that a Dreadnought Pilot can still walk around, interact with their peers/fellows in the Chapter, and otherwise maintain relationships that a traditional Dreadnought pilot cannot sustain.

To put it succinctly:

Typical Dreadnought Pilots become immortalised in myth, and are only rarely awakened because Space Marines fear that waking them up for any random shitfuckery will piss the pilot within off (for good reason they usually just want to sleep the centuries away)

Auriga Dreadnought Pilots can potentially maintain a working relationship within the Chapter, even long after their initial interrment in the chassis. They will remain honored heroes in the Chapter, but in the same way an old Captain or living non-giant-robot Chapter Hero is, not in the immortalised-in-myth way that a Dreadnought is.

Either Way, the pilot is never picking up a bolter and shooting dudes in the face ever again.

*Because all the faces he punches go *blort*
 
Swordomatic said:
That is a whole new level of bullshit resource management.
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Speaking of ships I suspect that if we want to use the Battle Barge that we've 'acquired' we're going to need help from Imperial shipyards etc in order to get it fixed up.

Because if memory serves each 'normal' turn (before the invasion) was about five years. And our shipyard can build one Space Marine-grade escort in two turns. A strike cruiser on the other hand would take ten. I don't want to try and imagine how long getting the BB running would take for our current orbital industry.
 
Swordomatic said:
Any pilot of a Dreadnought is a Space Marine that has been basically completely stripped of all their organs and augments, because they don't need it anymore. Instead, everything is cut out and replaced with interface augments and life support machinery, so that they can now become one with the giant metal death robot that everyone calls Uncle Blortface*.
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Huh. It almost sounds like we don't need space marines for piloting our dreadnoughts, and could recruit them from ordinary soldiers.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Speaking of ships I suspect that if we want to use the Battle Barge that we've 'acquired' we're going to need help from Imperial shipyards etc in order to get it fixed up.

Because if memory serves each 'normal' turn (before the invasion) was about five years. And our shipyard can build one Space Marine-grade escort in two turns. A strike cruiser on the other hand would take ten. I don't want to try and imagine how long getting the BB running would take for our current orbital industry.
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Well, it was only minimally damaged. I think it needs some new plasma engines and armor plates, as well as someone looking it over with a fine comb to find any lingering taint, but other than that the ship is nigh pristine.
 
Chronic said:
Well, it was only minimally damaged. I think it needs some new plasma engines and armor plates, as well as someone looking it over with a fine comb to find any lingering taint, but other than that the ship is nigh pristine.
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It's a Chaos ship. Cleansing the taint is probably going to involve meltas and flamers at multiple points.
 
Swordomatic said:
Typical Dreadnought Pilots become immortalised in myth, and are only rarely awakened because Space Marines fear that waking them up for any random shitfuckery will piss the pilot within off (for good reason they usually just want to sleep the centuries away)
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And for good measure, the sleeping could be avoided.

I mean, most Chaos dreads don't sleep away the years on their ships. I mean, sure, they're all batfuckingshit insane, and need to be kept in chains that have links bigger than some laborers to avoid them going around murdering everything on the ship while not in combat, but hey, you could skip the sleeping.

Theoretically.
 
Night_stalker said:
And for good measure, the sleeping could be avoided.
I mean, most Chaos dreads don't sleep away the years on their ships. I mean, sure, they're all batfuckingshit insane, and need to be kept in chains that have links bigger than some laborers to avoid them going around murdering everything on the ship while not in combat, but hey, you could skip the sleeping.
Theoretically.
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But how much of that is the "Dreadnought" part and how much is the "Chaos" part?
 
RogueInquisitor said:
The point is, performing an overhaul would be much cheaper and easier than building one from scratch.
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That's a given. Most 40k ships (particularly Battle Barges are really hard to make and can take decades/centuries. (from lexicanum)
Constructed with its unique role of low-orbit planetary assault in mind, the battle barges' skeletons were forged from a an ultra-dense alloy. The rare base mineral can only be mined from the sites of recent volcanic eruptions, and is further hardened by ballast compression tanks situated on high-gravity moons. The pressurized environment hardens the alloy, ensuring the superstructure is as solid as the doors protecting the Emperor's throne room itself. These inner frameworks were then girded in kilometres of hardened plasteel and adamantium, and edged with thick ferrocrete buttresses that surround the main hull like a reinforced rib-cage. Finally, a second and ablative layer of armour was added to each vessel's prow, forging an impenetrable figurehead for the indomitable fury of a battle barge.
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Heck, depending on how the Battle Barge and the Dainsleif compare, we might even be able to apply some upgrades to one or both.
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Maybe, maybe not. Considering it was a Chaos BB, that means 10-to-1 it's a pre-Heresy ship like the Dainsleif. Ergo that there might be fewer differences that one might think.
 
Look, I'm going to cut this off now.

The Thunderhead Fortress is perfectly salvagable. You won't get it until the end of the current story arc, because there's a fair amount of work that needs to be done, but the primary superstructure is perfectly fine, and it takes a lot for Chaos to fully wreck something beyond recovery, barring a cursed ship line (Which Battle Barges are not)

I'll be posting an update about the aftermath tonight.
 
FullNothingness said:
Look, the real question to ask before making a huge number of expensive war-machines is if you can get something more useful done with all that effort. Dreadnoughts are really expensive, you can get a LOT of stuff for the same price... Maybe even ships.
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Force concentration.

Normal Space Marines are already a case of concentrating force to the point where it becomes inefficient. It generally being cheaper to just send a fuckton of guardsmen. Dreads would be more force concentration and more expense.

Hazard said:
Depends on losses, recruitment, rate of wounded that qualify for dreadnought conversion and general output of Contemptor class chassis. It would probably be possible, but only with a lot of build up.
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Remember when I compared it to Triarii?

Third line, they would be deployed when things go wrong but are potentially salvageable. Used more to prevent the potential loss of (half a)battle company's worth in deaths and mission failure, or something like providing a bastion for multiple companies to rally around.

By the time we're getting enough mangled space marines for it to become viable? We'll probably be either justifying our legion-style setup or managing multiple 'chapters'
 
I can't help but think about the various reports/messages that the Deathwatch team etc will be sending to their higher-ups. Because entirely new chapter that apparently rebuilt itself from survivors of a pre-heresy expedition*? They are so going to be informing their Chapter Leadership etc.

*The general backstory we've been working with:
"My people have been isolated from the greater galaxy for some time, and many of the specifics of what had occured had been lost to the mists of time." You take a sip of the offered drink. "Few were candidates for what we had referred to as the Rite of Becoming, and with all the dangers on the edge of the Rift, few would acquire much experience, especially when the most advanced tools on hand until relatively recently were those of hand-forged steel, which made armour maintenence something of a trial."

You considered coming up with a more elaborate story for a while, one that played to their preconceptions, but you tossed it out shortly before the determined meeting--these weren't people who assumed their first guess was accurate, and you would simply end up revealing the depth of your information network, and likely be presented as an enemy.

"Not impossible mind you, but it was very much a master-to-apprentice routine we had going for us. I just happened to have the good fortune of discovering where the ancient ship was, and took the secrets kept within to begin developing the planet to something more respectable." You grin at that. "Of course, that also leaves me in nominal control, but the way I see it, the alternative was some charismatic overlord with more ambition than sense to try setting up camp, and my people had suffered enough by then, and we had lost enough of our brothers and sisters to those raiders from the stars."

A fair story, well coordinated to explain your capabilities, while leaving just enough wiggle room to handwave off any discreptancies that might have shown up, with the whole thing on the Citadel a few centuries back. Even if you didn't leave any bodies behind, and few would have gotten a good look at you and Lilith, it was still just good sense to cover your bases. The Gods liked attacking through those angles anyway.
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Of course when Deathwatch compares notes as to what we deployed, they're going to get a hint that we aren't scrub-tier when it comes to technology. Particularly when they recall this line:
"We can help with that" Inquisitor Arkhan agreed. "Salvage Rights we can work out as we go--and repair and resupply can be handled from our own stocks... You're not using anything particularly exotic, are you?"

You shake your head. "Not really, our smiths managed to preserve a modest amount of secrets from antiquity, but mostly just what can be fabricated and supplied with limited resources."
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Oh they aren't going to see the Sicarans, Contemptors etc but they will see our Terminators. Terminators are is supposed to be rare, mostly hand made pieces of equipment and the Forge worlds are pretty much the only ones that can produce any from scratch. The thing is not only were our hero Marines in Tartaros Pattern armor, there is also a Terminator squad in the 1st Company (which 10 to 1 Deathwatch will see). This will imply that A: We know how to make Terminator armor and/or B: there was a good supply on the 'ancient starship'.
 
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