Pro Patria (Valkyria Chronicles)
- Thread starter Emdeman
- Start date
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
[X] Send them to the right to attempt a flanking manoeuvre.
-[] Tell the flanking force's CO to remain vigilant of Federal movements and to find a way to maintain contact with the centre if possible.
Inspired by @AlER's post, I'm envisioning the force being sent as being ordered to conduct a reconnaissance in force to find out what is happening in our right flank. Though it kinda looks like I just want to have my cake and eat it too, and it may be taken that the flanking force would be doing this if the base choice was selected. Thoughts? (I'm honestly hoping to get critiqued)
As I've said upthread, terrifying. But it also was very entertaining with the battle swaying back and forth as well as having important consequences and providing speculation fuel (plus a bit worldbuilding on the side). While certainly not to the detail of Letterstime or Operation Unicorn, if the author reminds me of them while reading their work, they're not doing wrong.
-[] Tell the flanking force's CO to remain vigilant of Federal movements and to find a way to maintain contact with the centre if possible.
Inspired by @AlER's post, I'm envisioning the force being sent as being ordered to conduct a reconnaissance in force to find out what is happening in our right flank. Though it kinda looks like I just want to have my cake and eat it too, and it may be taken that the flanking force would be doing this if the base choice was selected. Thoughts? (I'm honestly hoping to get critiqued)
As I've said upthread, terrifying. But it also was very entertaining with the battle swaying back and forth as well as having important consequences and providing speculation fuel (plus a bit worldbuilding on the side). While certainly not to the detail of Letterstime or Operation Unicorn, if the author reminds me of them while reading their work, they're not doing wrong.
I'm not actually happy with the last few updates. The Federation Navy has been hyped as the premiere naval power with better ships, more ships, better training and a better commander. But towards the latter part of the battle I saw none of that.
The Imperial ships got every single break and were often either damaged or managed to flee, while every Federation ship that was lost was sunk. When the Imperials roll drastically low, like in 3.15 all that happens is that the Elodie takes damage (significant, but not crippling), meanwhile in 3.16 an above average Imperial roll finishes off a Federation Battleship.
Furthermore, we stopped seeing the Federation Navy's rolls entirely and instead just watched the Imperials, who were getting to keep the best roll out two. No wonder they came back, they are literally getting plot shields.
Another instance is earlier in 3.13 where the Imperial Navy rolls 42 points lower than the Federation but deals more damage to the fleet despite having both fewer and lower quality ships. The roll should have been a significant loss for the Imperials, but all it seemed like was an even worse loss for the Federation.
Especially when the 4 Federation destroyers lost were fully sunk whereas of the 4 Imperials ships "lost" all of them get to run away or worse yet, appear to play dead and get to significantly influence the battle later on.
wtf?! Like I said, it seems like the Imperial navy suddenly got plot shields in the last portion of the battle and nothing the Federation could do could change their fate.
Please bear this in mind in the future, I personally will not feel like I achieved all that much if I get handed a victory I didn't help earn or runs contrary to what I see in the fluff and dice rolls.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
[X] Send them to the right to attempt a flanking manoeuvre
Emdeman
The Atlantic Federation
- Location
- Australia
That was shown in all the dice rolls, they got a flat +10 boost and a 5d6 Admiral etc. In the latter part of battle that gradually got negated since the a multi-hour battle was extremely gruelling and everyone was bone tired. All the ships had taken damage to some degree. Also, it was getting close to dusk and visibility was getting worse. Anyway, I think you have a point. I was rushing the last stage to get it done to prepare for RL things and probably didn't put as much detail as I should have.
Every ship the Federation "lost" was not sunk. Some were just heavily damaged, some just disengaged like the Heavy Cruiser. Some were even ordered out of the field to pursue fleeing foes like the two destroyers in 3.13. I probably should have written that more clearly. Though I tried to be fairly ambiguous most of the time if a ship that was put out of commission actually sank or took simply debilitating damage.
Bear in mind, that Fed battleship took a mine early on and was heavily damaged. It was also running extremely understrength with a bare minimum crew. It didn't help that it took more hits afterwards. That ship should have withdrawn earlier from the damage it took but decided to keep fighting. Whereas half the Imp fleet fled from a panicky Vice-Admiral. The roll for 3.15 was an individual roll just for Elodie's Wrath. Most of the time luck plays a role in the Imps success.
The last three updates from 3.14-3.16 weren't about performance (notice they weren't titled "Name" Navy). They were all essentially survival rolls for Elodie's Wrath to see how long she lasted. The Fed Navy didn't roll as they had pretty much won the battle.
To reiterate; the Feds only lost 2 destroyers in that update (read the line right above the Fed loss figure). The other two destroyers were sent off to pursue the fleeing escorts to make sure they didn't return. I just put in them in the loss category to make it clear they wouldn't play any further role in the battle (the word loss wasn't quite literal there). It was bit of arrogance on the Fed commanders part. Those two destroyers survived the battle and made their way back to port.
The result of that update was a full morale collapse among the imperial escorts.
Fair enough, though I think you're making a few mistaken assumptions.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post and address my concerns.
It has provided a clearer picture of what occurred than I could easily gather from the updates.
I still enjoy this quest quite a bit, I was just getting irked over how lopsided things appeared to be in the Imperials favor even when the dice shown seemed to be telling a different story.
I will be sure to take more time to properly interpret the details (or just ask questions first) if I ever consider embarking on a similar rant in the future.
Emdeman
The Atlantic Federation
- Location
- Australia
Will post something after my exams tomorrow.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
[X] Send them to the ridges to bulk up the force already there
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
[X] Send them to the ridges to bulk up the force already there
Interlude: A couple of letters
Emdeman
The Atlantic Federation
- Location
- Australia
Dear Mrs Lindt
Find enclosed the report requested. Interest in naval affairs is always welcome from non-military personnel. It is hoped that the outcome of this battle will increase the profile of the navy. More appreciation from the public can only lead to increased future support.
Author: Bureau of Naval Affairs, Casualty Office
Source: Scarpa Flow Dockmaster
A summary of the damage and losses taken by the 2nd Fleet from the recent engagement in the Ligurian Gulf:
1 Battleship: Crippled
1 Battlecruiser: Sunk
1 Battlecruiser: Moderate damage
2 Heavy Cruisers: Sunk
1 Heavy Cruiser: Crippled
1 Heavy Cruiser: Severe damage
2 Heavy Cruisers: Moderate damage
2 Light Cruisers: Sunk
2 Light Cruisers: Crippled
1 Light Cruisers: Severe damage
2 Light Cruisers: Moderate damage
4 Destroyers: Sunk
1 Destroyer: Crippled
7 Destroyers: Severe damage
1 Destroyer: Moderate damage
7 Destroyer Escorts: Sunk
2 Destroyer Escorts: Crippled
3 Destroyer Escorts: Severe damage
7 Destroyer Escorts: Moderate damage
Estimated naval strength after 3 weeks*
1 Battlecruiser
2 Heavy Cruisers
3 Light Cruisers
4 Destroyers
9 Destroyer Escorts
*Best case scenario, unlikely to be met. Not any concern since no naval battles are probable after the crushing victory.
Estimated naval strength after 6 months*
1 Battleship
2 Battlecruisers
5 Heavy Cruisers
6 Light Cruisers
15 Destroyers
12 Destroyer Escorts
*Included new production, excluding any shakedown problems. A far more likely time scale for any future engagement.
Despite these heavy losses, the 2nd Fleet sunk multiple times over its size in enemies. Only sixteen vessels lost for over 40+ Federal vessels sunk, not counting the lopsided tonnage losses. Putting paid to the vaunted reputation of Combined Fleet. It is certain that with extra resources this feat could be replicated in the future.
Sincerely,
Bureau of Naval Affairs, Nova Office
Dear Madam Lindt
This is an unusual request from you. Nevertheless, given past assistance I see no harm in sharing this information. Pass my regards onto your son.
Information origin: local IIS elements
Evaluation provided by DMI analysts.
The Federation navy has suffered heavy losses and will not be battle ready in the following while. However, this will be a short state of affairs as heavy fleet elements are already on rout to reinforce Greenhill's decimated force. Shown below is a list of confirmed losses, corroborated with accounts from local dockworkers, teamsters, bereaved and other undisclosed sources.
Losses
3 Battleships
1 Battlecruiser
3 Heavy Cruisers
5 Light Cruisers
11 Destroyers
6 Destroyer Escorts
Ships observed in a state of notable damage:
2 Battleships
8 Destroyers
2 Destroyer Escorts
This is the estimated fleet size as of date Alpha. Bear in mind this is a pessimistic approximation including heavily damaged ships.
Current approximate fleet numbers (counting damaged vessels):
2 Battleships
1 Light Cruiser
15 Destroyers
11 Destroyer Escorts
This summary of the local naval forces include the fresh squadron of escorts that arrived the day after the battle. It is estimated that additional capital ships will arrive within two to three weeks, with lighter ships arriving periodically. Though it is doubtful they will be needed as the stranded portions of General Hall's army are unexpected to last that long as an organised force. Nevertheless, it should be viewed as a strategic success that such heavy assets are being diverted from more important fronts. The blow to the Federation Navy's reputation and prestige cannot be underestimated. Still, expect General Chainy's army to be pressured by shore bombardment soon after the new battleships arrive.
I am trusting this information is kept discreet as usual of course. Despite the mixed outcome, that front is progressing fairly well as far as I can tell.
May you have a good day.
Regards,
Director Jimena
Find enclosed the report requested. Interest in naval affairs is always welcome from non-military personnel. It is hoped that the outcome of this battle will increase the profile of the navy. More appreciation from the public can only lead to increased future support.
***
Author: Bureau of Naval Affairs, Casualty Office
Source: Scarpa Flow Dockmaster
A summary of the damage and losses taken by the 2nd Fleet from the recent engagement in the Ligurian Gulf:
1 Battleship: Crippled
1 Battlecruiser: Sunk
1 Battlecruiser: Moderate damage
2 Heavy Cruisers: Sunk
1 Heavy Cruiser: Crippled
1 Heavy Cruiser: Severe damage
2 Heavy Cruisers: Moderate damage
2 Light Cruisers: Sunk
2 Light Cruisers: Crippled
1 Light Cruisers: Severe damage
2 Light Cruisers: Moderate damage
4 Destroyers: Sunk
1 Destroyer: Crippled
7 Destroyers: Severe damage
1 Destroyer: Moderate damage
7 Destroyer Escorts: Sunk
2 Destroyer Escorts: Crippled
3 Destroyer Escorts: Severe damage
7 Destroyer Escorts: Moderate damage
Estimated naval strength after 3 weeks*
1 Battlecruiser
2 Heavy Cruisers
3 Light Cruisers
4 Destroyers
9 Destroyer Escorts
*Best case scenario, unlikely to be met. Not any concern since no naval battles are probable after the crushing victory.
Estimated naval strength after 6 months*
1 Battleship
2 Battlecruisers
5 Heavy Cruisers
6 Light Cruisers
15 Destroyers
12 Destroyer Escorts
*Included new production, excluding any shakedown problems. A far more likely time scale for any future engagement.
***
Despite these heavy losses, the 2nd Fleet sunk multiple times over its size in enemies. Only sixteen vessels lost for over 40+ Federal vessels sunk, not counting the lopsided tonnage losses. Putting paid to the vaunted reputation of Combined Fleet. It is certain that with extra resources this feat could be replicated in the future.
Sincerely,
Bureau of Naval Affairs, Nova Office
Dear Madam Lindt
This is an unusual request from you. Nevertheless, given past assistance I see no harm in sharing this information. Pass my regards onto your son.
***
Information origin: local IIS elements
Evaluation provided by DMI analysts.
The Federation navy has suffered heavy losses and will not be battle ready in the following while. However, this will be a short state of affairs as heavy fleet elements are already on rout to reinforce Greenhill's decimated force. Shown below is a list of confirmed losses, corroborated with accounts from local dockworkers, teamsters, bereaved and other undisclosed sources.
Losses
3 Battleships
1 Battlecruiser
3 Heavy Cruisers
5 Light Cruisers
11 Destroyers
6 Destroyer Escorts
Ships observed in a state of notable damage:
2 Battleships
8 Destroyers
2 Destroyer Escorts
This is the estimated fleet size as of date Alpha. Bear in mind this is a pessimistic approximation including heavily damaged ships.
Current approximate fleet numbers (counting damaged vessels):
2 Battleships
1 Light Cruiser
15 Destroyers
11 Destroyer Escorts
This summary of the local naval forces include the fresh squadron of escorts that arrived the day after the battle. It is estimated that additional capital ships will arrive within two to three weeks, with lighter ships arriving periodically. Though it is doubtful they will be needed as the stranded portions of General Hall's army are unexpected to last that long as an organised force. Nevertheless, it should be viewed as a strategic success that such heavy assets are being diverted from more important fronts. The blow to the Federation Navy's reputation and prestige cannot be underestimated. Still, expect General Chainy's army to be pressured by shore bombardment soon after the new battleships arrive.
***
I am trusting this information is kept discreet as usual of course. Despite the mixed outcome, that front is progressing fairly well as far as I can tell.
May you have a good day.
Regards,
Director Jimena
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Moving inland means being cut off and destroyed or forced to surrender in almost any event. I'd rather try to seize a port and go for immediate evacuation if at all feasible than gamble on flailing about without supplies in a hostile country.
- Location
- In a Fantasy
Thing is that our navy isn't going to come soon
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Neither is the Federation navy. We have a window of maybe two weeks before heavy reinforcements arrive. The alternative is that POW arc.
In addition to the Feds harassing any attempt to leave at every stage, even if there is no decisive battle.
Still... A running battle wouldn't lose us anything at this point, even if we (eventually) get run down. Introduce the concept of motorized infantry in a sort of March From the Sea?
Still... A running battle wouldn't lose us anything at this point, even if we (eventually) get run down. Introduce the concept of motorized infantry in a sort of March From the Sea?
- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He
I am afraid we do not have even this small window. The enemy has battle-ready ships:
Given that we threw everything and the Armed Merchantmen at the Feds, we simply don't have neither the speed to outrun or firepower to repel the Destroyers/Escorts/whatever they have. Even if we stall them with a convenient shore battery, as soon as our Transports leave the shore gun range, we will be hunted and sunk.
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
The only real chance we have is blitzing back towards friendly lines, hitting some element in the back hard enough to open a breach, and being relieved on the ground. The Feddies already have fresh naval troops in the area and that was basically it for us.
MacroDaemon
Lachrymose Lapis
We have about two to three weeks before the Federation is likely to be comfortable enough to send their capital ships back into the area. In that time, we need to either evacuate or at the very least, secure additional supplies.
Given the Federations naval dominance, it's very likely that they use ships to transport supplies as close to their front as they can, so if we can capture a port town, chances are good that it will have supplies meant for the front.
Currently, though, for pretty much any plan to work, we need to move quickly, not methodically. Surprise and a rapid pace are the only allies we have as of right now.
Given the Federations naval dominance, it's very likely that they use ships to transport supplies as close to their front as they can, so if we can capture a port town, chances are good that it will have supplies meant for the front.
Currently, though, for pretty much any plan to work, we need to move quickly, not methodically. Surprise and a rapid pace are the only allies we have as of right now.
- Location
- Canada
sounds like a good idea to me, it would have my vote