PHO Blacksmithery - Brockton's Celestial Forge

[snrbryjm]

[X] Post
URA310BBY:

Hey, what can be more terrifying than Stranger in power armor? One that can fly. Usually fliers are at least save from these sneaky bastards, but apparently Lethe can backstab you even if you chilling at 5 kilometers above the sea level.

Also, anyone know what the hell was that Fleet's attack? I think I saw someone call it Finish Line or something. Like, I know people deducted that it was probably some dimensional bullshit, but how Fleet executed this attack if Tripredacus Guardian was built by Apeiron himself?

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Apeiron could have started building dimensional shit (or the other possible tinkers) into the Guardian. What we know is that Fleet had the idea, and executed it by Apeirons words, possibly with pre-existing tech. Though it begs the question, why wasnt he better prepared for March if he was already building offensive dimensional weaponry? Youd think if he was researching it at all hed focus on his apparent arch nemesis.
Anyway Id compare it to more of a trick shot with a gun versus completely new tech, but Fleet could take after Apeiron with the rapid assembly and modification. Who knows at this point

No where is safe from Lethe, we mere mortals can only beg to the universe that she lets us be.
(But no really, how maneuverable is she? Could she pop over to a different state to have a 'chat' with the local Protectorate or annoying capes real fast?)

Don't forget that Survey has Thinker powers augmented by Apeiron tech. That, frankly, is more terrifying

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If we could only get even the tiniest hint of the limits/applications, I could (hypothetically) consider sleeping in the next century. Seriously, from ''normal'' information gathering tinkertech, to some plain bullshit power applications who knows! Survey could be a Thinker: Yes with rapidly growing powers to meet Apeiron in the middle. She could be connected to essentially every network at once. She could have his overpowered scanners built directly in her. The fucking stars apparently arent a limit

We don't know what abilities Fleet has other than being a tinker with (possibly) a vehicle specialty? And being fast as fuck boi
We don't know (for sure) whether he's a Brute or just wears an Apeiron grade safety suit that protects him during high speed movement.
Also how fast do you think Fleet is? He's kinda stealing your thunder so any thoughts on that?

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Whered you get the vehicle stuff? His name? Isnt that an allusion to his speed? Or I guess it could be yet another double meaning, since the CF loves having everything pull double time with secondary effects...
Whatever Fleets speed is, hes not nearly as limited as a lot of speedster capes. He was able to independantly speed up one of his arms to a frankly already spooky speed without much effort. And since this is CF, hes not going to fall into any mover pitfalls. Personally im banking on 'Velocity, but no drawbacks' added ontop of his possible tinker subrating. Or maybe the speeds tech?

 

[JustMe04]

[Does Velocity has a canon PHO account? Lemme know if he does]

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[All the Protectorate and Wards have official PHO accounts to 'connect with the public' but they rarely use them except for press releases because they get so much spam and @S]
[X]Post
Just_Me (Verified Just Him) (Nobody Else) said:

Also how fast do you think Fleet is? He's kinda stealing your thunder so any thoughts on that?

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Is it just me or does anyone else think that Velocity should have more of Breaker rating than a Mover one. He gets weaker the faster he goes, but in all the clips where he drops back to normal, does it seem like he's out of breath? Not to me. I think he's screwing with time and then going for a stroll at the appropriate speed to get where he's going, and as a side effect, he divorces himself from conventional physics, both in what can affect him (running at certain speeds without a breaker effect would get you killed the first time you hit a bug or a pebble) and what can affect him. It seems like Fleet might be more pure speed and less breaker.

I think I saw someone call it Finish Line or something

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That's actually a really good name for it.

In which case can he have entire fleet of empowered vehicles and just mass bombard any opponent that will try to fight him?

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That is a terrifying thought. Although, it seems like the bike/mechsuit was destroyed by doing that, even though it was Apeiron grade tech. If he was empowering the bike somehow (like Dauntless+Hellhound), I don't think he could get the same results with a weaker or lower-tech vehicle. For example, trying to use a car from the 1960s in a similar manner would probably not even fail spectacularly, it would just whimper and die.
[

The Matrix. The holy-fuck-sized robot that walked into Apeiron's gun safe and said "yes".

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Do you mind if I sig this? It's literally the first thing I've ever seen that I actually wanted to sig]

 

[snrbryjm]

[X] Post
lockstonjon:

Is it just me or does anyone else think that Velocity should have more of Breaker rating than a Mover one.

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Velocity does have a Breaker rating? His Mover rating is his subrating aka the power granted by his Breaker state. Are you from out of town? Id recc you brush up on your local cape facts then
Also, remember guys, PRT ratings are for functionality, aka how the PRT will treat the cape, versus accurate description of the power mechanics. Thats what debriefs are for

[All the Protectorate and Wards have official PHO accounts to 'connect with the public' but they rarely use them except for press releases because they get so much spam and @S]

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[Think they meant a canon acc we know of, and to my knowledge we dont have the @ so anything should be fine.]

 

[MaimakteriAnn]

[X] Post
VerifiedCape (Verified verification tag)

[X] Post
lockstonjon:

Velocity does have a Breaker rating? His Mover rating is his subrating aka the power granted by his Breaker state. Are you from out of town? Id recc you brush up on your local cape facts then
...

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I'm more confused that people itt keep saying shadow stalker can pass through walls with her stranger rating. Turning into a cloud of shadow makes her hard to see, which is, definitionally, a stranger power. Passing through walls is a breaker effect, also, coincidentally, her primary prt rating.

 

[Vers]

Do you mind if I sig this? It's literally the first thing I've ever seen that I actually wanted to sig

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[Go ahead lol]

Whered you get the vehicle stuff?

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[I just assumed this discussion is happening after the PRT press release so the public knows that Fleet designed the motoroids...]

 

[JustMe04]

[X]Post
Just_Me (Verified Just Him) (Nobody Else) said:

I'm more confused that people itt keep saying shadow stalker can pass through walls with her stranger rating. Turning into a cloud of shadow makes her hard to see, which is, definitionally, a stranger power. Passing through walls is a breaker effect, also, coincidentally, her primary prt rating.

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A Stranger power is any parahuman or superhuman ability or skill that makes it easier for you to infiltrate a location, disguise yourself (several of these also fall under Changer), or divert attention from yourself. Lethe is technically a Master/Stranger combo, because she isn't bending light, she's messing with people's memories. A pure stranger with a similar effect would be more breaker/shaker to change how light behaves in an area where they want to camouflage or turn invisible. I think that Stranger ratings all fit more under other categories in mechanics, but how they behave or are used is what makes them Stranger powers.

[Go ahead lol]

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[Thanks.]

 

[Divad]

[X]Post
Just_Me (Verified Just Him) (Nobody Else) said:

A Stranger power is any parahuman or superhuman ability or skill that makes it easier for you to infiltrate a location, disguise yourself (several of these also fall under Changer), or divert attention from yourself. Lethe is technically a Master/Stranger combo, because she isn't bending light, she's messing with people's memories. A pure stranger with a similar effect would be more breaker/shaker to change how light behaves in an area where they want to camouflage or turn invisible. I think that Stranger ratings all fit more under other categories in mechanics, but how they behave or are used is what makes them Stranger powers.

[Thanks.]

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[X] Post
Knownothing:

Lethe, isn't a master, as far as we know. Masters are defined as those who fight using minions, not as those who control minds. It applies as much to Alviss, that chick who tried to hold Ottawa hostage with a nutcracker army back in December 95, as it does to people like Heartbreaker of Insight. To the best of our knowledge Lethe is just an unparalleled Stranger with an unspeakably powerful set of power armor. Though, would we know if she was also a Master or a Blaster? Do we even know that she's really flying with that power armor and she isn't just disguising that she's an Alexandria package?

 

[JustMe04]

[X]Post
Just_Me (Verified Just Him) (Nobody Else) said:

Lethe, isn't a master, as far as we know. Masters are defined as those who fight using minions, not as those who control minds.
...
Though, would we know if she was also a Master or a Blaster? Do we even know that she's really flying with that power armor and she isn't just disguising that she's an Alexandria package?

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I meant Master in mechanic, not in her fighting style or threat combat method. Anything that interferes with another person's mind is a Master effect. Whether that's ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, directed emotional changes such as Gallant's beams, GG's aura, changing a person's senses in a parahuman gaslighting campaign, changing someone's memories, those are all Master powers in mechanic, even if they facilitate a personal fighting style/anti fighting style that more appropriately belongs to another category.

I bet the suit gives Lethe a Mover/Blaster rating all on it's own.

 

[Divad]

[X]Post
Just_Me (Verified Just Him) (Nobody Else) said:

I meant Master in mechanic, not in her fighting style or threat combat method. Anything that interferes with another person's mind is a Master effect. Whether that's ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, directed emotional changes such as Gallant's beams, GG's aura, changing a person's senses in a parahuman gaslighting campaign, changing someone's memories, those are all Master powers in mechanic, even if they facilitate a personal fighting style/anti fighting style that more appropriately belongs to another category.

I bet the suit gives Lethe a Mover/Blaster rating all on it's own.

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[X] Post
Knownothing:

That's just the thing, dude. There isn't a Master mechanic there is just people who fight using minions. Abilities like Simon the Likeable who made people unwilling to stop or arrest him because he just seemed so nice qualifies as a Master because people would help him, even fight for him. Glimpse, on the other hand is classified as a Shaker even though she would mess with people's minds by trapping them in a personalized illusion that made them experience their worst nightmare. "Master" has nothing to do with effecting people's minds, the terms have nothing to do with how they work.

[Perhaps someone should come in here and prevent a derail.]

 

[Redikai]

[X] Post
Knownothing:

That's just the thing, dude. There isn't a Master mechanic there is just people who fight using minions. Abilities like Simon the Likeable who made people unwilling to stop or arrest him because he just seemed so nice qualifies as a Master because people would help him, even fight for him. Glimpse, on the other hand is classified as a Shaker even though she would mess with people's minds by trapping them in a personalized illusion that made them experience their worst nightmare. "Master" has nothing to do with effecting people's minds, the terms have nothing to do with how they work.

[Perhaps someone should come in here and prevent a derail.]

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[X] Post
LastThursday:

If a parahuman's power affects your mind, they're a Master. If they use minions, they're a Master. That's just a fact. It's weird, there should probably be some separation, but that's just how things are. The only reason some capes aren't Masters is politics/PR, which in turn just makes distinguishing what is and isn't a Master even more confusing.

 

[Brainstorm813]

[X] Post
LastThursday:

If a parahuman's power affects your mind, they're a Master. If they use minions, they're a Master. That's just a fact. It's weird, there should probably be some separation, but that's just how things are. The only reason some capes aren't Masters is politics/PR, which in turn just makes distinguishing what is and isn't a Master even more confusing.

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[X] Post
Wiseass:
And what does that mean, exactly? If somebody stabs you, your mind will feel pain. Somebody seduces you, your mind will feel pleasure. Somebody's power is to scream so loud that you bleed from your ears; a healer that corrects any hormonal imbalances you might have, they all affect the mind. Fuck, you could turn a saint into a raging psychopath through classic brainwashing alone.
Who is Master and who is not? Where do you draw the line?

 

[Vers]

[X] Post
RandomBullshitGo says:

I meant Master in mechanic, not in her fighting style or threat combat method

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I think you're just over thinking and over complicating things.
The Mover, Shaker, Brute, Breaker, etc. etc. classification is just the PRT power classification system they use to identify parahuman threats and strategize accordingly. The classification is only intended to rate the threat posed by the power itself and to identify the protocols they need to follow to counter it. We all (should) know this.
[Stolen from the wiki]
When you use the PRT classification terms like Master, Stranger, etc. to describe how a power works, you're just confusing everybody.. (or is it just me??)
Let me clarify.
Strangers are capes with an ability focusing on stealth and/or infiltration. Lethe is therefore a (god-tier) Stranger. How she achieve this effect, and how to (possibly) counter it (as much as they can, at any rate) is included in their protocols for engaging Lethe.
Shakers are capes with an AOE type power. So even though GloryGirl's aura affect the mind, she can't be called a Master because Masters are capes who make/use minions to fight, which require a completely different approach in engagement.
See how things can get really confusing?

Who is Master and who is not? Where do you draw the line?

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See, this guy's confused too (I think)
Master capes, as I mentioned have a power to create/use minions to fight. That's it. Don't over think it. That way lies madness and depression..
If you're assuming that being a Master means being able to control/manipulate others, you're not entirely correct. Disregarding the fact that powers aren't strictly necessary to manipulate someone, a lot of capes can do that kinda thing. E.g. March.
That hypothetical line you're seeking, has been brutally fucked over and is silently weeping in a corner ever since parahuman powers became a thing...


Also, we're going way off topic here! Can we get back to discussing baseless theories, hypothetical nightmare scenarios and making mountains outta molehills as we're supposed to do in this thread? Pretty please?

 

[Mojave Courier]

[X] Post
MojaveCourier says:

Also, we're going way off topic here! Can we get back to discussing baseless theories, hypothetical nightmare scenarios and making mountains outta molehills as we're supposed to do in this thread? Pretty please?

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RandomBullshit is right. I come to PHO to be stupid and have fun. I don't really want to think too much whenever I'm here. I do that enough at work.

Moving onwards, has Nilbog been brought up?

 

[snrbryjm]

[X] Post
allthetimeallthetime:

Moving onwards, has Nilbog been brought up?

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Apeiron has shown he rlly rlly loves massive attacks so he could probably whip up a super nuke within a minute and leave it a crater. Matrix is Very Big and I guess Lethe could sneak in and kill him directly. Doubt that the suit isnt strong enough to handle that shit at this point. Think the other members would be mostly fucked though, no current armor to help with the 88783947 poisons and radiation shit and idk if Fleet could replicate that attack to a big enough scale to fully destroy an entire town.

Nilbog is annoying bc you RLLY have to kill like EVERYTHING in that damn town

 

[Mojave Courier]

[X] Post
MojaveCourier says:

idk if Fleet could replicate that attack to a big enough scale to fully destroy an entire town.

Nilbog is annoying bc you RLLY have to kill like EVERYTHING in that damn town

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Ellisburg isn't really that big and doing some probably very inaccurate math here, Fleet would only need a bigger vehicle which I'm sure Apeiron could provide. Or maybe Apeiron could build some sort of time stop nuke, take a page out of Bakuda's playbook, so to speak.

 

[Brainstorm813]

[X] Post
Wiseass:

no current armor to help with the 88783947 poisons and radiation shit

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Lethe's suit is fully sealed. How is mere poison going to even touch her? Also, you really think THE ENIGMATIC ARTIFICER wouldn't have a few thousand different counters for the big name capes already? I mean, they could probably no-sell the poison and viruses or whatever with his bullshit healing alone. If all else fails, throw Proto Aima at Nilbog. What's a puny biotinker going to do to the ultimate predator that ever existed?
Also, they might not even need to fight. He might surrender willingly. Let Survey bat her eyelashes at him. Let's see how long he lasts.

 

[snrbryjm]

[X] Post
allthetimeallthetime:

Lethe's suit is fully sealed. How is mere poison going to even touch her? Also, you really think THE ENIGMATIC ARTIFICER wouldn't have a few thousand different counters for the big name capes already? I mean, they could probably no-sell the poison and viruses or whatever with his bullshit healing alone. If all else fails, throw Proto Aima at Nilbog. What's a puny biotinker going to do to the ultimate predator that ever existed. Also, they might not even need to fight. He might surrender willingly. Let Survey bat her eyelashes at him. Let's see how long he lasts.

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I mentioned Lethe as being able to sneak in, talking about the rest of the members here. Proto Aima is a good point though, doubt any biological stuff would work against....whatever she is.
Survey and Apeiron/Matrix/Fleet/anyone could probably build counters but on her own shes a Thinker with an unknown range. She could manipulate Nilbog I guess?
Im assuming Apeirons healing is part of his setup, since we have 0 idea how the hell any of that works. You could really just say anyone can use it to survive anything but thats not a really interesting discussion.
He has probably done some advanced poison filters though, implants maybe?

 

[Vers]

[X] Post
RandomBullshitGo says:

Or maybe Apeiron could build some sort of time stop nuke, take a page out of Bakuda's playbook, so to speak

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Something like that would definitely neutralize him as a threat.
But the result isn't really something anyone would want to see. We want that shit gone for good. Obliterated and wiped off the face of the Earth. Not preserved in it's horrifying glory for all eternity.

Apeiron has shown he rlly rlly loves massive attacks so he could probably whip up a super nuke within a minute and leave it a crater.

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This could work, depending on how SUPER his nuke is. Don't forget about Nilbog's nuke-resistant super plague or whatever.
But if anyone can out-nuke a nuke-resistant plague, it'd be Apeiron.
A lot of people would be shitting their pants if he ever launched a WMD of that scale though...

I guess Lethe could sneak in and kill him directly.

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Again, this could work. If she can sneak in and shank Nilbog (she definitely can if you ask me), we can wait a few years and wait for his monstrosities to expire.
But this has been a possibility even before Lethe debuted(?) so Nilbog might have something ready, just in case..

If all else fails, throw Proto Aima at Nilbog

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This might be the best counter in my opinion. With Apeiron's support she should be pretty well-guarded from ranged attacks, and we know how nasty her Striker power is.
Even if Nilbog can bootleg some non organic trap and capture our favorite murder-mink, he can't use his power on her without getting close to her, which is a terrible idea. And of course even if she gets captured, there's the rest of CF, sooo... yeah he's gonna be fucked anyways.

I dunno bout fleet, but Matrix? Yes!

It's mildly surprising that we live on Earth-Bet and still haven't seen a giant robot level a town. And hey, this is wholesale destruction we can actually look forward to!
Hurray for giant robots!

Let Survey bat her eyelashes at him. Let's see how long he lasts

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I take back what I said about PA. This might be the perfect counter!
Just imagine, Survey just strolls in to town, dazzles the monsters into non-functionality, blows a kiss at Nilbog and the scary bio-tinker dies via bliss-overload!

 

[snrbryjm]

[X] Post
dundunduuunnnnn:
Think we're all forgetting a angle for Apeiron to take: if he can rework other tinkertech and improve it, could he hypothetically just...steal the town/the creatures? Even if he had to do it on individuals, he could get that done in like half an hour at max if he hasnt improved (hes improved) and boom town of recently liberated monsters. Wetwork is definitely in that guys skillset at this point

 

[Mojave Courier]

[X] Post
MojaveCourier says:

Think we're all forgetting a angle for Apeiron to take: if he can rework other tinkertech and improve it, could he hypothetically just...steal the town/the creatures? Even if he had to do it on individuals, he could get that done in like half an hour at max if he hasnt improved (hes improved) and boom town of recently liberated monsters. Wetwork is definitely in that guys skillset at this point

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Ah yes. That is definitely what the world needs. Apeiron-style biotinker monstrosities. I didn't need to sleep tonight.

 

[Brainstorm813]

[X] POST
Wiseass:

[X] Post
MojaveCourier says:

Ah yes. That is definitely what the world needs. Apeiron-style biotinker monstrosities. I didn't need to sleep tonight.

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Let me do you one better. How about The Matrix style biotinker monstrosities? With Apeiron-tier weapon implants.

 

[Vers]

[X] Post
RandomBullshitGo says:

Apeiron-style biotinker monstrosities

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And now I'm starting to regret saying we should get back to discussing hypothetical nightmare scenarios...
Hindsight is 20/20
Farewell my sanity, may your valiant but ultimately futile struggle against the reality of Earth-Bet never be forgotten.

How about The Matrix style biotinker monstrosities? With Apeiron-tier weapon implants.

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How about no? Let's not ruin giant mechs for me with this blasphemy.

 

[snrbryjm]

[X] Post
FINAL_COUTDOWN:

Let me do you one better. How about The Matrix style biotinker monstrosities? With Apeiron-tier weapon implants.

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can the Matrix do wetwork, or tinkering in general? thought the mech was just a Breaker or similar, or if a tinker a robotics one.
though, that is how you get another endbringer. leviathan sized meatmonsters made by some of the apparently most powerful tinkers on the planet....yeah i hate to say it but Nilbog is probably the better alternative

 

[Mojave Courier]

[X] Post
MojaveCourier says:
Yeah. I'm going to sleep before my mind gets more ideas for nightmares. Have fun discussing whatever hellish monstrosities Apeiron can make. I'll see it all tomorrow.

 

[Vers]

[X] Post
RandomBullshitGo says:

I'll see it all tomorrow.

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I really really hope that's just a typo and you meant to say "I'll see you all tomorrow."

[ @snrbryjm how many PHO handles do you have lol?]