Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle]

[Bel]

On Cradle, getting to the power level required to be a precog makes everyone obey you regardless, even if they know you're spouting bullshit.


Ooh, I hope so. We didn't get to see much fate manipulation in canon. Just Judge stuff and Emriss's "cut, snipped away, almost...pruned", iirc.

Click to shrink...

We actually did see some fate manipulation in the last two book…it was Lindon hiding them while they

Spoiler

robbed the Monarchs blind

 

[Blaflaix]

On Cradle, getting to the power level required to be a precog makes everyone obey you regardless, even if they know you're spouting bullshit.

Click to shrink...

"I foresee that mountain will be destroyed by a mysterious force."

"That seems unlikely."

🤜*Crunch* 🤛
"There, it's destroyed."

"Ah yes, that must be one of those 'self fulfilling prophecies' I've heard so much about."

 

[BlackMangoAde]

We actually did see some fate manipulation in the last two book…it was Lindon hiding them while they

Spoiler

robbed the Monarchs blind

Click to shrink...

Which should be the natural direction of the shadow icon, yes.

Even with such an absurd number of distinct viewpoints, I had no difficulty processing the information. That ability was something I ought to study further now that I was a Sage. If I still had some lingering connection to my Passenger, I wanted to know the exact nature of it.

Click to shrink...

Theoretically, the source of parahuman power is a portal in the brain, which sages should be able to detect. I assume the portal is small enough to be difficult to detect.

 

[Lexical]

I don't think it was just the power restrictions but a question of authority. Lindon and Eithan had some limited authority over the Labyrinth which I think made their journey much quicker and easier than Shen's was. The Labyrinth can rearrange itself spatially so there is a big difference between it helping you or hindering you.

Click to shrink...

I don't know how much of it is that. Shen had the hand of Subject One he stole from Tiberian, just the same as Lindon did, and later had the direct support of Subject One up until his death.

I liked Taylor's comment that she doesn't plan to just massacre everyone, no matter what Malice was expecting. To Taylor, fear and pain have always been means of reducing the amount of real harm she has to inflict. An enemy who is writhing on the ground from capsaicin-laced wasp stings is an enemy she doesn't have to shoot or beat into unconsciousness, and the same goes for the enemy who saw their comrade writhing on the ground and ran for the hills. Her newfound powers don't change that philosophy, they just make it more effective.

I look forward to seeing how Taylor handles this return to intimidating form.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the main difference between Taylor and Malice I suppose is that she is willing to fight unfavorable matchups (e.g. Mannequin) in order to protect innocents, and when a precog told her that it was the best option, Taylor turned herself in and divested herself of most of her authority.

On another note, Eithan holding back in this fight just didn't sit right or well with me. It seems like something he might have done in books 2-4 or so, but not at this point in the timeline. I can't remember a time in later books where he held back in a genuinely life or death situation apart from refusing his icons against Shen, which he did for personal reasons. Early books Eithan is more of a manipulative puppet master who forces Lindon into danger to watch him sink or swim. Later books Eithan is a genuine fellow traveler who enjoys fighting alongside Lindon, and growing alongside him too. I can't picture him futzing around a fight he can win easily while Yerin is heavily injured and Lindon is frantically evading Sophara.

It strikes me as dangerously irresponsible, given that it's only been a year since Lindon lost an arm due to Eithan's overestimation of his own ability to control the circumstances surrounding a duel and handle Naru Gwei and Jai Daishou, an incident which Eithan felt guilty for and apologized for profusely.

Then again, it's probably more likely that he actually was prevented from helping. As Gwei demonstrated, it's possible for foes of equal advancement to at least meaningfully delay Eithan. He's powerful and experienced, but that only counts for so much. I have no difficulty believing that a centuries old archlord could keep him sufficiently occupied to stop him from helping.

 

[EnlightenedFool]

"Your connection to it is far weaker than to the Shadow Icon, but it does exist. It will take you years of work to fully manifest it even after advancing to Archlord

Click to shrink...

Malice is going to eat those words. I give Taylor 3 months max until she has the Oracle Icon, one way or another. Maybe when she reconnects with QA. She seems like someone that is Oracle-ly. It would also explain why Malice would think it would take Taylor years. Direct action by the shards can't be precoged. Even Scion had problems Pathing triggers.

Maybe some insight related to Taylors time as Khepri. She was essentially omniscient for about an hour. Seeing everything in several hundred worlds with senses beyond human understanding seems like the sort of thing that might be helpful for reaching the Icon. But then again every time a new power-up gets foreshadowed in story my first thought is how it could relate to her time as Khepri and it hasn't happened yet. I just figured that time she was God might have left some traces on her soul.


P.S. I just thought of this, but Taylor has been mirroring Malice a lot, right? Malices big party trick is turning into a crystal Titan. I don't understand how Heralds work, but they're the physically focused path and you achieve it by fusing with something? Someone in the comments said that QA might be valid for that.

What happens when a parahuman fuses with their shard? I figure Taylor might get a Titan form continuing the theme of being Malice, but better.

Taylor: Not only am I a better person than you, a better leader than you, a better mother to your daughter then you, I'm also a better Kaiju than you.

 

[Denty]

On another note, Eithan holding back in this fight just didn't sit right or well with me. It seems like something he might have done in books 2-4 or so, but not at this point in the timeline. I can't remember a time in later books where he held back in a genuinely life or death situation apart from refusing his icons against Shen, which he did for personal reasons. Early books Eithan is more of a manipulative puppet master who forces Lindon into danger to watch him sink or swim. Later books Eithan is a genuine fellow traveler who enjoys fighting alongside Lindon, and growing alongside him too. I can't picture him futzing around a fight he can win easily while Yerin is heavily injured and Lindon is frantically evading Sophara.

It strikes me as dangerously irresponsible, given that it's only been a year since Lindon lost an arm due to Eithan's overestimation of his own ability to control the circumstances surrounding a duel and handle Naru Gwei and Jai Daishou, an incident which Eithan felt guilty for and apologized for profusely.

Then again, it's probably more likely that he actually was prevented from helping. As Gwei demonstrated, it's possible for foes of equal advancement to at least meaningfully delay Eithan. He's powerful and experienced, but that only counts for so much. I have no difficulty believing that a centuries old archlord could keep him sufficiently occupied to stop him from helping.

Click to shrink...

I think it is because Eithan hasn't been forced yet in an actual dangerous or very unfavorable position in the battle. Archlord vs Archlord there really isn't anyone in Cradle that can match Eithan in pure skill and capability and would be able to hold himself down even against a Sage. I think it is more in the "Eithan hasn't shown the fulld epths of his abilities" kind of comment from Taylor. Had there been actual true ddanger, which he would easily sense with his bloodline ability, Eithan would be going out in a bigger show especially at this point in time

I think this is just another butterfly from the Uncrowned tournament, as that is where Eithan really let himself loose to show everyone wha he is actually capable of when he solo'ed Miara in 9 seconds. After that Eithan was more willing to go all out showing everything he has. Basically, raise more flags on the Eithan relationship diagram to make him go all out for you

 

[Innman7]

Great chapter as always.

I think this will be the last tool in Taylor's kit for at least a while now. It's tempting to imagine her with more and more tools, but her Devouring Swarm and Weave of Fate coming out back-to-back already give her two Sage-level techniques.

Lindon and Yerin appear once this chapter. They've started getting tangential to the plot. It's an artifact of the story the author wants to tell, so no real opinion there.

Tidewalker is going to be a fun arc. I think Taylor will need to tap Mercy (and Eithan/Lindon/Yerin, though that's mostly Doylist reasoning), and it will allow a different sort of conflict, extended from the short scenes we've gotten so far, about how Taylor has moderated her approaches. One aspect that's going to be different is how to deal with the sect's rank-and-file. It's not a gang the same way as Brockton Bay had, and while strict decapitation of the senior leadership will work, there isn't an overarching system to stabilize into afterwards (unless you count being absorbed into the Akura empire). It occurs to me that this sect may very well end up becoming Taylor's. A Sage is more than qualified to govern and protect a faction.

Spoiler: Finally, regarding the alluded to Cradle spoiler

I think, given all the events around the PRT and Gold Morning, it will go over okay with Taylor. She'll be disappointed but not altogether surprised by it.

All-in-all, we readers are spoiled for choice. I'm looking forward to the next chapter and can't wait to see more.

 

[Zoneco]

I don't know how much of it is that. Shen had the hand of Subject One he stole from Tiberian, just the same as Lindon did, and later had the direct support of Subject One up until his death.

Yeah, the main difference between Taylor and Malice I suppose is that she is willing to fight unfavorable matchups (e.g. Mannequin) in order to protect innocents, and when a precog told her that it was the best option, Taylor turned herself in and divested herself of most of her authority.

On another note, Eithan holding back in this fight just didn't sit right or well with me. It seems like something he might have done in books 2-4 or so, but not at this point in the timeline. I can't remember a time in later books where he held back in a genuinely life or death situation apart from refusing his icons against Shen, which he did for personal reasons. Early books Eithan is more of a manipulative puppet master who forces Lindon into danger to watch him sink or swim. Later books Eithan is a genuine fellow traveler who enjoys fighting alongside Lindon, and growing alongside him too. I can't picture him futzing around a fight he can win easily while Yerin is heavily injured and Lindon is frantically evading Sophara.

It strikes me as dangerously irresponsible, given that it's only been a year since Lindon lost an arm due to Eithan's overestimation of his own ability to control the circumstances surrounding a duel and handle Naru Gwei and Jai Daishou, an incident which Eithan felt guilty for and apologized for profusely.

Then again, it's probably more likely that he actually was prevented from helping. As Gwei demonstrated, it's possible for foes of equal advancement to at least meaningfully delay Eithan. He's powerful and experienced, but that only counts for so much. I have no difficulty believing that a centuries old archlord could keep him sufficiently occupied to stop him from helping.

Click to shrink...

Eithan and the others weren't in serious danger though. Malice, who is highly skilled in reading fate, had foreseen a likely victory for them and Eithan has some abilities of his own which would have allowed him to do some of the same, likely even more so than he was capable of at Underlord. Eithan showed his power as an Archlord as soon as it was necessary to do so and likely was prepared to reveal more if it became necessary, which it did not.

Malice is going to eat those words. I give Taylor 3 months max until she has the Oracle Icon, one way or another. Maybe when she reconnects with QA. She seems like someone that is Oracle-ly. It would also explain why Malice would think it would take Taylor years. Direct action by the shards can't be precoged. Even Scion had problems Pathing triggers.

Maybe some insight related to Taylors time as Khepri. She was essentially omniscient for about an hour. Seeing everything in several hundred worlds with senses beyond human understanding seems like the sort of thing that might be helpful for reaching the Icon. But then again every time a new power-up gets foreshadowed in story my first thought is how it could relate to her time as Khepri and it hasn't happened yet. I just figured that time she was God might have left some traces on her soul.


P.S. I just thought of this, but Taylor has been mirroring Malice a lot, right? Malices big party trick is turning into a crystal Titan. I don't understand how Heralds work, but they're the physically focused path and you achieve it by fusing with something? Someone in the comments said that QA might be valid for that.

What happens when a parahuman fuses with their shard? I figure Taylor might get a Titan form continuing the theme of being Malice, but better.

Taylor: Not only am I a better person than you, a better leader than you, a better mother to your daughter then you, I'm also a better Kaiju than you.

Click to shrink...

While Taylor probably will manifest the Oracle icon before the end of the story it will definitely not be that fast, icons aren't like popcorn, and Taylor only has a small connection to the Oracle icon at the moment. With the help of Eithan, Emriss, and Claudia it will probably come sooner than later but even just one icon is hard enough.
Also while it would be cool for Taylor to manifest a giant titan form that just is not at all Taylor's style. And merging with QA probably isn't possible anyways. To reach Herald you typically merge with your remnant and QA isn't likely to be close enough to Taylor's remnant for that to work. Further, since Taylor is a Sage now, advancing to Herald would make her a Monarch which probably wont happen until the climactic final battle or thereabouts.

 

[Denty]

And merging with QA probably isn't possible anyways. To reach Herald you typically merge with your remnant and QA isn't likely to be close enough to Taylor's remnant for that to work.

Click to shrink...

I can actually see this happen if the Shard in question are like Fragile One which grew alongside their very first host unlike QA which is one of the oldest and ancient Shards of an Entity. There is too much "weight" on that Shard and if they try what would result would look more like a Titan which is a very wrong fusion that is direct to the Shard side instead of a balance

Per Ward we already know that Shard keep extremely detained copies of their hosts that can manifest as "ghosts" in the Firnament, so the "spirit copy" coping from QA can work

Still though, Taylor beong able to face her Remnant and all that she has been through like what Ziel did can have a good scene of catharsis

 

[Zoolimar]

Taylor not even merging but just talking to QA should be the kind of thing that makes Abidan Judges scream in terror like little girls. Currently the only thing that is keeping Entities and Abidan apart is the fact that their methods of operation are too alien to each other. Making them both confined to their own respective power systems and world stacks. And Shards already have a leg up on that considering that Taylor got dropped on Cradle.

QA getting Authority on top of her current abilities? That's the stuff of nightmares if she doesn't have a minder. Doubly so because she would be able to move in directions Abidan is incapable not only of perceiving but even conceptualizing. Don't forget that at the end of Worm the only thing that stopped QA from becoming Overlord of all the iterations of the planet Earth is her sentimental attachment to Taylor.

 

[p235711131719]

Taylor not even merging but just talking to QA should be the kind of thing that makes Abidan Judges scream in terror like little girls. Currently the only thing that is keeping Entities and Abidan apart is the fact that their methods of operation are too alien to each other. Making them both confined to their own respective power systems and world stacks. And Shards already have a leg up on that considering that Taylor got dropped on Cradle.

QA getting Authority on top of her current abilities? That's the stuff of nightmares if she doesn't have a minder. Doubly so because she would be able to move in directions Abidan is incapable not only of perceiving but even conceptualizing. Don't forget that at the end of Worm the only thing that stopped QA from becoming Overlord of all the iterations of the planet Earth is her sentimental attachment to Taylor.

Click to shrink...

Not really. The judges definitely sound more powerful than the entities. Maybe they are peers. But scream in terror like little girls is not a thing a Judge would do. Maybe more junior members of the Abidan but not Suriel, Ozriel or the others who are at least peers with Scion. The Abidan are very used to dealing with a huge variety of power systems. Each world has their own even if they Way is one that kind of transends them and can be used by the more powerful on multiple worlds.

Malice is going to eat those words. I give Taylor 3 months max until she has the Oracle Icon, one way or another. Maybe when she reconnects with QA. She seems like someone that is Oracle-ly. It would also explain why Malice would think it would take Taylor years. Direct action by the shards can't be precoged. Even Scion had problems Pathing triggers.

Maybe some insight related to Taylors time as Khepri. She was essentially omniscient for about an hour. Seeing everything in several hundred worlds with senses beyond human understanding seems like the sort of thing that might be helpful for reaching the Icon. But then again every time a new power-up gets foreshadowed in story my first thought is how it could relate to her time as Khepri and it hasn't happened yet. I just figured that time she was God might have left some traces on her soul.


P.S. I just thought of this, but Taylor has been mirroring Malice a lot, right? Malices big party trick is turning into a crystal Titan. I don't understand how Heralds work, but they're the physically focused path and you achieve it by fusing with something? Someone in the comments said that QA might be valid for that.

Click to shrink...

We know other Shards have trouble precogging other Shards like that but there is no reason that extends to other methods of precogging.

I also think the merging with QA instead of her remnant to become Herald/Monarch just isn't going to happen. It seems to have come about because of Yerin merging with her blood shadow. But her blood shadow used the same energy system and for years was essentially purposefully fed Yerin's life madra, life aura and soul fire. If QA had been connected the past few years and Taylor was doing the same then maybe but as it stands it is definitely not.

 

[ArcanaVitae]

I'd known for months I was touching a fragment of the Shadow Icon; my Devouring Swarm technique wouldn't have functioned without it. Charity had predicted I'd manifest the full Icon almost immediately on advancing to Archlord. No one had ever mentioned the possibility of fully manifesting the Icon before then, but there couldn't be any doubt that that was exactly what I'd done. Did that make me a Sage? I wasn't sure.

Click to shrink...

Taylor's confusion does make sense since something like her hasn't happened in a while.

I shook my head. The fight wasn't over yet. I began flying in the direction of Eithan's duel with the blue dragon, taking my swarm with me. But I'd only been flying for a few seconds when Eithan sent half a dozen brilliant white stars punching through the dragon's core. It plummeted, a broken remnant attempting to rise from its body before dissipating into essence. I stopped and stared. Was it a coincidence, or had Eithan still been holding back this entire time? The first option seemed more likely, but I strongly suspected it was the second that was correct.

Click to shrink...

Taylor has good instincts and knows that Eithan is bullshit

I noticed that I could now actually perceive his bloodline senses, like countless gossamer strands extending outwards from him. I could have blocked them, but instead I allowed them to pass through my swarm. "Can you still fight?" I asked him.

Click to shrink...

Taylor being able to sense Eithan's probes is a good thing to know about.

The sandstorm began dissipating, devoured by my swarm, and the phantasms assaulting Xorrus suddenly lasted for more than a heartbeat. Xorrus let out an annoyed growl, and the full will of a Herald slammed against me. It felt like I'd been pushing a cart up a hill only to have an elephant suddenly land in it, and my technique was nearly ripped to shreds. Then it was reinforced by another, more powerful will, and my swarm pressed in further.

Behind us, the boundary dissolved, space beginning to untwist itself as Charity stopped maintaining it. She was no longer trying to merely keep Xorrus trapped. Xorrus realized something had changed, and she lashed out violently with an explosion of golden sand. The power in the technique was enough to level a small city. I opposed it with my swarm. Alone, it would have been instantly annihilated, but I wasn't alone.

As my swarm spiraled in, Charity somehow wove her own madra into it, reinforcing it with her will. I poured in almost of all of my remaining soulfire, and it devoured Xorrus's technique and kept going. Although Charity lacked the appropriate authority to create a technique like the Devouring Swarm, she could still oppose Xorrus's will on my behalf. Even together that might not have been enough, but Eithan was here too, and his will was enough to tip the scales.

Click to shrink...

Charity and Taylor teaming up to beat Xorrus is really cool. Eithan helped too I guess.

The technique snapped into place, and it was drastically more lethal than I could have ever made it on my own. The heart of the Devouring Swarm technique was creating a region where illusions became real. Normally that meant my swarm, but right now Xorrus was surrounded by Charity's legion of phantoms and nightmares. Suddenly, their swords and claws and teeth were capable of inflicting real wounds. They carved into Xorrus with fervor.

But if Archlords were incredibly tough, Heralds were on another level. Instead of blood, golden sand came pouring out of Xorrus's wounds. Her body was shredded but didn't lose cohesion, forming into a cloud of sand shaped vaguely like a dragon. My swarm devoured the sand, but not quickly enough. The last of my swarm spiraled in, and although Xorrus's form had been significantly reduced, she wasn't dead yet. Golden sand began forming back into golden scales.

Then a blue-white star speared through Xorrus, and the scales were blown back into sand. More followed, disrupting Xorrus's every attempt to reform her body. Charity's techniques continued to attack, no longer inflicting physical damage, but the spiritual and mental components were now more important. The cloud of sand writhed and twisted, elongating into a new shape, longer and more serpentine than before and lacking wings. When it solidified, its features were distorted like melted wax.

Xorrus's remnant let out a roar which echoed strangely. Its power was only slightly less than her original strength, still significantly greater than an Archlord. My swarm was gone, and I was nearly out of both madra and soulfire; there was little I could do to help. But as solid as the Herald-level remnant looked, it was still a spirit, which meant Charity and Eithan's techniques would be much more effective against it. As long as they hadn't completely exhausted themselves, they should be able to-

Click to shrink...

Holy shit they murked Xorrus really damn easily.

"Hello, Xorrus," said Malice, her voice booming over the ruined countryside. "You aren't looking so well. Did you perhaps encounter a touch more trouble than you expected?" The spirit hissed and cringed away as much as it could. Malice tilted her head to the side curiously. "A pity. I'd hoped there would be more of you left in there. No matter. We'll take good care of you regardless."

Click to shrink...

Xorrus is going to be but to use Herald level remants are really useful.

With one last bow, Eithan turned and flew off. Malice turned to Charity. "You did well," she said. "Your father is no doubt seething with jealousy up in the heavens at this very moment."

Click to shrink...

Fury is so damn jealous.

"Of course," agreed Charity. She hesitated for a moment, clearly understand that she was being dismissed, then turned back to me. "I'll see you soon, Taylor. This is a time of great change for the clan. There's plenty of work to be done." She smiled briefly. "Unlike my father, I'm expecting you to pull your weight."

I laughed once. "Now I see the real reason why you took a disciple. You just wanted someone to dump your paperwork on."

"Alas, my scheme has been discovered," deadpanned Charity, a twinkle of amusement in her eye. She turned back to Malice. "By your leave, Grandmother." Malice nodded, and Charity vanished into shadow.

Click to shrink...

Charity must be so happy right now, Taylor is a Sage which is great but also she has less paperwork to do now.

And then she finally turned to me, still smiling as she considered me. "You know, I always found myself slightly disappointed that none of my children ever manifested my first Icon," she said eventually. "Mercy's progress towards Herald is quite satisfactory, but even so, I regretted that I'd never have the chance to pass certain things on. Thank you, Taylor Hebert, for giving me that chance. Adopted or not, you have become a true credit to our family."

Click to shrink...

Malice likely does mean this but yeah she's turning on full manipulator mode now.

"Thank you," I said, nodding. I found myself pleased that she'd remembered to use my birth name, even if it was nothing but a tactic. "How is Mercy?"

Click to shrink...

Taylor knows what is up with Malice being nicer.

"The likeliest outcome. There was a smaller chance that the Arelius girl might have manifested the Sword Icon instead, and a very small chance that you both might have advanced. Or you might have triumphed without either of you advancing. Or you might have been defeated." I kept my expression carefully neutral, but Malice still guessed my thoughts. "Do you disapprove? I admit there was risk. A small risk to my daughter, given that she can escape at the speed of thought. A larger risk to the rest of you. If I had sensed that Charity was in true danger, I would have intervened, even at the cost of allowing Shen to rampage through our lands. But even I can't guarantee the outcome of a battle when another Monarch is involved. Tell me, would you have done differently, if you'd known?"

Click to shrink...

Yeah honestly what I expected her reasoning to be.

I considered my response carefully. "Probably not," I said eventually. "But I would have liked to have known regardless, and I think Mercy would feel the same."

Click to shrink...

Taylor was a leader so she gets it.

"You, specifically, could not know," said Malice. "An Icon is not something which can be forced. If you had known the course of the battle relied on you advancing, you would have found it dramatically more difficult. And my daughter would not have been able to keep the secret. It's the same reason why I've kept my distance until now. I didn't want my understanding of the Shadow Icon to contaminate yours."

Click to shrink...

That is a good point.

I nodded slowly. It was a reasonable enough explanation and probably the truth, but I suspected she wouldn't have warned us even if that hadn't been the case. It was one thing to use myself as bait, and even if I hated to let Mercy put herself in danger, I knew she could take care of herself. But using a hundred thousand helpless civilians as bait was another matter entirely, and I didn't miss the fact that Malice hadn't even mentioned them. I kept my thoughts to myself, instead asking, "And that's no longer a danger now that I've fully manifested the Icon?"

Click to shrink...

Taylor is right about the civilian thing and Malice not eve mentioning it.

"No," agreed Malice. "Once a connection to an Icon has been formed, it cannot be broken except by entirely crippling the spirit. Of course, your understanding of the Shadow Icon is still different than mine. Sages can never simply copy each other's techniques. But that doesn't mean there's nothing you can learn from me. I didn't ask if you would have done things differently just from curiosity. It's something you're going to need to consider, because the first thing I want to teach you is to see the future."

Click to shrink...

Taylor being able to learn from the best Shadow user on Cradle will be invaluable. Also holy shit she's going to get so much scarier once she gets precog stuff going.

Regardless of my thoughts on Malice, that seized my full attention. Of all the exotic powers I'd seen over my life, precogs were likely the single most dangerous. Precogs had also had a massive impact on my own life. I hadn't completely left behind the part of myself that craved control. I wanted that power. "I'm ready."

Click to shrink...

Taylor knows that precogs are all kinds of bullshit. I also have a feeling the craving control thing will have an impact on something in the future either Icons or Revelations.

Understanding slowly came to me in a form I was familiar with: These were the shadows on the cave wall in Plato's allegory. The Shadow Icon didn't permit the direct observation of events, but even the future cast a shadow. I searched for the light which was casting the shadow and caught a fleeting glimpse of textured blue before a sharp spike of pain in my head made me desist. "Careful, now," chided Malice. "Learn to crawl before you try to sprint."

Click to shrink...

That makes a lot of sense for how Shadow would be used to read Fate. Taylor has a lot of talent for Fate reading.

The other Underlords immediately threw themselves into kowtows. "All hail the Shadow Sage!" shouted one. Some of the refugees copied them, while others simply looked confused.

Click to shrink...

Taylor is going to get annoyed with that.

She nodded, then grinned and bowed. "Yes, honored Sage."

"Don't do that."

"Of course not, honored Sage."

"Do you want to find spiders in your bed tonight?"

"No, honored Sage."

"There are going to be spiders in your bed tonight."

"How dreadful, honored Sage."

Click to shrink...

I'm happy Taylor has Grace.

I breathed out, and a cloud of violet madra poured out of my skin. It condensed into tens of thousands of identical scarabs which shot off in all directions, slowly expanding my range. After a few minutes, I spotted Eithan, Yerin, and Lindon returning to the camp on clouds. I gathered they'd taken time to loot the bodies, which I honestly should have expected. Although I didn't usually bother with that, three Archlords would probably have enough valuables to interest even a Sage. I'd collect my share when I checked in with them, but I was going to take some time to myself first, before I was subjected to more congratulations.

Click to shrink...

Eithan, Terin and Lindon are such loot goblins and I love it. Good to see Taylor got her cut of the plunder as well.

Overlords required very little sleep, but I was still mentally drained from using my authority so heavily. I let myself focus on nothing in particular for a while, enjoying the sounds of rustling leaves and buzzing insects while I slowly recovered my spirit, occasionally Forging another cloud of scarabs. As expected, I needed close to a million to thoroughly blanket my new range. Even with such an absurd number of distinct viewpoints, I had no difficulty processing the information. That ability was something I ought to study further now that I was a Sage. If I still had some lingering connection to my Passenger, I wanted to know the exact nature of it.

Click to shrink...

Taylor adjusting to her increased range and power is something that will take a bit of time. Her looking into her connection with QA is a good thing.

I considered the question of how Fate felt to me. It was a subject I was more familiar with that most. Cut ties. I'm sorry. Four words which had radically altered the direction of my life, and ultimately of the entire world. In those days, fate had felt like a sword hanging over my head, a looming threat that I couldn't escape from no matter how hard I'd tried. I'd pushed myself and my team to deal with the feelings, tried to control the things I could, but it had never been enough. I'd never really stopped feeling trapped.

Click to shrink...

Taylor understands Fate on a deeper and more intimate level than most people.

Trapped… Or perhaps tangled. I nodded to myself. That fit well enough. I Forged a ring of madra a few feet across which hung in the air in front of me. My Path was named for my Ruler technique, but my Forger technique had come first. I used my swarm to blind my opponents, but it was my scarabs which allowed me to see. That was the more appropriate foundation for this technique. I focused my will and immersed myself in the Shadow Icon, then began Forging; not a beetle this time, but a spider.

Click to shrink...

Taylor has a lot of good symbology going on with Fate.

"Well, aren't you quite the overachiever?" asked Malice, stepping out from the shadows behind me. I didn't startle, having sensed her coming a moment before she'd arrived. "I was expecting to visit you again in a few days, not a few hours. Are you ready to tell me the future?"

Click to shrink...

Malice is impressed which is a double edged sword.

I did have a guess. Where Malice's technique had been nothing but shadows, mine had been… more. Not quite a true image of the future, but I felt as though it could potentially become that in time. "It's the Oracle Icon, isn't it?"

"Just the lightest touch of it," agreed Malice. "Your connection to it is far weaker than to the Shadow Icon, but it does exist. It will take you years of work to fully manifest it even after advancing to Archlord, but in the meantime, your ability to read Fate will be slightly superior to what the Shadow Icon alone would grant. As I said, quite the overachiever."

Click to shrink...

Not really surprised since the Oracle Icon was talked about as an option, but I have a feeling she'll get it sooner than Malice thinks she will. But even then the boost is nice to have.

"Now, I was rather hoping you could help me deal with my Tidewalker infestation," replied Malice, still smiling. "You understand the importance of image and reputation, I think. For all my eldest son's flaws, his reputation for violence was nearly as useful as his actual capacity for it. If you want to take his place, you'll need to cultivate a similarly fearsome reputation." Her smile turned cruel. "I want you to discourage anyone else who might be tempted to serve as Shen's tool. Make an example of them."

Click to shrink...

Off to the killing fields with you Taylor. She kinda goes need to replace the whole Fury left.

"I understand," I said after a moment. That was going to be an unpleasant bit of work, but they were choosing to attack us. I couldn't muster up that much sympathy. "I'll leave in a day or two, once things are settled here. I'd like to take the chance to see a bit more of the continent. There should be plenty of time to reach the northern coast before the attack. I assume Charity will deal with their Herald?"

"She will. I've already instructed the Blackflame Empire to mobilize their forces. If you believe you'll need additional reinforcements, I'm sure Mercy will be eager to help." The implication wasn't lost on me: If I wanted to spare Mercy from having to participate in a massacre, I'd better be able to handle it myself. Not that I intended to carry out a full massacre regardless of what Malice might want, but I was certainly going to have to kill some people to get the point across.

Click to shrink...

I'm happy that Taylor isn't going to follow Malice's orders and wants to the letter. Even if she's willing to do the dirty work.

I hadn't, but the choice seemed obvious now that I considered it. "The Weave of Fate," I said.

Click to shrink...

That's a really damn good name.

Delicious. I love me some well-written power development/magical engineering. And this was very well done indeed, following logically from Taylor's previous experiences and knowledge.

The name of Weaver takes a whole new meaning in this context .

Click to shrink...

Her past name/title of Weaver is feeling a lot more appropriate now.

I was a little bit confused how she developed her precog technique at first because forging the threads to see time didn't seem to have much to do with shadows, but the Oracle Icon doing more of the heavy lifting makes more sense. If she didn't have that I imagine Taylor might have had to come up with a completely different thought exercise, if not borrow back from Malice and try to perceive the threads shadows.

At first I was actually expecting Taylor to occlude the future with some temporal swarm in trying to get a better view of the possibilities, accidentallying an anti-precog scrambling technique. Failing in the best way.



Honestly this sounds like a technique which might be even better at manipulating fate. Pull on the threads of possibilities, cutting off favourable futures until the enemy is tangled in just the one you want.

Get absolutely fucked Coil.

Click to shrink...

The Shadow Icon seems to be used to read Fate by looking at Fate's shadow. Taylor was so damn good at it due to her connection to the Oracle Icon and her way of using the Shadow Icon likely being better at Fate stuff than most people with Shadow Icons.

Taylor has always been good at information control so her figuring out a way to view Fate and do anti-precog stuff is pretty in character for her skillset wise.

Taylor being a better precog than Coil is pretty hilarious though.

Shadow Icon is obviously pretty useful for hiding your own fate shenanigans from others. Time to play precog chess.

Click to shrink...

Taylor is looking like a really nice recruit for several Abidan branches.

Shadow and Oracle are great in that they are somewhat connected opposites which gives the Sage who holds them a lot of breadth of choices in how they choose to leverage their authority.

Click to shrink...

They're going to be great boosts for Taylor and given Taylor's muchkining skills she's going to abuse the shit out of them.

"If I still had some lingering connection to my Passenger, I wanted to know the exact nature of it." is this a hint about her becoming a Herald in the future? Merging with QA just like Yerin does with her blood shadow in canon? If so, very much looking forward to it If not, I'll still be looking forward to QA's possible return.

Click to shrink...

QA itself is probably too different from Taylor.

Although… there should be a copy of Taylor within QA?

Click to shrink...

Yeah the Shard Ghost reminds me a little of Remnants and she's likely connected enough to QA to pull it off after Golden Morning.

A Sage who becomes a Herald (and conversely, a Herald who becomes a Sage) is what is colloquially known as a "Monarch".



But yes that would be an interesting way for Taylor to side step the traditional Heralding process.

Click to shrink...

That would be a really badass way to become a Monarch as well as out of context for most people.

Well that was satisfying. Very well done, Taylor! Stood up to Xorrus, got a new mission, and promptly made a connection to a second icon as well. An overachiever indeed.

I particularly enjoyed the interactions with Grace and Malice here. Taylor having to deal with overly respectful titles is always funny (and to Grace the subsequent magical bed-spiders were absolutely worth it), and I never stop appreciating how Taylor and Malice can talk to each other as near-equals. It's a mutually respectful candor that suits them well, and that I think Malice finds refreshing.

I liked Taylor's comment that she doesn't plan to just massacre everyone, no matter what Malice was expecting. To Taylor, fear and pain have always been means of reducing the amount of real harm she has to inflict. An enemy who is writhing on the ground from capsaicin-laced wasp stings is an enemy she doesn't have to shoot or beat into unconsciousness, and the same goes for the enemy who saw their comrade writhing on the ground and ran for the hills. Her newfound powers don't change that philosophy, they just make it more effective.

I look forward to seeing how Taylor handles this return to intimidating form.

Click to shrink...

Taylor did really damn well and both Malice and Charity are happy about that even if it's for different reasons.

I'm happy Taylor has Grace in her life. Taylor and Malice's relationship has definitely changed now that Taylor is a Sage, I do agree that Malice probably does like and respect Taylor.

Taylor not letting the increased power change her is something that I respect. But yeah doesn't change that even though Taylor is kinder she's still able to be a stone cold badass and ruthless when she needs to, it's just that she does it with good intentions and to reduce harm.

Malice is going to eat those words. I give Taylor 3 months max until she has the Oracle Icon, one way or another. Maybe when she reconnects with QA. She seems like someone that is Oracle-ly. It would also explain why Malice would think it would take Taylor years. Direct action by the shards can't be precoged. Even Scion had problems Pathing triggers.

Maybe some insight related to Taylors time as Khepri. She was essentially omniscient for about an hour. Seeing everything in several hundred worlds with senses beyond human understanding seems like the sort of thing that might be helpful for reaching the Icon. But then again every time a new power-up gets foreshadowed in story my first thought is how it could relate to her time as Khepri and it hasn't happened yet. I just figured that time she was God might have left some traces on her soul.


P.S. I just thought of this, but Taylor has been mirroring Malice a lot, right? Malices big party trick is turning into a crystal Titan. I don't understand how Heralds work, but they're the physically focused path and you achieve it by fusing with something? Someone in the comments said that QA might be valid for that.

What happens when a parahuman fuses with their shard? I figure Taylor might get a Titan form continuing the theme of being Malice, but better.

Taylor: Not only am I a better person than you, a better leader than you, a better mother to your daughter then you, I'm also a better Kaiju than you.

Click to shrink...

I agree that Taylor will get the Oracle Icon sooner than Malice expects, and yeah getting an exact read on when someone will get an Icon would be extremely difficult.

QA and her time as Khepri likely did have a huge influence on her connection to the Oracle Icon. But I would say it would also qualify her for a Rulership/Leadership/Control Icon, main reason she isn't as deeply connected to it as Oracle is because she's avoided leadership.

Taylor and Malice are pretty similar people, with Malice mirroring Weaver at her darker moments in my mind. Taylor could've ended up like Malice but Charity, Grace, Mercy and healing has made it so she won't walk that path.

I don't think that Taylor can completely merge with QA but she can likely merge with QA's connection with her/Shard Ghost.

 

[Stahor]

With Malice talking more like a peer, in my mind she sounds like Savathun.

For all my eldest son's flaws, his reputation for violence was nearly as useful as his actual capacity for it. If you want to take his place, you'll need to cultivate a similarly fearsome reputation.

Click to shrink...

Did Fury was Malice's personal legbreaker, or he was Akura's legbreaker?

 

[Zoolimar]

Not really. The judges definitely sound more powerful than the entities. Maybe they are peers. But scream in terror like little girls is not a thing a Judge would do. Maybe more junior members of the Abidan but not Suriel, Ozriel or the others who are at least peers with Scion. The Abidan are very used to dealing with a huge variety of power systems. Each world has their own even if they Way is one that kind of transends them and can be used by the more powerful on multiple worlds.

Click to shrink...

I don't think you are seeing the problem. Abidan operates solely on Human Way, their whole powers are tied to it. They can't see beyond it. There is the Human Way and Chaos.

Entities and Shards are not Human Way and have their own unique methods of moving between worlds that while achieve similar results to Abidan/Vroshyr do not in any way rely on Human Way or Authorities tied to it. Yes, on average Entity would be weaker than Abidan judges due to achieving some kind of Authority only through copious amounts of power refinement and backing it with ridiculous amounts of energy.

The real problem is what happens when on top of their existing capabilities a Shard also gets Authority.

Imagine that Shards/Entities and Abidan/Vroshyr ways are two different axis in a coordinate system. They intersect at zero (Earth Iterations). Whoever discovers the means of moving within the whole 2D space gains a qualitative advantage over the other that cannot be overcome through sheer power.

 

[p235711131719]

I don't think you are seeing the problem. Abidan operates solely on Human Way, their whole powers are tied to it. They can't see beyond it. There is the Human Way and Chaos.

Entities and Shards are not Human Way and have their own unique methods of moving between worlds that while achieve similar results to Abidan/Vroshyr do not in any way rely on Human Way or Authorities tied to it. Yes, on average Entity would be weaker than Abidan judges due to achieving some kind of Authority only through copious amounts of power refinement and backing it with ridiculous amounts of energy.

The real problem is what happens when on top of their existing capabilities a Shard also gets Authority.

Imagine that Shards/Entities and Abidan/Vroshyr ways are two different axis in a coordinate system. They intersect at zero (Earth Iterations). Whoever discovers the means of moving within the whole 2D space gains a qualitative advantage over the other that cannot be overcome through sheer power.

Click to shrink...

I am pretty sure Authority is linked to the Way. So basically you are saying what happens when the Shards learn to use the Way it seems to me. Which might be a problem in a thousand years but the Shards aren't great at learning things and the Way takes a while for most to learn.

And just because the Abidan primarily operate using the Way doesn't mean it is the only thing they do. There were a few times in the books when a Judge couldn't use the Way and had to use their own personal power and it was still incredibly impressive. Most of the higher up ones will learn the magic systems of multiple worlds.

So yeah it may be problem in the far future but it is not going to be an instant power up and the Abidan are still used to fighting people who use things other than the Way.

 

[Denty]

I don't think you are seeing the problem. Abidan operates solely on Human Way, their whole powers are tied to it. They can't see beyond it. There is the Human Way and Chaos.

Entities and Shards are not Human Way and have their own unique methods of moving between worlds that while achieve similar results to Abidan/Vroshyr do not in any way rely on Human Way or Authorities tied to it. Yes, on average Entity would be weaker than Abidan judges due to achieving some kind of Authority only through copious amounts of power refinement and backing it with ridiculous amounts of energy.

The real problem is what happens when on top of their existing capabilities a Shard also gets Authority.

Imagine that Shards/Entities and Abidan/Vroshyr ways are two different axis in a coordinate system. They intersect at zero (Earth Iterations). Whoever discovers the means of moving within the whole 2D space gains a qualitative advantage over the other that cannot be overcome through sheer power.

Click to shrink...

There has never been a difference in what the Way was. The Way is a literal embodiment of all the Concepts in the multiverse, just access to small fragment of it can let one create matter from nothing like what Lindon did. There is no such thing as the "Human" Way, the Way is the Way, the Vroshir also works with the Way just differently. Going outside the Way is going to pure nonexistence of all concepts itself

Everything that exists and follows those laws of physics and creation are beholden to whatever parameters the Way exists in their universe. The Entities were never capable of going beyond that, they have their own abilities and those abilities are tied to physical laws of physics (Wildbow even notes how conceptual manipulation are a good way to bypass them). We know that almost everything the Entities do are from studying different alien species civilizations but they all still work on the same multiverse

Iterations have literal different laws of physics in them for each one, the Aura and Sacred Arts in Cradle do not exist in every Iteration, it is not just a matter of them being parallel worlds. In an interlude in Wintersteel we even see an entire universe that is basically a flat plane that goes on forever

 

[Zoolimar]

I am pretty sure Authority is linked to the Way. So basically you are saying what happens when the Shards learn to use the Way it seems to me. Which might be a problem in a thousand years but the Shards aren't great at learning things and the Way takes a while for most to learn.

Click to shrink...

Shards aren't bad at learning they are bad at coming up with new ideas. So QA say could easily get authority tied to Administration and would be able to push it very far but would struggle with anything else on her own. Which is why Entities move from world to world to plunder different species for new ideas.

There has never been a difference in what the Way was. The Way is a literal embodiment of all the Concepts in the multiverse, just access to small fragment of it can let one create matter from nothing like what Lindon did. There is no such thing as the "Human" Way, the Way is the Way, the Vroshit also works with the Way just differently. Going outside the Way is going to pure nonexistence of all concepts itself

Click to shrink...

Then why are all worlds Abidan accesses rely on human thinking patterned sapients to the point that if the number of sapients becomes too low the world starts to collapse? To the point it's a strategic level problem to them.

 

[Geoul]

I'm pretty sure Taylor will not merge with QA to become a monarch. If QA comes back it's more likely that QA would become Taylor's abidan presence. Every abidan has one, dross was northstriders attempt to make one.

 

[Denty]

Then why are all worlds Abidan accesses rely on human thinking patterned sapients to the point that if the number of sapients becomes too low the world starts to collapse? To the point it's a strategic level problem to them.

Click to shrink...

They don't, there are multiple sentient alien species across different Iterations. Another series of the Author that exists in the same multiverse, The Captain, has the protagonist go along different planets and meet different species of aliens across his own universe. Galadriel, the Titan is also not human yet is a Judge that also has access to the Way

"Humans" are just a defined way of the Abidan to call any sentient being that anchors an Iteration to the Way. It is the Iteration that needs that sentient beings so that it doesn't break off and die. Entities which are still sentient beings that follows the laws of Physics and thus the Way would also be a being that anchors its Iteration (multiverse) to the Way

 

[Krazo]

Cradle spoilers:

Spoiler: Cradle spoilers

While I don't think Taylor will summon full physical QA and fuse with her, I think her living Madra deserves another look. QA might be more connected with Taylor's Madra than with Taylor herself which might that QA would have full control over Taylor's Remnant which might cause her Herald advancement to be easier and increase their connection after Monarch advancement

 

[Deathwings]

Of course the first thing she'd do upon becoming a Sage is go and create freaking Pattern Spiders. No surprise there.

 

[Jack Stargazer]

They don't, there are multiple sentient alien species across different Iterations. Another series of the Author that exists in the same multiverse, The Captain, has the protagonist go along different planets and meet different species of aliens across his own universe. Galadriel, the Titan is also not human yet is a Judge that also has access to the Way

"Humans" are just a defined way of the Abidan to call any sentient being that anchors an Iteration to the Way. It is the Iteration that needs that sentient beings so that it doesn't break off and die. Entities which are still sentient beings that follows the laws of Physics and thus the Way would also be a being that anchors its Iteration (multiverse) to the Way

Click to shrink...

Yeah basically this. The Entities are not Judge level opponents. They are maybe things that would let Titan level opponents sweat in a fight.

In the Cradle interludes, we see that a standard fight for a 2 star titan involves personally taking and shielding attacks which, at a minimum are planet-enders. When Daruman, who is a judge level opponent enters a universe stars begin to go out just from his presence there. Judge attacks create and destroy solar systems and whole universes as a matter of course. The Way has literal infinite power and is non-entropic.

The Entities are not that powerful, they are energy limited as a basic feature. Scion's attacks are continent destroying but not planet level. His strength is accessing different dimensions which is the basic power of all Abidan. He would be a tough fight for a one or two Star Titan that isn't like Yerin at the end of the series, but not even a speedbump for a Judge.

 

[NemiTheNen]

I don't think you are seeing the problem. Abidan operates solely on Human Way, their whole powers are tied to it. They can't see beyond it. There is the Human Way and Chaos.

Click to shrink...

I think I see where you are going with this.

"Humans" are just a defined way of the Abidan to call any sentient being that anchors an Iteration to the Way. It is the Iteration that needs that sentient beings so that it doesn't break off and die. Entities which are still sentient beings that follows the laws of Physics and thus the Way would also be a being that anchors its Iteration (multiverse) to the Way

Click to shrink...

Actually, Zoolimar may have a point.

Because it's a plot point that being human shaped lets you channel power better/more precisely, which is a pretty good indication that a "Human," body plan is rather intrinsic to The Way in someway.

Emriss and Shen cultivated to a human like perception of reality. Dragons are pretty human in outlook.

Nothing really alien, you know? A bit more than rubber foreheads, but not by much?

Meanwhile the entites have run into some real freaky deaky stuff out there. The Entites are freaky deaky. Hell, how inhuman they are might be why they don't cultivate, or whatever.

I think Zoolimar is positing the existance of a Ways that aren't "Human" centric, and instead...say the "best" form is triaxial and instead of cells everything is based on photovolatic crystals. Or something.

 

[Quest]

Because it's a plot point that being human shaped lets you channel power better/more precisely, which is a pretty good indication that a "Human," body plan is rather intrinsic to The Way in someway.

Click to shrink...

It's less body plan and more mindset. It's physically impossible to have non-human intelligences or high-level AI within the Way (not taking into account Fiends which exist outside of the Way). See here:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

I think we can treat entities as fiends quite easily and fit them into the Willverse paradigm.

 

[Zoolimar]

I think we can treat entities as fiends quite easily and fit them into the Willverse paradigm.

Click to shrink...

They could probably be mistaken for one but ultimately they are not fiends. It's like the difference between Demons and Outsiders in Dresden Files. Both are bad news but one is still playing by the rules, even if it is trying to cheat, and the other one just doesn't give a shit about the rules and would gladly push the rulebook down your throat.