Remove ads

Overlady: Attack of the Minions (Thread II)

Reader mode
xeivous said:
This is why we let the demon lawyer do the talking and don't represent ourselves.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Karin goes through Demons like a combine harvester through a field of wheat, to say nothing of what she does to lawyers.

The only firm that'd even entertain the thought of pursuing legal action against her is Dumb, Delusional and Desperate, and they have a less than stellar success rate.
Any lawyer summoned worth their fee is going to trigger every opt out clause in their contract the second Louise mention the job includes "talk down the Heavy Wind", and she'd be lucky not to be sued for attempted exorcism.
 
BadRoad said:
t seems like every two or three chapters we get someone who wants to argue moral relativity in a setting that the author has repeatedly and explicitly stated contains Good and Evil as verifiable physical forces.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I just want to know how Louise is going to avoid getting murdered to death by her mother for being Evil.

...Evil wins usually in the Overlord verse, right? Its been a while since I played any of the games.
 
Dragontrapper said:
I just want to know how Louise is going to avoid getting murdered to death by her mother for being Evil.

...Evil wins usually in the Overlord verse, right? Its been a while since I played any of the games.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No it doesn't.

The Overlords usually win, but remember that an Overlord can only take their power because another overlord lost theirs. The first was killed by eight heros, the second was sealed in hell and the third too likely ended up defeated in time. Evil loses, because Evil in the end is ultimately self destructive in a way that Good isn't.
 
... Actually Evil loses because ultimately whether or not they're good at the whole "ruler" thing 'heroes' eventually step forward to try to kill them.

And in truth, the Second Overlord died heroically, to prevent the Athe from escaping the Hells where a different god banished him and forced everyone to forget his name, even himself.

The Third... Well, till they make an Overlord III we won't know how, or if, he was defeated or if he just went "... Fuck this. I quit." and just gave someone else the job.

Both Good and Evil are self destructive, just in different ways. Good destroys itself by constantly stabbing itself in the back and fighting amoungst itself. Evil self-destructs in that generally speaking evil people are a touch more selfish than strictly desirable.
xeivous said:
Henriette is a necromancer, Jess is a half-incubus who is fully on the side of evil, Catt is a vampire who loves to eat people and basically anything else filled with blood. Everyone else on her side is minions.

Her accomplices are far and away from Good.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... I'd accuse you of racism here, but it'd be WAY too easy.

Frankly saying "EVIL... because Necromancy/Birth/Curse" is just... stupid. Necromancy being the only one you can say someone is evil on that basis alone because it's an active choice. Even then, it is very rarely what you're using, so much as how you use it. And you seem to have neglected to mention that the other half of Jess is a major Good individual as well. Or at least, is regarded as such. Cattleya has, as I already noted, only really killed people who tried to kill her... or were themselves evil. It's not like she killed random joe number 5 in the town of Niceville (which isn't corrupt unlike half the other places they've been too so far).

The minions meanwhile are essentially only as evil as the one directing them, which is the Overlord, not Gnarl (no matter how much that had to have annoyed him in Overlord 1) and the current Overlord(Well, Overlady) has, so far, not done anything that can actually be looked at as Evil (except by people actively looking for Evilness).

Gnarl is her one associate who is undeniable, and totally, Evil in and of himself. At the same time he's also slavishly devoted to the one who holds the title Overlord and really can't be seen as "Proof" she's Evil, or performing Evil.
 
Selonianth said:
...
Frankly saying "EVIL... because Necromancy/Birth/Curse" is just... stupid. Necromancy being the only one you can say someone is evil on that basis alone because it's an active choice. Even then, it is very rarely what you're using, so much as how you use it. And you seem to have neglected to mention that the other half of Jess is a major Good individual as well. Or at least, is regarded as such. Cattleya has, as I already noted, only really killed people who tried to kill her... or were themselves evil. It's not like she killed random joe number 5 in the town of Niceville (which isn't corrupt unlike half the other places they've been too so far).

The minions meanwhile are essentially only as evil as the one directing them, ...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Remember that there is a distinction between "evil" and "Evil." Necromancy, vampirism, and Minions are all "Evil" regardless of whether the individuals is good or evil, or the ends to which they're put.
 
... @Selonianth, which part of "Karin is not good at moral complexity, she is not going to listen to a long argument of 'the ends justify the means' and 'necromancy and minions aren't really evil they're just misunderstood' and 'no really Henrietta is the victim here because Wardes doing his duty by exposing her sin of promising herself eternally to one man and then committing adultery by getting engaged to another'" is not getting through to you?
 
Aleph said:
... @Selonianth, which part of "Karin is not good at moral complexity, she is not going to listen to a long argument of 'the ends justify the means' and 'necromancy and minions aren't really evil they're just misunderstood' and 'no really Henrietta is the victim here because Wardes doing his duty by exposing her sin of promising herself eternally to one man and then committing adultery by getting engaged to another'" is not getting through to you?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What part of *none of that was talking about Karin in the fucking slightest* is lost on you?

That was literally just a discussion of whether or not the *are* evil/Evil rather than if Karin will believe so.
Entropy Judge said:
Remember that there is a distinction between "evil" and "Evil." Necromancy, vampirism, and Minions are all "Evil" regardless of whether the individuals is good or evil, or the ends to which they're put.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm more replying to those who treat them as the lowercase definitions.
 
Selonianth said:
What part of *none of that was talking about Karin in the fucking slightest* is lost on you?

That was literally just a discussion of whether or not the *are* evil/Evil rather than if Karin will believe so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... the part where this entire conversation for the last 3+ pages has been about how Karin will see it and what Karin will do if she finds out (which, for the record, she probably won't for a good long time given what it'd do to the narrative). If you're going to suddenly switch tracks into objective definitions of right and wrong in the Overladyverse - a topic easily confused with "Karin's views on such" - you should probably be a bit more explicit about "okay, Karin conversation over, I'm now talking about what they are objectively".
 
Aleph said:
... the part where this entire conversation for the last 3+ pages has been about how Karin will see it and what Karin will do if she finds out (which, for the record, she probably won't for a good long time given what it'd do to the narrative). If you're going to suddenly switch tracks into objective definitions of right and wrong in the Overladyverse - a topic easily confused with "Karin's views on such" - you should probably be a bit more explicit about "okay, Karin conversation over, I'm now talking about what they are objectively".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... Or you could not make assumptions. That works too. I shouldn't have to say it's not about anything. Karin's name wasn't mentionedin either my own post or the one I replied to.
Sucal said:
Everything Evil is evil, but not everything evil is Evil.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... ehhh. Louise is Evil (by the arguments that the source of your power defines if you're Evil or Good) but she's not evil. She's definitely good.
 
Selonianth said:
... Or you could not make assumptions. That works too. I shouldn't have to say it's not about anything. Karin's name wasn't mentionedin either my own post or the one I replied to.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... no, but as said, we have been discussing Karin's Views on Overlady Morality for three pages; you included, and so when you make a post about Overlady Morality in the exact same vein as your previous posts in the discussion, my immediate thought is not "ah, @Selonianth has changed tracks and is now talking about the objective state of good and evil and Good and Evil in the Overladyverse, one would have to be a fool not to see this given the utter dearth of any indication that he has changed topic", it is "okay, this is a continuation of the discussion we've been having for the last three pages".
 
Aleph said:
Henrietta fucked up. She is an adulteress who promised herself to one man and then got engaged to another, and had sex outside of marriage on top of that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wasn't the sex outside of marriage part made up by the council? At least Agnes and Henrietta claimed so, they might not be entirely reliable, but neither is the word of the council.
 
iemand said:
Wasn't the sex outside of marriage part made up by the council? At least Agnes and Henrietta claimed so, they might not be entirely reliable, but neither is the word of the council.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This was actually discussed for several pages back when it first came up (here and here are points on it from the author). Henrietta has been quite clear that she kept her virginity intact, but... well, there's a great deal you can do without technically losing your virginity, and...
EarthScorpion said:
"Well, it emerged that Princess Henrietta had already pledged herself to the Prince Wales, and had sent men to recover her lover to safety in Tristain! Promised him her hand, and sworn sacred oaths to God and the Founder to that end! Scandal and infamy indeed, for that fact emerged after a marriage treaty had already been signed with Germania!"

Oh.

"Um," said Louise, blushing faintly. Oh. Oh. Um. If that had been… so that had… and then that… add up the dates… yes. Um. Oh dear. She was a little bit responsible for all of this happening because she had been the one who had been covering for Henrietta at that grand party to let her friend sneak away for some… kind of secret meeting. Multiple times. At night. And the princess had come back rather mussed and once with her dress on back to front and soaking wet. She had said she had been swimming, but...

Oh dear.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... it is rather implied that Henrietta and Wales did as much of it as they could. And on top of that;
EarthScorpion said:
Louise swallowed. "They… they can't and… no."

"Oh, but they can!" Scarron said gleefully. "She is merely the crown princess, not the queen, and her mother did not act to stop it; tales in the palace say that she is both furious and distraught. She was guilty, after all, by her own confession of pacta sunt servanda bigamy for she was promised by sacred oaths to two men at once. And as for the adultery… well, she could not prove that she had not consummated her relationship with the Prince Wales, and the presumption exists and has always existed that a marriage is consumed unless the bride can prove otherwise, and thus – since she and the Prince Wales are known to have met at least once when the Germanian marriage negotiations were in progress – adultery was added to her sins."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So yeah. It's not actually illegal or anti-Royal - Henrietta is entirely in the wrong (from a legal viewpoint), so Karin will be utterly, utterly unsympathetic to her given Karin's Rule of Steel views - and while the Council may well be using it as an excuse to seize power for themselves; they're all smart people who are able to do so because she gave them a perfectly airtight excuse to. It might be possible to convince Karin that the Council are bad as well, but in her opinion anyone who would fuck up to the degree that Henrietta has is not fit to rule.
 
Selonianth said:
The Third... Well, till they make an Overlord III we won't know how, or if, he was defeated or if he just went "... Fuck this. I quit." and just gave someone else the job.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Actually... Overlord: Fellowship Of Evil

The short version is that a dictatorial, lying, cheating, and brainwashing Unicorn called Sparkle kills the Fourth Overlord, then goes on a quest to forcefully 'goodify' the entire world. By force.

Anyone or anything that doesn't conform to his views is smote, smited, and/or forcefully converted into being 'good' and 'nice'.

Now, I'm not out to start a morals argument, but even I can see where that road ends. And it's not a very nice place at all... On the surface this 'Good' might be a good thing, until you realise that Sparkle won't stop until what He considers as being 'Good' and 'Nice' is all that exists. Forever.
 
PostwarGryphon said:
Actually... Overlord: Fellowship Of Evil

The short version is that a dictatorial, lying, cheating, and brainwashing Unicorn called Sparkle kills the Fourth Overlord, then goes on a quest to forcefully 'goodify' the entire world. By force.

Anyone or anything that doesn't conform to his views is smote, smited, and/or forcefully converted into being 'good' and 'nice'.

Now, I'm not out to start a morals argument, but even I can see where that road ends. And it's not a very nice place at all... On the surface this 'Good' might be a good thing, until you realise that Sparkle won't stop until what He considers as being 'Good' and 'Nice' is all that exists. Forever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As a point, if that's the 4th overlord... that's not the overlord from Overlord II.

As a second point, I refuse to acknowledge that game's existence.
 
I think we just about burned ourselves out on discussing morality and Karin for now. So how about the heroic party we've been following? How many of them do you guys think are going to end up in a very unhappy situation by the end of everything?

Cus I'm thinking Guiche is gonna die if any of them do end up taking a dirt nap. He just seems like the sort. Tabitha is the top contender for my personal "Not going to die" awards.
 
TheLastOne said:
Prequel Overlord, Overlord you slay in the first game, protagonist of the first game, protagonist from the second game.

That's four.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Prequel Overlord? Dafuq you mean? *much google-fu later* Yea fuck that game too... Sounds exceedingly short, pointless, and the Overlord of it doesn't even properly Overlord and conquer anything, sure he starts a war but he doesn't even capitalize on the weakened state 2 years later...
BadRoad said:
Well, it's not like Karin was pledged to someone else at the time, or afterward, so it's not bigamy or adultery, just fornication.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Technically Henrietta is guilty of neither of those, as Bigamy is the 'crime' (not *actually* a crime, just not legal... weird how it works out) of being married to more than one person and Henrietta was not yet married to anyone. While Adultery again requires you to be married and sleep with another individual. Also, historically, has never been an actual crime for anyone except the Puritans... who were about as stuck up and prudish as possible.

Also, FTFY, there's only one a in Karin's name.
 
Dropping the xth* ​iteration of the Evil is not evil argument...

Karin's hotpants vs. Kirche's Moustache, which is a deadlier weapon? If they were in a room together, who would be left more confused?



*Where x is a sufficiently large number to make all normal people lose all interest in the topic.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top