I'm pretty sure having an actual son would be a feather in his cap but he's fine with one of his 'sons' doing a Sweet Polly Oliver. Of course if he has a 'real' son he'll toss them aside because he's an asshole. The uncertainly and fear and disruption is on his children, not him.


He already has a son: Kirsten. Danny, too, and all the rest of his offspring. You will note that he hasn't just thrown them aside, and kept trying. He has legitimately tried to make sure that they would be well-positioned for their life to come. As sons, I'll grant, which is a problem, but he has still tried to make sure that they would be taken care of.

I very much doubt that he will cast aside any of his children if he has a son. The man is not misogynistic, he's flat-out delusional. Like the vast majority of the characters called "good" in this story, he is no angel, and his tendencies towards good come not from personal preference, but from the fact that he is deeply delusional, and really needs a couple of decades' worth of therapy before he can be called ready to enter into society.
 
He already has a son: Kirsten. Danny, too, and all the rest of his offspring. You will note that he hasn't just thrown them aside, and kept trying. He has legitimately tried to make sure that they would be well-positioned for their life to come. As sons, I'll grant, which is a problem, but he has still tried to make sure that they would be taken care of.

I very much doubt that he will cast aside any of his children if he has a son. The man is not misogynistic, he's flat-out delusional. Like the vast majority of the characters called "good" in this story, he is no angel, and his tendencies towards good come not from personal preference, but from the fact that he is deeply delusional, and really needs a couple of decades' worth of therapy before he can be called ready to enter into society.

Eh, reread the interlude where they react to learning he's going to try for a child again, and how they fear an "actual" (scare quotes very much needed) "son" will discrupt there own place and chances.
 
Did you miss the self-awareness? Did you miss the parts where she reexamined her feelings for what's'erface and that one guy and resolved to be more open and honest about those feelings?

And, yes, she grew in power and ability, too.

And cast off evil.

And such and whatnot.

It's like she had a twenty minute bildungsroman (120 minute?). This shit puts satirical presentations of training montages to shame.

Yes, it was a godsdamned cliff.

No, she probably doesn't get to keep it. And yeah, that kind of disappoints me in a way that kind of hurts. But protagonists who get their happy endings handed to them are unlikely to show up in this kind of story except as objects of derision.

lrn2criticallyreadingcomprehension, plz
The only thing in that list that is actual character growth is the part about her deciding to get her love life together. Her natural wind affinity just reasserted itself after Eleanore stole the Gauntlet and her Void/Evil magic and her skill with wind magic is a consequence of her previous magical experience. She also didn't cast off evil willingly, all her inclination for it went away without the Void magic being within her. However nothing about her current state is in any way an easily handed happy ending and both of her romantic interests are incredibly risky, perhaps even more so than when she was Overlady. All that changed was that Louise is finally willing to do something productive in that aspect of her life.
 
Oh, I'm not arguing the fact that the kids are scared. I'm simply saying that I don't think they have reason to be. Von Zerbst's character development, I suspect, will be to discover what has been staring at him in the face this whole time: that he has sons, they just happen to be female. To do anything else would disrupt the so-far very carefully built image of those who follow Good being more delusional/insane than actually being good people. The Von Zerbsts have followed Good for centuries. It would stand to reason that the family's current leader is fully as insane as any of the other Good characters that we have seen so far in the story.
 
Think you mean Kirche here, autocorrect likely screwed you there.

Otherwise, I agree with the first part of your post, but I disagree that Blitzhart wouldn't cast aside the rest of his children if he had a legitimate son. Oh, I doubt he'd throw them out of his house/estate, but Kirche would definitely be disinherited and only left with a token inheritance with the rest of her siblings, which probably isn't that bad for her or Danny economically at the moment with all the loot and rep she's been building up going heroing, but probably worse for those who haven't or aren't of age to do so yet, and he'd likely focus on his new son exclusively to "raise him properly" to his skewed standards of masculinity and heroism and Goodness, to the detriment of the rest of his children attention wise, benevolently ignoring them even more than he is doing so to them now.

He'd probably try and get them married off for political or financial (for his children's) advantage (or at least not interfere with his wife's attempts to do so, which are bound to have happened only for him to veto any potential husband and insisting she look for proper wives for his sons), depending on how he now sees his previous sons/daughters after the birth of an actual son, to ensure that they be treated well in their life now that they're probably no longer proper sons in his eyes and now likely have to act like proper Germanian nobles, Louise's comments about their propriety notwithstanding. He'd likely change entirely how he's handling them as his heirs and sons because of the birth of a possible legitimate son.
 
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Think you mean Kirche here, autocorrect likely screwed you there.

Otherwise, I agree with the first part of your post, but I disagree that Blitzhart wouldn't cast aside the rest of his children if he had a legitimate son. Oh, I doubt he'd throw them out of his house/estate, but Kirche would definitely be disinherited and only left with a token inheritance with the rest of her siblings, which probably isn't that bad for her or Danny economically at the moment with all the loot and rep she's been building up going heroing, but probably worse for those who haven't or aren't of age to do so yet, and he'd likely focus on his new son exclusively to "raise him properly" to his skewed standards of masculinity and heroism and Goodness, to the detriment of the rest of his children attention wise, benevolently ignoring them even more than he is doing so to them now.

He'd probably try and get them married off for political or financial (for his children's) advantage (or at least not interfere with his wife's attempts to do so, which are bound to have happened only for him to veto any potential husband and insisting she look for proper wives for his sons), depending on how he now sees his previous sons/daughters after the birth of an actual son, to ensure that they be treated well in their life now that they're probably no longer proper sons in his eyes and now likely have to act like proper Germanian nobles, Louise's comments about their propriety notwithstanding. He'd likely change entirely how he's handling them as his heirs and sons because of the birth of a possible legitimate son.

I didn't get screwed up by auto-correct, actually. I flat out forgot the right name, and since most of the other names are similar to ones I'm familiar with...ah, well. Mistakes, and all that.

As for the inheritance, Kirche won't get to inherit anyway. Both she and Danny have noted that the Markgraf has a number of bastard sons, who, as Blitzhart's sons, would automatically inherit before Kirche anyway...provided they could prove that Blitzhart was the father. The only people who would be able to contest their inheritance would be Kirche's male cousins, or her husband (who would come in third on the inheritance line). Since she isn't in any hurry to marry, and doesn't seem to be under any real pressure to do so, I think I can safely say that she is pretty far down the inheritance ladder. Otherwise...well, being able to add "Markgraf" to your list of titles would be a MAJOR incentive to wed into the family, since the family's traditional opposition to the de la Vallaires would indicate a rather impressive degree of wealth, political power, and military strength. If Kirche was a realistic candidate for inheritance, she would represent a major prize for every noble in Germania--perhaps a prize comparable to Henrietta or Eleanor.

And yes, I know Eleanor went adventuring, but she is a pretty seriously impressive earth mage, and she was in the company of the man who is currently the second most powerful air mage in the kingdom. I don't know how powerful Magda is, but we do know that Marzipan was also pretty impressively dangerous. She had some pretty serious protection, is what I'm getting at, and she still was never allowed to go adventuring and to make a name for herself to the same extent as her mother did. Unlike Karin, Eleanor is not a free agent, and cannot wander and seek out danger to the same extent that her mother did. There are too many lives depending on her, there is too much at stake, and if she decides to kill her former self, she is risking far, far too much upon the idea of Catt having any kind of serious magic.
 
As for the inheritance, Kirche won't get to inherit anyway. Both she and Danny have noted that the Markgraf has a number of bastard sons, who, as Blitzhart's sons, would automatically inherit before Kirche anyway...provided they could prove that Blitzhart was the father.
I'm not sure that's how noble inheritance works. I was pretty sure you needed to be a legitimate heir, or at least recognized by your noble parent. Now, if you can kill off all the legitimate heirs you might have a chance, but nobody has made much progress with that so far.
 
I'm not sure that's how noble inheritance works. I was pretty sure you needed to be a legitimate heir, or at least recognized by your noble parent. Now, if you can kill off all the legitimate heirs you might have a chance, but nobody has made much progress with that so far.

Legitimacy is a tricky thing, especially if there are no legitimate living sons of your body.

Traditionally, inheritance goes to the oldest son (although some French and German noble families split the inheritance among ALL the surviving sons, which accounts for some of the rather bizarre holdings among those nations' aristocracies), although in modern times, that has shifted to include daughters, as well. However, if there are no surviving male children of the official marriage(s), bastard offspring can make a play to become the official heir--this was William of Normandy's claim on the English throne, for instance. At that point, being recognized tends to become a bit of a moot point, although precedence is given to those that the father publicly recognized, either while he was still alive, or through a will. If the heir-presumptive already had a family, had children, and died before the father died, the chain of legitimacy will officially pass through the heir's line of descent first, as those are the ones in the legitimate chain of inheritance, although typically another family member will be named regent (or trustee) until those offspring can reach the age of majority, and/or marry, depending on their gender.

Otherwise, as I said, all that is required for a bastard son to make a strong claim for their father's holdings would be for them to provide proof of paternity. Once this is done, the bastard son may have a claim every bit as strong as any of Blitzhart's brothers, and quite a bit stronger than Kirche's own claim. In some circumstances, if the proof of paternity is strong enough, the bastard child can make a serious claim to the inheritance that rivals that of the legitimate offspring, although this is rare. For those of you who have been enjoying Game of Thrones, by the way, this is the basis for Jon Snow's claim to the title of Prince of Dragonstone: although he is a bastard, he is still the son of the last holder of that title, and is thus in line for the inheritance.

Typically, many bastards made their play for their father's inheritance using proof that was...not entirely valid, shall we say, which is why the term "bastard" carries the pejorative sense that it does today. For this reason, a bastard son could often face serious opposition in court, and was frequently defeated by the putative father's siblings...but the entire reason they had to file suit, and fight the verdict in court, was because the law held that the bastard inherited first, and then the siblings.
 
This is complicated, of course, by the simple fact that on many occasions, the person to inherit was female. Bloody Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Anne...the list goes on, and the names tend to be noteworthy, as any female who could inherit, and keep the inheritance in her name, tended to be quite capable. Any time you saw a female Guild member, or a woman who was a noble in her own right, you were well advised to tread very cautiously--her power base may not have been as overtly powerful as her rivals, but she was still a major heavyweight, politically and financially.
 
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The situation is probably also complicated when your daughters can melt their half-brothers' faces off by pointing a stick at them.
 
I dunno. The notions of male superiority of our history probably apply to some extent in Halkeginia, but I'm reluctant to think they are the same for the simple reason that magic is a great equalizer. When women are just as capable of murder and mayhem as men in general, some things are bound to change over the milennia of cultural development.

And I'm thinking that bastard sons are unlikely to receive training in magic while legitimate daughters may be walking weapons of mass destruction. If situations such as these present themselves often enough, eventually people are going to stop complaining altogether about female inheritance.

We know Halkeginia still has male priority, but I'm inclined to think that it's generally kinder on female inheritance.
 
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And I'm thinking that bastard sons are unlikely to receive training in magic while legitimate daughters may be walking weapons of mass destruction.
Might depend...
Common bastards made by noble with servants or villagers? Sure.

Someone adventuring like Kirche's father? He has bastards with saved princesses, dragons, succubus... anything sort of human shaped and female? Some could get real good training...

Then some with Blitzhart's bastard being Evil and trying to kill him or legitimate children? All demons in abyss could gladly offer training in techniques that are really dangerous to user and heavy on collateral damage to get rid of Blitzhart?
 
I dunno. The notions of male superiority of our history probably apply to some extent in Halkeginia, but I'm reluctant to think they are the same for the simple reason that magic is a great equalizer. When women are just as capable of murder and mayhem as men in general, some things are bound to change over the milennia of cultural development.

And I'm thinking that bastard sons are unlikely to receive training in magic while legitimate daughters may be walking weapons of mass destruction. If situations such as these present themselves often enough, eventually people are going to stop complaining altogether about female inheritance.

We know Halkeginia still has male priority, but I'm inclined to think that it's generally kinder on female inheritance.


It is, and it isn't.

Magic in Halkegina would be one of three primary societal pressures that would be coming into play to create the society as it exists in that realm. Only two of these pressures existed in our own timeline, it is true, so magic would have some kind of mitigating effect on things, but not as much as people might think because of how European history tended to develop.

First off, the single most important pressure upon society, both in Halkegina, and in our own world, would be the requirement to keep everybody fed and clothed. Because most of the lower classes have only minimal magic--if any--this is something that would only be possible using muscle-powered labor. Halkegina, as it is portrayed, is just beginning to undergo the very first stages of what would later come to be called the Industrial Revolution (or possibly the Second Industrial Revolution, depending on which history you consult), as evidenced by the somewhat widespread use of muskets (as opposed to arquebuses), cannons, and other gunpowder-based weaponry, and the size of Tristania's capital indicates that the accompanying revolutions in agriculture and medicine have most likely started, but the vast majority of the production, labor, and so forth and so on would still be dominated by muscle power, which would tend to mean that males will automatically enjoy an extremely sizable advantage over most females. Again, this held true in our world, as well as in Halkegina, and would continue to extend even into the ranks of the nobility, since the expectations of the commoners generally dictate the actions of the nobility (albeit in extremely unexpected ways).

The second most important pressure upon Halkeginan society, particularly in the upper crust, is the presence of children, and the relative difficulty in bringing them up to adulthood. This is a major issue for two reasons: first of all because the female population is always the primary bottleneck on any effort for any society to maintain or even expand its population; and secondly, because children, as any parent knows, take up an extra-ordinary amount of time, and if the parents cannot afford a nanny, one parent will likely have to stay home to tend to them. Since, as mentioned above, most labor is still done by sheer physical strength, in most cases, the task of child-rearing will be done by females, since it is something that relies more upon intelligence, empathy, and other more cerebral abilities, rather than upon one's ability to pick the child up, and toss him or her up onto the roof. In short, without television, and several other key technologies, society will typically be either female-dominant, or male-dominant. The simple facts of pregnancy will tend to skew this towards the male-dominant, since pregnancy means several months of decreased female productivity, even with magic, meaning that most societies will still tend to be male-dominated. Basically, what it boils down to, when you get right down to it, is that most societies in Earth's recorded history have been male-dominated for the very simple reason that males are the only ones who have the time to spare to become the dominant sex.

The third major pressure is, indeed, magic. Since both sexes have magic, the typical solution I would foresee is that any partner in a marriage involving magic-users would boil down to whomever is the more magically powerful partner would be dominant within the marriage. Thus, I can easily see Karin being perceived as dominant within her marriage--hence the reason why the servants all agree that it is Karin's fault that Louise's father has turned to Good, despite the fact that he clearly was a hero, and not a villain, long before he met Karin. But because Karin is the more powerful mage, she is assumed to be dominant. The same will likely be true for Eleanore. Louise will have a somewhat different circumstance--because she is magically powerful, she should be dominant, but that will only hold true if her magic can be used reliably, which, right now, may or may not be the case. This will have even more interesting ramifications if she actually acts on her feelings towards Henrietta, since Louise appears to be the more magically gifted (and powerful) mage between the two of them, but Henrietta most definitely has the edge in terms of actual political and legal power.

At the end of the day, I would expect Halkeginan society to be effectively male-dominated, but with a strong element of respecting female rights, as well, due to the fact that so many upper-class females can melt your face off if you cross them. Therefore, I expect that the accompanying chauvinism that sprang up around male-dominant societies on Earth would be mostly or even totally absent in Halkeginian society.

I would expect that the primary difference between Halkegina and Earth would lie in how the nobility treats bastard offspring, or even outright commoners who manage to claw their way up from the lower classes. On Earth, it was something of a stigma to be a bastard, and a bastard had absolutely no right to have any expectations of inheritance or any other kind of support from their father...or from their mother, more often than not, since generally the margin of survival for a single mother in pre-computer society was too small for her to be able to offer much, if anything, in the way of material support or inheritance (this was not always the case, however--the first black millionaire in America was a single mother, for instance). However, with magic entering into the equation, things change. The more magic, and the more magic-users, a family has access to, the more militarily/magically powerful that family becomes--hence the reason why the Royal Family would hide some of its magical abilities away, and never teach them to anybody outside the direct line of succession. This would mean that, for the magic-users, bastard offspring are potentially a powerful and very important source of auxiliary power. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that part of the reason the Von Zerbst family has survived for so long isn't because they're tough, or devout, or even powerful, but more than anything because they breed like rabbits, and aren't shy about acknowledging bastard offspring. In short, Blitzhart isn't an exception--he's more likely the rule.

Commoners, too, would benefit more from the societal pressures created by the presence of magic, and for much the same reason. The simple fact that magic would be so critically important would mean that commoners would tend to be rapidly absorbed into noble families whenever they expressed any degree of magic, and a family of commoners that consistently produced magical offspring would likely find itself elevated to the status of nobility whether the rest of the family wanted to be nobles or not. For those commoners who resisted being absorbed into the nobility, the simple fact of their magical (or even non-magical) power would act as a cloak of respectability that no noble family would wish to look down upon, lest it come back to haunt them. This is why one of the original four Council members had to be popular with the common folk: if the commoners didn't support the Regency Council, the Council itself could not hope to draw upon the magical or the material reserves necessary to prevent the more powerful nobles from going off and doing their own thing. With de la Mott gone, the Council will find itself being forced to resort to increasingly harsh and unpopular means to maintain control--means which will inevitably mean that Louise will gain increasing amounts of support as she moves more and more openly within her home kingdom.

And before you start to point out Louise's attitude towards commoners, I would simply point out that Louise's attitude towards commoners is actually pretty mild, compared to the attitudes shared by much of Medieval and Rennaissance Europe. Louise may not have much respect for them, but at no point is she seriously rude to them (without provocation, anyway)...and her opponents are.
 
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On the other hand, there's something of a division between the practices of commoners and nobility. The kind of childhood marriages you occasionally see among the nobility were basically unheard-of among commoners because commoners have to be able to support a family before getting married, while nobles can live off taxes and let an aunt or uncle handle the paperwork until the nominal heads of house are of age. Meanwhile, political alliances are sometimes too time-sensitive to wait for a marriage candidate to come of age, while John and Jane Dirtfarmer aren't under a lot of political pressure to tie the knot. Misogyny might be one of those commoner traits that nobles consider crass and backward. (Which would make Blitzheart even funnier.)
 
On the other hand, there's something of a division between the practices of commoners and nobility. The kind of childhood marriages you occasionally see among the nobility were basically unheard-of among commoners because commoners have to be able to support a family before getting married, while nobles can live off taxes and let an aunt or uncle handle the paperwork until the nominal heads of house are of age. Meanwhile, political alliances are sometimes too time-sensitive to wait for a marriage candidate to come of age, while John and Jane Dirtfarmer aren't under a lot of political pressure to tie the knot. Misogyny might be one of those commoner traits that nobles consider crass and backward. (Which would make Blitzheart even funnier.)


This is true, but most of the behavior of any upper class is still determined to some extent by the need to keep themselves alive and wealthy. This is why there was so much disdain for the lower classes in Europe for so long--acknowledging that the lower classes could be just as smart, capable, and dangerous as the nobles would put the nobles' power base at risk, and make the nobles much more vulnerable to the lower classes' displeasure. Evidence of this can be found in how Americans reacted to wealth in the Gilded Age--until American millionaires and billionaires determined what the masses required of them, there was something that looked remarkably like open class warfare in this country. That divide still exists, to some extent, in the United Kingdom, and in other places.
 
Based off what what Kirche has been said, Halkeginia or at least Blitzhart, follow the idea of male primogeniture with a legitimacy requirement as well. So Kirche, being the eldest daughter, is worried that daddy dearest will eventually produce a legitimate son who would knock her out of the position of heir. Hence why she adventures.
 
I would expect that the primary difference between Halkegina and Earth would lie in how the nobility treats bastard offspring, or even outright commoners who manage to claw their way up from the lower classes. On Earth, it was something of a stigma to be a bastard, and a bastard had absolutely no right to have any expectations of inheritance or any other kind of support from their father...or from their mother, more often than not, since generally the margin of survival for a single mother in pre-computer society was too small for her to be able to offer much, if anything, in the way of material support or inheritance (this was not always the case, however--the first black millionaire in America was a single mother, for instance). However, with magic entering into the equation, things change. The more magic, and the more magic-users, a family has access to, the more militarily/magically powerful that family becomes--hence the reason why the Royal Family would hide some of its magical abilities away, and never teach them to anybody outside the direct line of succession. This would mean that, for the magic-users, bastard offspring are potentially a powerful and very important source of auxiliary power. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that part of the reason the Von Zerbst family has survived for so long isn't because they're tough, or devout, or even powerful, but more than anything because they breed like rabbits, and aren't shy about acknowledging bastard offspring. In short, Blitzhart isn't an exception--he's more likely the rule.

Commoners, too, would benefit more from the societal pressures created by the presence of magic, and for much the same reason. The simple fact that magic would be so critically important would mean that commoners would tend to be rapidly absorbed into noble families whenever they expressed any degree of magic, and a family of commoners that consistently produced magical offspring would likely find itself elevated to the status of nobility whether the rest of the family wanted to be nobles or not.
I don't have much to argue with and the intricacies of the interactions between social classes are too complicated for me to even try guessing. However, what I'm quoting here has rather drastic implications. If we assume that magical "commoners" are tolerated and allowed to keep breeding, then what's stopping all of the Halkeginian population from becoming magical in time? Second sons, bastards, disgraced nobles and other individuals who for whatever reason may or may not decide to take a commoner partner and live the commoner life. If allowed to do their thing, I would expect that over the course of six thousand years a considerable portion of the commoner population would be magical or have the potential for it. With this, the established nobility runs the risk of losing their monopoly on magic. I don't see them reacting well to such threat.

Elevating every magical commoner to the position of noble is unhealthy in the long term for the status quo. So, I'm guessing that nobles in general (or perhaps the state?) are not kind to anyone who is capable of magic and is not "officially" a noble.

In the context of Overlady, this probably means... not witch hunts, because everyone is a witch, but accusations of deals with a devil, interference by dark gods or Evil corruption in general.
 
Usually magic is rare and low chance of being inherited in various stories if it is genetic?

Haven't read novels, but I think I have seen of fact thread that original mages that are ancestor of current ruling mages were a tribe with them all being mages, Brimir was one of them?

And... this being important... they were more powerful mages then current ones, as everyone became square mage at 20 years. Not just prodigy.

So breeding with commoners and weakening bloodlines... nobles would rage no, it destroys their birthright, right to rule?

Will try digging on forum now, unless someone is faster to replay if this is fact.
 
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I don't have much to argue with and the intricacies of the interactions between social classes are too complicated for me to even try guessing. However, what I'm quoting here has rather drastic implications. If we assume that magical "commoners" are tolerated and allowed to keep breeding, then what's stopping all of the Halkeginian population from becoming magical in time? Second sons, bastards, disgraced nobles and other individuals who for whatever reason may or may not decide to take a commoner partner and live the commoner life. If allowed to do their thing, I would expect that over the course of six thousand years a considerable portion of the commoner population would be magical or have the potential for it. With this, the established nobility runs the risk of losing their monopoly on magic. I don't see them reacting well to such threat.

Elevating every magical commoner to the position of noble is unhealthy in the long term for the status quo. So, I'm guessing that nobles in general (or perhaps the state?) are not kind to anyone who is capable of magic and is not "officially" a noble.

In the context of Overlady, this probably means... not witch hunts, because everyone is a witch, but accusations of deals with a devil, interference by dark gods or Evil corruption in general.


You're right, this is a rather complex subject, and one that has always sort of fascinated me. Anything to do with human political, economic, etc relationships fascinates me.

As to the eventual result...you're correct. In fact, you are inevitably correct--no matter what measures are taken to restrict its spread, sooner or later magical ability would become a basis for nobility, and sooner or later, the ability to use magic would begin to spread out amongst the common people. Many, if not most, of the local nobles would object to this, and it is quite possible that they may well try to prevent it from happening, although how they would expect to do this is a mystery to me. However, by this point, the simple fact of the matter would be that the support of the towns and cities would be more important to the king than the support of the often-fractious noble families, so, just like on Earth, you would see the royal families lend their influence, resources, prestige, and military might to supporting the local burghers. On Earth, this process took something like four hundred years, and was more successful in some countries, than in others--in Poland, for example, five hundred years of effort would ultimately fail completely, leading the way to the commoners being locked into perpetual serfdom while a meager 15% of the population could call themselves noble, and, therefore, free; while in France, the aristocracy was effectively wiped out over the course of some seventy-five years of political struggle, starting in the 1790s, and continuing into the 1860s. I would expect something similar to happen with magic, although I could not begin to tell you how much of an impact truly powerful wizards and sorcerers would have on a mid-magic society.

I am curious to see what others would expect, but this is likely not the place for such speculation.
 
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Found where I have seen that modern day mages are weaker.
ZnT 'Back to Basics' #6: (Mostly) LN Canon Discussion
The Markey is a tribe/species/subspecies/group of (demi)humans that follow the "Humanity plus" template in which the "Plus" is Magic, or "Markey Magic", the same magic used by mages in modern day Halk. This is because Modern day mages are in fact descendants of the Markey. However, due to various factors in the past, a ten-year old would have just started being a Line mage (the girl in question was a Wind mage, just starting on Fire), as compared to current-day when at 10 if you can cast multiple spells you're seen as a prodigy.

By adulthood in Brimir's time every mage would have been square class, and capable in casting in ALL four elements. Ten of them once held off a arrow-rain launched by a army more greater than the one from Saxe-Gotha (in numbers, equipment and strength - this is the Varyag we're talking about, the race that almost drove elves and humans to extinction and infamous to the point they struck fear into all of their enemies) long enough for Brimir to cast a Explosion that decimated the opposing army.

Basically their "Average power" across their people was higher than that of modern mages.

Is mage "gene" dominant or not? How much is there chance of spreading magic, without it being too weak?
 
Found where I have seen that modern day mages are weaker.
ZnT 'Back to Basics' #6: (Mostly) LN Canon Discussion


Is mage "gene" dominant or not? How much is there chance of spreading magic, without it being too weak?


It is almost certain that there would have had to have been several genes that were associated with magic, and that virtually all of them would have had to be present in the Markey tribe. Since all current mages/nobles are descendents of the Markey tribe, all of their magic-using genetics would have originated from that tribe.

Now: Population Genetics Made Simple

As it turns out, there are answers to these questions.

The evolutionary cycle for this kind of thing dictates that two things would have to happen for the Markey magic to spread into the general population: first of all, the magic would have to spread out--thin out the bloodlines--into a more widespread, but weaker base, one that encompasses all or most of the population; then, the bloodlines would begin to recombine, and the population would gradually start to regain the lost magical power. The total cycle time for this project is believed to be something like 300 gneerations, or about 10,000 years. That said, there is strong evidence to indicate that this number is somewhat low--it could be quite a bit greater, although nobody really knows how much greater, since all studies on the subject have, obviously, been conducted on non-sentient lifeforms.

I think somebody said that Brimir lived...6,000 years ago? Something like that? If so, the process would be about 2/3 completed, and we should start seeing a fundamental magical transformation of society at some point within the next ten generations, as the number of magic users becomes too great for the nobility to contain. The recovery of the full power of the Markey tribe will probably take something along the lines of 9000 to 18000 years, so it's going to take a while...but it will happen.
 
although some French and German noble families split the inheritance among ALL the surviving sons, which accounts for some of the rather bizarre holdings among those nations' aristocracies
Fucking gavelkind, worst inheritance law in CK2.
this is the basis for Jon Snow's claim to the title of Prince of Dragonstone: although he is a bastard, he is still the son of the last holder of that title, and is thus in line for the inheritance.
Winterfell, actually.

With regards to bastards inheriting, going back to a CK2 example, they can't normally inherit over legitimate children depending on inheritance law of the holding in question, but you do have a weak claim to it, which you can press in a war if the current holder is female or a minor or some other conditions.
 
There sure are a lot of people who think they know the inheritance politics of this story better than the author does.
 
There sure are a lot of people who think they know the inheritance politics of this story better than the author does.


That is a result of either over-education on our part, or arrogance. I'll leave you to take your pick--I'm just as happy with either.:coolbeans:

And, honestly, both are probably equally accurate when you are describing me.
 
Halkeginian inheritance laws in Overlady are rather different on paper than they are in practice.

When it comes down to it, with a very long history of evil bastards murdering good lords, good bastards murdering evil lords, the lord being a cross-dressing woman, low-born peasants turning out to have secret histories as the son of the king and being granted a title, people making their bastards into dukes [1], the low-born heroic adventuring party being granted titles after saving the kingdom from demons, areas of the land being devastated by the Forces of Evil and so new nobles being needed, sections of the aristocracy being wiped out by the Forces of Good and so new nobles being needed...

... well, you should treat the claims of "unbroken legitimate succession all the way back to Brimir" with enough salt to cleanse the Underworld.

In practice, there's a fairly constant inflow of lowborn mages into the nobility, both for political reasons and also for demographic reasons (look, nobles and heroing produce a fairly high attrition rate). Of course, that comes via all kinds of excuses, but it's one of the reasons that no, you're not going to see a sizable and growing population of lowborn mages transforming all of humanity into mages - there's a constant suction into the low nobility.

(also, there's no such thing as genes in this setting, where Blitzhart can have children with basically anything intelligent that has tried to fight him)

And any bastard who wants to press their claim against the von Zerbst estate is going up against Kirche and her siblings, of which there are a lot and they are rather used to their father's illegitimate children trying to murder them. So, you know. Good luck with that.

[1] See - how the de la Vallieres got started.
 
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