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Overlady: Attack of the Minions (Thread II)

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Its certainly a Tweest. But to be honest we have been kicking around here for a while... I would have probably been happier if things ended here so we could move on to new events. But as it goes, im kinda hoping Gnarl pops up, scolds her for being inferior and takes the gauntlet back to louise.

I mean, realistically for this story if Eleanor keeps the gauntlet for any length of time, that will completely derail all of louise's hard work and plans. Her power is fundamentally based on the Gauntlet in the form of the Overlady persona, her minion armies (and the named minion support cast), her reputation and her alliances. Without the gauntlet shes no longer the Overlady, her fortress could be literally stolen out from under her along with all that entails. Her Armies will no longer listen to her at best and at worse will turn over to supporting the new Overlady. If word of this gets out it will completely destroy her reputation in hell, that dark lord guy who shes been flirting with wont want anything to do with her and her other contacts will all dry up without Gnarl's help.

Shell be left with nothing but herself(without the focus shes been using all this time for her magic), catt (who is still a vampire, now without a lair or convient food source), and Henrietta(who just lost access to the fortress's store of necromantic knowledge) and her status as the Overlady's Second) and jessica.... who might not be all that bothered by all this, but theres no small chance that shell be recalled by her father, since Louise can no longer guarantee her safety.

So unless she gets that thing back soon... everything thats happened so far in the story might as well not have happened at all, and Louise is back to square one. Hell, its giving me Sword of Truth PTSD flashbacks; "Yay, you won! But now your fucked!"
 
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PostwarGryphon said:
Louise knows she's Evil, she doesn't deny it (much), but she wants to be Good.

Eleanore is Evil but she's deluded herself into thinking she's Good, but will use the pretence of being Good as an excuse to do Evil in a heartbeat. She likes being Evil.
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Obloquy said:
The difference is, Louise is trying to be/become Good despite the Evil stuff while Eleanore probably isn't worried because she already believes herself to be Good.
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o_O

Louise has deluded herself into believing she's not Evil so hard that even the thread has bought into it.

Louise does not believe she's Evil. She made a plan that had her be "secretly Good" while relying on the forces of Evil. Every time she's confronted with the fact that she might actually be slipping too far into Evil, she sticks her fingers in her ears and refuses to address the issue.

She still believes that everything will work out for her in the end and that she can just go back to being normal, Good Louise, only not a zero this time because she can actually use magic now.

Also, in terms of actual bodycount Louise has killed quite a lot of people, directly or indirectly. She did spare the lord of Jiazha, but only because she couldn't stomach the idea of killing him once it was in her face (lalala I'm not doing evil things even though I just crushed a large hunting party made of people who's only crime was to be opposed to an evil dragon emperor because I need a favour from him)

Oh, did people forget that happened when they were convincing themselves that Eleanore is actually the villain here? I'm sorry.


By contrast, Eleanore has trapped the soul of Marzipan in a crystal and has been very mean to a lot of people. Said crystal is explicitly meant to only trap the souls of demons/Evil people. We can presume that the rest of her actions offscreen have generally fallen into the "Mean but Good or at worst Neutral" category.

(Being Mean to Evil people is definitely not Evil in itself, seeing as Heroes can get away with severely maiming or killing people who are Evil aligned, and that's considerably more severe than just belittling them)



Also, it's quite possible the Gauntlet just opted for a more subtle approach with Louise, given that she had no idea what the Gauntlet was, whereas Eleanore has done a lot of reading in various sections of the Amstreldamme University and the only way to get her to put it on was to mindwhammy her while she was suffering from severe wound penalties.
 
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I'm not so sure that wound penalties is enough of an answer. Nothing bad has happened to Louise when she's gotten hurt thus far, as far as the Gauntlet is concerned, and she's gotten the absolute SHIT beaten out of her by every single boss fight she's gotten into minus the spider-demon lady. The most the Gauntlet seems to be doing for her is send her visions of past Overpersons and teach her more Evil magic.
 
The gauntlet appears to have some measure of intelligence, and so might have recognised that hitting her with such an unsubtle level of influence would run into against her sheer stubborn willpower, and also her complex about Not Actually Being Evil Even Though I Consort With Demons And Vampires and Necromancers*

Also, constantly wrestling with your wielder's mind for control is a good way to ensure that they eventually break and go insane.

No need to do that when you can just give them a subtle nudge and let them convince themselves it was their idea all along.

Point is, Louise didn't realise what she was dealing with, so she could be unwittingly corrupted. Eleanore was fully aware of what she was handling, so it wasn't possible for it to be the subtle corrupter.


*Not that kind of consorting.

(Also note at the start of the story that Louise was very tired and hungry and probably quite low on willpower)
 
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Setting aside her delusions of using evil for good, Louise comes across as a classically old school villain like Ming the Merciless while Eleanore post gauntlet reminds me too much of Arthas Menethil after he pulled frostmorne.
 
Dragontrapper said:
But she can't do that! They already have a token Evil party member! Or does 'secretly Evil' get its own team slot?
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She'd obviously be the temporary party member.

Bonus points if she swipes some gear from the Heroes when the event ends ...

EDIT: That, or the subject of an escort mission.
Alane1 said:
Setting aside her delusions of using evil for good, Louise comes across as a classically old school villain like Ming the Merciless while Eleanore post gauntlet reminds me too much of Arthas Menethil after he pulled frostmorne.
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Luise deliberately plays the part of an old school villain. The overdone armor both protects her and hides her identity (well, in most cases).

Jessica is all too happy since this allows her to wage a fashion war against the current Abyss "traditional" trend of "skimpy villainess".

That the "skimpy" market is cornered by Izabela is just a bonus. (no, I ain't breaking my keyboard with all them apostrophes)
Salty said:
Gotta say though, that Wardes guy.

Every lady who ever falls in love with him ends up turning Evil.

So.

Avatar of a dark God, or just The Great Corruptor?
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My bet's on Incubus ancestry.

Scarron's bound to have a few tales ...
 
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Salty said:
Gotta say though, that Wardes guy.

Every lady who ever falls in love with him ends up turning Evil.

So.

Avatar of a dark God, or just The Great Corruptor?
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Harem protagonist with an F-rank in luck.

Also, I'd say that Louise should kill Wardes so no one else can fall for his charms, but that just means the next girl will take up necromancy.

Clearly, she needs to kill him, burn the body, and then claim his soul from the Abyss for safekeeping and also so she can torture him for all eternity for being an unfaithful cheating dog.

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ShadowEMT said:
Karin can now rest easy knowing that her daughters are not Evil, they are just possessed by an Evil Gauntlet, now she just needs to take their right hands and they will be fine.
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The right hand is the wrong hand. The gauntlet goes on the left, so that's the right hand.
 
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I'm confused at how losing the gauntlet turns off the tattoos. The tattoos first appeared before she got the gauntlet. I can only think that due to the number of familiars she has she needs the link to the tower heart to 'boost the signal' so to speak.
 
So, in other matters, what do people think will happen now? What does Eleanore do? Does she go back to The Dark Tower, regrouping so she can plan out what she wants and how she'll get it? If so, does she take Louise with her, imprisoning her there? Alternately, she could stay in Amstreldamme, and try to get control of the situation there - hide her Evilness, point out what Marzipan did, maybe even frame Louise for the rest of the damage. Basically get her reputation restored, declared 'innocent' (at least of what Marzipan accused her of) and get a grip on Amstreldamme. She also knows about Magdalene's cult, so maybe she takes control of that as well. She can either have Louise imprisoned in her own cell, or take her with her to wherever.
Meanwhile, we still have Jessica, Henrietta and Cattleya - what do they do? How aware are they of what happened? Do they try to rescue Louise (assuming Eleanore captures her)? How do they even get out of Hell?
Bahumat said:
I'm confused at how losing the gauntlet turns off the tattoos. The tattoos first appeared before she got the gauntlet. I can only think that due to the number of familiars she has she needs the link to the tower heart to 'boost the signal' so to speak.
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I can't be certain, but I'd posit that the tattoos appeared because she was the Overlady. When Gnarl touched her, that forged the Familiar bond, between the Minions of the Overlady and the Overlady. The Gauntlet was just an amplifier. However, when Eleanore finally put on The Gauntlet, Eleanore became the new Overlady. Thus, the bond between Minions and Overlady Louise was severed.
 
Personally I'm wondering if the other Valliere sister won't be jumping in. Standard operating procedures with sisters tend to be not gettting involved in the catfights between, but this is already a mess.
 
Changeofheart said:
And then we get overlady cat on top of everything else.
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Ah yes... what is going on with that... and then we find it is some shapeshifting dragon just for Dwarf fortress style of "FUN!"...

Yeah... least make this mess even worse...:facepalm:

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edit: I guess this will be like last boss in Overlord, with wizard who got possessed by previous Overlord....

A minion style Civil war, most minions going to Elanoire thanks to gauntlet influence, along with skin color change, but already named minions and few more stay with previous "Fun" Overlady, instead with new "Serious" one.
 
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Thinking on it, I figure that Louise is - to use D&D terms - Lawful Evil. Her motives center around legitimacy of the throne, she plays politics to get her enemies killed, etc.

Eleanore, now though, might be closer to Chaotic Evil. At the very least, she seems more interested in her own betterment compared to Louise being driven by her (now quite warped) ideals. Though, in a way it makes sense - Eleanore likes needling and humiliating others. She just had the good grace to do it to Evil targets when she was Good.

Or I could be completely off-target; its been known to happen. Whatever the case may be, I get the feeling Eleanore's flavor of Evil won't be as practical as Louise's.
 
Selonianth said:
Cattleya will be there shortly...
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Catt has been bloody well taking her time. I'm pretty sure I'll scream if it turns out she was maid hunting when this was going down.

Speaking of time, I can't see Eleanore's time as Overlady lasting long. Louise spent enough time without the Gauntlet and she's got more experience commanding Minions than Eleanore does. If anything, this'll end up like the mission in the first Overlord game where your supposedly dead predecessor turns out to not be dead and steals your shit before getting beaten. Only trouble I see is Guiche's party turning out forcing Louise to side with and then betray them to beat Eleanore, or them showing up after Louise beats Eleanore herself and catches her err red handed as it were.

Regardless, this isn't going to be a fun trip for Louise, and I'm pretty sure she's going to be hoping that Henriette can be persuaded to not move the capital to the city if only due to sheer amount of stressful memories and near deaths Louise has had there.
 
xeivous said:
Catt has been bloody well taking her time. I'm pretty sure I'll scream if it turns out she was maid hunting when this was going down.

Speaking of time, I can't see Eleanore's time as Overlady lasting long. Louise spent enough time without the Gauntlet and she's got more experience commanding Minions than Eleanore does. If anything, this'll end up like the mission in the first Overlord game where your supposedly dead predecessor turns out to not be dead and steals your shit before getting beaten. Only trouble I see is Guiche's party turning out forcing Louise to side with and then betray them to beat Eleanore, or them showing up after Louise beats Eleanore herself and catches her err red handed as it were.

Regardless, this isn't going to be a fun trip for Louise, and I'm pretty sure she's going to be hoping that Henriette can be persuaded to not move the capital to the city if only due to sheer amount of stressful memories and near deaths Louise has had there.
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... Re read the chapter. First she had to get hacked apart a bit, wrapped up, thrown through the portal, and then Henrietta needs to re-animate her, let her gorge on blood for a bit so Catt is re-energized, and THEN Catt can act.

But yes, I agree that Eleanore is definitely not going to have the gauntlet for long.
 
Selonianth said:
... Re read the chapter. First she had to get hacked apart a bit, wrapped up, thrown through the portal, and then Henrietta needs to re-animate her, let her gorge on blood for a bit so Catt is re-energized, and THEN Catt can act.

But yes, I agree that Eleanore is definitely not going to have the gauntlet for long.
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Louise set a trap for Baelogi, sprung said trap and had most of a boss fight with her before making conversation and then fighting with Eleanore before being beaten unconscious and possibly temporarily dead. Unless Catt was being more than uncooperative with her princess, it shouldn't have taken that long to get chucked through the portal and have found plenty of expendable and / or already deceased bloodbags to siphon. Though she could have just gotten lost on her way to Louise...
 
There is the possibility that Jessica could try to call Louise now. And get Eleanore instead. And then get subjected to a full Eleanore of mean.
 
Slayer Anderson said:
...that would require me to read more of Eleanore being Eleanore, which is borderline migraine-inducing for me.

The thing which infuriates me the most, and there are a lot of infuriating things about Eleanore in this incarnation, is that she's managed to fool herself into honestly believing she is being good, when she's turned all of her evil impulses into actively torturing her sisters. Louise, at least, is marginally self-aware about her paper-thin excuse of a 'plan.' Eleanore isn't even that, she's a complete cunt to virtually every single person in her entire life and she tells herself she's taking the more moral path of behavior.

I'm sorry if I'm being unnecessarily hyperbolic about all this, but pointless, unnecessary, cruelty is a hot button for me. It's just... objectively suboptimal, to borrow a phrase. Eleanore is using the excuse of acting in her sister's best interest to twist the knife and destroy her plans and goals in the most painful way possible for Louise... it rankles.
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Oddly enough, this makes Eleanore all the more sympathetic. Eleanore, alone of all the sisters, has felt the need to live up to her mother's reputation. She is the only one who has felt the pressure to continue doing the good deeds that comprised her mother's career up until Karin got pregnant. She is not only smart, and powerful, but she is also likely the only one of the three that has been exposed to the bitterness and the unhappiness that the family's conversion to Good has left the servants feeling. Simply put, the pressures on Eleanore, both from her family, from her kingdom, and from those around her, would have been enormous, and constant. It is little wonder that she has become bitter, and mean. It is little wonder that she has become somebody who is famous for hurting those around her. She has had cause. Growing up the way she did, and in the environment she did, would have left scars. Deep scars. VERY deep scars. It is a wonder that she has not begun to slide into Evil long ago, holding those who criticize and condemn her in contempt, and slowly believing them to be less and less than she is. That kind of reaction is VERY common, and in extreme cases, can lead to a person deciding that anybody who disagrees with them (or is just plain different) isn't just less intelligent, but is, in fact, somewhat less than human. There are probably studies out there to back this up, but from what I've been able to discover, a lot of history's greatest monsters started from something very like Eleanore's upbringing.

Think about Marzipan. She had nothing like the pressures Eleanore had to go through, and yet look at how she turned out--she was willing to sell her soul, and effectively destroy herself, just because Eleanore, who she'd known for at least a decade, made fun of her. By all accounts, Marzipan gave as good as she got, and was likely one of the few people Eleanore respected--she certainly did not respect her mother, I don't think. But Marzipan cracked under the strain. Eleanore, for all that she was nasty as any poison, did not. She still tried to be good. She still believed that being good was enough, that being a Hero meant that she was doing the Right thing.

One of the themes of this work is that, under enough pressure, any person will crack. Eleanore, between the concussion, the apparent betrayal by her sibling, her injuries, her being imprisoned by Marzipan, seeing Marzipan consumed by a demon, and various other stresses, has reached her breaking point. Whether she can be put back together again, or will be, or even should be is going to be one of those interesting questions.

EarthScorpion, I will say this, and I say this so very, very rarely: this is one of the best stories I've ever read, seen, or heard of. Your blend of the silly and the often serious is superb, reading your work has made me aware of several problems with my own writing. I hope that you can take the time, and soon, to file off the serial numbers from the material you stole, do all the necessary editing to complete this, and send this in for publishing, because it would be a shame to think that the rest of the world did not pay your work the honor it deserves.
 
Arcus2611 said:
A lot of people respect Karin for the same reason they respect a blade pressed to their neck--both of them can kill you in an instant if you make a wrong move.
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I'm pretty sue Karin is more of a Sword of Damocles type situation when one is outside her immediate range, yet still in Halkeginia. Knife to the neck is more of a situation for when one is in her actual presence and not yet killed to death. Though the latter will probably be the general feeling our various heroines will feel in the case of they ever meet up with Karin, even when not in Evil regalia.

Not sure if Louise could take that stress even if her Delusional Evil plan actually worked and she faked the death of the Overlady of the North in order to return home. I'm kinda doubtful that the eye glow is gonna go away permanently.
 
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